Appalling comments by the ISPCA

mosi

http://sunshineradio.ie/updates/2011/04/18/ispca/

From the horses mouth. He tries to backtrack, saying they do cooperate with some rescues, but not with others as they may up as lab experiments, dog fighting bait etc. I wish he could produce some evidence of this. Again, if they wanted, mechanisms could be put in place to ensure that the best interests of the dogs are upheld.
He then goes on to repeat more BS, claiming that pound dogs all have "issues":mad:

ISDW

There is just so much wrong with this, where to start?

First and really, really basic thing, I know its been pointed out already, but surely the CEO of the recognised, and 'state sanctioned' animal welfare organisation in this country should know that dogs are pedigrees, not thoroughbreds. Semantics I know, but such a basic thing, makes me wonder what does he actually know about animals at all?

There is actually a valid point to questioning lots of Irish dogs going over to the UK for rehoming. Not all rescues over there are reputable, which is why it is necessary for the Irish rescues to know who they are working with. But, all of the rescues that I know here do that, they check on where the dogs are going and they get feedback on the dogs through their lives. Maybe thats just a little bit too much work for such a large organisation to have to do, to actually do some research on UK rescues and then some follow ups? If the ISPCA forged some links perhaps with the RSPCA, that issue could easily be sorted out.

Why do so many dogs go to the UK? Probably for the same reason that Dogs Trust have opened here in Ireland. DT are a British organisation, why on earth have they felt that they have to come here and open a centre? Why have they felt that they have had to give out vouchers for people to get their dogs and cats neutered/spayed to cut down on unwanted litters? Why? Because our 'official' organisation that is supposed to do all of these things doesn't do it. There is some animosity in the UK that DT spend money that they raised from UK citizens in helping animals from a foreign country. It actually makes me embarassed that we have to have this help. But we DO have to have this help, imagine how many more dogs would be killed in pounds or dumped if we didn't get this help, and dogs couldn't go over to the UK for rehoming. Doesn't bear thinking about.

I wonder if Noel Griffin has ever seen a transport van going to the UK? I would bet a lot of money that he hasn't. Our local SPCA, North West, unfortunately have to do regular trips over with dogs. Their van has crates with bedding in, plenty of space, the driver stops often to give the dogs water, exercises them etc. Without these trips, I dread to think what would happen to the local dog population. I was in my vets on Saturday, Moy vets in Ballina who do fantastic work for NWSPCA and for my own rescue. My appointment was late because the vets were treating an old dog that had been thrown into the river with a rock tied to its collar. Obviously the owners had decided they didn't want it anymore. The NWSPCA will pay for that dog's treatment and will foster it until they can find it a new home. They have no affiliation with the ISPCA - thank dog, otherwise, going on Mr Griffin's comments, I imagine that dog would be dead by now.

This nonsense about ugly mongrels just incenses me. So to the ISPCA the life of a dog with IKC papers is worth more than one without? How many dogs from puppy farms have those papers? A helluva lot, these dogs haven't been bred properly, or raised properly, not socialised, so they are no healthier, physically or mentally than a mongrel. I have a husky here, he is a wooly, his coat is too long, he has one ear and part of his nose is missing. He is an ugly dog, without question, but I love him dearly and I could have rehomed him 100 times over. Everyone that meets Vince falls in love with him, he has his own facebook page and has loads of fans.

Something has to be done about this man before he does anymore harm.

ppink

mosi wrote: »

http://sunshineradio.ie/updates/2011/04/18/ispca/

so whats wrong with what he says here on the radio?

he said the paper misquoted him which we all know happens too.

ISDW

ppink wrote: »

so whats wrong with what he says here on the radio?

he said the paper misquoted him which we all know happens too.

I actually couldn't get that link to play, so I don't know what he said in it, but I know he was on spin103.8 today as well, and I understand his comments on that were no better than what he's said in the paper.

pH

Just a minor detail, but the overall 59% dogs put down figure seems* to be calculated by averaging the averages (and any leaving cert maths student could tell you why it's wrong).

*There's a small chance they calculated it correctly and came to the same figure as the average of averages.

Discodog

Shazanne wrote: »

I take offence to this remark.

Firstly I do not know your occupation. Secondly this has been going on for years & no journalist has ever raised the issue. Neither have they raised the 10,000 Greyhounds killed every year. Do a serious undercover into the Greyhound Industry & I will love you for life

Mr Griffin said this "It is not the case that we put down healthy animals nor is this our intention in the future." So here are the figures. The following are the number of dogs killed in ISPCA Pounds during 2009

Donegal 638
Roscommon 198
Kildare 186
Offaly 300
Laois 182
Kilkenny 172
Carlow 134
Clare 518
Wicklow 51

TOTAL 2379

I am now in personal communication with Mr Griffin.

