Placebo fraud

whiteonion

http://www.annals.org/content/153/8/532.abstract
You hear frequently about "medical research" being done where they say pill X performs much better than placebo, but what if all this medical research is just a big fraud?

In the reports being released they don't have to tell what the actual placebo is. The placebo itself can affect the outcome of the clinical trials.
http://www.naturalnews.com/030209_placebo_medical_fraud.html
http://www.annals.org/content/153/8/532.abstract

Conventional medicine is all a big fraud.

Retrovertigo

Very interesting.

Now go outside and enjoy the sunshine.

enda1

If it wasn't for conventional medicine, I would now be in total kidney failure and die of blood poisoning. So in as kind a manner as I can manage,
OP,
Go fuck yourself

Mod
User Banned.

Captain_Generic

Retrovertigo wrote: »

Very interesting.

Now go outside and enjoy the sunshine.

Forget the suncream, its all a big conspiracy, there's no such thing as skin cancer

Sonics2k

Captain_Generic wrote: »

Forget the suncream, its all a big conspiracy, there's no such thing as skin cancer

The Sun itself is part of the conspiracy!

whiteonion

enda1 wrote: »

If it wasn't for conventional medicine, I would now be in total kidney failure and die of blood poisoning. So in as kind a manner as I can manage,
OP,
Go fuck yourself

Did you even bother reading the articles?

Joey the lips

I agree with the OP. Dr Richard Kimble discovered that they switched the samples. Provasic was not the wonder drug and there really was a man with a mechanical arm.

:pac:

pow wow

whiteonion wrote: »

Did you even bother reading the articles?

Do you ever bother starting threads about things that aren't some corporate conspiracy in your head?

smk89

The more you know

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfRVCaA5o18

kieran26

There is a conspiracy theory forum for a reason OP! (winky face)

scum01

that is slightly worrying, but at the same time all it really means is that the drugs are slightly less effective than what was previously thought?

once the drugs are doing what it says on the tin who really cares?

whiteonion

This is not a conspiracy theory it's a fact.

Donny5

enda1 wrote: »

If it wasn't for conventional medicine, I would now be in total kidney failure and die of blood poisoning. So in as kind a manner as I can manage,
OP,
Go fuck yourself

You know, I don't agree with the Op's nutcasery, but there is a lot of obfuscation and poor research methadology in a lot of the Big Pharma studies. It's not, at least not in my opinion, a conspiracy, but it is the profit motivation making itself felt in the sciences.

It's almost expected, to be honest. The pharmaceutical companies exist to generate profit, and, like man industries, that's doesn't always lead to the best outcomes for their customers, but there's also government failures here. Research should be repeatable, but clinical trials are very expensive, and no one in the private sector can afford to rerun them just to check results, but government could. A Europe-wide collaboration could make it almost affrodable, too, and would root out a lot of junk science in the medical field.

Conventional medicine is all a big fraud eh?

Let's take a minute to consider what we are referring to when we say "conventional medicine".

It consists of treatments that have been shown to be effective. If a new treatment comes along and can be shown to be effective it becomes a part of conventional medicine.

Treatments that cannot be shown to be effective are left outside and form what we call "alternative medicine".

Now remind us which one is the big fraud?

dvpower

whiteonion wrote: »

Conventional medicine is all a big fraud.

whiteonion wrote: »

This is not a conspiracy theory it's a fact.

'course it is.;)

Super-Rush

Moved from After Hours.

upandcumming

OP, your threads, as well as UsernameInUse's, need to be moderated before being allowed to go up.

Donny5

enda1 wrote: »

If it wasn't for conventional medicine, I would now be in total kidney failure and die of blood poisoning. So in as kind a manner as I can manage,
OP,
Go fuck yourself

You know, I don't agree with the Op's nutcasery, but there is a lot of obfuscation and poor research methadology in a lot of the Big Pharma studies. It's not, at least not in my opinion, a conspiracy, but it is the profit motivation making itself felt in the sciences.

It's almost expected, to be honest. The pharmaceutical companies exist to generate profit, and, like man industries, that's doesn't always lead to the best outcomes for their customers, but there's also government failures here. Research should be repeatable, but clinical trials are very expensive, and no one in the private sector can afford to rerun them just to check results, but government could. A Europe-wide collaboration could make it almost affrodable, too, and would root out a lot of junk science in the medical field.

fontanalis

When someone used the prefix big for their bogeyman of choice, it's usually a sign to ignore them.

Donny5

fontanalis wrote: »

When someone used the prefix big for their bogeyman of choice, it's usually a sign to ignore them.

