iPhone tracks users' movements

TheIrishGrover

Bloody hell.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13145562

20 April 2011 Last updated at 16:41 GMT

iPhone tracks users' movements
Map of iPhone movements Apple's iPhone and iPad 3G collect information about their users' location which can be mapped
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Apple iPhones and 3G iPads are secretly recording and storing details of all their owners' movements, researchers claim.

Location data is kept in a hidden, unencrypted file according to security experts Alasdair Allan and Pete Warden.

With the right software, it can be used to map exactly where a person has been.

Apple has yet to comment on the revelation, however there in no suggestion that it has been uploading or using the information.

The findings, first reported by the Guardian newspaper, will come as a surprise to most iPhone users, as their devices do not give any visual indication that such data is being recorded.

However, although the practice is not explicitly flagged-up, it appears to be covered in the company's terms of use.

"We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behaviour and improve our products, services, and advertising"
Clearly intentional

Writing on the technology website O'Reilly Radar, Mr Allan and Mr Warden said they did not know why iPhones and iPads were collecting location information but it was "clearly intentional".

The men claim that the facility to record users' positions was added with the iOS4 software update, released in June 2010.

The data is also transferred to the owner's computer and stored in a file there each time the two devices are connected to carry-out a backup or synchronisation.

Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant at security firm Sophos, told BBC News that it was unlikely Apple planned to use the information for commercial purposes.

"I think there are some legitimate privacy concerns and people will probably look for a way of obscuring that data," he said.

"But it is an object lesson about reading the terms and conditions," he added.

Kensington

Guess what? Your mobile phone network knows EXACTLY where you are right now. They know where you were at 1pm this afternoon. They know where you were at 1pm three months ago.

I'm not particularly concerned. The iPhone tracks your whereabouts anyway if you sign up to the Find My iPhone feature which allows you to remotely locate, lock and wipe the handset. Maybe it's planned to update the Find My iPhone service to track the phone location history after it has been stolen, who knows.

whiterebel

Kensington wrote: »

Guess what? Your mobile phone network knows EXACTLY where you are right now. They know where you were at 1pm this afternoon. They know where you were at 1pm three months ago.

I'm not particularly concerned. The iPhone tracks your whereabouts anyway if you sign up to the Find My iPhone feature which allows you to remotely locate, lock and wipe the handset. Maybe it's planned to update the Find My iPhone service to track the phone location history after it has been stolen, who knows.

Quite a bit different though, to them traking your whereabouts without your knowledge. At least you sign up to find my iPhone......

Andrew33

Kensington wrote: »

Guess what? Your mobile phone network knows EXACTLY where you are right now. They know where you were at 1pm this afternoon. They know where you were at 1pm three months ago.

I'm not particularly concerned. The iPhone tracks your whereabouts anyway if you sign up to the Find My iPhone feature which allows you to remotely locate, lock and wipe the handset. Maybe it's planned to update the Find My iPhone service to track the phone location history after it has been stolen, who knows.

Not exactly. Mobile phone evidence used in a murder trial here a couple of years ago was able to show which mast/masts picked up signal from the accused' phone which placed him in the vicinity of the crime. The difference with the iPhone (and other smart phones) is the built in GPS which they have. If you were using a regular (unsmart?) phone your network would not know exactly where you where at all times. It's still a tad "1984" ish though:cool:

Sad Professor

It would appear that this log files records cell towers and wifi data, but not GPS data. So it's not recording your exact position. I'd be concerned about why this is being recorded and how well it is encrypted, but I wouldn't be too worried about Apple using this data. It would be different it was Google.

Gregor Samsa

Kensington wrote: »

Guess what? Your mobile phone network knows EXACTLY where you are right now. They know where you were at 1pm this afternoon. They know where you were at 1pm three months ago.

The difference is, that in order for anyone to get the tracking data from your phone company, they have to get a court order. In order to get this data, all they need is access to your phone or unencrypted phone backups on your computer.

GPS data isn't used - just cell tower triangulation, so it's not completely accurate for every specific instance in the log, but it's accurate enough on average.

