Rehabgroup CEO retains salary of half a million

djpbarry

whiteonion wrote: »

I never give money to charity because of crap like this. I will never ever give any money to any charities so I can contribute to some assholes inflated salary.

Because of course every charity is the same.

I'm curious - what would be a reasonable salary for the CEO of an Irish charity?

greenman09

I was witness to a badly needed service they closed last year fir autistic kids that required one to one attention. They cited lack of funding!!! 12 ppl lost there jibs incl my OH and the kids lost a much needed service and <snip> is living on salary like this. A major overhaul required indeed

donaghs

djpbarry wrote: »

Because of course every charity is the same.

I'm curious - what would be a reasonable salary for the CEO of an Irish charity?

Seeing as Brian Lenihan wanted a cap of €250,000 on semi-state salaries. That's a good starting point, and shows how obscene the Rehab CEO salary is. But its still a "charity", I'd be looking at a figure closer to a cap of €100,000. Plenty of talented people would want to do some good for that sort of money.

And recent experience shows, higher salaries doesn't means better quality management.

djpbarry

donaghs wrote: »

But its still a "charity", I'd be looking at a figure closer to a cap of €100,000. Plenty of talented people would want to do some good for that sort of money.

But it’s not just about “doing good”, it’s about doing a good job and providing value for money. And that’s overlooking the fact that you won’t get a CEO of any kind of decent-sized organisation for €100k.

donaghs

djpbarry wrote: »

But it’s not just about “doing good”, it’s about doing a good job and providing value for money. And that’s overlooking the fact that you won’t get a CEO of any kind of decent-sized organisation for €100k.

I'd like to see this postulate tested.

thomasj

djpbarry wrote: »

But it’s not just about “doing good”, it’s about doing a good job and providing value for money. And that’s overlooking the fact that you won’t get a CEO of any kind of decent-sized organisation for €100k.

but it does raise a question, does a charity need a ceo?

And if rehab (or any other registered) charity was collecting money or direct debit, would you feel uneasy (or even reluctant) if revelations of senior managers/directors pay was to surface and was too high?

bijapos

djpbarry wrote: »

But it’s not just about “doing good”, it’s about doing a good job and providing value for money. And that’s overlooking the fact that you won’t get a CEO of any kind of decent-sized organisation for €100k.

I agree with you that its about doing a good job and not just doing good, but a total package including bonuses of €150,000 will get you a top CEO. Its an organisation with an eight figure budget, its not Microsoft or BMW we're talking about here. €400k + is madness.

thomasj: Any organisation with a budget like that of Rehab needs a good manager/CEO, there is no doubt about that.

Having said that Fergus Finlay for all his appearances on radio and TV is also very shy about telling us the size of his renumeration package as CEO of Barnardos.

djpbarry

donaghs wrote: »

I'd like to see this postulate tested.

Off you go and test it then. Rehab has about 3,600 staff – find a CEO a of similar-sized organisation on €100k or less.

djpbarry

thomasj wrote: »

but it does raise a question, does a charity need a ceo?

Does any organisation need a CEO? Why should a charity/non-profit organisation be considered different?

thomasj wrote: »

And if rehab (or any other registered) charity was collecting money or direct debit, would you feel uneasy (or even reluctant) if revelations of senior managers/directors pay was to surface and was too high?

Of course. I should point out that I’m not defending Rehab in this case – I don’t know enough about the situation to form an opinion one way or another (although €500k seems high).

donaghs

djpbarry wrote: »

Off you go and test it then. Rehab has about 3,600 staff – find a CEO a of similar-sized organisation on €100k or less.

I'm sorry, but that's a pointlessly snide remark.:o You already know that its incredibly unlikely that I'm in the position to choose the next heads of some similarly sized charities.

You might also say its pointless for us to be discussing this, but I disagree as the whole idea of such a forum/boards is to be discussing these topics. But as mentioned earlier, I dont have the power to find a new Rehab CEO at a lower price.

I think my ealier post still is valid though. when the head of Rehab retires/is sacked they could simply put an add in the Appointments section of the papers looking for a new CEO, salary €100,000 plus benefits. This would test the postulate very well.

anymore

Have a look at the lady's cv - from the Rehab .http://www.rehab.ie/press/article.aspx?id=155
Chairperson, National Disability Authority, the lead State body on disability policy and practice in Ireland

- Chairperson, Disability Legislation Consultation Group. The DLCG was established by Government to advise on core elements of disability legislation in Ireland. Its members represent over 500 disability organisations.
- Member of the Department of Foreign Affairs / NGO Joint Committee on Human Rights
- Member of the National Executive of the Irish Business Employers Confederation (IBEC)
- Board Member, Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI). The BCI is the state body charged with overseeing broadcasting legislation and policy in Ireland.
- Board Member, European Platform for Rehabilitation. EPR is a European Network of disability service providers. - Member of the Advisory Committee of ComReg. ComReg, the Communications Regulator is the national regulatory authority with responsibility for the regulation of the electronic communications sector and the postal sector in Ireland.

