Gardai searching all houses for the queen

knick_knack

Hi all, I was at home the other day when a knock on the door revealed a uniformed gardai who was looking for a list of the people living in the house. This is because the queen's route "may" be passing this way and so everyone needs to be cleared. Now I don't really have a problem with this, but she then informed me that closer to the time several gardai would be coming down to search the house for explosives. Apparently every house, along possible routes, will be searched and inspected.

Now I have nothing to hide, however I think this is a pretty big invasion of privacy. I'm not planning on having her over for tea and scones after all.
The amount this visit is costing aside (though my own personal view is that a private visit means its nothing to do with the gardai and nothing to do with me and so they should have to pay/cover at least some of the cost).

Oh I was just informed that she'll also most likely be travelling by helicopter too which means its even more unlikely that she'll be taking any of the several roads that they are searching.

So do they gardai need a search warrent or not to enter my premises?

Finally the gardai who showed up was not wearing a hat? Is it within my rights to refuse entry if they are not wearing full uniform. Not saying I would since I don't want them taking a dislike to us but would be handy to know.

Thanks for your comments guys.

gbee

knick_knack wrote: »

Finally the gardai who showed up was not wearing a hat? Is it within my rights to refuse entry if they are not wearing full uniform. Not saying I would since I don't want them taking a dislike to us but would be handy to know.

Thanks for your comments guys.

I bet you never expected to have your house turned over? Not wearing the hat is being polite in this case.

naoise80

Suppose the house next door to you decided to let off a bomb as she was passing.

Would you be happy that their house wasn't searched beforehand?

belacqua_

They need to get on the blower to the Met, I know for a fact she's hiding out in a little place off Spur Rd.

moomooman

Thats a disgrace. I'd happily cause a fuss over that.

Shes welcome to visit anytime she likes but having the Gardai come in and turn over your house is insane or at least would be in a republic like the USA, here it seems anything goes.

Let her take her Helicopter, dog knows she can afford to.

stimpson

To answer the OP's question, they need a warrant to search your house without your consent. You can, of course, consent to a search but you are under no obligation to do so and are protected under section 40 of the constitution.

Kells...

No I live beside Croke Park and they can fcuk off.I dont bloody care if the Queen is coming.

seamus

knick_knack wrote: »

So do they gardai need a search warrent or not to enter my premises?

Yes they do. But if they ask and you let them in, they don't.

You can refuse, but they'll probably find some way to justify getting a warrant to come in and search your premises if you do.

Easy life, you've nothing to hide, so why make a fuss over letting the Gardai in to look around? It's not like they're going to be rifling through your underwear.

I don't understand this extremist protection of privacy. No, they shouldn't be allowed to turn up at will and fire through your house, but when they have a valid reason just let them got on with their job and stop getting upset over nothing FFS.

The same people who'll be obstructing the Gardai on this and wasting their time are the same ones who'll foam at the mouth about wasting money and resources.

timmywex

knick_knack wrote: »

Finally the gardai who showed up was not wearing a hat? Is it within my rights to refuse entry if they are not wearing full uniform.

I love ridiculous rumours!! :cool:

stimpson

seamus wrote: »

I don't understand this extremist protection of privacy. No, they shouldn't be allowed to turn up at will and fire through your house, but when they have a valid reason just let them got on with their job and stop getting upset over nothing FFS.

If they have a valid reason then they can get a warrant. That is the whole point. If you are not under suspicion you have a constitutional right to the privacy of your own home. Just because Mrs Saxe-Coburg-Gotha is coming to tea doesn't mean you should have your rights trampled on.

The same people who'll be obstructing the Gardai on this and wasting their time are the same ones who'll foam at the mouth about wasting money and resources.

I fail to see how getting Gardai to follow procedure is obstruction.

Delancey

OP - the Queens visit is an official / state visit - it is not a private visit.

Wudyaquit

timmywex wrote: »

I love ridiculous rumours!! :cool:

What's ridiculous about that? I heard the guards have a massive book of evidence on Wayne Dundon, but keep having to let him go because the guard looking after the case doesn't like wearing hats. True story.

seamus

stimpson wrote: »

If they have a valid reason then they can get a warrant. That is the whole point. If you are not under suspicion you have a constitutional right to the privacy of your own home.