Here's a proof of concept Mac application that can read the database from your backup, and display your historic location on a map:

http://petewarden.github.com/iPhoneTracker/

This was written by the guys that discovered the tracking file (well, the ones that have publicised it at least - others discovered it before, and kept quiet about it). The deliberately hobbled the app by only displaying your location on a weekly basis, and limiting the resolution of your location - the actual information stored in the database is much more frequent, and the location much more precise (but not necessarily accurate). It wouldn't take much to make the application render the much more precise data, so maybe we'll see that soon.

This is a big deal, simply because it's being done without the user's consent or knowledge, and there's no apparent way to stop it being logged. It doesn't matter if Apple are doing it for some planned service - they should be up front about it, and it should be opt in. The way this is implemented, it sounds like something Facebook or Google would do.

whiterebel

Sad Professor wrote: »

It would appear that this log files records cell towers and wifi data, but not GPS data. So it's not recording your exact position. I'd be concerned about why this is being recorded and how well it is encrypted, but I wouldn't be too worried about Apple using this data. It would be different it was Google.

Why Google, and not Apple as a matter of interest?

Sad Professor

whiterebel wrote: »

Why Google, and not Apple as a matter of interest?

I just don't particularly trust Google. Their whole business is in collecting and selling data to advertisers. Apple's business is selling hardware. For the time being at least, I think Apple are the lesser of two evils when it comes to privacy.

Gregor Samsa

Sad Professor wrote: »

I just don't particularly trust Google. Their whole business is in collecting and selling data to advertisers. Apple's business is selling hardware. For the time being at least, I think Apple are the lesser of two evils when it comes to privacy.

"For the time being" indeed: iAds

Sad Professor

phutyle wrote: »

"For the time being" indeed: iAds

iAds is just a way for developers to make money from their apps. As with the iTunes/App Store, Apple make a very small profit from it. They use it to draw developers to their platform, resulting in better apps and in turn more hardware sales. Could Apple become more reliant on advertising in the future? Sure, but unless you think they have plans to abandon making hardware, it's not something I'd be worried about.

On the other hand, advertising is Google's whole business. They don't sell anything to their users, it's all free. Instead they sell their user's data to advertisers.

Mellor

Every sinlge person with an iPhone agreed to this

mufcboy1999

illuminati lads enough said, the internet is going to be the downfall of mankind its all a set up to get your details, personal info like your location, images, family, freinds, lifestyle etc etc

iphones and normal mobiles tracking your location, soon you wont be able to take a shi* without them knowing.

reduce the worlds population is there goal, so we become more easy to control.

all these disasters popping up are avoidable and yes even japan, they were all preventable they could have saved peoples lifes. theres more coming and they know about them 2012 aint no joke lads.

send your iphones to me and il take care of them free of charge lads.

Mellor

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

illuminati lads enough said, the internet is going to be the downfall of mankind its all a set up to get your details, personal info like your location, images, family, freinds, lifestyle etc etc

iphones and normal mobiles tracking your location, soon you wont be able to take a shi* without them knowing.

reduce the worlds population is there goal, so we become more easy to control.

all these disasters popping up are avoidable and yes even japan, they were all preventable they could have saved peoples lifes. theres more coming and they know about them 2012 aint no joke lads.

send your iphones to me and il take care of them free of charge lads.

Candidate for stupidiest post ever (and yes i know you were joking)

ironclaw

I'd say this data has some connection to SkyHook and the location based services. Rather than send someone out to test and measure, just get every user with a iPhone to do it without thinking. I'm not worried and neither should anyone else. This is the way the world is going. Every Google search is recorded etc etc so its just another aspect of our digital lives. I can't see a reason why someone would be worried about someone else knowing where they were, unless it was for suspect purposes.

What hasn't been mentioned either is the huge reams of data such as Call Logs and SMS's that the iPhone also stores (Even after deletion). If your up to no good or have a good reason not to want records, don't buy an iPhone.

Andrew33

Mellor wrote: »

Every sinlge person with an iPhone agreed to this

Maybe, but not knowingly. Do you read all the terms and conditions before you click on "I agree"?

Gregor Samsa

ironclaw wrote: »

I can't see a reason why someone would be worried about someone else knowing where they were, unless it was for suspect purposes.

