The Wire vs. The Sopranos

Diabhal Beag

After re-watching The Wire recently I love season 2 the most. The Sabotka storyline is a lot stronger than it's given credit for and goes above and beyond what you might expect seeing Nicky, Ziggy and Frank for the first time. Just a phenomenal season. Season 5 was such a letdown though and Soprano's never had the same dip in quality.

Riddle101

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

After re-watching The Wire recently I love season 2 the most. The Sabotka storyline is a lot stronger than it's given credit for and goes above and beyond what you might expect seeing Nicky, Ziggy and Frank for the first time. Just a phenomenal season. Season 5 was such a letdown though and Soprano's never had the same dip in quality.

I think the reason why series 5 was a let down is because Ed Burns left the show after the 4th series. He was a long time creative partner of David Simon.

GerB40

I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if it's been said but although they are both probably the greatest shows on tv I think The Sopranos went a season too long and The Wire was a season too short. With that in mind I'll go for The Wire as the better programme. Just by a fraction though.. Tony Soprano was the most fleshed out character out of both shows but ya can't beat the sound of terrified gang bangers yelling "OMAR COMIN!!"..

GerB40

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

After re-watching The Wire recently I love season 2 the most. The Sabotka storyline is a lot stronger than it's given credit for and goes above and beyond what you might expect seeing Nicky, Ziggy and Frank for the first time. Just a phenomenal season. Season 5 was such a letdown though and Soprano's never had the same dip in quality.

Ziggy is the most annoying character I've ever seen. Absolute gobshyte. When I first saw the second season I hated it but you're right, after a second or third viewing it's much easier to appreciate how good it actually is..

BUNK1982

Riddle101 wrote: »

I think the reason why series 5 was a let down is because Ed Burns left the show after the 4th series. He was a long time creative partner of David Simon.

Season 5 did veer into absurd territory with the whole

homeless serial killer thing

and maybe wasn't as gripping as say the end of 3 but at the same time it fits perfectly into the overall story.

Goes to show that things move in cycles and what goes up must come down. That and the way the modern media keeps the whole thing going.

BUNK1982

BTW - i cannot and would never even try call it between the two. As far as I'm concerned they're both perfect!

Breaking Bad comes in third - not by a distance but definitely behind them.

Penn

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

After re-watching The Wire recently I love season 2 the most. The Sabotka storyline is a lot stronger than it's given credit for and goes above and beyond what you might expect seeing Nicky, Ziggy and Frank for the first time. Just a phenomenal season. Season 5 was such a letdown though and Soprano's never had the same dip in quality.

Frank Sobotka is one of my favourite TV characters ever. Such great acting with a great story. Season 2 was fantastic.

BUNK1982

Penn wrote: »

Frank Sobotka is one of my favourite TV characters ever. Such great acting with a great story. Season 2 was fantastic.

A proper tragic hero - the fall of the American working man.

Season 2 is my favourite as well.

K4t

Hobbes wrote: »

I would throw "The Shield" into that group as well. Possibly one of the best endings for a series ever.

Edal wrote: »

I'd throw it straight back out.

Brilliant. Beat me to it. (The Shield is very watchable admittedly)

8-10 wrote: »

Best thing about the Wire is how every character has a name that works really well for a pet. Next time you get a new pet try it out.

Immediately regretting not naming my well fed cat Slim Charles.


Both masterpieces. Both easily in my top 5 shows ever which includes Deadwood and True Detective. However, The Wire is a clear number 1. It's too important not to be. The Wire is life, from all perspectives. It truly is all encompassing. We will see the like of The Sopranos again, in fact I'm pretty sure we have already in Boardwalk Empire, but I am not so positive we will see anything like The Wire again.

BUNK1982

K4t wrote: »

However, The Wire is a clear number 1. It's too important not to be. The Wire is life, from all perspectives.

And the fact that the Wire aims to be all encompassing and succeeds!

With the Soprano's the show is built around one man and then we get references to wider social and political issues, it works really well but from the outset you know that Tony is the main character.

The Wire doesn't have a main character except for Baltimore really.

makehimanoffer

Sopranos is my favourite TV show. I love hating AJ Soprano, Tony at times, having a love-hate with Paulie, and so on. Things are just so good. The ending was amazingly shot. Everything, so good.

Series two of The Wire has always been what I consider the finest series of television ever made. It's just perfect and I always find it funny that so many write it off the first time they watch it before coming back years later and realising how good it is.

The Wire was adult television from a time before adult TV had to be all about the sex and violence. I really want to like Game of Thrones but the constant stream of sex and violence is unnecessary and detracts from what's going on. A show such as Longmire id far more adult than GoT simply because it never relies of gratuitous sex or violence but can still explore dark and adult themes and issues.