Of course you do. But any decent person with an ounce of common sense would just let them get on with it rather than stamping their feet and blathering on about constitutional rights when there's no need to.

It's a reasonable request from a Garda. A reasonable person would let them just get on with it.

stimpson

seamus wrote: »

Of course you do. But any decent person with an ounce of common sense would just let them get on with it rather than stamping their feet and blathering on about constitutional rights when there's no need to.

Yeah, if people want to exercise their constitutional rights then the terrorists have already won. :rolleyes:

source

It is the state that gives the power to the Garda, not the uniform, Gardai have the exact same power out of uniform as they do when in full uniform.

As for the poster who mentioned the US, Have you seen what they do when they move their own president around? It's a lot more invasive than a local police coming around for a look. Up to and including welding manhole covers shut. Oh and my favourite, telling people not to come to work that day.....no reason given just don't be here when the president is.

syklops

stimpson wrote: »

If they have a valid reason then they can get a warrant. That is the whole point. If you are not under suspicion you have a constitutional right to the privacy of your own home. Just because Mrs Saxe-Coburg-Gotha is coming to tea doesn't mean you should have your rights trampled on.

Garda;"Would it be ok if we search your house prior to the Queens arrival?"
You:"yeah, no bother"
Garda:"Good, we will be in touch"

Garda crosses off name.

---

Garda;"Would it be ok if we search your house prior to the Queens arrival?"
You: :eek: "No chance! Besides you need a warrant before you come invading my privacy!"
Garda:"Fair enough"
Garda ticks box next to "Has something to hide".

Garda:"Of the 42 houses, three refused to search and told me I needed a warrant. This seemed unusual to me and piqued my suspicions, can I have a warrant to search each"
Judge:"Sure you can!"

fey2010

Wudyaquit wrote: »

What's ridiculous about that? I heard the guards have a massive book of evidence on Wayne Dundon, but keep having to let him go because the guard looking after the case doesn't like wearing hats. True story.

Do you really believe that?

Paddysnapper

Wudyaquit wrote: »

What's ridiculous about that? I heard the guards have a massive book of evidence on Wayne Dundon, but keep having to let him go because the guard looking after the case doesn't like wearing hats. True story.

I heard that as well:rolleyes:

meathstevie

Wudyaquit wrote: »

What's ridiculous about that? I heard the guards have a massive book of evidence on Wayne Dundon, but keep having to let him go because the guard looking after the case doesn't like wearing hats. True story.

A Garda is a Garda, even in a pair of waiders and a pink tutu and the word uniform generally refers to clothing making a Garda readily identifiable as being a Garda. Such clothing could be riot gear, bike leathers and high viz jacket for Traffic Corps, etc etc

angelfire9

If the dubs think this is bad wait til the secret service really get going in Moneygall!!!

starviewadams

Unless you have something to hide why not just let them have a quick look around and be done with it?

What's the point causing hassle for yourself and the Gardaí when the end result is definitely going to be them looking around the place anyways?

But don't let them in if they're not wearing navy socks,obviously!

Oh_Noes

That's absolutely absurd. It's an invasion of privacy, no two ways about it.

Whether or not you've anything to hide is irrevelant, it's insane that the authorities are showing up at your house asking to search it because a foreign dignitary will happen to be passing by. The public aren't asked what foreign guests they'd like to visit the country and shouldn't have to facilitate the security measures of it by having their privacy invaded.

You should refuse to let them in and force them to get a warrant. Everyone else who's on this list should do the same. It's shameful to hear that this is going on, I'm embarrassed for Ireland.

moomooman

I've let the Gardai search my home twice because they were investigating a crime, thats being reasonable. Searching my home on the off chance one of the richest people on earth might drive by is a total waste of resources, to which I'll be happy to contribute.

Being presumed a terrorist because I choose to assert my rights only validates any decision not to cooperate in the first place.

If youre afraid to use your rights for fear of the consequences then you dont really have those rights in the first place.