Privacy isn't just for the guilty.

I don't want my boss knowing that I went to Company X for an interview.
I don't want my wife to know that I went to Shop x to buy her a surprise gift.
I don't want my business competitor knowing what clients I visited and when.
I don't want my crazy ex-girlfriend knowing my every move.
I don't want the scumbag that stole my iPhone knowing everywhere I've been and at exactly what time.

Basically, I don't want any old Joe to be able to easily access my life history without my consent or appropriate legal authority.

rivalius13

FINALLY I'll be able to figure out where the hell I went off to that night in Galway...

Gregor Samsa

Mellor wrote: »

Every single person with an iPhone agreed to this

Well, the Terms and Conditions say:

We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behaviour and improve our products, services, and advertising

But they don't say "And we'll store all this in a perpetual unencrypted file right there on your iPhone, and on any computer you back the iPhone up to, and this file will get transferred on to new devices you set up from old backups. And anyone who gets their hands on this file, will be able to easily access the entire location history of your iPhone."

So, no, every single person with an iPhone has not agreed to this.

Any company has legal and ethical responsibilities with regards the data they store and collect, regardless of the T&Cs. What Apple are doing may be legal, but it's certainly underhand and irresponsible.

Sunnyisland

Is this just applicable to your own phone or could I put someone else's number or they put mine to find someones movements.

nagero

realies wrote: »

Is this just applicable to your own phone or could I put someone else's number or they put mine to find someones movements.

It is an app you run on your machine that reads the data from your iPhone's backup file.

If you're worried about this then:

• Turn on encrypted backups http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1766
• Enable data protection to encrypt your data on the iPhone http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4175

A side effect of encrypted backups is that they will include the passwords for your email accounts and mobile me, so if you restore you won't have to enter that info again.


regards

kevin

seamus

realies wrote: »

Is this just applicable to your own phone or could I put someone else's number or they put mine to find someones movements.

It only applies to your own phone. The information is being collected by your phone, not by Apple.

And no, the files are not being transmitted to Apple.

I imagine this is being collected for an innocent enough purpose and the wider implications weren't thought of.

More specifically the plan is probably to collect cell and WiFi data on the phone which can then be used for more efficient hand-offs and to "predict" what cell or WiFi networks are coming up. The iOS can then use this information to more efficiently move between cells and connections because it knows what cells and/or wifi networks are strongest in which locations.

Imagine it like a monkey swinging through the vines, only he's been down this path before and he knows exactly where the vines are and which are strongest and longest.

The information would be timestamped as a matter of course - when you log something, standard practice for most people is to stick a date & time on it, otherwise you've no idea what constitutes new or old data.

It would also serve a purpose in troubleshooting connectivity issues - it's possible that this is a debugging or support feature built in to be used by the developers and support people.

Daniel S

Mellor wrote: »

Every sinlge person with an iPhone agreed to this

Actually no, I got an iPhone when my dad upgraded (he even gave me the new one, he was happy with his old one! ). So I didn't agree ta nofin!!!



I'ma go sue Apple for $100,000,000,000.34

EDIT: Wait, did I agree to this when I downloaded the new firmware? Ah $%&£ then... There goes me money.

zinzan

If you're jailbroken, there's a fix for this coming to Cydia called untrackerd

IamMetaldave

zinzan wrote: »

If you're jailbroken, there's a fix for this coming to Cydia called untrackerd

http://www.techtosh.com/untrackered-clear-automatic-logging-of-locations/

BrianD

Sad Professor wrote: »

I just don't particularly trust Google. Their whole business is in collecting and selling data to advertisers. Apple's business is selling hardware. For the time being at least, I think Apple are the lesser of two evils when it comes to privacy.

You mustn't be paying too much attention to what Apple are doing! The are unique on how they are monetizing their users. Apple don't care about their customers (they do of course give the impression they do) - it's all about their hardware and how they want you to use it.

