Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

pistol_75

I think Ray is going to have his hands full over the next few weeks considering some of the Pre-Taper madness going on already :rolleyes:

Anyone planning on doing over 26 for their LSR in the last few weeks?

chinguetti

Ray, can you imagine all the questions that we could aim at you before the real taper madness starts?

If i had the time, the fun i would have:D

We should warn them all about the taper madness though, in all seriousness:p

RayCun

chinguetti wrote: »

We should warn them all about the taper madness though, in all seriousness:p

if anyone wants a laugh, they could look at the October posts from last year's thread. That's warning enough

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

if anyone wants a laugh, they could look at the October posts from last year's thread. That's warning enough

It will appear that Ray was mentoring last year too!

Mr Slow

chinguetti wrote: »

Ray, can you imagine all the questions that we could aim at you before the real taper madness starts?

If i had the time, the fun i would have:D

We should warn them all about the taper madness though, in all seriousness:p

I don't think it exists! :rolleyes:

netmann

RayCun wrote: »

What does he say about the midweek pace?
Since the Intermediate plan in that spreadsheet says that 1 of the four runs should be a session, I would guess there are no sessions in the beginners' plan.

In general though, the midweek runs should be at the same pace as they've been all along. If you've always run one at PMP (or fartlek, or tempo...) keep it up. If you've been running at easy pace up to now, don't speed up because the distances are coming down.

She was in a running club and was coached all the way but didn't have any advise I recall about midweek runs. Thanks for the replies and sorry if the questions appear silly. I had been running midweek runs about 1 minute per mile faster than PMP. Any other comments on that plan for a novice?

BobMac104

Mr Slow wrote: »

It will appear that Ray was mentoring last year too!

its weird reading the two of ye worrying about doing 4 hours!

Mr Slow

BobMac104 wrote: »

its weird reading the two of ye worrying about doing 4 hours!

He did, I didn't! I was the greenest novice ever last year!

devilsad

I'm a first time marathon runner. I've been running for about a year and a half now and I'm running in the Dublin marathon at the end of the month. I have a training schedule which I've been sticking to and last weekend I ran approx. 17 miles. Next weekend will see me do approx. 18-19 miles followed by a 20 mile run the weekend after that.

My training schedule is a bit confusing. The week before the race is a 'cut back week' with the mid week runs being 2, 3 & 2 miles. But at the end of the cut back week it has a 10 mile run in the schedule. This would see me do a 10 mile run just two days before the marathon.

I'm tempted not to do that and just do another short run two days before the marathon.

Am I wrong or should I stick to the schedule?

Thanks!

Woddle

At first glance I would think you have two problems with the schedule.
A 20 miler 2 weeks beforehand is counter productive IMO and a 10 miler 2 days beforehand is crazy. I have no idea how many weeks you've been training though or what your weekly mileage has been.

gerard65

Thats not right. You would'nt do a 10 mile run 2 days before your marathon. Are you sure its not 10mins?
You'd really only do a 2 or 3 mile jog at that stage.

ecoli

devilsad wrote: »

I'm a first time marathon runner. I've been running for about a year and a half now and I'm running in the Dublin marathon at the end of the month. I have a training schedule which I've been sticking to and last weekend I ran approx. 17 miles. Next weekend will see me do approx. 18-19 miles followed by a 20 mile run the weekend after that.

My training schedule is a bit confusing. The week before the race is a 'cut back week' with the mid week runs being 2, 3 & 2 miles. But at the end of the cut back week it has a 10 mile run in the schedule. This would see me do a 10 mile run just two days before the marathon.

I'm tempted not to do that and just do another short run two days before the marathon.

Am I wrong or should I stick to the schedule?

Thanks!

Do you mind me asking what schedule you are using?

10 miles 2 days before is madness during your taper which usually lasts 2-3 weeks before race you should reduce volume slowly withot reducing intensity too much

Usually I would operate on the following:

3 Weeks Prior 80% of typical mileage
2 Weeks prior 60-70% of typical mileage
Week prior 40-50% of typical mileage

Rather than taking an extra day off here and there best approach is to spread the reduction out over each day so say you run 5 mile easy runs during the week run all 4 mile runs instead to reduce to 80% as well as your long run being reduced roughly same percentage though can afford to be more agressive reduction with these runs

devilsad

Thanks Woddle. Should I do my 20 mile this weekend so? That would efectively skip one long run. If I did the 20 miles this weekend, what distance should I do two weeks before and the one week before.

