Driving in Charlesland

hamstervision

Hi all,

I usually get the DART to work so don't do much driving around the estate. But between the few times I do drive and observations made as a pedestrian, I have seen some seriously stupid driving.

Yesterday I was coming out onto the main green from Charlesland Wood and could see 2 cars driving parallel to each other on the far side of the green. At first I thought to myself "I didn't think that was a dual-carriageway..." No, it was someone overtaking. Inside the estate. Seriously. And the first car didn't seem to be going that slowly.

Last month, for two weeks in a row trying to come out onto the main green I had to stop suddenly to avoid the modified sports-car driving down my side of the green doing at least 80km/h. With all of the cars parked outside the duplexes there, it would be so easy for a kid (or fully grown adult) to walk out and get hit.

A few weeks before that I saw a learner driver come into the the estate, and was turning left into Superquinn. Apparently they were doing this too slowly because, just as they were entering the roundabout, someone changed lanes, sped up and, from the right-hand-lane, swerved left, cutting off the poor learner driver and taking the exit for Superquinn.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen drivers not stopping for people (often with prams and/or toddlers) trying to cross at the pedestrian crossings at the entrance to the estate, and when I stop for people they often look shocked.

Are we in that much of a rush? It's an estate, not Mondello Park. I know there was a thread about speed-bumps recently, but speed-bumps just slow people down for short bursts. The problem seems to be people's mentality and it's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt.

Earlsie

hamstervision wrote: »

pedestrian crossings at the entrance to the estate,

I always stop at these crossings but are they actually completed crossings, are they missing Pedestrian lights,Pelican crossing ,Special signals or something !!If you where entering the estate for the 1st time they look like speed reduction ramps or maybe I have missed some signage.

On this point I often have people walking out in front of me outside the Burnaby Pub as well (not drunk), from what I remember there is some adjacent metal bollards either side of the road but no zebra crossing or signal lights.Accident waiting to happen here.

mikedragon32

Earlsie wrote: »

I always stop at these crossings but are they actually completed crossings, are they missing Pedestrian lights,Pelican crossing ,Special signals or something !!If you where entering the estate for the 1st time they look like speed reduction ramps or maybe I have missed some signage.

There are signs at those ramps to indicate that they are pedestrian crossings. What's more I've seen some serious muppetry including one clown who accelerated rather than allow pedestrians cross and bottomed out his little sh1tty rice rocket in the process.

I agree with the OP, there is certainly a number of idiots who think the spine road is a drag strip rather than a means to access residential areas.

ciaran67

hamstervision wrote: »

Hi all,

I usually get the DART to work so don't do much driving around the estate. But between the few times I do drive and observations made as a pedestrian, I have seen some seriously stupid driving.

Yesterday I was coming out onto the main green from Charlesland Wood and could see 2 cars driving parallel to each other on the far side of the green. At first I thought to myself "I didn't think that was a dual-carriageway..." No, it was someone overtaking. Inside the estate. Seriously. And the first car didn't seem to be going that slowly.

Last month, for two weeks in a row trying to come out onto the main green I had to stop suddenly to avoid the modified sports-car driving down my side of the green doing at least 80km/h. With all of the cars parked outside the duplexes there, it would be so easy for a kid (or fully grown adult) to walk out and get hit.

A few weeks before that I saw a learner driver come into the the estate, and was turning left into Superquinn. Apparently they were doing this too slowly because, just as they were entering the roundabout, someone changed lanes, sped up and, from the right-hand-lane, swerved left, cutting off the poor learner driver and taking the exit for Superquinn.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen drivers not stopping for people (often with prams and/or toddlers) trying to cross at the pedestrian crossings at the entrance to the estate, and when I stop for people they often look shocked.

Are we in that much of a rush? It's an estate, not Mondello Park. I know there was a thread about speed-bumps recently, but speed-bumps just slow people down for short bursts. The problem seems to be people's mentality and it's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt.