Apples business is not about selling hardware - look at iTunes, look at the percentages they take off app developers, look at the percentages they plan to take off subscriptions. Their overall aim is to control your device and all media that you consume on it. Google are benign when you compare them to the control freaks that are Apple. It is amusing how the Apple apologist are out doing themselves to invent the possible reasons that would benefit the consumer to explain this. It's not for your benefit. It's to make money out of you as an Apple product user somewhere in the future.

Back on topic, it is concerning that the device is storing this data and reports indicate that Apple may have a future use. At the very least, there should be a declaration that your device is storing this info and who can and how it will be retrieved and used. What the lack of transparency on this?

I'd say there's a few antennae popped up in the Dept. of Homeland Security though this feature may not be news to them. "So what you're saying is that you as a good patriot could give us movements of an Apple device, hmmm, how about this guy..."

bren2002

Id love to see a Windows version of the mapping software.

Homer

It's ok I'm wearing my tinfoil hat... They can't see me

Sad Professor

BrianD wrote: »

You mustn't be paying too much attention to what Apple are doing! The are unique on how they are monetizing their users. Apple don't care about their customers (they do of course give the impression they do) - it's all about their hardware and how they want you to use it.

All they care about is making profit from selling hardware to customers. If the devices are good they sell more, if they are bad they don't. So in that sense they do care about the user's experience because their profits are dependent on it. Do they really care about their customers? Of course not. But how are they "unique" in this regard to any other corporation? Do you think MS or Google care about their users? For that matter who is Google's customers? Their users or the advertisers?

Apples business is not about selling hardware - look at iTunes, look at the percentages they take off app developers, look at the percentages they plan to take off subscriptions.

Do you have figures to show that Apple's business is not about selling hardware? So far it would seem Apple make a very small profit from iTunes and the App Store. The percentage they take from developers goes into running the App Store. But I agree about subscriptions, the 30 percent they are planning to take there is probably too high. But that's for developers and publishers to worry about. Or is Apple supposed to care about them as well? They are a multinational electronics corporations ya know, not a philanthropy. Of course they want their slice of the pie.

Their overall aim is to control your device and all media that you consume on it. Google are benign when you compare them to the control freaks that are Apple. It is amusing how the Apple apologist are out doing themselves to invent the possible reasons that would benefit the consumer to explain this. It's not for your benefit. It's to make money out of you as an Apple product user somewhere in the future.

So basically according to you, Apple are evil control freaks who don't care about their users, but Google are benign? Sounds to me like you are the apologist.

I don't think any corporation cares about people and it's silly to attack either Apple or Google on that basis. But at least Apple's profits come from their users. Apple want to control their devices so they can stay ahead of their competitors and sell more of them. Google want to direct everyone back to their search engine and "free" services so they can collect more data and sell it to advertisers. Neither of them is really benign and you'd have to be a fanboy to think otherwise.

I'm not an Apple apologist, but do try and counter some of the silly sensationalist nonsense that some people spread about them and their devices.

Zascar

CNET article: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20055885-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

There is a tool to visually plot your data - anyone want to give it a go?
http://www.courbis.fr/Localisation-iPhone-votre.html

Johnmb

BrianD wrote: »

You mustn't be paying too much attention to what Apple are doing! The are unique on how they are monetizing their users. Apple don't care about their customers (they do of course give the impression they do) - it's all about their hardware and how they want you to use it.

Apples business is not about selling hardware - look at iTunes, look at the percentages they take off app developers, look at the percentages they plan to take off subscriptions. Their overall aim is to control your device and all media that you consume on it. Google are benign when you compare them to the control freaks that are Apple. It is amusing how the Apple apologist are out doing themselves to invent the possible reasons that would benefit the consumer to explain this. It's not for your benefit. It's to make money out of you as an Apple product user somewhere in the future.

Back on topic, it is concerning that the device is storing this data and reports indicate that Apple may have a future use. At the very least, there should be a declaration that your device is storing this info and who can and how it will be retrieved and used. What the lack of transparency on this?

I'd say there's a few antennae popped up in the Dept. of Homeland Security though this feature may not be news to them. "So what you're saying is that you as a good patriot could give us movements of an Apple device, hmmm, how about this guy..."