I've been running fairly constantly but started this schedule in June. As an example, last week I did approx. 17.5 miles during the week (over three sessions) and a 17 mile run last Sunday.

This week I had planned to do 19 miles throughout the week over three sessions and an 18 mile run on Sunday.

Followed by another 19 miles over three sessions and 20 miles on Sunday week.

Is this too much so close to the race?

I agree that 10 miles two days before seems strange to me, hence the question.

ThePiedPiper

Devilsad,

I'd try and get your last 20 miler done on Saturday 22nd at the latest. Then maybe a 10 miler the following Saturday or Sunday. Definitely do not do a 10 mile run 2 days before your first marathon. Tops, 4 o r 5 miles. There's no value to it. My best marathon came after I'd gotten injured and did 4 miles in the week coming up to the race. Less is more in this case.

You could possibly do a slow 20 miles this weekend (marathon pace plus at least 1 minute per mile) and another 20 next weekend with maybe 5 or 6 miles towards the end at race pace. Only do this session if you're feeling good. For a first time marathoner, it's much better to do your long runs very slow and not get your body overtired.

devilsad

ecoli wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what schedule you are using?

10 miles 2 days before is madness during your taper which usually lasts 2-3 weeks before race you should reduce volume slowly withot reducing intensity too much

I see a patern emerging! Thanks. I'm using a schedule from a book 'Run Your First Marathon' I can't remember the name of the author. I'll post it later when I get home.

devilsad

gerard65 wrote: »

Thats not right. You would'nt do a 10 mile run 2 days before your marathon. Are you sure its not 10mins?
You'd really only do a 2 or 3 mile jog at that stage.

Yes, I'm certain. All the figures are in miles. As I said, it seemed strange. I definately won't be doing 10 miles 2 days before now! Thanks.

devilsad

RunForestRun wrote: »

Devilsad,

I'd try and get your last 20 miler done on Saturday 22nd at the latest. Then maybe a 10 miler the following Saturday or Sunday. Definitely do not do a 10 mile run 2 days before your first marathon. Tops, 4 o r 5 miles. There's no value to it. My best marathon came after I'd gotten injured and did 4 miles in the week coming up to the race. Less is more in this case.

I was actually planning to do the 20 mile run on the 16th and then start to reduce the runs for the last two weeks. But that's what the schedule is saying. If I did 10 miles the Saturday after the 22nd, that would be two days before the marathon. Now I'm more confused.

Woddle

devilsad wrote: »

Thanks Woddle. Should I do my 20 mile this weekend so? That would efectively skip one long run. If I did the 20 miles this weekend, what distance should I do two weeks before and the one week before.

I've been running fairly constantly but started this schedule in June. As an example, last week I did approx. 17.5 miles during the week (over three sessions) and a 17 mile run last Sunday.

This week I had planned to do 19 miles throughout the week over three sessions and an 18 mile run on Sunday.

Followed by another 19 miles over three sessions and 20 miles on Sunday week.

Is this too much so close to the race?

I agree that 10 miles two days before seems strange to me, hence the question.

Again only my opinion but the work you've done isn't ideal. Would I be right in thinking that you don't have a time goal and are concentrating on finishing?

How did you feel after the 17?

If I was you I'd go out and do a slow 20 this weekend and this will be your most important run. The following week I'd do 15.
Pace is not important for these runs and be sure to practice your gels and water.

Woddle

RunForestRun wrote: »

Devilsad,

I'd try and get your last 20 miler done on Saturday 22nd at the latest. Then maybe a 10 miler the following Saturday or Sunday.

I would not agree with this the 20 miler would be too close to the marathon and you won't be fully recovered. And the 10 miler is again too close to marathon day.

devilsad

Woddle wrote: »

Again only my opinion but the work you've done isn't ideal. Would I be right in thinking that you don't have a time goal and are concentrating on finishing?

How did you feel after the 17?

If I was you I'd go out and do a slow 20 this weekend and this will be your most important run. The following week I'd do 15.
Pace is not important for these runs and be sure to practice your gels and water.

I run at a fairly constant 6 minutes per kilometre. I can't run faster than that as I run out of breath, but find that if I keep this pace I can keep going without much difficulty. I was tired after the 17 miles but was out the night before at my brother's 40th (Stupid I know but I've packed in the alcohol now until the race is over). But other than being tired I was fine. I agree that pace is not important, but as mentioned so far I've been able to keep a steady 6 minutes a kilometre without any problems. I did 26.8 kilometres on Sunday in 2 hours 38 minutes which is almost bang on 6 minutes a kilometre. I didn't speed up or slow down, just kept the same pace.

