Driving in Charlesland

Jimjay

loobylou wrote: »

Rules of the Road, March 2007, page 100, quote,
To avoid doubt and in the interest of road safety a vehicle should always yield to pedestrians.

Interesting you didn't quote the rest of the page. What you are referring to is the rules of turning at a junction or roundabout.

As I said above if a car is turning at a junction or roundabout on to a new road then any pedestrians crossing the road have right of way. It in no way says what you are referring.

If anyone wants to check this the link is
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/pdf-downloads/english/rules-of-the-road%20eng.pdf

Check around page 100 section 9 'rules of junctions and roundabouts'. It referrs to who has the right of way at junctions. A very specific section and somewhere cars have already stopped at a yield sign or slowed to an almost stop, not a suprise stop in the middle of a road.

loobylou

As I clearly stated in my earlier post pedestrians have a duty to be responsible.
There is however a heavier onus on the driver though, that is why he is tested/licensed to operate a motorcar.
Traffic should always yield to pedestrians, that is simply common sense. Would you run over somebody purely because you think you have "right of way"? Of course you would'nt. If you did the courts would not be long about telling you that people have rights at places other than junctions.
None of this though takes from my original point which was to actually support your argument. I would suggest that these are NOT controlled crossings but are being treated as such by some pedestrians and some drivers.
What I would like to see is clarity being brought by the relevant authorities in the interest of everyones safety.

Jimjay

loobylou wrote: »

As I clearly stated in my earlier post pedestrians have a duty to be responsible.
There is however a heavier onus on the driver though, that is why he is tested/licensed to operate a motorcar.
Traffic should always yield to pedestrians, that is simply common sense. Would you run over somebody purely because you think you have "right of way"? Of course you would'nt. If you did the courts would not be long about telling you that people have rights at places other than junctions.
None of this though takes from my original point which was to actually support your argument. I would suggest that these are NOT controlled crossings but are being treated as such by some pedestrians and some drivers.
What I would like to see is clarity being brought by the relevant authorities in the interest of everyones safety.

Ok I don't mean to come across as an ass and want to offend no one. Of course you would stop and hopefully be driving slow enough to stop if someone ran out onto the road in front of you, that doesn't mean they had the right of way to do it in the first place.
The main problem, as someone stated in an earlier post is that the rules are there to be followed and if a rule is not correct or should be changed then it needs changing. You cannot have half the people using one rule book and the rest using another, this is what makes roads unsafe.

LEIN

Guys i understand that this pedestrians argument is important but i also have to say its not a local argument and for that reason i feel it belongs to the motors forum.
I believe there are many good folk over there that will have a very high knowledge on that very subject.

The other stuff on the dodgy driving is ok as i too see some fools.

I always stick to 30KPH in the estate as killing a child or anyone is not something i could live with and that could easily happen as there are always cars parked at the duplexes.
All it will take is for a young child to come flying out from between them heading for the green and its game over.
I have been overtaken had cars nearly touching the back of mine while flashing beeping and waving their hands at me frantically as to say move your car you fool.
Looking at the bigger picture, how long are these guys being help up for? Not even 10 seconds is my reckoning!

Home 10 Seconds quicker or a child's life? You decide.

matt-dublin

cavemeister wrote: »

I have seen shocking driving too.. I am in the Crescent overlooking to green and see all manner of @rseholes flaking it up the avenue in their modified Jap cars... Some of these guys even have the mufflers taken off their cars and to be honest, I have heard quieter ryanair planes!!

there should be a gatso van in Charlesland

it sounds like everyone is talking about

«snip»

an absolutly appalling driver

matt-dublin

i knocked someone down years ago, he was found to be at fault and had to pay for the repairs to my car (he wasn't injured badly)

its case by case.

and yes, its too dangerous to stop at the first ramp because visability with the fencing there isn't great as your coming off the road from jackie skelly.

i personally don't think they're official pedestrian crosssing, i would only consider them speed ramps. I would generally not stop going over them and i wouldn't expect a car to stop for me either.

matt-dublin

Last edited by Johnnymcg; Today at 23:02.

no naming and shaming?

Annasopra

matt-dublin - its against the forum charter to potentially identify a person by giving details of their vehicle. Please familiarize yourself with the charter.

Chocolate fiend

What about the people who have no idea how to use their indicators? People who turn off the main roundabout to go towards Superquinn without indicating at all on the roundabout, makes it pretty hard for pedestrians when you have to read people's minds about where they are going!

hamstervision

Chocolate fiend wrote: »

What about the people who have no idea how to use their indicators? People who turn off the main roundabout to go towards Superquinn without indicating at all on the roundabout, makes it pretty hard for pedestrians when you have to read people's minds about where they are going!

People not knowing how to indicate on roundabouts came top of a recent poll on Irish drivers' pet-hates. And, for some reason, because we're in an estate people seem to make less of an effort.

