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Psychiatry is bogus

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    #92
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If a person says that a small horse told them to climb trees and sing Bohemian Rhapsody then they're considered 'schizophrenic' if a man says 'My imaginary king told me to devote my life to spreading his opinion' then he's respected as a priest or vicar or imam or rabbi.

    Wasadifference?

    Carl Sagan did a pretty bad ass write up on this very subject called "The Dragon In My Garage" ( a chapter from his book The Demon Haunted World). Well worth a read.


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    #93
    Buceph
    Registered Users Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    whiteonion wrote: »
    No, just plain idiocy.

    Yeah, everyone's an idiot but you, only you can see the light.

    Go start a ****ing cult, you evil man!

    Hopefully when you kill yourself to journey amongst the stars your followers will drop the kool-aid and think, "glad that prick is gone."


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    #94
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Buceph wrote: »
    Patient presents complaining of X, psychiatrist applies Y, X reduces. When this happens across a group of people on a statisically significant level it's known as science.


    Person presents complaining of having impure thoughts, priest applies prayer, impure thought reduces. When this happens across a group of people on a statistically significant level it's known as religion.

    FYP.


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    #95
    counterpointaud
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭counterpointaud


    IMHO the DSM is a load of ****.

    Not to belittle the work of Messrs Frued and Jung but the whole area of Psychotherapy has been corrupted to suit the capitalist model. Be very, very careful who you believe in this area, people have motive to hand out diagnoses which suit them, and it isn't just drug companies which stand to gain.

    That said, talking therapy does work for some, as do some drugs, YMMV.

    Just the diagnostic process sucks balls IMO. Get a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion if you can.


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    #96
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Buceph wrote: »
    You do realise the seminaries actually check for people with those disorders. Anyone saying they have actual conversations with god are referred to doctors.

    Also if you think schizophrenia is a case of being told to "climb trees and sing Bohemian Rhapsody" you're ****ing clueless.

    Again I challenge you to tell me exactly* what schizophrenia is - this is the second challenge I've presented you with - you've failed the first one and I'm pretty confident you will do no better on this one.

    *after all we can't study the nature of something unless we know what it is - that is science.


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    #97
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    This is fascinating, no matter your stance ..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu8nZyjiBJg


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    #98
    whiteonion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 837 ✭✭✭whiteonion


    Buceph wrote: »
    Yeah, everyone's an idiot but you, only you can see the light.

    Go start a ****ing cult, you evil man!

    Hopefully when you kill yourself to journey amongst the stars your followers will drop the kool-aid and think, "glad that prick is gone."

    I have a certain knack of being right about many things. My mother for example is prediabetic, she followed her doctor's bull**** advice that she should eat fruits and wholegrains, blablblabla. The results were predictable and she didn't get any better... her blood sugars were still high. I told her to go low carb, now her blood sugar is at a 3 month average of 4.8, her blood pressure is better and many other values are also better. My mum was better of following my advice than the advice of a so called educated professional. I have no respects for Doctors or Psychiatrists, a bunch of buffoons.


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    #99
    Kepti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Kepti


    Everyone attempting to discredit psychiatry has an agenda.

    "If it's impossible to classify a person as insane, then I cannot be insane."

    Someone doesn't want their onion peeled.


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    #100
    starviewadams
    Registered Users Posts: 6,116 ✭✭✭starviewadams


    whiteonion wrote: »
    Drugs are not the answers to your problems, do you have any idea what that stuff will do to your inner organs in the long run?

    Do you?honestly can't be any more damaging then what I would get up to during an episode of mania,(waking up in hospital with my wrists basicaly stitched back together,inviting vagrants and everybody in between back to my parents house in the middle of the night etc,spending crazy money on stupid stuff without realisng)

    Funnily enough once I started taking my 'harmful' meds prescribed by 'bogus' doctors all these things stopped!


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    #101
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    starviewadams wrote: »
    Do you?honestly can't be any more damaging then what I would get up to during an episode of mania,(waking up in hospital with my wrists basicaly stitched back together,inviting vagrants and everybody in between back to my parents house in the middle of the night etc,spending crazy money on stupid stuff without realisng)

    Funnily enough once I started taking my 'harmful' meds prescribed by 'bogus' doctors all these things stopped!

