iPhone tracks users' movements

seamus

Actually it's more unlikely because Apple haven't been collecting location history data on its users.

They have admitted that some of the data used for A-GPS functionality is stored, but only after the device has sent it in an anonymous format, so you couldn't argue that this is collecting location history data.

smokingman

Thing is though that the location based services on an iphone can be turned off (opting out) but this still logs the data so therein lies the legal argument against them. Not owning any apple products, I'm not too concerned myself but this is something that should set a precedent in privacy protection.

Mantel

sink wrote: »

Unlikely because Apple reserved the right to track the location of it's devices in the EULA. It will just create more negative publicity for Apple which can be just as damaging.

I think they might be got on the security of the file and the method they used for storing it. I.e., easily found and not encrypted.

PCPhoto

its strange that people are jumping all over it because its Apple.

My HTC synchronises every time its turned on - despite the fact I have ALL data usage turned off....I have not downloaded any "apps" and on that note...you can only download an "app" on a HTC after you sign into google - which means they are able to link the phone number with the google account - something which I'm not comfortable with.

I think data is being sent to google and collected in a similar manner but no-one cares or its being ignored.

PeakOutput

imo they have not got a hope

the eula tells you they are doing this, it dosnt tell you that they are doing this and you may turn it off.

the information is not sent to apple it is kept on your phone for the use of applications that you download and give permission to for its use

there is no privacy issues with this unless you lose your phone or your computer and dont have it password protected or have the file

it is that simple

CiaranC

PCPhoto wrote: »

its strange that people are jumping all over it because its Apple.

My HTC synchronises every time its turned on - despite the fact I have ALL data usage turned off....I have not downloaded any "apps" and on that note...you can only download an "app" on a HTC after you sign into google - which means they are able to link the phone number with the google account - something which I'm not comfortable with.

Not true, there are loads of alternative markets available on android. You can install software from anywhere.

I think data is being sent to google and collected in a similar manner but no-one cares or its being ignored.

Of course people care. You have to opt-in to this on android, which I for one certainly havent.

Sad Professor

Do cell towers report their own location? i.e. longitude/latitude? Or does the phone have to get that info from an online database?

PeakOutput

CiaranC wrote: »

Not true, there are loads of alternative markets available on android. You can install software from anywhere.

sideloading is not very easy for your average user, its not something they know about or seek out.

Of course people care. You have to opt-in to this on android, which I for one certainly havent.

have you a link for that?

ozmo

Ive no problem with my phone logging my details to an internal file on the iphone - just would like to see it.

Doing some more digging. Trying to represent what the data is.
Here is what I see of my data - there appears to be a Log entry the first time I enter a new area - then All points (Cell masts/wifi transmitters?) in the vacinity are recorded.

It does not seem to be a log of every time I passed through the area.

For instance - there appears to be only 5 or 6 unique timestamps over my house for a whole year.

Below is a map I made (South Dublin area)- with each point plotted and then buffered by the horizontalAccuracy recorded for that point (circle drawn around it). (Some had horizontalAccuracy of 10Km - I had to remove any points less accurate than 2km from the below map)
Ive coloured each buffer a unique colour depending on the time stamp. And labeled it with the timestamp.


* There are a great many areas I have never visited on this map. In fact most of the dots.
* The log seems not so useful for tracking when you were at a location. The IPhone is either is overwriting all points with a new timestamp each time you visit an area or not recording new points if you've been there before (need to determine which yet).

click for larger image:consolidated.db.jpg

BrianD

Sad Professor wrote: »

Do cell towers report their own location? i.e. longitude/latitude? Or does the phone have to get that info from an online database?

Apparently each mast has a Cell ID but not sure if the latt/long is contained in what it transmits. Some networks have played with location based services over their networks (without GPS) so there may be info contained in what the towers transmit. There are databases of mobile phone masts available online. So unless it is contained in the signal, the device would have to poll a database.

Any device that has the ability to both record Cell IDs and GPS data would be useful in creating both a map and database. If all the data from all devices was pooled you'd have a global map and database.

I do know that in the UK if you have cell info text switched on it will give you the first part of the postcode that you are in or in Australia it often gives you the placename of the location that you are in.

aidan_walsh

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/21557-apple-responds-to-iphone-lo

Apple has responded to the location data issues on its iOS devices, saying the database is a cache of crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers. It will make changes to this in a software update.

Apple addressed the most frequently asked questions on the matter in a statement about the controversy over the discovery that 3G enabled iPhones and iPads running iOS 4 were keeping track of their owners' locations.

The statement said Apple was not tracking the location of user’s iPhones and do not ever have plans to do so.

Apple said the iPhone was not logging users' locations, but was “maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location” to help a user’s device calculate its location when requested.