Wudyaquit

meathstevie wrote: »

A Garda is a Garda, even in a pair of waiders and a pink tutu and the word uniform generally refers to clothing making a Garda readily identifiable as being a Garda. Such clothing could be riot gear, bike leathers and high viz jacket for Traffic Corps, etc etc

Everyone knows that. Tutus are fine as long as they're wearing a hat.

stimpson

starviewadams wrote: »

Unless you have something to hide why not just let them have a quick look around and be done with it?

I'd be worried they would confiscate my tomato plants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV2grWw38NQ

Locust

If they want to search your house bottom line - they'll have a warrant and it will be searched.

And they can wear a pair of shorts and t-shirts if they want while doing it.
If you want to refuse them entry on a lawful warrant or get in their way, 'exercising your constitutional rights?' - you'll end up with your door lawfully being put in and getting lawfully arrested. Then you'll be given a nice printed out copy of your rights.

A bit ott - maybe, invasion of privacy? - yeah i suppose. Is the Queen not rich enough to fly by chopper - of course she is but they always have contingency plans. But best just let them search it, its a state visit, I wouldn't have thought they would search houses along a route without good reason to...

Bannasidhe

I used to work in a well known Cork hotel and on one occasion the then Secretary for Northern Ireland was due to stay. The Guards demanded to see the passports and run security checks on all the staff. When the (French) head chef heard about this he refused to give details of any Irish staff working in the kitchen -non-Irish he had no problem with (he gave his own details) but told the Guards in no uncertain terms that they had two choices - they could force the issue and insist that Irish citizens under go a security check in their own country in which case he would close the kitchen or they could bugger off. They buggered off....
We had a large number diplomats staying-including Jean Kennedy Smith the then US Ambassador - but had never before been asked to under go security clearance just to do our job.

I would strongly object to having my house searched. I am an Irish citizen living in Ireland -I do not see why my home should be 'invaded' because the head of a foreign state may pass by...

stimpson

Locust wrote: »

If they want to search your house bottom line - they'll have a warrant and it will be searched.

The point is that they are requesting access without a warrant.

I'm sure syklops is right and those refusing will be the only ones searched. That would be fine with me. If they had obtained a warrant they would be let in. I've noting to hide, but that doesn't mean that I'm prepared to invite AGS in.

GetTheFFOut

seamus wrote: »

Easy life, you've nothing to hide, so why make a fuss over letting the Gardai in to look around? It's not like they're going to be rifling through your underwear.

I don't understand this extremist protection of privacy. No, they shouldn't be allowed to turn up at will and fire through your house, but when they have a valid reason just let them got on with their job and stop getting upset over nothing FFS.

The same people who'll be obstructing the Gardai on this and wasting their time are the same ones who'll foam at the mouth about wasting money and resources.

seamus wrote: »

Of course you do. But any decent person with an ounce of common sense would just let them get on with it rather than stamping their feet and blathering on about constitutional rights when there's no need to.

It's a reasonable request from a Garda. A reasonable person would let them just get on with it.

What valid reason have they got? If I'm a law abiding citizen they have no reason to search my home no matter who may be walking past my window. There's nothing extremist about not wanting strangers searching through your home and personal belongings.
There's nothing reasonable about the request, its my home, I've done nothing wrong and I don't want them in my home.

discus

stimpson wrote:

The point is that they are requesting access without a warrant.

I'm sure syklops is right and those refusing will be the only ones searched. That would be fine with me. If they had obtained a warrant they would be let in. I've noting to hide, but that doesn't mean that I'm prepared to invite AGS in.

I'd like to thank you publicly for wasting my tax money, by insisting on gardai having to waste extra hours on getting a warrant for a search that you have no problem with, once there is a warrant. That's a few hours that that local Garda could be answering calls and dealing with the public.

I raise my glass to you stimpson.

Locust

GetTheFFOut wrote: »

What valid reason have they got? If I'm a law abiding citizen they have no reason to search my home no matter who may be walking past my window.