Anyone who has yet to watch Oz should get around to it sooner rather than later. It's perhaps the most important series ever produced and without it we would not have TV as we know it today. I'd put Oz up there with The Wire, it really is that good and has the single greatest musical episode of any show.

Conorrr123

the Wire

Mardy Bum

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone who has yet to watch Oz should get around to it sooner rather than later. It's perhaps the most important series ever produced and without it we would not have TV as we know it today. I'd put Oz up there with The Wire, it really is that good and has the single greatest musical episode of any show.

I 100% agree with the beginning of your paragraph but any episode of Treme outdoes any diegetic or non diegetic sound in any tv drama.

Mardy Bum

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I 100% agree with the beginning of your paragraph but any episode of Treme outdoes any diegetic or non diegetic sound in any tv drama.

I was referring not to the music used but rather the musical episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPxE1aOiBNM

Right Turn Clyde

GerB40 wrote: »

I think The Sopranos went a season too long

I think certain aspects of The Sopranos ran for too long, especially Tony's sessions with Dr. Melfi, but I wouldn't say it was a season too long. I'm not directing this at your personally, but I think this is a criticism that's grown legs in recent years, despite having very little substance.

GerB40 wrote: »

The Wire was a season too short

Now this is very strange. I think it's generally accepted that season 5 of The Wire is rubbish. In terms of quality control it would have been better had it ended after season 4. Personally, I'd prefer a show to end unfinished than to dip in quality. Deadwood ended with a lot of loose ends, but it didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. As much as I love the The Wire, I can't think of it without imagining season 5 hanging around like a cloud of green cartoon smoke, stinking the place up.

Effects

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone who has yet to watch Oz should get around to it sooner rather than later. I'd put Oz up there with The Wire, it really is that good and has the single greatest musical episode of any show.

Really? Best musical episode? That's like eating a turd and saying it's the best tasting turd there is.

Effects

Effects wrote: »

Really? Best musical episode? That's like eating a turd and saying it's the best tasting turd there is.

Nothing wrong with musicals, in fact one of the more enjoyable new shows of the year is a bright and breezy musical called Galavant.

Diabhal Beag

Penn wrote: »

Frank Sobotka is one of my favourite TV characters ever. Such great acting with a great story. Season 2 was fantastic.

Himself and Clay Davis really are my two favourites. Both actors just knock it out of the park on a top 3 all time show. Clay Davis is the shining light of the last season.

Mardy Bum

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

Now this is very strange. I think it's generally accepted that season 5 of The Wire is rubbish. In terms of quality control it would have been better had it ended after season 4. Personally, I'd prefer a show to end unfinished than to dip in quality. Deadwood ended with a lot of loose ends, but it didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth. As much as I love the The Wire, I can't think of it without imagining season 5 hanging around like a cloud of green cartoon smoke, stinking the place up.

Season 5 is just as good as the rest. The reason people didn't like it was because of its focus on the media which to some was boring but it was actually very insightful.

Lukker-

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Season 5 is just as good as the rest. The reason people didn't like it was because of its focus on the media which to some was boring but it was actually very insightful.

It was a bit far-fetched compared to the rest of the seasons.

I don't think it's David Simon's fault though, he was promised 13 episodes for the final season but HBO cut it to ten.

Everything felt a bit rushed. It was still tied up nicely, but it's the weakest of them all IMO.

Season 4 was my favorite the first time around, but Season 2 might be for my second viewing. Everything just makes more sense the second time around. The first time you watch it you are wondering why the big change but after seeing it again you see it's the foundation for the the rest of the story.

The Black Oil

I'm waiting for the postman to deliver the Oz boxset. Interested to see what one of HBO's earliest shows is like.

Re The Wire, two words for season 2 - Frank Sabotka. Season 5's journalism focus didn't bother me, McNulty's antics on the other hand...

K4t

The Black Oil wrote: »

Re The Wire, two words for season 2 - Frank Sabotka. Season 5's journalism focus didn't bother me, McNulty's antics on the other hand...

They kind of sacrificed McNulty's character to show just how f**ked up and corrupt the city was, and how the media who were supposed to be investigating and exposing such practices were implicit in it. Season 5 attempted to be more entertaining and go out with a bang, but what it really showed is that corruption and greed won in the end. McNulty/Freamon/Daniels...Pearlman/Colvin, they tried to make the city a better place, they tried to do good, and they were thwarted throughout each season and ultimately defeated. They couldn't stop the cycle, and in the end they had to be content with the fact that at least they had tried and they would go on to live, peaceful, quiet lives with their loved ones, while nothing really changed. The real villains of The Wire weren't Avon or Stringer or Marlo or Prop Joe, they were Carcetti, Royce, Nerece, Steinhorff, Krawczyk...Burell. I feel season 5 accomplished its goal in portraying that.

edit: How could I forget Clay Davis..sheeeiiiit

BUNK1982

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm waiting for the postman to deliver the Oz boxset. Interested to see what one of HBO's earliest shows is like.