“Calculating a phone’s location using just GPS satellite data can take up to several minutes,” read the statement.

“iPhone can reduce this time to just a few seconds by using Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data to quickly find GPS satellites, and even triangulate its location using just Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data when GPS is not available, such as indoors or in basements.

“These calculations are performed live on the iPhone using a crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data that is generated by tens of millions of iPhones sending the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple,” read Apple’s statement.

Apple said that entire crowd-source database is too big to be put on a single iPhone, so Apple downloads an appropriate cache onto each iPhone, which gets backed up to iTunes whenever the phone syncs with it.

“The location data that researchers are seeing on the iPhone is not the past or present location of the iPhone, but rather the locations of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers surrounding the iPhone’s location, which can be more than 100 miles away from the iPhone,” said Apple.

Apple said this data is sent anonymously and encrypted to them, meaning they cannot identify an individual’s location.

Bugs
Apple acknowledged the fact this cache of the Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database is stored for up to a year is a bug, noting it doesn't think the iPhone needs to store more than seven days of this data.

The company also acknowledged the iPhone should not be collecting this data when the user deactivates Location Services, which Apple also said was a bug.

Apart from the collection of crowd-source Wi-Fi hotspot and cell-tower data, Apple is also collecting anonymous traffic data to build a database to provide an improved traffic service for iPhone users.

The company said location data is not shared with third parties or ads unless the user explicitly approves this.

In the coming weeks, Apple will release a software update for iOS which will reduce the size of the Wi-Fi hotspot and cell-tower database cached on the iPhone. The update will cause the iPhone to stop backing up this cache onto iTunes and will delete the cache entirely when Location Services have been turned off. The cache will also be encrypted on the iOS device.

The Q&A on the Apple PR page.

Hobbes

“iPhone can reduce this time to just a few seconds by using Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data to quickly find GPS satellites, and even triangulate its location using just Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data when GPS is not available, such as indoors or in basements.

Something that Nokia have been doing for years.

aidan_walsh

aidan_walsh wrote: »

1. Why is Apple tracking the location of my iPhone?
Apple is not tracking the location of your iPhone. Apple has never done so and has no plans to ever do so.

Major lol on Apples very first rebuttal as they are trying to patent this very thing!

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220110051665%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20110051665&RS=DN/20110051665

cornbb

Deleted User wrote: »

Major lol on Apples very first rebuttal as they are trying to patent this very thing!

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220110051665%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20110051665&RS=DN/20110051665

Their rebuttal is entirely consistent with what they are saying in the patent claim. Apple are upfront about the fact that they are maintaining an anonymised "location history database".

From the Q&A:

These calculations are performed live on the iPhone using a crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data that is generated by tens of millions of iPhones sending the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple

Sad Professor

A very satisfying explanation from Apple, which more or less confirmed what I suggested earlier, i.e. that the log file is used as an offline database of cell towers and wifi access points in order to faster acquire your position when using location services. We already know that Android phones do the same thing.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the only issue:

7. When I turn off Location Services, why does my iPhone sometimes continue updating its Wi-Fi and cell tower data from Apple’s crowd-sourced database?
It shouldn’t. This is a bug, which we plan to fix shortly (see Software Update section below).

And it's a minor one.

ozmo

aidan_walsh wrote: »

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/21557-apple-responds-to-iphone-lo


The Q&A on the Apple PR page.

The statement said Apple was not tracking the location of user’s iPhones and do not ever have plans to do so.

Apple said the iPhone was not logging users' locations, but was “maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location” to help a user’s device calculate its location when requested.
...
Apple said that entire crowd-source database is too big to be put on a single iPhone, so Apple downloads an appropriate cache onto each iPhone,

Yeah, thanks for that ref - this is exactly what I am seeing in the data (screenshot in my last post) - its not tracking you like the bloggers are claiming.... its noting and updating the the cells and wifi spots in your area.

Still would like to know what that "horizontalAccuracy" was for though - if the points are masts/wifi zones - same with the "confidence" "Speed" "Altitude" fields etc... did they expect the masts to be moving?

Those who keep an open mind and don't automatically buy the PR crap from Apple should read this from the WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703367004576288790268529716.html

Looks like Apple did claim it was a bug! It can track a a user to within a 100 feet and seems that Apple lied to a senator about whether or not their phones track location too....hmmm....very creepy...

ozmo

Deleted User wrote: »

Those who keep an open mind and don't automatically buy the PR crap from Apple...
It can track a a user to within a 100 feet
Apple lied to a senator...

Also dont just believe what the bloggers say either...check it out for yorself.
I was hoping to find a nice trace (like google latitude has for the android) but didnt .