Not to mention the Airport Bus parking in front of the main crossing as you enter the estate so you can see if someone is crossing.

cavemeister

I have seen shocking driving too.. I am in the Crescent overlooking to green and see all manner of @rseholes flaking it up the avenue in their modified Jap cars... Some of these guys even have the mufflers taken off their cars and to be honest, I have heard quieter ryanair planes!!

there should be a gatso van in Charlesland

Rasmus

Too right Hamstervision. I almost got run over the other day outside Charlesland Court. I shudder to think about less conspicuous shapes that may be crossing roads, like kids or animals. That spine road going down Charlesland is more perilous than the one outside the estate.

Also so true what is mentioned above. Spine road - access road or drag strip?? Some people.

Jimjay

Where does it say the ramps are Pedestrian crossings? As far as i know the sign on the road say look left or look right, which would mean look out for cars not cross at will. I hate it when cars stop for me, most of the time it is that quiet it would be easier for the car to pass then i can walk over. I am sure cars only have to stop at official crossings with correct signage and road markings. I think the bumbs are just there as a place to cross and not a place to expect cars to stop for you.

I saw someone almost get run over for stepping out infront of a car at the bump on the high street just down from burnaby. He then gave verbal abuse to the driver who was not speeding, telling him it is a crossing and he should have stopped, the driver gave Some back saying it is just a speed bump.

LEIN

Jimjay wrote: »

Where does it say the ramps are Pedestrian crossings? As far as i know the sign on the road say look left or look right, which would mean look out for cars not cross at will. I hate it when cars stop for me, most of the time it is that quiet it would be easier for the car to pass then i can walk over. I am sure cars only have to stop at official crossings with correct signage and road markings. I think the bumbs are just there as a place to cross and not a place to expect cars to stop for you.

I generally stop there but it is not a pedestrian crossing.


pedestrian crossing.



What we have minus the lights.


There seems to be an unwritten rule that people stop as if it were a pedrestian crossing.

The first time i drove into Charlesland i was met by an old lady swinging her bag at my car pointing down to the look left marking. (She missed thankfully)

Charlie-Bravo

It's this sign you'll see at the table top crossings - this one the jury will be out for decision as its not clear if you should or shouldn't stop. What makes it worse is that the road has two lanes so you have to watch all cars coming off the roundabout to slip by the one letting you cross.

I regularly use the crossing with kids in tow. I like the fact that some do stop and some don't, meaning I can teach the kids that some people are patient and courteous while the others are d!cks. Never trust anyone before stepping out until they've stopped, given you the nod, and the big false smile. :pac:

mikedragon32

The sign Astro has is the one that accompanies the crossings and it is a warning sign rather than a regulatory one, which renders the them as pedestrian crossings and not just a hand place to cross the road.

As it's a warning sign rather than a statutory one means the driver doesn't HAVE to stop but must be aware of pedestrians crossing and give way if they're already crossing. A bit like the warning sign for an unguarded level crossing. What driver won't stop for a train?

Re the speed ramps on the road between the station and P&R, that's all they are. There are no markings on them nor are they signposted as such.

JanneG

What's even scarier is that I've seen people driving around the "Superquinn roundabout" the wrong way... :eek:

cuddlycavies

Yesterday as I pulled into our turnoff. A small child was crawling across the road. I drive slowly. It's really only a matter of time folks!

darsar

Pedestrian crossings have white stripes running parallel with the road. What we have is simply triangular road markings highlighting two large speed bumps.

I'd rather a car didn't stop for me because I can usually cross the road as soon as it goes by.

MyPerfectCousin

darsar wrote: »

I'd rather a car didn't stop for me because I can usually cross the road as soon as it goes by.

Agreed.

And when I am driving, I am hesitant to stop at the first crossing when I am entering the estate from the roundabout, because it is so close to the roundabout that it could require a sudden stop, and if there is any amount of traffic behind it could cause a dangerous situation on the roundabout.

I don't mind stopping at the second crossing, or at either one on the outbound side.

