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Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

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    #1262
    elvis jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,197 ✭✭✭elvis jones


    RayCun wrote: »
    good plan. You could run it as a proper race rehearsal - wear the same gear that you will wear for the marathon and (as much as possible) follow the same routine as you will follow next month. Cut your toenails Tuesday, lay out all your clothes the day before, have your pasta the day before, the same breakfast you will have on the day, and so on.

    Great idea,

    Only hiccup is that i'm working until 3:30am:o the night before so i'll grab some extra sleep on the Saturday.


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    #1263
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    elvis jones wrote: »
    Great idea,

    Only hiccup is that i'm working until 3:30am:o the night before so i'll grab some extra sleep on the Saturday.

    It's a tough slog as a lap dancer! :D:pac:


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    #1264
    elvis jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,197 ✭✭✭elvis jones


    Mr Slow wrote: »
    It's a tough slog as a lap dancer! :D:pac:

    Ya shaving my ass for the thong is the worst part;)


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    #1265
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    elvis jones wrote: »
    Ya shaving my ass for the thong is the worst part;)

    Testify!!!:D


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    #1266
    maggiemissy
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭maggiemissy


    Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
    Vagga|4|22 Miles|263 miles| Easing back into things after 4 weeks out. Knee perfect now I think. CANT WAIT for the half now.|
    Nules10|4|39 |368.5|20 miles today and feel pretty good after it :)|
    liamog|||233.5 miles| |
    Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
    cr17|| |167 miles| |
    Househunter|||390 miles||
    Mr Abbey|||177miles||
    PDCAT|2 |21|232m|
    TomD101| | |200since 04/07||
    ShivDCM|||261m||
    BobMac104| | |270.05 ||
    red face dave|3|25|142|Had a good tough 10 mile hill session today|
    Younganne|1|5m|162.5m|only got 1 session in due to viral infection so hope to be back on schedule nxt week|
    rom|5|44 miles |320.63 miles|18m LSR in the wind and rain :( |
    TiptoeMushroom|| |199.5km since June 22nd. | |
    special1977| | |122| |
    mazken| 4| 32|220.8 miles|16m LSR, 1st time experimenting with gels (just took 1 at mile 12. Took it easy, enjoyed it and not at all stiff today - yay!|
    run44 (Aoife)|4|36 miles|402.5 miles since May|
    jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
    dylbert|||128.5||
    maggiemissy|||176 miles||
    specialk1977|||122| |
    maggiemissy|||205 miles||
    maggiemissy| 4| 32|237 miles|16m LSR, was glad to see the papal cross at the end but was delighted I achieved it, this was where I choked last year so happy days! Glutes still ache today though!||


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    #1267
    maggiemissy
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭maggiemissy


    Was thinking of buying a pair of compression shorts (skins, 2XU) as i'm suffering quite a bit with my glutes, usually kicks in (no putt intended!) around the 13/14 mile mark and is definitely affecting my form, just wondering if anyone had any experience with compression clothing, worth the expense or not


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    #1268
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    maggiemissy wrote: »
    Was thinking of buying a pair of compression shorts (skins, 2XU) as i'm suffering quite a bit with my glutes, usually kicks in (no putt intended!) around the 13/14 mile mark and is definitely affecting my form, just wondering if anyone had any experience with compression clothing, worth the expense or not

    Great for recovery but if this is your first time hitting high mileage it's to be expected. Another possibility is 'Paw Back' where your footfall is a little ahead of your centre of gravity and your hamstrings/glutes are being used more than they should be.

    Edit: Loosen up your glutes by sitting on a tennis ball and work it into the tight areas, if you're feeling hardcore - use a sliotar!


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    #1269
    macinalli
    Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭macinalli


    maggiemissy wrote: »
    Was thinking of buying a pair of compression shorts (skins, 2XU) as i'm suffering quite a bit with my glutes, usually kicks in (no putt intended!) around the 13/14 mile mark and is definitely affecting my form, just wondering if anyone had any experience with compression clothing, worth the expense or not

    If your glutes are suffering, then it may be that they're lazy - as in not doing their share of the work. Strengthening exercises are good for this - things like front & side plank, bridges etc will strengthen your glutes (and core). Its important for injury prevention - marathon miles aren't easy!