What I cant find there is information that she has managed any other large commercial organisation and thus has acquired the range and depth of experience that might justify a rumeration in the region of € 400,000 that Phoenix has calculated she was paid in 2009. Nor do I see that she has any accountancy qualifications or has done a masters in business that we might expect to see on the CV of a € 400,00 executive.
Nor does this organisation operate in a competitive commercial market.

anymore

djpbarry wrote: »

Off you go and test it then. Rehab has about 3,600 staff – find a CEO a of similar-sized organisation on €100k or less.

I suspect that you might find some young talented, ambitous, executive willing to put in a few years running an organisation of this size to acquire both the experience and status that would come from running an organisation of this size. Take a look at the number of organisations that this lady is invloved in outside of her hours with Rehab; how ardous is her job with Rehab if it allows for this kind of extra curricular activity ? I suspect the reality is that much of the actual management of Rehab is done by the managers of the different Rehab divisions and not by its CEO.

anymore

You can study the list of salaries of charity CEO.s published by the Guardian.:
http://society.guardian.co.uk/salarysurvey/table/0,12406,1042677,00.html

donaghs

anymore wrote: »

You can study the list of salaries of charity CEO.s published by the Guardian.:
http://society.guardian.co.uk/salarysurvey/table/0,12406,1042677,00.html

Nice one Anymore. This figures (even adjusted for Sterling) show a great comparison. And show up the nonsense of someone is a smaller Irish charity getting between a quarter and half a million euros.

e.g. "Unicef David Bull 68,625 64,050 7.1 34.6 1.98"

That pretty much closes the book on the Rehab CEO pay scandal.

Laminations

djpbarry wrote: »

But it’s not just about “doing good”, it’s about doing a good job and providing value for money. And that’s overlooking the fact that you won’t get a CEO of any kind of decent-sized organisation for €100k.

donaghs wrote: »

I'd like to see this postulate tested.

djpbarry wrote: »

Off you go and test it then. Rehab has about 3,600 staff – find a CEO a of similar-sized organisation on €100k or less.

Ouch! I'd imagine it's expected that you actually research your position so you can provide support for it yourself, rather than adversarily challenging others to prove you wrong. Howandever a cursory glance at the following seems to prove you completely wrong

anymore wrote: »

You can study the list of salaries of charity CEO.s published by the Guardian.:
http://society.guardian.co.uk/salarysurvey/table/0,12406,1042677,00.html

So, care to revise your position or back it up with evidence? You'll be pushed to get more relevant data than that of the salaries of the heads of other charities.

A little research could've saved a most incorrect post

djpbarry

donaghs wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that's a pointlessly snide remark.:o You already know that its incredibly unlikely that I'm in the position to choose the next heads of some similarly sized charities.

I’m not asking you to do any such thing. I’m asking you to point to a CEO based in Ireland at the head of an organisation similar in size to Rehab who is being paid €100k or less. I very much doubt you will be able to do so.

djpbarry

Laminations wrote: »

So, care to revise your position or back it up with evidence? You'll be pushed to get more relevant data than that of the salaries of the heads of other charities.

I think some data on CEO’s in Ireland would probably be more relevant. For example, in 2006, the MD of a Dublin-based organisation with a turnover in excess of €10 million could expect to command a salary in the region of €150-240k:
http://www.irishjobs.ie/ForumWW/SalarySurvey.aspx?SalarySurveyID=243&BannorID=&BZoneID=0&ParentID=75&CID=16

Considering that Rehab have a turnover of about €200 million annually and salaries have certainly not fallen below 2006 levels, I find it extremely hard to believe that anyone would be prepared to take on the position of CEO for €100k or less.

Fulton Crown

You probably would not get anyone worthwhile for less than 150k...but that is a hell of a lot less than the reported €400,000 this person is being paid.

I say again ...time to look at the senior management remuneration structure of this organisation......I find it strange that the board do not end speculation by coming clean on this.