I suspect that the DT do take dogs from ISPCA Pounds but don't tell Mr Griffin.

My inbox suggests that UK rescues are going ballistic over his remarks. Luckily they understand that it isn't the dog's fault.

gbee wrote: »

Obviously the statement has a deeper meaning. On the surface it seems better to put down animals rather than to export them to the UK. Obviously he knows or suspects something that may not be public knowledge.

I don't believe that. His comments & correspondence suggest that he is staggeringly ignorant & is desperate to try & justify killing so many dogs.
I have some 20 years experience of UK rescues & the RSPCA. Apart from the odd "mad" dog or cat lady I have never heard of any concerns regarding UK rescues. If he believes that he is right he should present evidence.

Shenshen wrote: »

I can't fault him for questioning why there would the UK would have such a demand for dogs that nobody wants in Ireland. It would make me just as suspicious as him.

Any animal lover British or Irish would value every dog equally. The UK rescues know that there is a huge problem here & they try to help. A UK rescue would not see a dog as an Irish dog - it's a dog that needs help.
That's why the Dogs Trust were able to spend over €10 million, donated by UK dog lovers, in Dublin. Mr Griffin's comments are incredibly hurtful to the UK & he has made them without a shred of evidence.

Discodog

One other thing that should be clarified. A Pound Keeper has total authority over the running of their Pound. They can refuse to hand over a dog to anyone for any reason. Also a rescue would be obtaining a dog by deception if they did not declare that they were taking the dog on behalf of someone else.

At the end of the day it is a fixed cost per year contract & killing is way cheaper than rehoming.

I would also wonder if the ISPCA are not open to an accusation of misrepresentation when it comes to fund raising. They claim to not kill healthy dogs & some may donate assuming this to be correct. People might feel somewhat aggrieved at the thought of their donation going to an organisation that kills so many dogs.

mosi

ppink wrote: »

so whats wrong with what he says here on the radio?

he said the paper misquoted him which we all know happens too.

He says he was misquoted insofar as he referred to old dogs and crossbreeds rather than "old mongrels"
He does nothing to retract his statements about dogs not being "the prettiest", nor does he address the dog's "value".
He goes on to claim that the ISPCA works with certain rescues, but that others are run by naive people who don't know where the dogs are going. He says dogs could end up in laboratories or in dog fighting but does not appear to have any evidence to back up his claims. I think that he is just trying to avoid the issue of the incredibly high pts rates in ISPCA pounds - I mean are we to believe that rescues are so lax in their rehoming that it is better to euthanise the majority of dogs that go through a pound? A lot of rescues do great work saving dogs from the pounds - I saw my two on the websites of rescues that put details of pound dogs online. He is doing these organisations a great disservice.
He then goes on to say that most of the dogs in the pound have either killed sheep, attacked people or have been found on the side of the road. That's some generalisation. He says that dogs in the pound "by definition, have some issues". How are people supposed to be encouraged to adopt rescues if the head of the ISPCA is saying this? He then goes on to say how people are more than welcome to visit ISPCA pounds and rehome dogs from there - something entirely negated by his prior comments.
I have family who live in the catchment area for an ISPCA pound and they know never to hand a stray in there as it is well known locally that there is little chance of it getting out alive.
I would love to know how, and by whom, Mr Griffin got appointed to the position that he is in, considering that he is clearly uneducated about animal welfare

mosi

From their website. Now excuse me while I fight off my ugly, sheep killing mutts...

ISPCA Statement from Noel Griffin, ISPCA Chief Executive 18th April 2011
I would like to clarify some points made in a recent article and I apologise for any distress caused by certain remarks that were attributed to me.

For the record - we care about all animals and would never infer any animal, dog or otherwise, had no value.

The key point to get across is the Dog Warden Service is a completely separate section of the ISPCA which facilitate stray and/or unwanted dogs. In March this year, almost 600 dogs were taken in by the Dog Warden Service and this is simply a large number to find suitable homes for.

The ISPCA is acutely aware of the intrinsic value of all animals, dogs or otherwise, both pedigree and cross breeds and we do our best for animals in our care at all times. We are all very aware of the enormous value a dog can bring to a home independent of their commercial value and they should be respected and protected accordingly.