I'd be with Sad Professor on this. Even if Apple are planning on using this info to try to make more money out of me, at least I know it is Apple who has, and is using, the information. I don't even use Chrome because I don't trust Google with my information, who knows who they'd be selling it on to. Apple get it, Apple use it, Google get it, whoever pays uses it.

BrianD

Sad Professor wrote: »

All they care about is making profit from selling hardware to customers. If the devices are good they sell more, if they are bad they don't. So in that sense they do care about the user's experience because their profits are dependent on it. Do they really care about their customers? Of course not. But how are they "unique" in this regard to any other corporation? Do you think MS or Google care about their users? For that matter who is Google's customers? Their users or the advertisers?[/unique]

What's unique about Apple is that it's an integrated channel. They have control of your device and what you put on it (for the average joe soap) and the payment channels that you use.

Do you have figures to show that Apple's business is not about selling hardware? So far it would seem Apple make a very small profit from iTunes and the App Store. The percentage they take from developers goes into running the App Store. But I agree about subscriptions, the 30 percent they are planning to take there is probably too high. But that's for developers and publishers to worry about. Or is Apple supposed to care about them as well? They are a multinational electronics corporations ya know, not a philanthropy. Of course they want their slice of the pie.

I wouldn't characterise Apple as solely a hardware company. Yes, I'm sure the bulk of their revenues comes from there but their non-hardware activities - specificallu iTunes - can only get bigger and bigger. The scope of expanding iTunes to sell almost anything is there. You are certainly right about philantrophy - not an ounce of it in Apple or Steve Jobs.

So basically according to you, Apple are evil control freaks who don't care about their users, but Google are benign? Sounds to me like you are the apologist.

Compared with the Apple attitude Google are benign. What Google do is pretty obvious and they have their faults but at least people know what they do and how they operate. I'm not apologising for them as Apple are the ones at fault here.

Speaking of advertising, one wonders if there was a possible tie-in of this concealed info into the iAds platform.

I don't think any corporation cares about people and it's silly to attack either Apple or Google on that basis. But at least Apple's profits come from their users. Apple want to control their devices so they can stay ahead of their competitors and sell more of them. Google want to direct everyone back to their search engine and "free" services so they can collect more data and sell it to advertisers. Neither of them is really benign and you'd have to be a fanboy to think otherwise.

I'm not an Apple apologist, but do try and counter some of the silly sensationalist nonsense that some people spread about them and their devices.

You say that Apples profits come from their users - so does Googles.

There's no silly sensationalism here. Apple have been caught red handed capturing and storing private data on the devices they sell. They have doing this by design and have declared it as a feature to their customers. This is unethical and dishonest from a brand that prides itself as being a lighthouse brand with lofty values.

What this stored data will be used for is open to speculation but I would somewhat doubt it's for something like Seamus suggested earlier. It would most likely be used for some sort of location based marketing or advertising services e.g. iAds Anybody who is in this sphere would love this info - I can see you went to Tescos 4 times in a month spent X and an average 16 min journey time and so on.

If you're a conspiracy theory holder - the Pentagon will get it all.

Johnmb

BrianD wrote: »

You say that Apples profits come from their users - so does Googles.

While a fair bit off topic, I'd be interested to hear who you consider to be Google's users? If you mean the people who use the product (e.g. the person who has an android phone, or Chrome) then how exactly does Google get its profit from them? If you mean the advertisers that Google sell their information and ad space to, then fine, but how does that do the ordinary people any good? Apple makes its money from the ordinary people who use their iPhones, Macs etc. It's in their best interest to keep any information they gather to themselves to help them develop new ways to sell more products to maximise profits. Google on the other hand don't have any hardware, it is in their best interest to sell your information on to as many buyers as possible to maximise their profits.

seamus

BrianD wrote: »

There's no silly sensationalism here. Apple have been caught red handed capturing and storing private data on the devices they sell. They have doing this by design and have declared it as a feature to their customers. This is unethical and dishonest from a brand that prides itself as being a lighthouse brand with lofty values.

Storing information about someone on their own personal device is unethical now?
There is no evidence whatsoever that any data is sent to Apple nor that there is or has been ever any plans to do so. I'm pretty sure these security researchers lifted every rock and piece of code they could to find some evidence that the data was being nefariously transmitted. But they didn't. The information is simply being stored, again on the person's own device and nowhere else.