    Remember, they don't want to hear that you got help from treatments as they largely don't believe there was anything wrong with you in the first place.

    Just a heads up on your audience.


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    #102
    Kepti
    Closed Accounts Posts: 426 ✭✭Kepti


    whiteonion wrote: »
    I have a certain knack of being right about many things. My mother for example is prediabetic, she followed her doctor's bull**** advice that she should eat fruits and wholegrains, blablblabla. The results were predictable and she didn't get any better... her blood sugars were still high. I told her to go low carb, now her blood sugar is at a 3 month average of 4.8, her blood pressure is better and many other values are also better. My mum was better of following my advice than the advice of a so called educated professional. I have no respects for Doctors or Psychiatrists, a bunch of buffoons.

    Why did she even bother to consult a doctor? Surely, her first impulse would be to ask the genius son who emerged from her womb?


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    #103
    whiteonion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 837 ✭✭✭whiteonion


    starviewadams wrote: »
    Do you?honestly can't be any more damaging then what I would get up to during an episode of mania,(waking up in hospital with my wrists basicaly stitched back together,inviting vagrants and everybody in between back to my parents house in the middle of the night etc,spending crazy money on stupid stuff without realisng)

    Funnily enough once I started taking my 'harmful' meds prescribed by 'bogus' doctors all these things stopped!

    It sounds more like you have been high on some sort of stimulant, lika cocaine, ecstasy or possibly crystal meth


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    #104
    Buceph
    Registered Users Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Again I challenge you to tell me exactly* what schizophrenia is - this is the second challenge I've presented you with - you've failed the first one and I'm pretty confident you will do no better on this one.

    *after all we can't study the nature of something unless we know what it is - that is science.

    First off, you asserted that schizophrenia doesn't exist because some people see a difference between someone hearing voices and a religious person hearing god. I told you why even churches rarely make that distinction. And so your assertion was false.

    Secondly, you're the one proposing something running contrary to science, you should prove your point. Especially as you seem to take the views of some religious people (who are not noted as being the most scientific of people) as proof of your claim. Something I easily refuted.

    Finally, I can't give an exact definition of schizophrenia, I am not a psychiatrist. And you still have given me no reason to doubt the information I do know.


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    #105
    WalterMitty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭WalterMitty


    I dont get why people just cant accept that just because there is no medical test for mental illnesses that they dont exist and cause suffering to individuals. Brains are made of cells and use chemicals to communicate. We know cells can be dysfunctional throughout the body so why not in the brain?


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    #106
    Buceph
    Registered Users Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    whiteonion wrote: »
    It sounds more like you have been high on some sort of stimulant, lika cocaine, ecstasy or possibly crystal meth

    Genius! Why didn't anyone else think of that. The guy suffering form manic depression was on cocaine. And when he stopped taking the cocaine he wasn't taking in the first place, he came down.


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    #107
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    This is fascinating, no matter your stance ..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu8nZyjiBJg

    Interesting indeed


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    #108
    Buceph
    Registered Users Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    To the people denying the reliability of psychiatry...

    Have you been diagnosed with a psychiatric illness. Or has someone with the knowledge to make an educated guess hypothesised that you could or do suffer from a psychiatric condition?


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    #109
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Buceph wrote: »
    some religious people (who are not noted as being the most scientific of people)
    .

    :confused:


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    #110
    whiteonion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 837 ✭✭✭whiteonion


    Buceph wrote: »
    To the people denying the reliability of psychiatry...

    Have you been diagnosed with a psychiatric illness. Or has someone with the knowledge to make an educated guess hypothesised that you could or do suffer from a psychiatric condition?

    I avoid psychiatry like the plague so no.


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    #111
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    whiteonion wrote: »
    I avoid psychiatry like the plague so no.

    lol


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    #112
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Buceph wrote: »
    To the people denying the reliability of psychiatry...

    Have you been diagnosed with a psychiatric illness. Or has someone with the knowledge to make an educated guess hypothesised that you could or do suffer from a psychiatric condition?