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    #1270
    maggiemissy
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭maggiemissy


    thanks guys, this is my first time hitting the high miles so i guess I should expect it, i'll try the tennis ball idea though and the strengthing, thankfully i'm in an office on my own!!!!!!


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    #1271
    snailsong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭snailsong


    Ray and all,
    I've following this thread and though I rarely post I''ve taken all the good advice on board. Thanks a lot.
    I jumped into HH novice 2 after Gaelforce west and completed all the sessions as per the plan for the last two weeks. 18 mile lsr in the wind and rain on Saturday, felt ok and maintained 5.35 or so per k throughout, a little under pressure for the last few miles and some aches but no real injury that I know of. I intend to run the Athlone three quarter and will try to do it at PMP, 5 min per k. Is this a good plan? Should I just stick with HH N2 and slot it in instead of that weeks lsr? Any advice appreciated.


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    #1272
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    3/4 marathon distance at PMP is too much, for something that is only a step on the way to your goal.
    The Athlone pacemakers are a little different from normal race pacers, because they run it as a training run for the Dublin marathon. The 3.30 pacers there don't aim to finish Athlone in 3.30, they run it at a pace that will suit those aiming for 3.30 in Dublin. So in Dublin you're aiming for 5 min/km - they'll run the first 10 at 5.30 pace, the next 10k at 5.14, and then the last 10k at almost marathon pace. details here

    That's a better plan than running the whole thing at PMP.


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    #1273
    snailsong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭snailsong


    Thanks, Ray, I shudda seen this. Never thought I'd run a 19.663 mile race with a target of 2:47:24:) Should I taper for this?


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    #1274
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    snailsong wrote: »
    Thanks, Ray, I shudda seen this. Never thought I'd run a 19.663 mile race with a target of 2:47:24:) Should I taper for this?

    Are your midweek runs Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday? Then you'll have two days rest before the race, that should be fine. Just don't do any PMP miles in midweek.


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    #1275
    shivDCM
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭shivDCM


    Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
    Vagga|4|22 Miles|263 miles| Easing back into things after 4 weeks out. Knee perfect now I think. CANT WAIT for the half now.|
    Nules10|4|39 |368.5|20 miles today and feel pretty good after it :)|
    liamog|||233.5 miles| |
    Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
    cr17|| |167 miles| |
    Househunter|||390 miles||
    Mr Abbey|||177miles||
    PDCAT|2 |21|232m|
    TomD101| | |200since 04/07||
    ShivDCM|3|18|279m|missed lsr. right food sore. didnt want to risk an injury|
    BobMac104| | |270.05 ||
    red face dave|3|25|142|Had a good tough 10 mile hill session today|
    Younganne|1|5m|162.5m|only got 1 session in due to viral infection so hope to be back on schedule nxt week|
    rom|5|44 miles |320.63 miles|18m LSR in the wind and rain :( |
    TiptoeMushroom|| |199.5km since June 22nd. | |
    special1977| | |122| |
    mazken| 4| 32|220.8 miles|16m LSR, 1st time experimenting with gels (just took 1 at mile 12. Took it easy, enjoyed it and not at all stiff today - yay!|
    run44 (Aoife)|4|36 miles|402.5 miles since May|
    jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
    dylbert|||128.5||
    maggiemissy|||176 miles||
    specialk1977|||122| |
    maggiemissy|||205 miles||
    maggiemissy| 4| 32|237 miles|16m LSR, was glad to see the papal cross at the end but was delighted I achieved it, this was where I choked last year so happy days! Glutes still ache today though!||


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    #1276
    househunter
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭househunter


    Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
    Vagga|4|22 Miles|263 miles| Easing back into things after 4 weeks out. Knee perfect now I think. CANT WAIT for the half now.|
    Nules10|4|39 |368.5|20 miles today and feel pretty good after it :)|
    liamog|||233.5 miles| |
    Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
    cr17|| |167 miles| |
    Househunter|5|52 miles|442 miles|Back into the swing of things after holiday and 2nd 20 miler complete :D|
    Mr Abbey|||177miles||
    PDCAT|2 |21|232m|
    TomD101| | |200since 04/07||
    ShivDCM|3|18|279m|missed lsr. right food sore. didnt want to risk an injury|
    BobMac104| | |270.05 ||
    red face dave|3|25|142|Had a good tough 10 mile hill session today|
    Younganne|1|5m|162.5m|only got 1 session in due to viral infection so hope to be back on schedule nxt week|
    rom|5|44 miles |320.63 miles|18m LSR in the wind and rain :( |
    TiptoeMushroom|| |199.5km since June 22nd. | |
    special1977| | |122| |
    mazken| 4| 32|220.8 miles|16m LSR, 1st time experimenting with gels (just took 1 at mile 12. Took it easy, enjoyed it and not at all stiff today - yay!|
    run44 (Aoife)|4|36 miles|402.5 miles since May|
    jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
    dylbert|||128.5||
    maggiemissy|||176 miles||
    specialk1977|||122| |
    maggiemissy|||205 miles||
    maggiemissy| 4| 32|237 miles|16m LSR, was glad to see the papal cross at the end but was delighted I achieved it, this was where I choked last year so happy days! Glutes still ache today though!||


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    #1277
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
    Vagga|4|22 Miles|263 miles| Easing back into things after 4 weeks out. Knee perfect now I think. CANT WAIT for the half now.|
    Nules10|4|39 |368.5|20 miles today and feel pretty good after it :)|
    liamog|0|0|233.5 miles|Still suffering with the foot, almost better will prob be back on the road by Thursday|
    Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
    cr17|| |167 miles| |
    Househunter|5|52 miles|442 miles|Back into the swing of things after holiday and 2nd 20 miler complete :D|
    Mr Abbey|||177miles||
    PDCAT|2 |21|232m|
    TomD101| | |200since 04/07||
    ShivDCM|3|18|279m|missed lsr. right food sore. didnt want to risk an injury|
    BobMac104| | |270.05 ||
    red face dave|3|25|142|Had a good tough 10 mile hill session today|
    Younganne|1|5m|162.5m|only got 1 session in due to viral infection so hope to be back on schedule nxt week|
    rom|5|44 miles |320.63 miles|18m LSR in the wind and rain :( |
    TiptoeMushroom|| |199.5km since June 22nd. | |
    special1977| | |122| |
    mazken| 4| 32|220.8 miles|16m LSR, 1st time experimenting with gels (just took 1 at mile 12. Took it easy, enjoyed it and not at all stiff today - yay!|
    run44 (Aoife)|4|36 miles|402.5 miles since May|
    jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
    dylbert|||128.5||
    maggiemissy|||176 miles||
    specialk1977|||122| |
    maggiemissy|||205 miles||
    maggiemissy| 4| 32|237 miles|16m LSR, was glad to see the papal cross at the end but was delighted I achieved it, this was where I choked last year so happy days! Glutes still ache today though!||


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    #1278
    KEV66
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭KEV66


    RayCun wrote: »
    72 sounds about right for the 10, based on your 5 mile time. If you make that time (and a good time in the half, if you're doing it) you could target a faster time in the marathon.

    Hi Ray, could do with a bit of advice. Have had a bit of a stop/start few weeks since 10mile in Park. Left Quad/Hip flexor were tight/sore. Missed a couple of LSRs and midweek runs. I don't think I should go all out this weekend, as I'm only starting to get back. Ran 5mls last night, felt oK. Aim for a couple of easy runs rest of wk.
    Was thinking of getting in with 1:40 group, but worried about putting too much stress on knee. Would I be better to treat as a training run & go out at ubout 8 min mls? Hope this makes sense. Cheers


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    #1279
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Yeah, the marathon is your real goal here, and if you've been having trouble with injuries recently there's no point in pushing things for the half marathon. If you're still thinking about a 3.45 marathon time, why not go out with the 1.50 pace group? That would be pretty close to a marathon pace run.