Jimjay

astrofluff wrote: »

I regularly use the crossing with kids in tow. I like the fact that some do stop and some don't, meaning I can teach the kids that some people are patient and courteous while the others are d!cks. Never trust anyone before stepping out until they've stopped, given you the nod, and the big false smile. :pac:

I guess I am a d!ck then. A bit unfair really.
When I am driving I would rather not stop as it could be dangerous. What if I stop, the person crosses and a car comes down the other lane and doesn't stop? After all it's not a crossing.
When I am walking I would rather be patient and wait for time to cross, I have to do this crossing roads where ever I am so why is this different.

When walking across some people are patient waiting for the car to pass then cross courteously while others ar d!cks.

mikedragon32

Jimjay, it IS a crossing. At least slow down enough to take a look at the road signs and the marking on the road.

Re not stopping at the first crossing in case it causes a collision, that's really the worry for the driver behind you if he's left insufficient space to react to your actions.

hamstervision

I don't know. Personally, I think that what may appear as people waiting patiently might actually just have given up on people actually stopping. I don't see a legitimate reason not to stop.

The argument that it might be dangerous to stop suddenly? You're driving into an estate so I don't see why you'd be driving so fast that stopping would be dangerous. There's a bush blocking the view to the right at the first ramp so I'm always wary of a small child, dog, cat, etc. I'd much rather go slowly or wait for someone than run the risk of someone walking out in front of me.

I guess I just feel that, in an estate, the pedestrians should have right-of-way.

Again, are we in that much of a rush?

Jimjay

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Jimjay, it IS a crossing. At least slow down enough to take a look at the road signs and the marking on the road.

Re not stopping at the first crossing in case it causes a collision, that's really the worry for the driver behind you if he's left insufficient space to react to your actions.

I disagree, however that really is not important and I will be checking the highway code to check official crossings to make sure I am not wrong. Btw I don't drive fast enough around the estate to need to slow down but thanks for the advise and I will certainly have a good look for he signs next time a walk past.

The road is so quite at most times so waiting for one car to go past before crossing is hardly a hardship. Why are the people crossing in such a rush?

mikedragon32

Enjoy your walk.

hamstervision

Jimjay wrote: »

Why are the people crossing in such a rush?

You're right, driving through the estate would be so much easier of it wasn't for those darned pedestrians. They should just keep the hell out of your way. After all, what's a little hit & run amongst neighbours?

Jimjay

hamstervision wrote: »

You're right, driving through the estate would be so much easier of it wasn't for those darned pedestrians. They should just keep the hell out of your way. After all, what's a little hit & run amongst neighbours?

Yeah that's exactly what I meant!?!?

I drive slowly around the estate and get very annoyed seeing cars speed dangerously around. Some people have a blatant disrespect for pedestrians.

I am a pedestrian in the estate more than a driver.

I don't like it when cars stop at the bump to let me cross. Whats the point when I can wait a couple of seconds for the car to pass and then cross.

I dont see why I should stop at the bump when there is no one behind me and a pedestrian can cross at their own leisure after I have passed.

I don't see why anyone has such high opinions on this bump. If a car wants to stop for me when I am crossing the road so be it, if they don't then I wait for a safe gap I don call them a d!ck or wave my fist at them or complain about it.

hamstervision

Jimjay wrote: »

I dont see why I should stop at the bump when there is no one behind me and a pedestrian can cross at their own leisure after I have passed.

Common courtesy?

Jimjay

hamstervision wrote: »

Common courtesy?

Ok so common courtesy only works one way?
When I am in such a rush walking to super Quinn why should I expect everyone to stop for me? If I am walking I have the common courtesy of waiting for a car to pass before I cross the road.

I obviously disagree with everyone here so as a common courtesy and not wanting to offend anyone, I really am not a bad person, I won't bother posting on this subject any further.

hamstervision

I just honestly think that, in a residential estate, we should stop for pedestrians. Call it courtesy, call it being cautious, call it whatever, but I really don't see why pedestrians shouldn't have right-of-way, not only at the not-a-pedestrian-crossing. As you said, the roads are seldom busy so it's not like you'd be holding up traffic by stopping.

I'll get down off my soap-box now.

MyPerfectCousin

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Re not stopping at the first crossing in case it causes a collision, that's really the worry for the driver behind you if he's left insufficient space to react to your actions.

LOL. I'm supposed to feel secure knowing that if someone's driving dangerously behind me it's their problem?