The work of the ISPCA is mostly about dealing with cases of animal neglect, cruelty and abuse. Many of the animals in the care of the ISPCA Centre's (as opposed to the dogs in the pounds) stay with us for many months as we work to rehabilitate and responsibly re-home these animals. All dogs re-homed from the ISPCA National Animal Centre are home checked, vaccinated, micro chipped and neutered/spayed.

Some of the dogs in our pounds will have been involved in sheep attacks so the issue of responsibly re-homing them or putting them to sleep will always be a complex one. Certain breeds are easier to find homes for than other, restricted breeds and there are not enough homes to cope with the demand mainly contributed by the recession. It has been our policy for many years that we only send dogs to the UK for re-homing using a number of the rescue groups with which we are familiar as these people have a robust rehoming process. We are happy to continue to do this and indeed to work with other, like minded rescue groups.

We are very happy to continue working with rescue groups with whom we have dealt for many years as we are confident of the fate of the dogs with their welfare in mind. When this is not possible (as we may not know the individual or organisation) it is our belief we should not be pressurised into handing over dogs simply to improve statistics. However, we are very happy to discuss this position with individuals or groups who may be in a position to assist us.

The issues of neutering, dog control and outdated legislation need to be tackled in order to improve the shameful situation of unwanted dogs here in Ireland.


Noel Griffin
ISPCA Chief Executive

wonderfulname

mosi wrote: »

From their website. Now excuse me while I fight off my ugly, sheep killing mutts...

On that point, a sheep killing dog is generally a dead dog. Your dogs are not sheep killers or whatever, they never would have got to you if they were. When I was younger there was tonnes of sheep worrying dogs around, they were destroying herds, one year I'd say over 60% of a relatives lambs were stillborns. A farmer is within their rights to shoot them, I know a lot who did. We didn't, we followed two of them 10-15km home and informed the owner. It turns out we shouldn't have wasted our time, the pound wound up advising that the only measure was to put them down as they'd only continue elsewhere. It makes sense to do that, its a lot crueller to allow them literally scare other animals to death.

Having said that I'd love to see what percentage of dogs put down these ones amount to, I doubt its high enough to merit a mention in that statement, I would also question how that would explain anything. Wicklow has 5 times the number of sheep farms as Westmeath yet Westmeath put down twice as many dogs %wise, those stats actually look good for the ISPCA considering they are running Wicklow pounds and not Westmeath but I'm just pointing out its a bit of a ridiculous thing to bring up, it makes f all sense.

ppink

mosi wrote: »

He says he was misquoted insofar as he referred to old dogs and crossbreeds rather than "old mongrels"
What I heard was he said he was misquoted-not just in reference to one thing
He does nothing to retract his statements about dogs not being "the prettiest", nor does he address the dog's "value".

Not sure what the big deal is here.

He goes on to claim that the ISPCA works with certain rescues, but that others are run by naive people who don't know where the dogs are going.

Again I did not hear this, I heard that ISPCA do work with rescues but he was worried about the dogs going to UK as maybe people were being somewhat naieve in assuming everything was ok over there.

He says dogs could end up in laboratories or in dog fighting but does not appear to have any evidence to back up his claims.

he said this IF it is unknown where they are going-do you think this is not possible?

I think that he is just trying to avoid the issue of the incredibly high pts rates in ISPCA pounds - I mean are we to believe that rescues are so lax in their rehoming that it is better to euthanise the majority of dogs that go through a pound? A lot of rescues do great work saving dogs from the pounds - I saw my two on the websites of rescues that put details of pound dogs online. He is doing these organisations a great disservice.



He then goes on to say that most of the dogs in the pound have either killed sheep, attacked people or have been found on the side of the road.

I heard some dogs not most- which is true is it not?

That's some generalisation. He says that dogs in the pound "by definition, have some issues".

yes he said through abandonment or whatever caused by humans

How are people supposed to be encouraged to adopt rescues if the head of the ISPCA is saying this? He then goes on to say how people are more than welcome to visit ISPCA pounds and rehome dogs from there - something entirely negated by his prior comments.

Honestly the discussion has been had here before on boards, it is all very well telling someone go to the pound or rescue but there are many people who would not be able for some of the issues that come with SOME of these dogs.

I have family who live in the catchment area for an ISPCA pound and they know never to hand a stray in there as it is well known locally that there is little chance of it getting out alive.
I would love to know how, and by whom, Mr Griffin got appointed to the position that he is in, considering that he is clearly uneducated about animal welfare

just to be clear I have no afiliation or contact with the ISPCA or Noel Griffin.....have no idea who he is apart from this.