You are an idiot. Big Pharma is a synonym for the pharmaceutical lobby.

Talk E

Onion has a point....

A senior executive with Britain's biggest drugs company has admitted that most prescription medicines do not work on most people who take them.
Allen Roses, worldwide vice-president of genetics at GlaxoSmithKline (GSK), said fewer than half of the patients prescribed some of the most expensive drugs actually derived any benefit from them.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1208-02.htm

whiteonion

"Five out of six approved drugs offer "few if any new benefits" to patients, according to a leading critic of the pharmaceutical industry. " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7950612/Five-out-of-six-new-prescription-drugs-dont-work-doctor-claims.html The facts are obvious that the drugs don't work and the reason that these drugs get good results in clinical trials is because of pure fraud such as using a placebo that will change the outcome of the trial. Why are people so blind? Why do they trust Big Pharma to act in their best interests? With people being so stupid it's no wonder that Ireland is going down the toilet.

Talk E

It's gone quiet in here all of a pudding.

smk89

whiteonion wrote: »

"Five out of six approved drugs offer "few if any new benefits" to patients, according to a leading critic of the pharmaceutical industry. " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7950612/Five-out-of-six-new-prescription-drugs-dont-work-doctor-claims.html The facts are obvious that the drugs don't work and the reason that these drugs get good results in clinical trials is because of pure fraud such as using a placebo that will change the outcome of the trial. Why are people so blind? Why do they trust Big Pharma to act in their best interests? With people being so stupid it's no wonder that Ireland is going down the toilet.

Do you really trust the telegraph over say a peer reviewed source? The "leading critic of the pharmaceutical industry" you mention in the article is a professor of sociology! Sociology is the study of society not drug interaction.

The article was written by Stephen Adams a journalist whose used to write for the arts section of the paper. Hardly a qualified source.
Call me a square but I think I'll trust the doctor and my own judgement.

33

People underestimate the inbuilt immune system, some drugs do save lives, some make people worse and dependant for the rest of their lives.
Drugs are over prescribed and pushed on people, and totally over used and over prescribed, such as antibiotics which have created superbugs which are immune to the drugs.
With the ever increasing amount of wonder drugs being invented and pushed by above the law drug pushers will lead to more disease and superbugs.
Everybody has the right to choose whether to take them or not, but people should be aware of the fact that without sickness the pharmacutical companies would be out of business, thats a big no,no in any business.

It's a similar situation to computer antivirus creators, they create the majority of computer virus's, thats business and the pharmacutical business aint any different.

Some drugs are nesessary to heal, but the dangers of most illnesses are hyped up and the body with adequate nutrition, vitamins, minerals and exercise can and does fight almost all illnesses much more effective than any drug, nature has everything required, but big business will rubbish any alternative treatment.

Ignorance is big businesses best friend.

33

I cant thank any posts but there are a few that I would have.

upandcumming

33 wrote: »

People underestimate the inbuilt immune system, some drugs do save lives, some make people worse and dependant for the rest of their lives.
Drugs are over prescribed and pushed on people, and totally over used and over prescribed, such as antibiotics which have created superbugs which are immune to the drugs.
With the ever increasing amount of wonder drugs being invented and pushed by above the law drug pushers will lead to more disease and superbugs.
Everybody has the right to choose whether to take them or not, but people should be aware of the fact that without sickness the pharmacutical companies would be out of business, thats a big no,no in any business.

It's a similar situation to computer antivirus creators, they create the majority of computer virus's, thats business and the pharmacutical business aint any different.

Some drugs are nesessary to heal, but the dangers of most illnesses are hyped up and the body with adequate nutrition, vitamins, minerals and exercise can and does fight almost all illnesses much more effective than any drug, nature has everything required, but big business will rubbish any alternative treatment.

Ignorance is big businesses best friend.

It is the overuse of antibiotics that lead to immunity.

And the bit about the Anti-Virus creators is crap.

33

upandcumming wrote: »

It is the overuse of antibiotics that lead to immunity.

And the bit about the Anti-Virus creators is crap.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, your first line is correct, a runny nose can lead to a course of antibiotics by a doctor, which is wrong as we need infections to build a better immune system, it has learned what is good and what is bad since homosapians existed, but for every minor infection they are not needed at all but are prescribed, we have inside what is needed to fight these without outside help, put it this way, a kid comes up to you with a knife and tries to mug you, if you have the ability and will he's on the deck with his blade up his ass or you can call a gang with glocks to try blast him to death, some will deck him and stick it where the sun dont shine, while others will call in the gang when it's not really necessary.

