Gardai searching all houses for the queen

CaseyRyback

You'll probably find this is not being done on overtime but is it an effective use of resources?

Parsi is correct when he states the police do not have access to the census from a legal standpoint, however State security services will have access to certain information.

In the UK there has been much speculation re the Census information remaining private, especially as regards national security issues or court orders, but then the UK legislation has been significantly watered down.

I would suggest what I posted was correct, from a cynics point of view.

P_1

CaseyRyback wrote: »

You'll probably find this is not being done on overtime but is it an effective use of resources?

Parsi is correct when he states the police do not have access to the census from a legal standpoint, however State security services will have access to certain information.

In the UK there has been much speculation re the Census information remaining private, especially as regards national security issues or court orders, but then the UK legislation has been significantly watered down.

I would suggest what I posted was correct, from a cynics point of view.

The cynic in me would lead me to agree with you, purely to keep my head below the parapet of course

goldie fish

CaseyRyback wrote: »

No? Are you sure?

The only people who have access to to RAW census data are the CSO staff in Swords.
What comes out in public is pure statistics, with regional breakdowns only, and no individual details.

parsi

CaseyRyback wrote: »

No? Are you sure?

Yes. I am.

CaseyRyback

parsi wrote: »

Yes. I am.

Thanks Des. Appreciate your input.

parsi

You're welcome Steven.

CaseyRyback

parsi wrote: »

You're welcome Steven.

Not wishing to be a pedant, but I spell it Stephen. Thanks Des.

Shield

Knock it off you pair.

Buceph

syklops wrote: »

Garda:"Of the 42 houses, three refused to search and told me I needed a warrant. This seemed unusual to me and piqued my suspicions, can I have a warrant to search each"
Judge:"Sure you can!"

This is a reason why some people have little respect for the Gardai. A couple of the Gardai or their supporters seem to believe that people going about their rightful daily business is unusual.

Shield

Buceph wrote: »

This is a reason why some people have little respect for the Gardai. A couple of the Gardai or their supporters seem to believe that people going about their rightful daily business is unusual.

Well that belief is, but judges don't give out warrants without a reason. A refusal to let a Garda enter your house is not a good enough reason, legally speaking, to either apply for a warrant or have a warrant granted.

Buceph

psni wrote: »

Well that belief is, but judges don't give out warrants without a reason. A refusal to let a Garda enter your house is not a good enough reason, legally speaking, to either apply for a warrant or have a warrant granted.

I understand that.

I was referring to someone saying, "Well they'd just get a warrant because they think you're dodgy" when no rational person could think it's dodgy. A lot of people feel they've been dehumanised when dealing with the police.

MagicSean

CaseyRyback wrote: »

I have to question the thinking behind this exercise. Though I have nothing to hide, and appreciate only too well the job of those involved in such security operations, I too would be asking the police to go and obtain a warrant and would openly state that I fail to see how my views on such a visit are relevant to any security operation.

Likewise, the police have access to the census data if they wish to know who is residing at a given address. This whole exercise smacks of a fishing trip.

I would not cooperate quite simply as Billy RIRA isn't going to answer the door to AGS and isn't going to be caught out with such probing questions as: "Do you like the Queen?"

Great attitude. Flawless reasoning. :rolleyes:

stop

Some poor chap in the water unit had the unlucky job of being dropped down half the manholes in Dame St yesterday before being hosed off, not fun!

CaseyRyback

k_mac wrote: »

Great attitude. Flawless reasoning. :rolleyes:

If I want to search someone's address I need considerable information/intelligence, whatever you want to call it, so as to stand any chance of securing a warrant at court.

Bunreacht na hÉireann declares that the dwelling of a citizen is inviolable and shall not be entered forcibly except in accordance with the law. This means that no one, including the Gardai, may enter the place where you live without a warrant or other legal authority to enter. The right to inviolability of dwelling is set down in Article 40.5 of the Constitution


If its an inconvenience to you that I value my rights and enjoy my privacy then too bad. There is a mechanism in place, should the security services wish to enter my home, that will facilitate such an entry where there is a legitimate reason. I am not a terrorist, nor am I criminal. I am not obliged to evidence this by permitting voluntary house searches. This isn't 1984.

hmmm

This is a difficult one obviously. Just because someone refuses entry to their dwelling should not mean they are automatically "under suspicion", so I would be very disappointed if this was the outcome. On the other hand, there is a practical reality to consider.

I had a note under my door from AGS when I returned home during the week, so I presume this is what this was about. If they return and want to look around, it will make a big difference if they ask to enter or demand access. The former I'd allow, the latter I'd refuse.

IRLConor

They didn't want to search mine. They just wanted to ask a few innocuous questions. If you get a card slipped under your door, just call them back. I think it was less than a 5 minute phone call for me.

Perhaps they're searching some of the higher-risk places and maybe they'll come back to me closer to the time but from my experience they're not asking for access to everywhere (never mind demanding!).

Contra Proferentem

I have to say I'm shocked at the logic (or more the lack of logic) which the "nothing to hide" brigade seem to follow. Like it or not, it's an important issue and the whole area of privacy is something which is slowly being eroded in both the commercial and legal reality, so it's about time people insisted on using their rights. Like most things, it's a case of use it or lose it.

As was pointed out, those who surrender their freedom for in the name of temporary safety deserve neither freedom or safety.

I don't want a complete stranger looking through my house due to a state visit that I frankly don't care about either way. I wouldn't mind the fact that if a Garda saw Item X and that was the end of it, but the fact is that if it's the locals, then Item X is going to be talked about down in the local station over the shift's snackbox.

I dread to think what those who have the Proclamation of the Republic in there homes will have to explain to those searching or why they should even have to do so. In the family home there's one of the 1966 commemorative editions of the Proclamation, but I imagine something like that would attract unwarranted suspicion due to the acts of dissident republicans if the house was along the route.