I am only giving my take on it which seems to be the opposite of others and I am not sure why. Their pound figures are not good at all. Have they been like this just since Noel Griffin took over or always?

One final point on this paper interview. One of my dogs was on a paper once as a rescue. Everybody waited anxiously and excited waiting for the article to come out and the only thing that was right on that article was her photo!!!! the name, age, condition, what happened.............all totally wrong. Not a little wrong but totally wrong!!! All added to make a boring piece for Joe Soap turn into an exciting article.
Maybe that is why I am a sceptic and went more for the radio interview.

ISDW

wonderfulname wrote: »

On that point, a sheep killing dog is generally a dead dog. Your dogs are not sheep killers or whatever, they never would have got to you if they were. When I was younger there was tonnes of sheep worrying dogs around, they were destroying herds, one year I'd say over 60% of a relatives lambs were stillborns. A farmer is within their rights to shoot them, I know a lot who did. We didn't, we followed two of them 10-15km home and informed the owner. It turns out we shouldn't have wasted our time, the pound wound up advising that the only measure was to put them down as they'd only continue elsewhere. It makes sense to do that, its a lot crueller to allow them literally scare other animals to death.

Having said that I'd love to see what percentage of dogs put down these ones amount to, I doubt its high enough to merit a mention in that statement, I would also question how that would explain anything. Wicklow has 5 times the number of sheep farms as Westmeath yet Westmeath put down twice as many dogs %wise, those stats actually look good for the ISPCA considering they are running Wicklow pounds and not Westmeath but I'm just pointing out its a bit of a ridiculous thing to bring up, it makes f all sense.

I'm sorry, but thats not true, I have one dog here that has killed sheep. It was totally his owners fault, keeping a husky in a garden with a fence about 3 foot high. Dogs that worry sheep can be rehomed, as long as it is to a responsible owner, who keeps them secure. There don't tend to be many sheep in urban areas, so dogs can rehomed to towns or cities. As you obviously know, dogs can kill sheep purely by chasing them, it doesn't mean that dog is going to attack every small furry or wooly thing it sees, the chase instinct is very high when a whole pack of animals starts running away from the dog, doesn't make it an evil animal. Even if a dog kills a sheep by biting it, it doesn't mean it has 'turned' and will then savage everything it sees because its got the taste for blood - something a Gard told a dog owner that rang me.

wonderfulname

I didn't say they couldn't be rehomed, just that in my experience they generally aren't.

seamus

Nice backtracking attempt by Griffin.

"the Dog Warden Service is a completely separate section of the ISPCA
....
The ISPCA is acutely aware of the intrinsic value of all animals"

Sorry Noel, but these two statements don't gel. The ISPCA can't claim to value all animals on one hand and then on the other operate warden services which are little better than slaughterhouses in the volume of dogs they destroy.

If nothing else it shows that there's some fundamental internal inconsistency in the way the organisation is governed. You're either for animals or you're not.


The DSPCA issued a statement yesterday firmly disassociating themselves from the ISPCA, though it's mainly just PR rather than a condemnation;
http://www.dspca.ie/cat_news_detail.jsp?itemID=1731

Shenshen

Discodog wrote: »

Any animal lover British or Irish would value every dog equally. The UK rescues know that there is a huge problem here & they try to help. A UK rescue would not see a dog as an Irish dog - it's a dog that needs help.
That's why the Dogs Trust were able to spend over €10 million, donated by UK dog lovers, in Dublin. Mr Griffin's comments are incredibly hurtful to the UK & he has made them without a shred of evidence.

I think the fact that cute dogs are generally easier to re-home is quite enough evidence for Mr Griffin's remarks, to be honest.

I don't know what his personal opinion on dogs may be, but you can't hang him for stating an obvious fact, can you?
And to paint him as an evil dog-hater for wondering why there would be such a demand in one country for dogs that couldn't be re-homed in another is rather disingenuous as well.

ISDW

Shenshen wrote: »

I think the fact that cute dogs are generally easier to re-home is quite enough evidence for Mr Griffin's remarks, to be honest.

I don't know what his personal opinion on dogs may be, but you can't hang him for stating an obvious fact, can you?
And to paint him as an evil dog-hater for wondering why there would be such a demand in one country for dogs that couldn't be re-homed in another is rather disingenuous as well.

