Social Welfare Fraud

Ricey1

The problem is how easy it is for foreigners to come here and claim a free house and social welfare. I know a lot of Polish and they say to me your system is too easy, they can fly their parents over sign them on and collect money for them, then they all get free houses and joke about how easy life in Ireland is. The people with rental properties are laughing because the government is paying off their mortgages for them.
If Irish people in the 80s heard that they could go to Italy and get a free house and €200 a week and the best thing is they did not have to work, we would have been all over it, so you can not blame the individuals, its the system
I was renting a house in Dublin and most of the people who turned up were Romanian, I asked were they working and they all said "No our dad have an accident and now the social pay for everything", I asked them all where they where from and some in Romanian gypsy costumes where saying in a Romanian accent that they where Polish. They all know exactly what to say to get the free house and social. The last person to view the house came around with a letter from the social and said he would take the house, the letter was for a woman and when questioned he said, yes this is for my sister. I am getting one of these letters in a few days. Then he came around with his sister who was 18 and holding a baby. So she is 18 and will live in Dublin for the rest of her life with a free house and €200 in her pocket, and probably a few extra bob for christmas by sitting on the ha'penny bridge with a cup
The bottom line is social welfare fraud to me means that the government is frauding the tax payer by giving away our money without concern. What should happen is that if after 6 months people are still unemployed then offer them the free Ryanair flight home, we cant sustain that kind of constant payment while being up to are balls in it

djpbarry

Ricey1 wrote: »

The problem is how easy it is for foreigners to come here and claim a free house and social welfare.

No it isn’t.

Ricey1 wrote: »

I know a lot of Polish and they say to me your system is too easy, they can fly their parents over sign them on and collect money for them...

No they can’t.

Ricey1 wrote: »

then they all get free houses...

No they don’t.

Ricey1 wrote: »

If Irish people in the 80s heard that they could go to Italy and get a free house and €200 a week and the best thing is they did not have to work, we would have been all over it, so you can not blame the individuals, its the system

Can you tell me where I apply for my free house and €200 a week for doing nothing?

Ricey1 wrote: »

I was renting a house in Dublin and most of the people who turned up were Romanian, I asked were they working and they all said "No our dad have an accident and now the social pay for everything", I asked them all where they where from and some in Romanian gypsy costumes where saying in a Romanian accent that they where Polish.

Meaningless anecdotes are meaningless.

Ricey1

Your in London so what would you know about it? I have plenty of Polish friends that would back this up, and further more I have first hand experience of dealing with people through renting property

dan_d

I do, in my time in the SW offices, have to wonder how on earth Romanians/Nigerians etc are entitled to anything.

This is a genuine question. Neither are in the EU. (are Romania in it conditionally?). Poles/Lithuanians/Latvians.....most of them have contributed to the system in some way in the last few years. I am not racist, but I sat in a SW office the other day and watched a Nigerian man roaring at the worker behind the counter about knowing his rights, and demanding his entitlements. He's been 2 years in the country and never worked. (I know this because he shouted it at the top of his voice....). I know there are restrictions on them with visas in a lot of cases.

I'm NOT racist, but I look at the amount of abuse people on the dole receive on the radios and on forums like around here. People, like me, who are genuinely looking for work everywhere - being accused of bleeding the system, and scamming the state and called wasters and scroungers. And then I look at guys like that, who are shouting their heads off at the SW workers, demanding their rights but who aren't willing to even fill in a lousy piece of paper, or attend a FAS course (the responsibilities that go with those rights, you know, and the origin of the row...), and I wonder wtf is going on here, how are they entitled to (and AWARE of!!) an endless myriad of services and payments...and I'll be means-tested for JSA come July (let's just say I'm praying that I won't be unemployed by then...) and I'll have to make a case just to keep the lousy 188eur a week...

It's completely baffling to watch what goes on in those offices, and the stream of people who seem to be entitled to so much.