    I like low insurance premiums and job offers, so no. You don't know where that information could end up. We live in an age of distributed databases now. Lawful Information handling is only applicable when you know, the data isn't mishandled. No one is perfect.


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    #113
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    starviewadams wrote: »
    Do you?honestly can't be any more damaging then what I would get up to during an episode of mania,(waking up in hospital with my wrists basicaly stitched back together,inviting vagrants and everybody in between back to my parents house in the middle of the night etc,spending crazy money on stupid stuff without realisng)

    Funnily enough once I started taking my 'harmful' meds prescribed by 'bogus' doctors all these things stopped!

    Have you ever considered the placebo effect? Not saying that is the case, but I doubt the drugs were correcting a measurable quantity.


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    #114
    Plautus
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Plautus


    I think you vastly over-estimate your expertise whiteonion - seeing as you've already told someone who received psychiatric treatment that it was cocaine or crystal meth that caused their problems: and you don't even know the person!

    Psychiatry is a discipline that is itself critical of the DSM and is aware of its own cognitive pitfalls (ho-ho). It isn't a hive-mind, it's open to and subject to robust criticism and many psychiatrists do believe there's been over-prescription.

    None of these is an argument against the medicines or the practice of psychiatry. And none of it is a reason to believe Tom Cruise is talking sense!

    And Naikon: not all drugs are the same and while placebo effect might be in competition with medication amongst the SSRI class in the likes of mild depression (important qualification there) there are many others with clearly demonstrable clinical outcomes. Anti-psychotics, sedatives etc.

    And as for the poster earlier asking for the 'proof' - scientific enquiry proceeds inductively. You start with a hypothesis and then make observation. There's little 'proof' at the start of anything. You find out. Trial and error ...


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    #115
    WalterMitty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭WalterMitty


    Naikon wrote: »
    Have you ever considered the placebo effect? Not saying that is the case, but I doubt the drugs were correcting a measurable quantity.
    How would you biologically measure happiness in a person who claims to be happy?


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    #116
    Saila
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭Saila


    Naikon wrote: »
    Have you ever considered the placebo effect? Not saying that is the case, but I doubt the drugs were correcting a measurable quantity.

    turn out the lights in your room and dont move, when you do that a big rock will appear in the room and disappear when you turn the light back on, you know thats nonsense right? but yet you cant prove it isnt there when you turn the lights off can you!


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    #117
    whiteonion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 837 ✭✭✭whiteonion


    Plautus wrote: »
    I think you vastly over-estimate your expertise whiteonion - seeing as you've already told someone who received psychiatric treatment that it was cocaine or crystal meth that caused their problems: and you don't even know the person!

    Psychiatry is a discipline that is itself critical of the DSM and is aware of its own cognitive pitfalls (ho-ho). It isn't a hive-mind, it's open to and subject to robust criticism and many psychiatrists do believe there's been over-prescription.

    None of these is an argument against the medicines or the practice of psychiatry. And none of it is a reason to believe Tom Cruise is talking sense!

    I said it sounded like the behavior of someone high on these kind of drugs.


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    #118
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    WalterMitty wrote: »
    How would you biologically measure happiness in a person who claims to be happy?

    The very concept of "happiness" is entirely subjective and does not have any grounding in science.


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    #119
    Buceph
    Registered Users Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭Buceph


    Naikon wrote: »
    The very concept of "happiness" is entirely subjective and does not have any grounding in science.

    Are you saying people can't be happy or sad?


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    #120
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    Saila wrote: »
    turn out the lights in your room and dont move, when you do that a big rock will appear in the room and disappear when you turn the light back on, you know thats nonsense right? but yet you cant prove it isnt there when you turn the lights off can you!

    Evidence of absence.


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    #121
    Plautus
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Plautus


    whiteonion wrote: »
    I said it sounded like the behavior of someone high on these kind of drugs.

    Sure, but you're making the implication to suit your own ends and that is highly inappropriate and even insulting to the poster who shared his or her story. The behaviour described can occur in people who have not consumed any such substances.


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