But beauty is in the eye of the beholder - a cute dog to one person isn't a cute dog to another. Sorry to offend people now, and I know I will, but I don't like the look of Staffies and other bull breeds, but a lot of posters on here think they are the cutest dog in the world. (I have nothing whatsoever against them, I just prefer a different look in a dog) So please define a cute dog.

He is the CEO of an organisation supposedly there to protect dogs and look after their welfare, so his comments have to be taken in that context. If he was in a different profession and said this, then it obviously would be a different story and people wouldn't be so irate about it.

theg81der

Maybe this man is just awake to the realities of life? I would prefer to be peacefully put down than to be sent to the UK for a starter for a fight, which is probably the reality of what is happening to these dogs (rehomed my arse). Disgusting horrible situation, very disturbing the lack of value that is placed in animals but that doesn`t make this man disgusting we don`t know him we only know he made what I would consider to be a very reality based statement.

ISDW

theg81der wrote: »

Maybe this man is just awake to the realities of life? I would prefer to be peacefully put down than to be sent to the UK for a starter for a fight, which is probably the reality of what is happening to these dogs (rehomed my arse). Disgusting horrible situation, very disturbing the lack of value that is placed in animals but that doesn`t make this man disgusting we don`t know him we only know he made what I would consider to be a very reality based statement.

How do you know its reality? I have sent dogs to the UK, I can tell you exactly where every one of them is now. Are you seriously suggesting that the Dogs Trust allow dogs to be used for fighting?

seamus

theg81der wrote: »

Maybe this man is just awake to the realities of life? I would prefer to be peacefully put down than to be sent to the UK for a starter for a fight, which is probably the reality of what is happening to these dogs (rehomed my arse).

Why would an agency go to the trouble and expense of rescuing dogs, only to transport them blindly into the UK?

In fact, I would say his comments pertain to a tiny minority of Irish rescues who send their dogs off into the unknown. Most agencies would strongly evaluate a UK partner before they consider sending their dogs off to them.

The legislation and statutory bodies which exist in the UK mean that it's much harder to operate dodgy services and any dog shipped off to the UK is de facto more likely to be treated with respect, because they simply have more respect for animals in the UK, dogs in particular.

What he has actually done is accuse pretty much every Irish rescue and a large number of UK rescues of mistreating animals, in a dispicable attempt to justify his own organisation's blatantly hypocritical operations.

Discodog

I sought some clarification from the Dogs Trust & got a rapid reply as usual. The CEO of the Dogs Trust does her email at 6 am !

Dear Peter

We too were a little stunned by the content of the publicity put out by the ISPCA. Our Executive Director in Ireland, Mark Beazley has, of course, been in touch with Mr Griffin who assures him that he was mis-quoted. I fear a lot of damage done and our Irish centre has been inundated with queries.

Last year we rehomed over 1,000 dogs in Ireland (307 so far this year), we transfer around 1,000 dogs but these largely come directly from the pounds or smaller rescue charities not via our centre. 70% of the dogs in the Dublin Centre are pound dogs and 250 of those came from ISPCA pounds. So what he was quoted as saying has no basis in fact.

Thank you for your continued interest.

Best wishes

Clarissa

seamus

DD, can you please confirm with Clarissa (and indeed Mark if you've been in touch with him) that she's happy to have private correspondence reproduced publically?

Discodog

seamus wrote: »

DD, can you please confirm with Clarissa (and indeed Mark if you've been in touch with him) that she's happy to have private correspondence reproduced publically?

Yes. Clarissa is OK with me posting DT emails & welcomes the opportunity to clarify issues. I would not reproduce a private email.

Just PM'd you the "authority" from Clarissa.

Tranceypoo

theg81der wrote: »

Maybe this man is just awake to the realities of life? I would prefer to be peacefully put down than to be sent to the UK for a starter for a fight, which is probably the reality of what is happening to these dogs (rehomed my arse). Disgusting horrible situation, very disturbing the lack of value that is placed in animals but that doesn`t make this man disgusting we don`t know him we only know he made what I would consider to be a very reality based statement.

Sorry, have you got any evidence or experience to back up your statement that dogs being sent to the UK for bait fighting is 'probably the reality of what is happening'?? There are a lot of posters on here who run rescues or are involved in some way through volunteering etc (myself included in that second one), the hard cold truth is that Ireland has a shameful lack of animal welfare laws and peoples general attitude to dogs is pretty awful and dogs have far more chance of getting a good home in the UK or somewhere else in Europe. The rescues here deal regularly with UK and other European rescues and establish relationships, they don't just ship a load of dogs over and hope for the best, why go through all the hard work and expense of rescuing, neutering, chipping, vaccinating not to mention the daily walking, cleaning out, spending time with each dog, it's a thankless task and as I mentioned before, Irish rescues rarely make any money at all from sending dogs overseas, in fact they would lose money as they would have to pay for all the above before the dog was sent over. Honestly, if you have first hand experience of a dog being sent to the UK by an Irish rescue and being used for baiting I would be very interested to hear it.