However - one question I have regarding the OP - how much money would they recoup through going after sw fraud? I'm not agreeing with it, but the amount of money the SW system would have to put in to do it, would it be balanced by what they'd get back I wonder? And make no mistake...the SW system is creaking along. They can barely process the current payments and problem, without adding extra. The whole place needs to be restructured from top to bottom, in one move, and rearranged. And my God....computerised. It needs to be dragged into the 21st century. Currently, it's still back in the 80's somewhere...

flatulence

There's no need to label all of the unemployed as this type of scum, not all of them have this mentality, there are actually some decent people on the dole you know :rolleyes:

why not give them tasks that would be given to them and collect their dole?. Not every person on the dole is looking to "abuse the system" like you say, there are some decent people on the dole who would happily sweep the streets/pick up shit etc. And keep the streets clean for me and my work colleagues, at least if they are humiliated it makes us all feel they are earning their keep not just receiving free money, unless they are dishonest scroungers, they will agree to work for their dole.

meditraitor

flatulence wrote: »

unless they are dishonest scroungers, they will agree to work for their dole.

And for parents? I'm currently paying €950 per month on childcare(just one kid), if I was on the dole and forced to work for the €180 per week how would I pay for childcare?let alone food and electricity

djpbarry

Ricey1 wrote: »

Your in London so what would you know about it? I have plenty of Polish friends that would back this up, and further more I have first hand experience of dealing with people through renting property

Answer the question - where do I apply for a free house and €200 per week in Ireland?

djpbarry

dan_d wrote: »

I do, in my time in the SW offices, have to wonder how on earth Romanians/Nigerians etc are entitled to anything.

This is a genuine question. Neither are in the EU. (are Romania in it conditionally?).

Romania are in the EU, but at present, Romanian citizens have limited access to the Irish labour market.

dan_d wrote: »

Poles/Lithuanians/Latvians.....most of them have contributed to the system in some way in the last few years. I am not racist...

What you just said is racist. Poles, Lithuanians and Latvians have all contributed to the Irish economy, but Nigerians and Romanians have not?

dan_d wrote: »

...how are they entitled to (and AWARE of!!) an endless myriad of services and payments...

Who are “they” and why are you assuming they are entitled to anything that you are not? Because a black guy was shouting in a SW office?

dan_d wrote: »

It's completely baffling to watch what goes on in those offices, and the stream of people who seem to be entitled to so much.

I’ve highlighted the key word in that sentence – racism is largely fuelled by misconceptions.

flatulence

meditraitor wrote: »

And for parents? I'm currently paying €950 per month on childcare(just one kid), if I was on the dole and forced to work for the €180 per week how would I pay for childcare?let alone food and electricity

So you think you should get free money while us honest people get up in the morning, go out & do an honest days work while you have your lie on, maybe getting up to watch "This Morning" :rolleyes:

People have some sense of self-entitlement these days

coffee_cake

flatulence wrote: »

So you think you should get free money while us honest people get up in the morning, go out & do an honest days work while you have your lie on, maybe getting up to watch "This Morning" :rolleyes:

People have some sense of self-entitlement these days

Children needing supervision is self-entitlement indeed. Terrible attitude. They should be sent out to work as well and stop scrounging!

HellFireClub

What about the guy who is on the dole for the last few years and goes down every month and signs on, but isn't actually looking for work at all, he's just happy to stay on the dole, waiting for someone to knock on his door with a job???

Is that fraud??? Because as far as I recall, when you sign on, you make a declaration to the effect that you have been unable to find work, which cannot be true if you are not looking for work to begin with???

Ricey1

djpbarry wrote: »

Answer the question - where do I apply for a free house and €200 per week in Ireland?

Sorry I must apologise for making up the entire statement.