The second line is that you called crap isn't, it's business and money, the more viruses the better for makers of antivirus software, if you insist it's crap I'll try show you it's not, I know a bit about it, not from the corporate side like you seem to get your information, but from the real side.

Just download any free virus scan, install it, you will be shown umpteen viruses that are on your computer, the majority of which were slipstreamed in with the install, and low and behold the only way to rid your computer of these is to buy the full version.

Antivirus software is a scam, I and others can create simple viruses or more advanced ones, but it's fairly basic stuff, I can bypass most antivirus software by simply sliding or digging it under the fence that is antivirus, a simple google will show you how to do it. I have installed all the best antivirus software available and created simple viruses using nothing more than notepad and got through them very easily, all operating systems are easily infected, the victim may open a picture and in the back is an attached .bat file, script that is NOT detected.

If you would like me to prove it pm me your email, give me permission to attempt it and open the mail I send you, then do whatever you want on your computer for 15 minutes and then I will show you your activity and tell you to format your computer to erase what I just sent you in disguise.
It's so simple I no longer use antivirus, I just reformat my HDD whenever I feel like it, or switch HDD I have a lot of them.
Every security agency on the planet can do it, so can you, if you take the time to learn it, although they have technology the average user doesnt, but we can get close to what they have.

I went off track there a little, but bottom line is antivirus business create business for them selves, if I created an antivirus software I'd like some customers, no virus no custom.

upandcumming

33 wrote: »

The second line is that you called crap isn't, it's business and money, the more viruses the better for makers of antivirus software, if you insist it's crap I'll try show you it's not, I know a bit about it, not from the corporate side like you seem to get your information, but from the real side.

You can tell from one line where I get my information? Well done.

33 wrote: »

Just download any free virus scan, install it, you will be shown umpteen viruses that are on your computer, the majority of which were slipstreamed in with the install, and low and behold the only way to rid your computer of these is to buy the full version.

No it won't. What you're talking about are those rogue anti-virus programs.
I assume you've never heard of AVG or avast anti-virus?

33 wrote: »

Antivirus software is a scam, I and others can create simple viruses or more advanced ones, but it's fairly basic stuff, I can bypass most antivirus software by simply sliding or digging it under the fence that is antivirus, a simple google will show you how to do it. I have installed all the best antivirus software available and created simple viruses using nothing more than notepad and got through them very easily, all operating systems are easily infected, the victim may open a picture and in the back is an attached .bat file, script that is NOT detected.

Believe it or not, I can too all of that, and have done. And you need nothing more than notepad to create a virus, or most bits of software and scripts.

33 wrote: »

If you would like me to prove it pm me your email, give me permission to attempt it and open the mail I send you, then do whatever you want on your computer for 15 minutes and then I will show you your activity and tell you to format your computer to erase what I just sent you in disguise.
It's so simple I no longer use antivirus, I just reformat my HDD whenever I feel like it, or switch HDD I have a lot of them.
Every security agency on the planet can do it, so can you, if you take the time to learn it, although they have technology the average user doesnt, but we can get close to what they have.

I went off track there a little, but bottom line is antivirus business create business for them selves, if I created an antivirus software I'd like some customers, no virus no custom.

So I did just like you said, I downloaded AVG and I had three things come up. One was BitTorrent's out of date signature, and two were keygens I downloaded! Three nothings are a bit short of umpteen.
That scan just took care of a year and a half of being without anti-virus.
Can you imagine the fall-out if Microsoft, McAfee, Symatec, Eset, Kaspersky were found out to be creating viruses? Think about it. Just think about it!

clever_name

Talk E wrote: »

Onion has a point....



http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1208-02.htm

A few points about that link, first it does not state that medicine does not work in general but that different people respond to different medicines better.

also consider that Dr. Roses setup a company to do genetic testing of patients to see what drug would be most effective and wanted the rest of the medical community to join him, this would make a lot of money for his company, possibly a new conspiracy theory for you.

clever_name

whiteonion wrote: »

Conventional medicine is all a big fraud.

Have you ever broken a bone? If so please answer the following

How was it splinting it yourself? unless it was a compound fracture you might have been wrong about it being broken, hard to tell without an x-ray sometimes, so how did you confirm the break?

have you ever had a tooth removed? if so please answer the following

Did it hurt much without the anesthetic? was there any infection and if so what did you treat it with?

I am presuming that if any of these things did happen to you that you did not ask anyone involved in conventional medicine for help?

Do you believe in alternative medicine?

If so it would be useful if you could give a breakdown of what you fell is conventional vs alternative.