By the way ISDW, I was about to post the same thing about 'cute dogs', one mans cute is another mans ugly, I don't think my 2 would win any beauty contests but to me they are both gorgeous!!

Mrsbrady

Unbelievable, i HOPE this guys words were taken out of context. would definitely like to read the whole article!
Watched a programme on The Ugliest Dog in the World competition last week, some of them were so ugly the were cute and as you say... beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

mosi

On the radio, he did say "most" of these dogs have issues. However, I think the general gist of everything he said has been so bad that we don't need to get into the semantics.
However, I did forget to mention that when he was blathering on about reponsible rehoming, he implied that rehoming a collie to an urban area is not responsible. Hmm, I tell that to my neighbour when I next see her and her collie practicing agility in the park.
Regarding sheep, a dog can only harrass sheep if it is allowed to do so through owners allowing the dog to roam or otherwise be off a lead around livestock. This is not a reason to pts.
Griffin is just trying to make excuses. The stats in the 80+% range are especially horrific and simply point to there being no effort put to rehoming.

EGAR

WHAT a difference a single person can make, negatively as Mr. ex banker Griffin or positively as the lovely lady who now works in Laois Pound and gives up her evenings etc to post the dogs on FB, phones rescues etc to get them out. Laois Pound figures will look totally different next year and it's all due to one person's commitment.

I wish Mr. Griffin had such commitment.

And let's not forget that Mark Beazley used to be CEO of the ISPCA .

maura rua

Noel Griffin was recruited into the ISPCA to put it on a sound financial footing. I was in contact previously with him, enquiring why certain rescues were charged €25 per dog to take out dogs from Wicklow Pound while others were not charged. He declined to answer.
The same rescues are now no longer permitted to take dogs out from this pound. He didn't explain that either. Many dogs have died as a direct result. Both of these rescues are reputable organisations with extensive rehoming experience - both here and abroad.
Better to die in Ireland than rehome in England -ISPCA policy.

There are 61 million people in the Uk.There are 4 million in Ireland.
Naturally there are more homes across the water.
I have been involved with rescues on both sides and I prefer to rehome in the Uk. I specialise in older dogs or dogs with special needs, they are almost impossible to rehome here but much in demand there. No one puts a dog on transport and sends it into the blue yonder.
Extensive work is done beforehand to ensure a rescue place.
Noel Griffin knows nothing of the reality of rescue. His comments are a disgrace but indicitive of the backward mentality pervasive in this organisation.
Most pound dogs are perfectly ordinary dogs, in a pound through no fault of their own. I have dealt with hundreds of pound dogs, every single one of them without exception was worthy of rescue and deserved to live.
Every dog should have it's day - take note ISPCA!
Noel Griffin talks about responsible rehoming yet rehomes dogs from wicklow pound, unneutered, unvacinated, no home check to anyone with €25 in their fist.
And then talks about educating the public.......

theg81der

Look I wish the world was a lovely place and I wish no dog had to suffer any hardship but have you seen the way people, particularly old people and kids are treated, let alone dogs?

I find it so difficult to have faith in anything anymore that anyone says, they can say whatever or provide all sorts of figures but figures can lie as easily as people and no one really knows me or you.

Discodog

theg81der wrote: »

I find it so difficult to have faith in anything anymore that anyone says, they can say whatever or provide all sorts of figures but figures can lie as easily as people and no one really knows me or you.

How can the official Pound figures, that are submitted by the Pounds, lie ?. A Pound is not going to over exaggerate the number of dogs that it kills. If there is any untruth it would more likely be that Pounds understate the numbers.

Zapperzy

theg81der wrote: »

Look I wish the world was a lovely place and I wish no dog had to suffer any hardship but have you seen the way people, particularly old people and kids are treated, let alone dogs?

Yes there are people treated appallingly all over the world but this is an animal & pets forum so naturally the main topic of concern here is animals, it doesn't mean people are thought any less of it's just naturally enough people here care about animals and don't like to see animals being killed unnecessarily.

I hope some of the rescues that use the spca name but are unaffiliated with the ispca, such as the dspca, don't lose out on donations over this.