Hopefully they have nothing to hide .......

donaghs

Back in the news again:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/audidriving-charity-chief-executive-on-a-salary-of-234000-3282210.html

walshb

wow sierra wrote: »

How do people like her sleep at night????

With 500k per year, like a baby!

madra dubh

In the article it states that no HSE money is used to fund the higher management positions.If that is the case, the only other funding stream is fundraising. It just doesn't sit well the fact that people give their time raising money for what they think is to enhance services but in reality is funding fat cat wages.

djpbarry

madra dubh wrote: »

It just doesn't sit well the fact that people give their time raising money for what they think is to enhance services but in reality is funding fat cat wages.

How much do you think the CEO of Rehab should be paid?

donaghs

djpbarry wrote: »

I’m not asking you to do any such thing. I’m asking you to point to a CEO based in Ireland at the head of an organisation similar in size to Rehab who is being paid €100k or less. I very much doubt you will be able to do so.

see link below, charities of various sizes

Fulton Crown wrote: »

You probably would not get anyone worthwhile for less than 150k...but that is a hell of a lot less than the reported €400,000 this person is being paid.

same

djpbarry wrote: »

How much do you think the CEO of Rehab should be paid?

Here's an interesting article from 2011 showing some Irish Charity CEO pay.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfgbidgbqlgb/rss2/
Clearly most of the salaries are closer to the €100K mark. And having been sliding downward since the end of the Celtic Tiger. This makes a nonsense of the previous arrogant statements belittling anyone who dared question what charities pay themselves.
The head of Jack and Jill was getting less than €100. Does this mean they are useless? Of course not.

Now, assuming she only gets her current €234,000 salary from Rehab (excluding bonuses, allowances for cars, phones, lunch, mileage, and all the other tricks of the trade to mask payment), that means she gets €19,500 gross per month. Reading this 2012 about the nation Rehab swimathon, http://www.offalyexpress.ie/news/local/st-broghan-s-ns-tops-in-rehab-swimathon-1-3993757,
One school in Offaly raised €500, and together all the participants nationally raised an impressive €21,000. Unfortunately that just about enough to cover one months gross salary for Angela. Worth thinking about....

Markcheese

I suppose in the private sector it'd be a case of how much it'd cost to get someone else to do same or better job... And do you get worth from her salary, ( don't forget to add her pension and perks cost onto her package )
It sounds like a lot though...

boiledsweets

Ive worked in rehab care and they pay their workers they say competitive rates,i would say shit rates,they chew them and spit them out,high turnover rate also,i lasted about in all two years there,and went over to another not for profit organisation for their better competitive rates..

Its no wonder the pay is so bad there when the CEOS are creaming the best of the money..I mean FFS 500,000 per year,i heard it was 400,000 per year :eek:

Charity isnt charity...Take that from a charity worker,effectively the horses mouth..

Ive done home help aswell with comfort keepers and ive seen situations of neglect with the other staff and patients in nursing homes as a student worker,the whole NGO not for profit system is a sham ,and they know it too,driving off in their big mercs...

nice_guy80

a lot of the full time admin people who run charities and other organisations are paid too much in Ireland

eg
rehab
goal
brothers of charity
FAI
IRFU
and other sports organisations

they almost set their own salaries!!

Mr.Micro

nice_guy80 wrote: »

a lot of the full time admin people who run charities and other organisations are paid too much in Ireland

eg
rehab
goal
brothers of charity
FAI
IRFU
and other sports organisations

they almost set their own salaries!!

I will bet they do not give much to charities as they know where it goes. They appear to be paid as well as the boys at the IBRC and other banks.

Capt'n Midnight

His total income, including the rent, is not thought to be far above £150,000 a year. (~ €188K)

It's a guy who runs an organisation that will spend a trillion dollars this year , controls nuclear weapons , the worlds fifth biggest economy and a seat on the UN security council.

It's David Cameron. Most of the UK cabinet aren't even in the highest tax bracket over there.

RMD

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

His total income, including the rent, is not thought to be far above £150,000 a year. (~ €188K)

It's a guy who runs an organisation that will spend a trillion dollars this year , controls nuclear weapons , the worlds fifth biggest economy and a seat on the UN security council.

It's David Cameron. Most of the UK cabinet aren't even in the highest tax bracket over there.

Comparing the wage of a head of state to the head of an organization is entirely irrelevant. People don't enter politics to earn money.

RainyDay

RMD wrote: »

Comparing the wage of a head of state to the head of an organization is entirely irrelevant. People don't enter politics to earn money.

So they should enter the charidee business to get the real money then?