It's only people who are obsessed about privacy to the point of delusion who have taken this news and assumed that it means that Apple are now spying on people and sending information to the CIA.

It would most likely be used for some sort of location based marketing or advertising services e.g. iAds Anybody who is in this sphere would love this info - I can see you went to Tescos 4 times in a month spent X and an average 16 min journey time and so on.

Well the info isn't being sent to anyone else. And can't be, really. In this country Data Protection would annihilate them. And many european countries have similar policies. You can't include "clauses" in EULAs and the like, you have to specifically get Irish people's buy-in on that.

For a company the size of Apple, intentionally hiding nefarious code and illegal collecting information will eventually lead them being destroyed by the courts, because they will be found out. So this is not happening.

However, there's a fair argument to say that this could be used for targetted iAds - show ads which are relevant to the user's current location. But there's a problem with that; Most people already use location services and allow location services on their phone. This seems like a lot of effort to go to, to try and send ads to a statistically small number of people who have GPS functionality switched off. Indeed, anyone who goes to the effort to switch off location services is unlikely to respond positively to relevant ads.

As usual, the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one.

The reason this is a big security concern is because someone can steal your handset and use the information to profile your movements. Where someone is (for example) a bank manager, you don't need to be following them around for a couple of weeks to see what they're doing. Instead you just rob their phone, analyse it and you instantly know what time they usually leave for work, what route they normally take, what time they usually get home, go to bed, go shopping, etc. Steal his wife's phone and you can get a full mash-up of the entire family's daily routine over the past year.
That's a big problem.

The next iOS update will probably include an auto-delete patch for this.

Sad Professor

BrianD wrote: »

What's unique about Apple is that it's an integrated channel. They have control of your device and what you put on it (for the average joe soap) and the payment channels that you use.

That's true. But so what? What has this got to do with them not caring about their customers or their privacy? Google have a unique position in terms of their control of people's personal data, no? But you think they are benign. Why?

I wouldn't characterise Apple as solely a hardware company. Yes, I'm sure the bulk of their revenues comes from there but their non-hardware activities - specificallu iTunes - can only get bigger and bigger. The scope of expanding iTunes to sell almost anything is there.

Perhaps. But this is not the case at the moment. So your statement that their business is "not about selling hardware" is incorrect. I know there's there's an theory out there that Apple keep such tight control over their hardware because they want to redirect people to their supposedly real revenue stream in iTunes and the App Store, but the figures don't support it at the moment. As of right now, iTunes, the App Store, subscriptions, whatever, are just other ways for Apple to make their devices more appealing than their competitors.

You are certainly right about philantrophy - not an ounce of it in Apple or Steve Jobs.

That there is a record of. Not every wealth individual calls their publicist every time they make a donation. But what has that got to do with anything?

~Rebel~

Johnmb wrote: »

I'd be with Sad Professor on this. Even if Apple are planning on using this info to try to make more money out of me, at least I know it is Apple who has, and is using, the information. I don't even use Chrome because I don't trust Google with my information, who knows who they'd be selling it on to. Apple get it, Apple use it, Google get it, whoever pays uses it.

They don't actually get this information - you do. The only issue here is that you didn't know you did.

Personally, I dont care.

Some people have said they dont want their boss knowing they were going for an interview elsewhere. Then don't sync your phone with their machine or give them your phone.

At the end of the day, there are a lot of emails and other bits and bobs on my phone id rather everyone didn't have access to - so i don't give other people access to them. Its the same with this.

Sad Professor

bedlam wrote: »

Some clarifications and corrections regarding the research done by the O'Reily Duo

Hopefully this will put an end to all the sinister theories about how Apple are using this data... but I doubt it. The blog sites need their hits.

PogMoThoin

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GynEFV4hsA0

The information gathered isn't all from the one device, its from iphone 3GS and 2x iphone 4's he's owned in that time

Whats the big issue here is not that the information is stored, but that its completely un-encrypted and there is no way for the iphone user to delete it. Lose your phone and the finder has your movements for the last year

Stuxnet

Untrackerd tweak from cydia will stop it

Johnmb

~Rebel~ wrote: »

They don't actually get this information - you do.