I suppose there a few reasons perhaps the main one that comes to mind is that there is a major threat from dissident republican groups to attack anything associated with the royals in Ireland?! They can't take any chances of an attack/bomb especially if it were in Dublin/built up area... Search OP's house? or don't bother because it might upset people, having a snoop around their rooms...?

Why you the law abiding citizens house? Let say hypothetically for the OP they may be coming past his front door. Lets just imagine for a moment - perhaps the authorities are acting on information they have intercepted/received via surveillance (fairly plausible i suppose) that the royals would be attacked on your road?! It would make sense in that hypothetical scenario to suss out and if need be search every building on the street.

Bannasidhe

discus wrote: »

I'd like to thank you publicly for wasting my tax money, by insisting on gardai having to waste extra hours on getting a warrant for a search that you have no problem with, once there is a warrant. That's a few hours that that local Garda could be answering calls and dealing with the public.

I raise my glass to you stimpson.

Is it a waste of taxpayers money to insist that the police cannot enter and search ones home because someone might be driving past? They do not have reasonable cause to conduct a carte blanc search of hundreds of homes - where is their evidence a crime is about to be committed?

It is an infringement of our civil liberties - haven't we been shat on enough by the powers that be already without them demanding the right to enter and search our home just 'because' - who the hell needs Due Process anyway.

Conducting these searches is also a huge waste of police resources - any would be terrorist worth their salt would make sure they was nothing to find. Explosives could be easily moved on site after the searches have taken place. Or do the Guards intend to stop and search people the streets in question too?

Greenmachine

My house is my castle. If your not invited. Stay the flip out.

jpfahy

knick_knack wrote: »

Finally the gardai who showed up was not wearing a hat? Is it within my rights to refuse entry if they are not wearing full uniform. Not saying I would since I don't want them taking a dislike to us but would be handy to know.
.

Most Garda Powers apply whether the Garda is in uniform or not and whether he/she is on or off duty.
Only for things like inspecting pubs is the uniform required.

stimpson

discus wrote: »

I'd like to thank you publicly for wasting my tax money, by insisting on gardai having to waste extra hours on getting a warrant for a search that you have no problem with, once there is a warrant. That's a few hours that that local Garda could be answering calls and dealing with the public.

I raise my glass to you stimpson.

I suppose you support internment without trial because it might save a few man hours?

I never said I didn't have a problem with it. A guard needs reasonable suspicion to get a warrant. Refusing them free reign to wander around my house should not constitute reasonable grounds.

If you are so worried about saving the guards a few quid you should get yourself out to Sligo to see the waste going on out there.

Eru

Not often I say this but Im against the Garda action this time. As someone else said, your home is your castle and I personally wouldnt take kindly to being informed that "Everyone MUST be vetted". vetted for what? To continue to live in my own home?

Now, seeing as I am a Garda I tend to be polite to my local colleagues so if this happened to me and it was a request I would let them in and put the kettle on however I would take exception if it was a demand.

Wolfe Tone

A reasonable person would let them?

OP tell them to fcuk off, its your house and YOU are entitled to your privacy.

They have NO RIGHT to search your house without a warrant. Stick to your guns and dont be bullied.

You are entitled to your privacy, this is totally unreasonable of the Gardaí, turning over your house because you may be a terrorist? Jesus Christ.

OP stick this over in the legal discussion forum and see what the legal heads say there, rather than asking in the garda forum.

goldie fish

stimpson wrote: »

If they have a valid reason then they can get a warrant. That is the whole point. If you are not under suspicion you have a constitutional right to the privacy of your own home. Just because Mrs Saxe-Coburg-Gotha is coming to tea doesn't mean you should have your rights trampled on.

Queen Victoria is coming too?:eek:

stimpson

goldie fish wrote: »

Queen Victoria is coming too?:eek:

Windsor is just the name of a castle.

delta720

Imagine the situation if houses along the Queens possible route weren't searched, and dissident republicans picked a certain house as an ideal location for an explosive attack.