In most cases I'd co-operate with the Gardai, but it depends on the situation and how the members approach it. This just seems excessive, poorly thought out overkill. I expect that closer to the visits it'll look like something of a police state from Orwell's timeless works.

Dyr

They pulled the same stroke for don tidey and shergar..got a shedload of warrants signed so they could have a nosey through as many houses as possible. Judges will probably do the same this time around.

usernamegoes

For those that believe that if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about, I would like to ask what other rights you would feel you would rather give up because you have nothing to hide?

Would you allow a listening device in your home that can be listened to at as the Queen passed by?

How about random searches all year round to make sure you are in compliance with all laws? If you're not breaking the law what's the problem?

What if the police found something in your home during the search that you didn't know what against the law, perhaps blasphemous.

Any other rights you don't want?

MagicSean

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

I have to say I'm shocked at the logic (or more the lack of logic) which the "nothing to hide" brigade seem to follow. Like it or not, it's an important issue and the whole area of privacy is something which is slowly being eroded in both the commercial and legal reality, so it's about time people insisted on using their rights. Like most things, it's a case of use it or lose it.

As was pointed out, those who surrender their freedom for in the name of temporary safety deserve neither freedom or safety.

I don't want a complete stranger looking through my house due to a state visit that I frankly don't care about either way. I wouldn't mind the fact that if a Garda saw Item X and that was the end of it, but the fact is that if it's the locals, then Item X is going to be talked about down in the local station over the shift's snackbox.

I dread to think what those who have the Proclamation of the Republic in there homes will have to explain to those searching or why they should even have to do so. In the family home there's one of the 1966 commemorative editions of the Proclamation, but I imagine something like that would attract unwarranted suspicion due to the acts of dissident republicans if the house was along the route.

In most cases I'd co-operate with the Gardai, but it depends on the situation and how the members approach it. This just seems excessive, poorly thought out overkill. I expect that closer to the visits it'll look like something of a police state from Orwell's timeless works.

How is anyone surrendering freedom? They have a choice in the matter. They have the freedom to cooperate and assist the Gardaí in the work in the same way that you have the freedom not to.

Mr. Presentable

OP, where's your house? I got any itchy finger :pac: Let us know when they've finished their search.....

usernamegoes

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

How is anyone surrendering freedom? They have a choice in the matter. They have the freedom to cooperate and assist the Gardaí in the work in the same way that you have the freedom not to.

I agree that it is an entirely optional thing. Those who wish to permit a search should do so. I don't think it's fair to castigate those who don't as being somehow paranoid or overly protective. I also don't think that if a person refuses the search that should be cause to allow the State to gain a warrant per se.

MagicSean

usernamegoes wrote: »

I agree that it is an entirely optional thing. Those who wish to permit a search should do so. I don't think it's fair to castigate those who don't as being somehow paranoid or overly protective. I also don't think that if a person refuses the search that should be cause to allow the State to gain a warrant per se.

i agree. But similarly people who do decide to cooperate shouldnt have to listen to the likes of Contra Proferentemsaying they are letting the country down by not exercising their rights. The whole point of a personal right is that it is optional wether you exercise it. People should not be forced to exercise a right just because someone else would.

Grudaire

I wonder are they going to drive the queen past any houses they've had suspicions of, purely to have an excuse to do a search!?

"Now your Majesty, this area is known as 'Finglashire'," :pac:

pa990

Gardai searching all houses for the queen

have they found Lizzy Windsor yet ?

Eru

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

those who surrender their freedom for in the name of temporary safety deserve neither freedom or safety.

Misquoting someone who died 200 years ago doesn't do your argument much good.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." That is not the same as what is being argued here.

Thoie

My neighbourhood is one of those that has been visited over the last few weeks. No mention was made of a search, though the gardaí did manage to get me, and a number of my neighbours out of bed. Which was probably more of a shock to them than us - though at least they're now sure I wasn't concealing anything. I answered the questions at the time (half asleep), I understand they were just doing their job. "Will you be at home while the British Queen/American President passes?" was a bit of a stumper. They couldn't tell me when that would happen, and I couldn't answer without knowing when.

I'd be pretty unenthused about having my home searched without warning. I don't even let my friends in without tidying up and would prefer the opportunity to put away the laundry on the clothes horse, file away my private papers. I'm uncomfortable with strangers looking around my house. I live my life in accordance with the laws and implement security measures precisely so that there's no reason for strangers to wander in. I'd like to say no if someone asks if they can search my home.

Sadly, if someone surprises me with the question "May we come in?" my automatic reaction is to say "Sure" before it's registered. So my only hope is to not answer the door until the whole thing has blown over.

who the fug

celtictiger32 wrote: »

FACT: if a member of an garda siochana is not wearing his/her hat as per uniform, the specific garda will have a colder head. fact:D

What if he is bald and it be summer

goldie fish

who the fug wrote: »

What if he is bald and it be summer

If you put an envelope inside the crown of the cap it will keep your head cool.....

Resend

syklops wrote: »

Garda;"Would it be ok if we search your house prior to the Queens arrival?"
You:"yeah, no bother"
Garda:"Good, we will be in touch"

Garda crosses off name.

---

Garda;"Would it be ok if we search your house prior to the Queens arrival?"
You: :eek: "No chance! Besides you need a warrant before you come invading my privacy!"
Garda:"Fair enough"
Garda ticks box next to "Has something to hide".

Garda:"Of the 42 houses, three refused to search and told me I needed a warrant. This seemed unusual to me and piqued my suspicions, can I have a warrant to search each"
Judge:"Sure you can!"

rubbish
i have nothing to hide and would not let a cop inside my door without a warrant