Odd Rugby Trivialities

DerTierarzt

Just remembered a year or two back the AIL club final got decided by some mad old ancient rule, can't quite remember it, but something to do with either the alphabet or how many times each team'd beaten each other in the league beforehand? Think it was Shannon and Clontarf?

Podge_irl

Think it was who had scored the first try in the match after it was tied at the end of extra time. Was a hideously unfair way to finish.

Teferi

Why didn't they go for kicks?

Podge_irl

Teferi wrote: »

Why didn't they go for kicks?

Just wasn't in the laws of the competition. I think they just hadn't envisaged the possibility. Amusingly it happened the week or so after the penalties in the HEC semi-final.

tolosenc

I don't like the HEC rule for the end of extra time, ie that the team with more tries over the 100mins wins. It has about as much effect on a teams willingness to score tries as the colour of the paint on the grass. If anything, it'd encourage the team with that lead to just give away penalties in extra-time.

ormond lad

i only agree with the first try rule at underage level where extra time is not allowed but at adult level it should be extra time and if scores are still level sudden death, and then a shootout where only 3 or 5 players and only those 3-5 be allowed take kicks as to stop another martyn williams moment

tolosenc

ormond lad wrote: »

a shootout where only 3 or 5 players and only those 3-5 be allowed take kicks as to stop another martyn williams moment

The problem with that is that most teams have about 4 guys you'd expect to make such a sitter 100% of the time. Take Ireland at the world cup (hypothetically): I'd fancy Sexton/O'Gara, Kearney/Earls, McFadden/D'arcy, O'Driscoll/Wallace to make what is, essentially, a conversion of a try under the posts. You have to bring in the big guys to get people who miss.

Amazotheamazing

tolosenc wrote: »

The problem with that is that most teams have about 4 guys you'd expect to make such a sitter 100% of the time. Take Ireland at the world cup (hypothetically): I'd fancy Sexton/O'Gara, Kearney/Earls, McFadden/D'arcy, O'Driscoll/Wallace to make what is, essentially, a conversion of a try under the posts. You have to bring in the big guys to get people who miss.

Make the kicks harder. You'd expect Geordan Murphy, Tommy Bowe or Paddy Wallace (to use non Leinster/Munster examples) to get a kick in front of the posts so why not move the kick to 5ms from the touchline etc and stick to a pool of nominated kickers.

For example, afaik, in the Munster squad the following players used to be kickers at underage, Deasy, Cusack, O'Gara, O'Leary, Murray, J. Murphy, Warwick, Jones and Leamy (who was meant to be pretty useful).

castie

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Make the kicks harder. You'd expect Geordan Murphy, Tommy Bowe or Paddy Wallace (to use non Leinster/Munster examples) to get a kick in front of the posts so why not move the kick to 5ms from the touchline etc and stick to a pool of nominated kickers.

For example, afaik, in the Munster squad the following players used to be kickers at underage, Deasy, Cusack, O'Gara, O'Leary, Murray, J. Murphy, Warwick, Jones and Leamy (who was meant to be pretty useful).

Youd think so 3:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4KTepNxWNI

bamboozle

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Just remembered a year or two back the AIL club final got decided by some mad old ancient rule, can't quite remember it, but something to do with either the alphabet or how many times each team'd beaten each other in the league beforehand? Think it was Shannon and Clontarf?

i was there cheering on Tarf, it was 19 all at final whistle and referee awarded match after extra time to shannon as they had scored the first try. Desperate way to decide the game especially considering clontarf fans had outnumbered shannon supporters by 3 or 4 to 1.

on an even more interesting note the referee that day was Alain Rolland, the following weekend he refereed Leicester v Cardiff in the HC Semi final which went to extra time and then onto penalty kicks...a few strange weeks for Rollers!

castie

bamboozle wrote: »

i was there cheering on Tarf, it was 19 all at final whistle and referee awarded match after extra time to shannon as they had scored the first try. Desperate way to decide the game especially considering clontarf fans had outnumbered shannon supporters by 3 or 4 to 1.

on an even more interesting note the referee that day was Alain Rolland, the following weekend he refereed Leicester v Cardiff in the HC Semi final which went to extra time and then onto penalty kicks...a few strange weeks for Rollers!

Christ either he was getting overtime or he was thinking "Not this **** again"

DerTierarzt

tolosenc wrote: »

The problem with that is that most teams have about 4 guys you'd expect to make such a sitter 100% of the time. Take Ireland at the world cup (hypothetically): I'd fancy Sexton/O'Gara, Kearney/Earls, McFadden/D'arcy, O'Driscoll/Wallace to make what is, essentially, a conversion of a try under the posts. You have to bring in the big guys to get people who miss.

I would say have three positions for the kicks, centre, left and right. Then do away with the pool of kickers, forcing you to rank your kick takers, and put say O' Gara on the left touchline, Wallace on right, or whatever, you know? Wonder if the rules are like soccer in that only the players on the pitch at full time are the only ones eligible to kick? Is that not the way it would happen under RWC rules, no?

prospect

Back in the late 1800's/early 1900'2 New Zealand did a tour of G.B.