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    #1280
    KEV66
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭KEV66


    RayCun wrote: »
    Yeah, the marathon is your real goal here, and if you've been having trouble with injuries recently there's no point in pushing things for the half marathon. If you're still thinking about a 3.45 marathon time, why not go out with the 1.50 pace group? That would be pretty close to a marathon pace run.


    Yeah thanks. Might just do that. Prob do a few slow miles before, and after. Appreciate your help.


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    #1281
    mush500
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭mush500


    Hey guys just a quick question about the business end of the training now. Im following HH Inter I plan and my next few LSRs are 12M/20M/12M/20M and then taper. I'd planned to do the Half this weekend but can't because of a wedding and on top of that my LSR of 18M last weekend ended up being cut to 10M for a variety of reasons.

    Because of this I was going to enter the galway bay half on the 2nd of october but I'm now considering the athlone 3/4 instead. I'm aiming for sub 4.15 in DCM just wondering is three 20M LSRs too much in the last few weeks ?


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    #1282
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    mush500 wrote: »
    Hey guys just a quick question about the business end of the training now. Im following HH Inter I plan and my next few LSRs are 12M/20M/12M/20M and then taper. I'd planned to do the Half this weekend but can't because of a wedding and on top of that my LSR of 18M last weekend ended up being cut to 10M for a variety of reasons.

    Because of this I was going to enter the galway bay half on the 2nd of october but I'm now considering the athlone 3/4 instead. I'm aiming for sub 4.15 in DCM just wondering is three 20M LSRs too much in the last few weeks ?


    Yes. Given you are in the Novice mentoring thread I am guessing that this is you first marathon? 3x20 miles consectutively will tax your body to the point where you could cause yourself injury.

    Looking at the schedule what you could do is the following

    Week 12 (this week) Try get out for a Midweek long run if you can if you dont think you will get it in over the weekend (13 preferably)
    Week 13 2 x 12 miles runs at the weekend (Sat and sunday)
    Week 14 Race
    Week 15 2x15 mile runs

    This is not ideal as you are the race falls really badly in terms of the schedule for you however the split runs should give you similar effects aside from the mental benefit of having a few 20 milers under your belt.

    The other option is miss the race if you want solely focus on the marathon if you are worried about not having enough miles in the legs to complete the race.


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    #1283
    mush500
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭mush500


    Thanks ecoli ultimately I think I knew it'd be too much. Its actually my 2nd marathon- did canberra in april but still see myself as a novice. Ill have to think on it but think 2 runs @ 20M would be better for me psychologically as struggling a bit so might just skip it and do galway /normal run instead. Thanks for the option split run plan.


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    #1284
    TiptoeMushroom
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭TiptoeMushroom


    Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
    Vagga|4|22 Miles|263 miles| Easing back into things after 4 weeks out. Knee perfect now I think. CANT WAIT for the half now.|
    Nules10|4|39 |368.5|20 miles today and feel pretty good after it :)|
    liamog|0|0|233.5 miles|Still suffering with the foot, almost better will prob be back on the road by Thursday|
    Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
    cr17|| |167 miles| |
    Househunter|5|52 miles|442 miles|Back into the swing of things after holiday and 2nd 20 miler complete :D|
    Mr Abbey|||177miles||
    PDCAT|2 |21|232m|
    TomD101| | |200since 04/07||
    ShivDCM|3|18|279m|missed lsr. right food sore. didnt want to risk an injury|
    BobMac104| | |270.05 ||
    red face dave|3|25|142|Had a good tough 10 mile hill session today|
    Younganne|1|5m|162.5m|only got 1 session in due to viral infection so hope to be back on schedule nxt week|
    rom|5|44 miles |320.63 miles|18m LSR in the wind and rain :( |
    TiptoeMushroom|3|27km |226.5km since June 22nd. | Been working doubles this week as other manager is away on holidays. Have yet to even get out this week. Bring on the half! |
    special1977| | |122| |
    mazken| 4| 32|220.8 miles|16m LSR, 1st time experimenting with gels (just took 1 at mile 12. Took it easy, enjoyed it and not at all stiff today - yay!|
    run44 (Aoife)|4|36 miles|402.5 miles since May|
    jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
    dylbert|||128.5||
    maggiemissy|||176 miles||
    specialk1977|||122| |
    maggiemissy|||205 miles||
    maggiemissy| 4| 32|237 miles|16m LSR, was glad to see the papal cross at the end but was delighted I achieved it, this was where I choked last year so happy days! Glutes still ache today though!||