- I mapped my data and Im satisified that it is NOT tracking in any real sense - it records points of interest around you - some even may have been downloaded from apple rather than me passing them myself)

So in dublin anyway - accuracy of about 1Km to 2Km - sometimes showing points that are up to 20Km from where you were.

and only the _first_ time you were there - subsequent visits dont seem to be recorded.

From my view - It wasnt intented as a tracking tool - and without relaible timestamp - and really unusable accuracy of the phones location- its far too unreliable for use as or to be called a tracking tool.


If you want a tracking tool on the IPhone - sign up for Apples FindMyIPhone - its really good, free, and accurate to about 50 feet.

ozmo

ozmo wrote: »

Also dont just believe what the bloggers say either...check it out for yorself.
I was hoping to find a nice trace (like google latitude has for the android) but didnt .

- I mapped my data and Im satisified that it is NOT tracking in any real sense - it records points of interest around you - some even may have been downloaded from apple rather than me passing them myself)

So in dublin anyway - accuracy of about 1Km to 2Km - sometimes showing points that are up to 20Km from where you were.

and only the _first_ time you were there - subsequent visits dont seem to be recorded.

From my view - It wasnt intented as a tracking tool - and without relaible timestamp - and really unusable accuracy of the phones location- its far too unreliable for use as or to be called a tracking tool.


If you want a tracking tool on the IPhone - sign up for Apples FindMyIPhone - its really good, free, and accurate to about 50 feet.

Only a Apple fanboy in the face of critiscism of his jesus phone would reduce the Wall Street Journal to the status of a blog!
I think I will side with the experts on this, as per WSJ article, when they say it tracks your location and sends it to Apple.

Sad Professor

That WSJ article is just an overview of the controversy. The log file itself is not being sent to Apple. There's no need. It is partially compiled from data that has already been sent to Apple - this is how A-GPS works. Otherwise you'd be left waiting several minutes to get your location from a GPS satellite. And because it keeps an offline database of cell towers and wifi routers, this log file actually means less info is being sent to Apple.

The only significant issue here is that the iPhone's location services continues to operate in some capacity even when it's switched off. This should only be of concern to you if you occasionally switch off location services because you don't want "the grid" to know where you are. But if you are paranoid enough to be worried about stuff like that then you probably shouldn't be using a phone in the first place because your mobile network already knows your location.

The main problem here seems to be that people don't understand how the GPS on their phone works.

Sad Professor

Sad Professor wrote: »

The main problem here seems to be that people don't understand how the GPS on their phone works.

So are you saying this is a feature of every phone that has GPS??! News to me!
Don't recall Nokia or Samsung lying about whether or not they track their users in an unencrypted file on the device and on any machine it syncs with then sends that info to HQ(as per the expert research findings). Then when found out claim its a bug but yet also seem to be patenting a similar process...

ozmo

Deleted User wrote: »

Only a Apple fanboy .

Not a fan boy - cannot stand macs for instance... I have an interest in GPS and wanted a handy tracker.


I really wanted to find a tracker log - but I couldnt fine one -
And I found Zero info out there how to convert what I had to be usable.


If you can find anyone saying they actually found a usable result - please do post - I couldnt fine one - even that article you posted is just the usual newspaper/blog bull - zero real facts, logs or analysis.


What I find is only the fist visit recorded - and then - only the points around you - not your actual position - and even then the points from up to 10K away are included into the mix making the result blurred.


but holding onto logs like that for more than a day or so, no matter how inaccurate - was definetly out of order and could lead to falsly place someone at a location, which is probably worse.


Again - please do post if you can find a report that actually says how the phone can generate the phones location from these points. And I will update my ArcMap models.

ozmo

Deleted User wrote: »

So are you saying this is a feature of every phone that has GPS??! News to me!

Yes.

Older GPS -N95, Tomtoms etc dont have this facility - which is why it can take so long for them to get a 'lock'. eg. My N95 used to take up to 2 minutes to show where you are - it sucked.


Android and IPhone get a rough lock in seconds by looking for nearby wifi networks, cell masts etc. which it can find quickly. It needs a database copy off line as you may not have wifi access right then to do the database lookup to convert those wifi names to map xy location (eg. IPad non 3G, no data plan etc) - hence the need for this database.


Android phones also use a similar method - but I havent tested it myself yet - but it looks like it sends waaay more info than the IPhone - see link here (Note: I am not trying to android/google phone bash - just pointing out both phones need to do this to get a quick gps lock - reports vary of what android phones send - I have not verified myself what this web page reports).

Kensington

iOS 4.3.3 has been released as a fix to the tracking issue.

Basically:
- smaller cache size (shorter history)
- cache is no longer backed up to iTunes on your pc
- turning Location Services off wipes the cache completely