They caused a bit of a stir with their previously unseen performances of the Haka before each match.

When they were due to play Wales, the Welsh captain responded by singing the Welsh national anthem and the crowd joined in.

This was the first time a National Anthem was sung prior to a sporting event.




Now, that's trivial.

DerTierarzt

prospect wrote: »

Back in the late 1800's/early 1900'2 New Zealand did a tour of G.B.

They caused a bit of a stir with their previously unseen performances of the Haka before each match.

When they were due to play Wales, the Welsh captain responded by singing the Welsh national anthem and the crowd joined in.

This was the first time a National Anthem was sung prior to a sporting event.




Now, that's trivial.

Is that actually true? Surely national anthems were being sung in soccer first, no?

Podge_irl

bamboozle wrote: »

on an even more interesting note the referee that day was Alain Rolland, the following weekend he refereed Leicester v Cardiff in the HC Semi final which went to extra time and then onto penalty kicks...a few strange weeks for Rollers!

Was it not the other way round? I remember everyone expecting a penalty shoot-out having seen it in the HEC and being exceedingly confused when Shannon were declared winners.

hardCopy

Podge_irl wrote: »

Was it not the other way round? I remember everyone expecting a penalty shoot-out having seen it in the HEC and being exceedingly confused when Shannon were declared winners.

Yep, although the stadium announcer did announce the rule at full time when we were waiting for extra time to start.

DerTierarzt

What's the protocol now, extra time, then whoever scored most tries, if that's equal then whoever finished higher in league or does it go to penalties?

DerTierarzt

I remember one of the coolest things about rugby was the alternate jersey rule, harking back to the old days where if the visiting team had the same colour tops, the home team went back to their wives and got a different colour.

As far as I can ascertain, this rule only applies to international matches now. Sometimes not even, as was the case with last November's match against South Africa just so we could don a shoddy cotton centenary jersey.

In other competitions soccer-style rules are employed, but was it ever the case in either the H-Cup or Celtic/Magners League that the home team had to wear an alternate jersey where there was a colour clash?

Sometimes it makes no sense regardless, such as when Munster played Cardiff Blues last. Cardiff have a home blue jersey, Munster obviously red, so no clash, right? But Cardiff wore their pink alternate and Munster their black alternate jersey? Even though if Cardiff felt compelled to wear their alternate, surely Munster's red home jersey wouldn't've been that much of a clash?

CatFromHue

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Sometimes it makes no sense regardless, such as when Munster played Cardiff Blues last. Cardiff have a home blue jersey, Munster obviously red, so no clash, right? But Cardiff wore their pink alternate and Munster their black alternate jersey? Even though if Cardiff felt compelled to wear their alternate, surely Munster's red home jersey wouldn't've been that much of a clash?

the only reason i can think of this is that the pink cardiff jersey could be viewed as an attack on the eyes. munster not wanting cardiff to have an unfair advantage wore a jersey that was equally offensive to the eyes.

B0X

I think in the world cup if it goes through extra time with both teams on equal points/tries it goes to a drop goal competition between the outhalves.

Podge_irl

I'm pretty sure the teams are contracted to wear their "away" jersey a certain number of times, and even a third jersey now so they can sell more of them.

I was under the impression in the world cup it was a penalty kick off, but with each penalty from a different place.

tolosenc

Each team should nominate a kicker and have them play HORSE... (call it RUGBY to get past linguistic issues)

Downtime

Podge_irl wrote: »

Was it not the other way round? I remember everyone expecting a penalty shoot-out having seen it in the HEC and being exceedingly confused when Shannon were declared winners.

The funny thing is that the rules for the competition are published on the IRFU website at the start of every year and people were confused on the last day. Each club gets the handbook and the referee and club officials are emailed a few days before the final to clarify.

Guy:Incognito

Edit.

DerTierarzt

Drop kick competition would be class, but I think it does go to penalty kicks. From various positions would be best...

DerTierarzt

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Edit.

Edit what?

Clareman

I like the fact that you can get a try without crossing the try line in so many different ways

Penalty try
Base of the post
On the line
On the ref's foot (long shot I know)

DerTierarzt

Clareman wrote: »

I like the fact that you can get a try without crossing the try line in so many different ways

Penalty try
Base of the post
On the line
On the ref's foot (long shot I know)

Yeah I know, I always wondered why people don't just tap it off the padding around the posts more often if they're clear through...

kensutz

It needs to be the base of the padding and not just a tap on any part of it.

Guy:Incognito

kensutz wrote: »

It needs to be the base of the padding and not just a tap on any part of it.

Does it though? It's been a while since i read my laws book but afair it doesnt specify the base.

Clareman wrote: »

On the ref's foot (long shot I know)

Anywhere on the pitch you like?

kensutz

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does it though? It's been a while since i read my laws book but afair it doesnt specify the base.

Yes it has to be the base. David McHugh told us that.

Podge_irl

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Does it though? It's been a while since i read my laws book but afair it doesnt specify the base.