While we're talking about roundabouts, I've lost count of how many drivers I've seen going into the left lane when entering the estate only to end up exiting the roundabout in Charlesland on the far side of the spine road (the Wood/Court side). This is an accident waiting to happen.

hamstervision

matt-dublin wrote: »

i personally don't think they're official pedestrian crosssing, i would only consider them speed ramps. I would generally not stop going over them and i wouldn't expect a car to stop for me either.

Official or not, they have the pedestrian warning signs on them and the solid (or solid before the paint faded) white lines on them for pedestrians to cross in. Personally, I would rather err on the side of caution.

Anyway, I didn't intend for the thread to devolve into an argument over whether or not they're actually pedestrian crossings (though it has highlighted some need to clarify what should be done in order to gain some consistency). I think people both sides of the argument are in agreement that if someone was already crossing the ramp/not-a-crossing they would stop. I've seen people driving over the ramp with a pedestrian on it because they hadn't quite made it across to that side of the ramp yet.

The reason I started the thread was to highlight the stupid things some drivers are doing in the estate. I'm not sure what can be done about it but I'm worried that someone is going to get hurt before the issue is really addressed.

LEIN

hamstervision wrote: »

While we're talking about roundabouts, I've lost count of how many drivers I've seen going into the left lane when entering the estate only to end up exiting the roundabout in Charlesland on the far side of the spine road (the Wood/Court side). This is an accident waiting to happen.

I live in the Court and always use the right lane unless hitting Superquinn or the other side. I have had clowns come around the out side in the left lane blasting at me and calling me names for nearly hitting them! How did these people pass a driving test because what lane you should be in on a roundabout should be just pure common sense.

hamstervision

Damo9090 wrote: »

How did these people pass a driving test because what lane you should be in on a roundabout should be just pure common sense.

There probably wasn't a roundabout with 2 lanes on their test route, so it didn't matter. We're only tested on a short route for about 30 minutes and then we're told we're allowed to drive. No training on proper use of a Motorway, including what lanes we should be using (like Jimjay was saying earlier - one of my serious pet hates too), you're just not allowed on, you show you can drive a given route, do a few tricks like reversing around a corner and all of a sudden, you're allowed to drive everywhere.

I also find if I'm coming out of Charlesland going right (towards the N11), and therefore in the right-hand lane, I often have people entering the roundabout in the left lane from the next exit (coming from Greystones) before I've had the chance to turn off into the left lane at my exit. If they get too close they force me into the overtaking/right-hand lane.

matt-dublin

hamstervision wrote: »

There probably wasn't a roundabout with 2 lanes on their test route, so it didn't matter. We're only tested on a short route for about 30 minutes and then we're told we're allowed to drive. No training on proper use of a Motorway, including what lanes we should be using (like Jimjay was saying earlier - one of my serious pet hates too), you're just not allowed on, you show you can drive a given route, do a few tricks like reversing around a corner and all of a sudden, you're allowed to drive everywhere.

I also find if I'm coming out of Charlesland going right (towards the N11), and therefore in the right-hand lane, I often have people entering the roundabout in the left lane from the next exit (coming from Greystones) before I've had the chance to turn off into the left lane at my exit. If they get too close they force me into the overtaking/right-hand lane.

when you're coming off the roundabout from charlesland towards the n11 you should come off onto the inside lane, not the left one.

The whole point of a roundabout is to ensure continual flow of traffic, drivers coming from greystones to the roudabout should be able to continue straight on the outside lane while a driver from charlesland is on the roundabout on the inside lane

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html

hamstervision

matt-dublin wrote: »

when you're coming off the roundabout from charlesland towards the n11 you should come off onto the inside lane, not the left one.

The whole point of a roundabout is to ensure continual flow of traffic, drivers coming from greystones to the roudabout should be able to continue straight on the outside lane while a driver from charlesland is on the roundabout on the inside lane

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html

You may be correct, but where exactly does it say that on the page? I was never told that (possibly another example of how badly we're taught to drive in this country), I was always just told to yield right of way to vehicles already on the roundabout/vehicles coming from the right. The only place I see anything indicating which lane may be used when exiting the roundabout is this image that's linked to from the page you posted:



As you can see, the car turning right has its choice of lanes, indicated by the split arrow.

matt-dublin

yes, the car does have choice of lanes, where the left lane is free, both are right but only when there is available space in the left lane.

loobylou

matt-dublin wrote: »

when you're coming off the roundabout from charlesland towards the n11 you should come off onto the inside lane, not the left one.

The whole point of a roundabout is to ensure continual flow of traffic, drivers coming from greystones to the roudabout should be able to continue straight on the outside lane while a driver from charlesland is on the roundabout on the inside lane

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html

This is not correct. When exiting a roundabout one should normally exit into the left lane.
However turning into Charlesland would be one of the (rare) exceptions to this as you are almost immediately faced by a second multilane roundabout. If you are taking an exit after 12 o'clock on this (Superquinn) roundabout it would be safer to exit the first roundabout into the right hand lane.
Btw these roundabout threads go on forever in the Motors section.