First of all I would like to clarify Romanian gypsys would never take social hand outs as it is clearly against their morals and to do so would prevent them from sleeping at night. Romanian gypsys are clearly at the forefront of innovation and technology and therefore taking any time out of their busy schedule to sign on may delay the next space project
I made up the story about the 18 year old Romanian girl with a baby, obviously if you are a single mother in Ireland there is absolutely positively 100% no way the Irish government would give you €200 and a free house, sure if that was the case wouldnt have of eastern Europe turn up for the free hand outs

There is nothing wrong with being on the social as most people (of all nationalities) have more than contributed to this country in years gone by. The point I am making is there is obviously certain people have not contributed to this country nor will they ever, who have come here to take free hand outs and it seems too easy to do so

flatulence

djpbarry wrote: »

Answer the question - where do I apply for a free house and €200 per week in Ireland?

The dole office with rest of the scroungers, or is it too much work for ya to queue up :rolleyes:

Laminations

djpbarry wrote: »

What you just said is racist. Poles, Lithuanians and Latvians have all contributed to the Irish economy, but Nigerians and Romanians have not?

What dan_d said may have been inaccurate but it was not racist. Where was the intolerance, abuse, suggestion of superiority or incitement to hatred that would legitimately make her remarks racist? I guess I'm not down with the kids these days and your new definition of racist. How about rather than reaching for that card you just use the word inaccurate.

djpbarry

Ricey1 wrote: »

Sorry I must apologise for making up the entire statement.

You said that you “know a lot of Polish ... can fly their parents over sign them on and collect money for them.” So if I fly over to Dublin tomorrow, I want to know where I go to get my free house and/or money? And if the state is handing out freebies left, right and centre, then why is Ireland experiencing net emigration at present?

djpbarry

Laminations wrote: »

What dan_d said may have been inaccurate but it was not racist.

Generalisations based on nationality and/or race qualify as racist in my book. Split hairs all you want.

Laminations wrote: »

How about rather than reaching for that card you just use the word inaccurate.

Why? Has “racist” become politically incorrect?

Is it necessary for me to point out that I did not label dan_d a racist, I labelled his post racist?

Laminations

djpbarry wrote: »

Is it necessary for me to point out that I did not label dan_d a racist, I labelled his post racist?

Dan_d is female. Typical sexist post assuming a poster is male

Laminations

djpbarry wrote: »

Generalisations based on nationality and/or race qualify as racist in my book. Split hairs all you want.
Why? Has “racist” become politically incorrect?

It's become an overused and abused term. Generalisations are generalisations. Inaccurate generalisations are inaccurate or ignorant generalisations. And purposely inaccurate and intolerant generalisations (based on race) with an abusive intent are racist.

For your definition the statement 'Generally black people are more prone to sickle cell anemia' is racist.

PUT THE CARD DOWN

petra62

I am a 36 years old romanian women.I live in Ireland from 2 years.After i pay my bills i have 100 euro per week for food and clothes for me and my daughter.she is in 2th class and is one from the best girls in her class.with this 100 euro we live and i say ''GOD THANK YOU!''.In Romania I worked for 200 euro for entire month. i used to buy two carrots,two eggs and one chicken breast for my baby and I ate fried onion with bread.I had to wear a jacket till it had holes sewed an wear again. now I wash toilets,give me as many toilets you want i'll clean.BECAUSE I'M ROMANIAN. I know the life can be worse.

Ricey1

djpbarry wrote: »

You said that you “know a lot of Polish ... can fly their parents over sign them on and collect money for them.” So if I fly over to Dublin tomorrow, I want to know where I go to get my free house and/or money? And if the state is handing out freebies left, right and centre, then why is Ireland experiencing net emigration at present?

Educated and talented people are leaving Ireland because they thrive to make a better life for themselves, they can not see that happening for them here. For some people taking money from the social is not a long term solution so moving abroad is very attractive. If you move to USA, Oz or Canada you can make 100k a year, live like a king in a warmer and more fruitful climate and provide a better standard of life for your children. I am lucky as I have a well paid job and find that in Dublin there is actually an abundance of well paid jobs in my area. This combined with the fact that I have not yet bought a house makes it easy for me to stay here, but if there was no jobs left in Ireland I would not take the dole option, i would move abroad

For some countries the free social hand outs discussed above are very attractive. As you are living in London ask any English person did they see Ross Kemp on gangs in Bulgaria and Romania and ask them what they think about organised crime groups sending an abundance of families to the UK & Ireland to take free social hand outs and beg on the streets to send money back to the criminals

Here is a taster for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVFlAslG5S4

Can you please explain why you are throwing the toys out of the pram, do you think that this does not go on in Ireland?