Re The Wire, two words for season 2 - Frank Sabotka. Season 5's journalism focus didn't bother me, McNulty's antics on the other hand...

I thought McNulty's antics were a bit of a stretch but then again is it any different to them juking the stats or hamsterdam in earlier episodes? And it even mirrors what the media do in cheerleading rather than getting to the truth??

Real police like McNulty, Freamon and Daniels are edged out much like real newspaper people like Gus in favour of someone that conforms to a sysytem that demands we do more with less resources.

BUNK1982

I'm a massive Soprano's fan too, just to be clear.

It just seems a tad more polished and luxurious than The Wire which is probably why the latter would edge it for me.

That said there is a lot of depth and meaning in the Sopranos too, you just have to look a bit harder for it. Probably one of the reasons why it had a broader commercial appeal?

The end of Season 2 of the Sopranos with the Rolling Stones song - unreal!

kryogen

Having re watched both shows a few times now I have to say The Wire just gets better and better each viewing, it was just an incredible show, season 4 is still my favourite, I have always thought season 2 was excellent, even first time around and Frank Sobotka has been a hero of mine since. Great performance. Season 5 is still the weak link for me but its more because I don't care that much about the media perspective I think. As a show its still there, certain ludicrous storylines of course, well, one anyway but you get over that and it has one of the funniest opening scenes ever to a show.

I love seeing the development of Michaels character in it. Bill Rawles is one of my favourite characters of all time, the man is the ultimate troll!

What sets it apart from The Sopranos for me is that The Sopranos is very much a POV show, with Tony the main protagonist. The Wire is far more of an ensemble piece which allows it to have so many more layers and character development.

Both have a spot in my top shows, along with The West Wing, Oz and The Shield (which I didn't think I was going to like after a couple of episodes, but it just grew in quality as we went along)

Because of the characters, McNulty, Bunk, Omar, Stringer, Bubbles, Lester, Rawles, Sobotka, Prop joe, Carver, Colvin and so many more The Wire wins for me.

golfball37

Great thread. I would say picking between these is like choosing between your children in terms who is your favourite but the Wire just edges it for me as it spoke more to me from a societal point of view & I was gripped by the whole scale of the story. The Sopranos was slicker, cooler and funnier for the most part but the Wire was more realistic and gripping & had some funny moments too just to tie you over.
I agree with those who say season 5 was not as good as the others, the reporters story never grabbed me in the way the school or the docks did and the serial killer saga damaged its overall USP which was its realism. On the flip side however the Marlo/Prop Joe/Omar thread in season 5 was as good as anything in the previous seasons.
The Sopranos was at its best when it was the boys chewing the fat, discussing business or generally being up to no good. A lot of the family storyline and the Melfi stuff were forgettable. It had some poor episodes thrown in too such as the dream sequence episode.
The wire was brilliant at blurring the lines between good and bad, Bubbles for example is everything society would abhor, a junkie a thief and a layabout. He had more redeeming features in him though than most of the Police officers in the show, same with Prop Joe.
Both shows are 10 out of 10 but when push comes to shove the Wire will never be topped imo.

The Black Oil

BUNK1982 wrote: »

I thought McNulty's antics were a bit of a stretch but then again is it any different to them juking the stats or hamsterdam in earlier episodes? And it even mirrors what the media do in cheerleading rather than getting to the truth??

A stretch for storytelling, or realism? The juking the stats - we've had the penalty points mess, amongst other things. Hamsterdam is probably a harder sell, though it's really a vehicle for Simon and co. to make a point. If you compare it with McNulty in 5, it's two men turning to desperate measures. As for the journalist in 5, I did like how dislikable he was owing to his self-serving antics.

I dunno. I'm just a viewer, I suppose.

daUbiq

TeddyTedson wrote: »

This is going to be locked or moved just to let you know, im a veteran round these parts so i knows;)
Haven't watched either though

You were saying?

Penn

The biggest difference between both shows for me was in The Sopranos, I didn't really like any of the characters. Some of them had their moments, but overall, none of them were really that likable. Which meant I didn't really care if anything happened to them. Whereas with The Wire, I liked almost every character. Regardless of who they were, what they did, good or bad... nearly every character was likable in some way.