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    #1285
    alanking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭alanking


    Hi Folks

    only came across this thread today, would have loved to partake in it in the previous months.
    I'm running a couple of years, but only doing serious running since Oct last year. Decided to run the Marathon in May 2011 and am currently up to 18 mile LSR.

    I ran the 10m in 7:35 p/m pace and am aiming for similar for the half marathon.

    based on my success in this, I'll face a dilema on my marathon pace - currently I'm thinking of 8:30's but am worried that it will result in a 'sluggish' run and increase the pounding on my knees.

    I wont keep up with 7:30 pace for the full 26 and am not even anticipating running any distance at that pace, my aim is to finish my 1st marathon in Sub 4.

    Any advice for marathon pacing based on the above?

    thanks


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    #1286
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    If your main aim is to finish the marathon in sub4, then go out with the 4.00 pacers at 9 minute miles. That won't be the fastest marathon you can run, but on your first time out there's no harm in having a soft target. You'll learn a lot from the run, and next time (if there is one) you can choose a target that's closer to the limit of your capabilities.
    If that sounds a bit too easy, then go with the 3.45 group, at 8.30 pace.

    In the half marathon, you will not be able to maintain the same pace as in the 10 (unless you took the 10 very easy). You should expect to be at least 5 seconds a mile slower, and pace accordingly from the start.


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    #1287
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    RayCun wrote: »
    In the half marathon, you will not be able to maintain the same pace as in the 10 (unless you took the 10 very easy). You should expect to be at least 5 seconds a mile slower, and pace accordingly from the start.

    In fairness Ray, if he has only just started running he is probably constantly improving so should maybe be able to hold the faster pace for a bit longer.


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    #1288
    alanking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 51 ✭✭alanking


    thanks Ray, much appreciate the advice.

    Its great talking to people who know about running, having a community to share things with.
    If I was talking to non running friends about running 5-10 sec per mile slower, they'd think I was mad. But I know how difficult that it is to manage and how much 5-10 sec per mile can mean to the body.

    My overall aim is to finish the half in 1:40, but I'll be pushing for 2-3 mins faster 'just in case'!!

    For the marathon, I'll run with the 3:45 pacers.

    thanks for the advice.


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    #1289
    Mr Slow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    The Athlone 20 miler are providing pacers who will run 20 miles at MP for 3 hours, 3:30, 4 hours and 4:30. That may help you to guage what you're comfortable with and you'd have the benefit of doing it in a race environment.


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    #1290
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    menoscemo wrote: »
    In fairness Ray, if he has only just started running he is probably constantly improving so should maybe be able to hold the faster pace for a bit longer.

    Good point, but even so you've got to expect to slow a little. I was less than a year running last year too, and went from 8.06 in the Frank Duffy to 8.15 in the half - and I really felt those extra miles in the half. The last couple of miles were hilly though, in fairness.


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    #1291
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Mr Slow wrote: »
    The Athlone 20 miler are providing pacers who will run 20 miles at MP for 3 hours, 3:30, 4 hours and 4:30. That may help you to guage what you're comfortable with and you'd have the benefit of doing it in a race environment.

    no, they're running a progression run -
    10k at MP+10%, 10k @ MP+5%, and the last 10k at (almost) MP.
    http://athlone3quarter.com/faq.php


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