Yeah I know, but the conspiracy theorists say they plan on getting that information to use it. My point was that even if they do make such changes, at least I know who is getting my information, and I'd be ok with that as Apple wouldn't sell it to anyone else.

mufcboy1999

Mellor wrote: »

Candidate for stupidiest post ever (and yes i know you were joking)

you must of left your sense of humor on the plane over to Sydney. Candidate for biggest dry arse ever:D.

PogMoThoin

Johnmb wrote: »

Yeah I know, but the conspiracy theorists say they plan on getting that information to use it. My point was that even if they do make such changes, at least I know who is getting my information, and I'd be ok with that as Apple wouldn't sell it to anyone else.

Yeah, right,

Even your local Super Valu and Topaz sell your info, You agree to it once you sign up to their rewards tag. Apple just getting in on the game

Sad Professor

It needs to be emphasised once again that there's no evidence that Apple is collecting this data.

Apple is not harvesting this data from your device. This is data on the device that you as the customer purchased and unless they can show concrete evidence supporting this claim – network traffic analysis of connections to Apple servers – I rebut this claim in full. Through my research in this field and all traffic analysis I have performed, not once have I seen this data traverse a network. As rich of data as this might be, it’s actually illegal under California state law:

https://alexlevinson.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/3-major-issues-with-the-latest-iphone-tracking-discovery/

PogMoThoin

The very fact that the devices collected it and leave it un-encrypted on the devices says it all TBH

Sad Professor

PogMoThoin wrote: »

The very fact that the devices collected it and leave it un-encrypted on the devices says it all TBH

What about all the other info that is stored on the phone? Calendars, email, browsing history - they aren't encrypted by default either.

Johnmb

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Yeah, right,

Even your local Super Valu and Topaz sell your info, You agree to it once you sign up to their rewards tag. Apple just getting in on the game

They're not Apple. Apple are in competition with other hardware vendors, such as Samsung, HTC, Dell, Nokia, etc. One of the advantages they have is information on their customers that those other vendors could only dream of (although they don't have the information that is the subject of this thread). They wouldn't sell that information because then they would lose their advantage. They have it, and they use it. If they sold it, their competitors would have it and use it, not very smart.

PogMoThoin

Sad Professor wrote: »

What about all the other info that is stored on the phone? Calendars, email, browsing history - they aren't encrypted by default either.

Yes but its the user puts them there, its the users responsibility what information he has on his phone. This is info thats gathered without permission and stored in a place not easily accessible to the user. People need to have the choice and a way and of at least deleting this data. It should be encrypted

cornbb

There's an awful lot of hand wringing and sensationalism about this. The Guardian calls it a "hidden" file. Isn't every file on iOS hidden from the user? It's not a secret that the iPhone collects location information, and it's not a secret that software logs or caches data for all sorts of reasons. Private data is being gathered on a private device and is being kept on that device and/or the owner's computer. Nobody seems to be emphasising that none of this data is going anywhere else. I can't understand why people are freaking out about this and saying nothing about googles practices, given that their core business is targetted advertising...

Sad Professor

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Yes but its the user puts them there, its the users responsibility what information he has on his phone. This is info thats gathered without permission and stored in a place not easily accessible to the user. People need to have the choice and a way and of at least deleting this data. It should be encrypted

They can encrypt it themselves quite easily, along with everything else. It's a little box in iTunes - you tick it, problem solved. And they can set a passcode on their phone. If they care about the privacy of their emails, contacts, etc they will have already done this.

aidan_walsh

It’s not just the iPhone, Android stores your location data too
It appears to be cell tower information collected, not your GPS information.

Rambo

bren2002 wrote: »

Id love to see a Windows version of the mapping software.

I love to have a iphone app to read the data, would be cool
to look back where you have been

HINT HINT Vinny Coyne

PogMoThoin

aidan_walsh wrote: »

It’s not just the iPhone, Android stores your location data too

Article says Android overwrites info after 12-48 hours, iOS stores it indefinitely