It has to touch both the padding and the ground as far as I recall.

Guy:Incognito

kensutz wrote: »

Yes it has to be the base. David McHugh told us that.

`
i've always been told that by refs alright.

Just checked the laws again.

22.4 OTHER WAYS TO SCORE A TRY
(a) Grounded on the goal line. The goal line is part of the in-goal. If an attacking player is first
to ground the ball on the opponents’ goal line, a try is scored.
(b) Grounded against a goal post. The goal posts and padding surrounding them are part of
the goal line, which is part of in-goal. If an attacking player is first to ground the ball against
a goal post or padding, a try is scored.


The word ground in therewould suggest it has to be at the base alright.

DerTierarzt

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

`
i've always been told that by refs alright.

Just checked the laws again.

22.4 OTHER WAYS TO SCORE A TRY
(a) Grounded on the goal line. The goal line is part of the in-goal. If an attacking player is first
to ground the ball on the opponents’ goal line, a try is scored.
(b) Grounded against a goal post. The goal posts and padding surrounding them are part of
the goal line, which is part of in-goal. If an attacking player is first to ground the ball against
a goal post or padding, a try is scored.


The word ground in therewould suggest it has to be at the base alright.

It would be pretty hilarious to just casually tap it against the posts though!

Monty Burnz

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The word ground in therewould suggest it has to be at the base alright.

I don't understand why nobody has ever taken advantage of this and mauled towards he posts - with the padding, the post must be at least a foot wide. You couldn't get anyone behind it to get under the ball, it would be more or less indefensible.

castie

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't understand why nobody has ever taken advantage of this and mauled towards he posts - with the padding, the post must be at least a foot wide. You couldn't get anyone behind it to get under the ball, it would be more or less indefensible.

Wouldnt you first have to drive the opposition threw the post so you could get to it? And then somehow get the ball at the back to the level of the posts.

tolosenc

I've seen it a few times where there was a ruck right beside the post and the SH didn't think to touch it down...

Monty Burnz

tolosenc wrote: »

I've seen it a few times where there was a ruck right beside the post and the SH didn't think to touch it down...

That's exactly the situation I had in mind.

crisco10

I remember felipe doing it. He was being tackled and was never going to reach the line but he managed to ground it in front of the post against the pad. Clever work.

Frank Spencer

Clareman wrote: »

I like the fact that you can get a try without crossing the try line in so many different ways

Penalty try
Base of the post
On the line
On the ref's foot (long shot I know)

How does this work?

Monty Burnz

Frank Spencer wrote: »

How does this work?

Presumably it counts only if the ref is standing in the goal area.

durkadurka

It wold be pretty funny if it counted elsewhere

Monty Burnz

durkadurka wrote: »

It wold be pretty funny if it counted elsewhere

It would certainly change the game as a spectacle: the team with the ball would be chasing the ref around the pitch, and the defending team would have to form a bodyguard around him. Perhaps the most radical reshaping of a game since this episode in a soccer match a few years back:

It concerns a match played between Barbados and Grenada in cup competition.

Barbados needed to win the game by two clear goals in order to progress to the next round. Now the trouble was caused by a daft rule in the competition which stated that in the event of a game going to penalty kicks, the winner of the penalty kicks would be awarded a 2-0 victory.

With 5 minutes to go, Barbados were leading 2-1, and going out of the tournament (because they needed to win by 2 clear goals). Then, when they realized they were probably not going to score against Grenada's massed defence, they turned round, and deliberately scored on their own goal to level the scores and take the game into penalties. Grenada, themselves not being stupid, realized what was going on, and then attempted to score an own goal themselves. However, the Barbados players started defending their opponents goal to prevent this.

In the last five minutes, spectators were treated to the incredible sight of both team's defending their opponents goal against attackers desperately trying to score an own goal and goalkeepers trying to throw the ball into their own net. The game went to penalties, which Barbados won and so were awarded a 2-0 victory and progressed to the next round.

http://www.snopes.com/sports/soccer/barbados.asp

pajunior

Please tell me there is a video of that somewhere.

durkadurka

There's a brief video on The link.

DerTierarzt

durkadurka wrote: »

It wold be pretty funny if it counted elsewhere

Can you imagine! Trying to chase the ref's bootlaces!

Guy:Incognito

I smell an ELV.

DerTierarzt

In my head I've a vague recollection of the kicker for Japan being their prop at one point or another, does anyone have any examples of similarly unusual kickers for teams?

Monty Burnz

I mentioned recently watching Anthony Foley take the place kicks for St. Munchins in the Munster Schools competitions back in the day. Does that count? Actually he took the kicks to touch too.

tolosenc

I am/was a backrower and scored a game winning drop goal at u-16 level, that count? (I did get laps for trying it, though)

Gracelessly Tom

DerTierarzt wrote: »

In my head I've a vague recollection of the kicker for Japan being their prop at one point or another, does anyone have any examples of similarly unusual kickers for teams?

John Eales kicked for Australia on a fair few occasions and was a very good kicker in fairness. They nicknamed him "Nobody" as in "nobody's perfect".