Laminations

petra62 wrote: »

I am a 36 years old romanian women.I live in Ireland from 2 years.After i pay my bills i have 100 euro per week for food and clothes for me and my daughter.she is in 2th class and is one from the best girls in her class.with this 100 euro we live and i say ''GOD THANK YOU!''.In Romania I worked for 200 euro for entire month. i used to buy two carrots,two eggs and one chicken breast for my baby and I ate fried onion with bread.I had to wear a jacket till it had holes sewed an wear again. now I wash toilets,give me as many toilets you want i'll clean.BECAUSE I'M ROMANIAN. I know the life can be worse.

Hi Petra, I don't fully understand your point about cleaning toilets because you are Romanian but can you address Ricey's (or Dan_d's)
generalisation about Romanians. Before you pay bills where does your money come from? Is it from cleaning toilets? Is it the dole? There is no need for you to answer if you do not want to.

EDIT: My read of it is that you work for your money which torpedoes their points somewhat

Ricey1

Hi Petra. It is great that you came to Ireland and found a better life for yourself, the Irish did the same for years
The point being made in this thread is how easy it is for foreigners to come to Ireland and claim social benefits. When the Irish left to go to the US, Australia etc. they went to find work, if they didnt find work then they starved, there was no social support for them.
What you are saying in your story just proves how attractive Ireland is for people in Romania. The problem is we are a small island in serious debt and can not afford to hand out money. Romania has a population of 22 million, Poland has a population of 38 million and Latvia has a population of 2.3 million. When the EU expanded 47% of Latvians left the next day and the majority of them came to Ireland. So now that we are in unimaginable debt, the point I am making is that the social need to better handle the current problem of people entering this country for hand outs and the people here that are taking advantage of the free aid

I was not making a generalisation about Romanians as I work with a few and know how hard they work. I was saying about the Romanian gypsies that came banging at my door with their social letters, one family after another telling me "my father have accident, the social pay for everything". These where different families on different days pre-programmed to say the exact same thing, Ireland is borrowing large amounts of money from Europe to pay for all this and in the end where will it leave this small country

djpbarry

Laminations wrote: »

Dan_d is female. Typical sexist post assuming a poster is male

Yes, I suppose it was.

Laminations wrote: »

It's become an overused and abused term.

Actually, I would say that, increasingly, racism is explained away and apologised for. In my opinion, it is now politically incorrect to point out that a person, or a particular comment, is racist, even if said racism is blatant.

Laminations wrote: »

For your definition the statement 'Generally black people are more prone to sickle cell anemia' is racist.

No, because (presumably) that is a statistically valid, evidence-based conclusion. On the other hand, 'generally black people have AIDS', for example, is not and it would not be unreasonable to consider such a statement racist.

djpbarry

Ricey1 wrote: »

Educated and talented people are leaving Ireland because they thrive to make a better life for themselves...

But surely, if the state is handing out masses of free cash and houses, the numbers leaving should be heavily outweighed by those arriving? So, where do I go to get my free cash/house?

djpbarry

Ricey1 wrote: »

The point being made in this thread is how easy it is for foreigners to come to Ireland and claim social benefits.

No, that's the point you're trying to make. Not very well, I might add.

Ricey1 wrote: »

When the EU expanded 47% of Latvians left the next day and the majority of them came to Ireland.

Bollocks.

Ricey1 wrote: »

I was saying about the Romanian gypsies that came banging at my door with their social letters, one family after another telling me "my father have accident, the social pay for everything"

Funny. Myself and the missus recently rented out our flat in Dublin and we didn't have a single enquiry from a gypsy.