Sorry, if this sounds stupid, but what's 'practicing my gels'?

ecoli

Looking at the lay out of your training from what you have said my advice would be opt out of the 20 miler. You simply dont have enough mileage on a weekly basis to make this beneficial. While it may help you psycholoically a bit the risk of doing more harm than good to the body is too great

My advice for the next three weeks would be the following

Next Week starting 10th Oct
Tuesday 6 miles
Thursday 6 miles
Sunday 12 miles

Week starting 17th Oct
Tuesday 5 miles
Thursday 5 miles
Sunday 10 miles

Race Week starting 24th Oct
Tuesday 4 miles
Thursday 4 miles
Sunday 2 miles
Monday Race day

The Sunday run day before the race doesnt even have to be 2 miles it can be simply 10-15 min very easy running a hell of alot slower than your normal pace. This is just to get the blood flowing in the legs and can benefit you big time come race day. Remember the fitness should be there by now its just about letting the body recover and adapt to all the hard training you have put in since June from next week on

Woddle

devilsad wrote: »

Sorry, if this sounds stupid, but what's 'practicing my gels'?

Basically fuel for the body, it'll help you to avoid hitting the wall. 26.2 miles is a long way to go and it won't matter how much you load up on carbs your muscles can only hold a certain amount, this amount isn't enough to cover 26 miles which will lead you to hitting the wall or at the very least fatigued muscles.

Woddle

I'd agree with all of ecolis schedule apart from I'd still do the 20 miler this weekend and then follow ecolis advice till the marathon day.

devilsad

Woddle wrote: »

Basically fuel for the body, it'll help you to avoid hitting the wall. 26.2 miles is a long way to go and it won't matter how much you load up on carbs your muscles can only hold a certain amount, this amount isn't enough to cover 26 miles which will lead you to hitting the wall or at the very least fatigued muscles.

Great. Thanks. But what are 'gels'? Is it some sort of drink?

devilsad

ecoli wrote: »

Looking at the lay out of your training from what you have said my advice would be opt out of the 20 miler. You simply dont have enough mileage on a weekly basis to make this beneficial. While it may help you psycholoically a bit the risk of doing more harm than good to the body is too great

My advice for the next three weeks would be the following

Next Week starting 10th Oct
Tuesday 6 miles
Thursday 6 miles
Sunday 12 miles

Week starting 17th Oct
Tuesday 5 miles
Thursday 5 miles
Sunday 10 miles

Race Week starting 24th Oct
Tuesday 4 miles
Thursday 4 miles
Sunday 2 miles
Monday Race day

The Sunday run day before the race doesnt even have to be 2 miles it can be simply 10-15 min very easy running a hell of alot slower than your normal pace. This is just to get the blood flowing in the legs and can benefit you big time come race day. Remember the fitness should be there by now its just about letting the body recover and adapt to all the hard training you have put in since June from next week on

Thanks so much for that. And for this weekend? If you say I should opt out of the 20 miles, what distance should I do this weekend instead?

ecoli

devilsad wrote: »

Great. Thanks. But what are 'gels'? Is it some sort of drink?

This should give you a bit of info on gels might not be a bad idea to try out a few over next few weeks and see what ones agree with your stomach

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/reviews/nutrition/energy-gels/24.html

Woddle

devilsad wrote: »

Great. Thanks. But what are 'gels'? Is it some sort of drink?

more like goo
http://www.sub4.ie/product_info.php?products_id=99

devilsad

ecoli wrote: »

This should give you a bit of info on gels might not be a bad idea to try out a few over next few weeks and see what ones agree with your stomach

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/reviews/nutrition/energy-gels/24.html

That's brilliant. Thanks so much. Any idea where I'd get these in Dublin?

ecoli

devilsad wrote: »

That's brilliant. Thanks so much. Any idea where I'd get these in Dublin?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055486917&page=2

here is an old thread on them (and AFAIK there is a link to even older thread within it) Main ones would be Cycle superstore or the company which Woddle linked to but I am sure others will be able to advise you better on this

Woddle

devilsad wrote: »

Thanks so much for that. And for this weekend? If you say I should opt out of the 20 miles, what distance should I do this weekend instead?

ecoli wrote: »

While it may help you psychologically a bit the risk of doing more harm than good to the body is too great

I still think you should do the 20 for the reason above. Best of luck with it.