THe only reason I feel this way is because of the speed at which so many drivers take that turn into the estate, and because of the number of drivers who fail to keep sufficient space between them and the vehicle in front of them.

MyPerfectCousin

hamstervision wrote: »

Common courtesy?

Common courtesy is great and all, but it will kill someone eventually.

Too many drivers stop for someone (or some vehicle) who doesn't have the right of way to pass, with no thought for other drivers on the road who should not be expecting that vehicle to stop in that situation.

Maybe pedestrians do have the right of way at those crossings; unfortunately this thread hasn't really come to a conclusion on that. If they do, then everyone should know so everyone can expect the same behaviour every time at that point in the road. If they don't, then they don't. The inconsistency is a problem.

mikedragon32

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

LOL. I'm supposed to feel secure knowing that if someone's driving dangerously behind me it's their problem?

THe only reason I feel this way is because of the speed at which so many drivers take that turn into the estate, and because of the number of drivers who fail to keep sufficient space between them and the vehicle in front of them.

No, but it sems to me that you care more about someone damaging your car than hitting a pedestrian.

MyPerfectCousin

mikedragon32 wrote: »

No, but it sems to me that you care more about someone damaging your car than hitting a pedestrian.

Where do you get that? I care about about a car slamming into me and me slamming into a pedestrian. I care about all the cars that get annoyed at me driving slowly safely and zoom around me in this estate, without thinking about what's in front of the car in front of them.

loobylou

Vehicles should always yield to pedestrians, its in the Rules of the Road..
However pedestrians also have some responsibility in this area, thats why children are thought to stop,listen,look both ways before stepping onto a road. Pedestrians at an official crossing will tend to be less aware of traffic and do fewer observations, they tend to feel safer and presume that drivers are paying more attention.
The problem here is that there are a number of new type "crossings" popping up in Greystones and also Kilcoole. They are not "official" as per the ROTR, eg zebra,pelican or pedestrian crossings. Drivers are not giving them the same care and attention as they would a normal crossing, but some pedestrians are treating them almost like a zebra crossing and are not paying due care either.
This is an accident waiting to happen. The council must come out and clearly mark the status of these "crossings" before somebody is seriously hurt or even killed. Unfortunately, and I hope I'm wrong, this will probably have to happen before anything gets done.

Jimjay

loobylou wrote: »

Vehicles should always yield to pedestrians, its in the Rules of the Road..
.

I know I said I wouldn't post again but hey.
Where on earth did you get your rule book?
I was brought up as a pedestrian to respect cars and that pedestrians yield to cars. There are some very crazy misconceptions about driving in this country, maybe due to the recent lack of driving lesson structure that everyone has enjoyed.

If a car turns on to a road where someone is crossing then yes the pedestrian who is crossing has the right of way. And the carvshould yield or slow enough for the person to cross.
A person who is at an official zebra crossing has tonput a foot on the road before a car has to stop for them 'officially' yes rule of thumb here is that out of common courtesy cars stop for people whether they have a foot on the road or not.

The amont of accidents that I see due to a car stopping uneccpectantly on a main road to allow a pedetrian to cross is very high.

Just to emphasise driving knowledge or lack of...
I cannot believe that most people I speak to think a second lane on a motor way or duel carriage way is a 'fast lane'. It amazes me the amount of people that pull on to an almost empty motorway go straight to the outside lane because they are driving at the speed limit and not slow enough to drive in the 'slow' lane. They then caurse near accidents, or daily accidents on the n11/n50 by refusing to pull over to allow someone past or by the people behind undertaking. I see this every single day. for those who don't know, the inside lane is the driving lane, the other lanes are overtaking lanes, they should be used when overtaking other cars.

What I am saying is that some people need to pick that rule book up and have a long hard read.

loobylou

Jimjay wrote: »

I know I said I wouldn't post again but hey.
Where on earth did you get your rule book?


What I am saying is that some people need to pick that rule book up and have a long hard read.

Rules of the Road, March 2007, page 100, quote,
To avoid doubt and in the interest of road safety a vehicle should always yield to pedestrians.