Langerland

Funny how these discussions occur regularly over a number of years. I recall having the exact same discussion with somebody on here three o so years ago..."how to use a roundabout!"

The one thing I am amazed at is how few accidents there have actually been given peoples obvious misunderstanding of the rules of the road! Glad to see they have actually drawn helpful arrows on the road down at the swimming pool roundabout to help people who don't understand. Yet you still see people down at that junction, approaching it in the left lane....seeing the arrows......and then turning right!!!:eek:

matt-dublin

if this is the case lobyloo and someone is pulling onto the outside liane of a roundabout while you are on the inside and you are side by side and taking the same exit, you're telling me you should push into the outside lane??

i think not. you should be exiting off the same lane you entered.

the only case where this differs is where you have single lane exits.

loobylou

As I said, this has been done to death on the Motors section. I'm not going to go into it on the Greystones thread, except where its specific to Greystones. Otherwise the mods will simply close it down.

Charlie-Bravo

Matt, seriously...do you drive onto a roundabout with traffic coming from your right? You always give way to traffic from the right. You cannot jump onto a roundabout with traffic coming from the right and then expect you can all leave on the same exit. How's your maths? 2 into 1 doesn't go!!! That's why you yeild - hence the yeild sign!!!

Loobylou - totally agree with 12 o'clock rule for lanes and for indicating too! Nobody should ever indicate while in the left lane approaching a roundabout - they are immediately doing something wrong! (unless roadmarkings say otherwise!)

Jimjay

astrofluff wrote: »

Matt, seriously...do you drive onto a roundabout with traffic coming from your right? You always give way to traffic from the right. You cannot jump onto a roundabout with traffic coming from the right and then expect you can all leave on the same exit. How's your maths? 2 into 1 doesn't go!!! That's why you yeild - hence the yeild sign!!!

Loobylou - totally agree with 12 o'clock rule for lanes and for indicating too! Nobody should ever indicate while in the left lane approaching a roundabout - they are immediately doing something wrong! (unless roadmarkings say otherwise!)

If you are in the left lAne and turning left you should indicate. That way a car waiting to come on to the roandabout from your left should see you are turning off before them and should be able to enter the roundabout. If you are in the left lane and going straight on you should not indicate your exit until you have passed the exit before the one you are coming off at.

As said by matt, roundabouts were desinged so that if used correctly a near continuas flow of traffic can enter and leave the roundabot. If a car enters the roundabout to your right from the outside lane then that car is going straight on or right, they should also leave by the same lane so you should be able to enter the roundabout in the left lane and turn left to the inside lane without any problem. Unfortunatly not everyone knows how ro use roundabouts so this doea not always worl but it is how it should work.

matt-dublin

astrofluff, if the roundabout has two lanes yes i would that is the whole point of it, as long as it loks safe to enter then you should enter.

if a person is indicating to come off from the inside lane to the exit after then one you're entering you would wait until they're passed.

Charlie-Bravo

Jimjay wrote: »

If you are in the left lAne and turning left you should indicate....

thanks Jimjay - that left turn is a given, I should fully construct my sentences!!!... "Nobody should ever indicate with a right turning indicator while in the left lane approaching a roundabout...."

matt-dublin

astrofluff wrote: »

thanks Jimjay - that left turn is a given, I should fully construct my sentences!!!... "Nobody should ever indicate with a right turning indicator while in the left lane approaching a roundabout...."

dont forget though, you're in wicklow, where people with WW regs a notorious for not knowing how to use roundabouts!

we all love the person who stays in the left lane and goes all the way around!!

Charlie-Bravo

hee hee...what was this thread about again? Personally I avoid the

<snip>

Edited to remove stuff that might identify someone as per the forum charter

matt-dublin

astrofluff wrote: »

hee hee...what was this thread about again? Personally I avoid the

Never too early for IBTL.

I HATE ............. SHOOT THE F*CKERS


Edited to remove stuff that might identify someone as per the forum charter

Annasopra

Hi Folks

A reminder of what the forum charter says

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Charlieville

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

Agreed.

And when I am driving, I am hesitant to stop at the first crossing when I am entering the estate from the roundabout, because it is so close to the roundabout that it could require a sudden stop, and if there is any amount of traffic behind it could cause a dangerous situation on the roundabout.

I don't mind stopping at the second crossing, or at either one on the outbound side.

Yeah I agree - the first bump is too close to the roundabout to be stopping - in the evenings if there is a stream of cars turning in, you could cause a mash-up...:eek:

matt-dublin

It was only a generalization, there was no direct relation to anyone in those posts.

Micras and Wicklow drivers tend o be pretty poor drivers which is a fact, Put a Wicklow driver in a micro and you get hell.