If there was an attack and Irish citizens were hurt or killed, you'd have all the same people currently shouting about their rights then giving out about: 'the Gardai not protecting us', 'my taxes are ment to pay for my protection', 'Gardai are payed 100,000 euro a year and they can't even look after us', 'My house wasn't even searched, wouldn't take a genius to figure out where they were going to attack from, stupid Gardai with their Junior Certs', 'They should have been stopping real crime like this instead of wasting their time arresting people for a bit of weed'.....it goes on, basicly the Guards can never win.

discus

Eru wrote: »

Now, seeing as I am a Garda I tend to be polite to my local colleagues so if this happened to me and it was a request I would let them in and put the kettle on however I would take exception if it was a demand.

No one is saying that you have to welcome them in, bend over for them and make them dinner. No one likes having their home turned over by strangers, for reasons they don't agree with, but I can't see why people would get so incensed by it. Besides, I think we can surmise that this is nothing but a rudimentary look around.

The views opposing mine reek of the speeding drivers argument; ya know those drivers who complain about the speed traps are the ones who the speed traps are there to snare.

jhegarty

discus wrote: »

The views opposing mine reek of the speeding drivers argument; ya know those drivers who complain about the speed traps are the ones who the speed traps are there to snare.

So everyone who wants to defend their rights is a terrorist ?

discus

No, but they have some reason that they don't want the gardai in there.

I dunno. I'm generalising. If it was our president, or Obama, would there be such commotion about it?

GetTheFFOut

Locust wrote: »

I suppose there a few reasons perhaps the main one that comes to mind is that there is a major threat from dissident republican groups to attack anything associated with the royals in Ireland?! They can't take any chances of an attack/bomb especially if it were in Dublin/built up area... Search OP's house? or don't bother because it might upset people, having a snoop around their rooms...?

Why you the law abiding citizens house? Let say hypothetically for the OP they may be coming past his front door. Lets just imagine for a moment - perhaps the authorities are acting on information they have intercepted/received via surveillance (fairly plausible i suppose) that the royals would be attacked on your road?! It would make sense in that hypothetical scenario to suss out and if need be search every building on the street.

But they would still have no reason to search my home because I have nothing to do with any republican group and never will.

GetTheFFOut

discus wrote: »

No, but they have some reason that they don't want the gardai in there.

Lets put it like this, can I come over to your house and snoop through your belongings?

stimpson

discus wrote: »

The views opposing mine reek of the speeding drivers argument; ya know those drivers who complain about the speed traps are the ones who the speed traps are there to snare.

Nice straw man argument.

jimbob86

The queens visit is costing the state 13 million i heard on the radio today,thats some bull****e.....

She is also laying a wreath at the 1916 garden of remberance at the top of o connell st,thats a bit rich imo especially on her first visit to this country.:mad:

hinault

President Clinton visited Ireland in 1998. I was living in Limerick at the time and several weeks before the visit a garda and a secret service agent called to my house.
I lived just off the SCR and the Clinton entourage were going to be staying in
Adare Manor and their trip back in to Limerick passed by my door.

The Garda politely enquired as to the number of tenants in the house.
I said that I wasn't happy at being questioned about my private property.
The Garda explained that they were doing a security reconnaissance and that there was nothing to be worried about.

I can well understand the OP's reluctance.

Rawhead

Why not have a bit of craic with the feds and do the following,
1. Put on celtic jersey
2. leave a few bags of 10/10/20 just in view
3. put the wolfe tones on full blast
4. act all nervous when you answer the door
Just don't blame us if your house gets wrecked in the follow up search and you get a few digs in the Bridewell.
You'll be a hero to us though....

Oh_Noes

discus wrote: »

No, but they have some reason that they don't want the gardai in there.

The Gardai need to have a valid reason to be there, not the other way around.

No-one wants uninvited strangers snooping around their house.

in 2004, ireland held the presidency of the EU for 6 months.
dublin castle was were pretty much all events took place.

every person who worked in dublin castle ( revenue staff, tribrunial staff, events office staff etc etc) were ALL subject to security checks before they were allowed to work inside in the castle.
everyone living within half mile radius, the same thing! including apartments, where a few brothels were uncovered!!!!

if they didnt pass, did not allow the check, they dint get in. simples.

lots of states of head, presidents and prime ministers were in the country for months around our presidency of the EU. never heard any complaints for those 6 months!!