Ricey1

You have a missus? Bet she loves listening to you

Laminations

djpbarry wrote: »

Actually, I would say that, increasingly, racism is explained away and apologised for. In my opinion, it is now politically incorrect to point out that a person, or a particular comment, is racist, even if said racism is blatant.

There is no 'political' about it. It is either correct or incorrect to label someone or their post as racist.

No, because (presumably) that is a statistically valid, evidence-based conclusion.

It is still a generalisation based on race, which qualifies it under your definition as racist

On the other hand, 'generally black people have AIDS', for example, is not and it would not be unreasonable to consider such a statement racist.

I'd consider such a statement merely as ignorant unless there was malice in how and why the inaccurate statement was being put forth.

dan_d

flatulence wrote: »

There's no need to label all of the unemployed as this type of scum, not all of them have this mentality, there are actually some decent people on the dole you know :rolleyes:

why not give them tasks that would be given to them and collect their dole?. Not every person on the dole is looking to "abuse the system" like you say, there are some decent people on the dole who would happily sweep the streets/pick up shit etc. And keep the streets clean for me and my work colleagues, at least if they are humiliated it makes us all feel they are earning their keep not just receiving free money, unless they are dishonest scroungers, they will agree to work for their dole.

That is an exact copy of a post you had in another thread (possibly in work and biz) where I'm pretty sure you were banned for posting it.....

Anyway, the problem djpbarry is that there is no way that I could pose those questions without sounding racist, but they are genuine questions on my part. I couldn't give 2 curses who gets SW to be honest. I spent the last 5 years working on site with a huge variety of nations - Polish/Lithuanian/Latvian/Hungarian/Estonian/Romanian. Great workers, all of them. I never had any problem with them.

HAVE Nigerians and Romanians contributed to the economy? I don't know. The man in question hadn't. Sure he told us - at the top of his voice. He knew all his rights, but he didn't want to hear about any responsibilities that might go with them....which was that he hadn't filled in some paperwork and he hadn't attended a FAS course that he was supposed to go to. Yet he was well able to come in shouting and roaring, demanding money....the Romanians I have seen in the SW are frequently Roma. I'm relatively certain most of them are not, in fact, contributing.

As far as I'm concerned, if you've paid in, you should be entitled to something. If not, then tough.And that goes for the indigenous Irish too. I would imagine the reason that so many people are emigrating is because they want a better life for themselves and they can see they won't be getting here any time soon.

The reason I posed my questions is because those are questions that need asking. But the minute anyone asks them, people are hopping up and down screaming "racist". Yet in 2 seconds, we'll abuse our own people who are claiming welfare, from a height, pour buckets of scorn on their heads.Even those who are genuinely experiencing hard times and are job hunting..

Interesting, that. By the way, my username is somewhat misleading, so I won't hold that against you;).

djpbarry

Laminations wrote: »

It is still a generalisation based on race, which qualifies it under your definition as racist

No it doesn’t and I have already explained why.

djpbarry

dan_d wrote: »

HAVE Nigerians and Romanians contributed to the economy? I don't know.

You’re kidding, right?

dan_d wrote: »

The man in question hadn't. Sure he told us - at the top of his voice. He knew all his rights, but he didn't want to hear about any responsibilities that might go with them....which was that he hadn't filled in some paperwork and he hadn't attended a FAS course that he was supposed to go to. Yet he was well able to come in shouting and roaring, demanding money

So what? I could head to my nearest SW office and start shouting and roaring, demanding money – what will that prove?

dan_d wrote: »

...the Romanians I have seen in the SW are frequently Roma.

How do you know they’re Romanian?

dan_d wrote: »

The reason I posed my questions is because those are questions that need asking.

Why do they need asking? Why do you assume that Nigerians and Romanians are not entitled to any benefits? Furthermore, why are you assuming that these individuals that you see in SW offices are Nigerian and Romanian?