Mad Men Season 5 [** Spoilers **]

pickarooney

This episode broke my heart in all the right ways. An immense piece of television.

allybhoy

Brilliant episode. The bit with Don and Peggy was pure class, when I was watching that scene i kept thinking back to a scene in a previous episode in either series 2 or 3 where Peggy either threatened to quit or did and Don said something like "if you leave i will spend every waking hour of the rest of my life trying to win you back"

The realisation on Don's face when she refused to take double her offer and wouldnt disclose what she was being paid was magnificent acting by Hamm.

mahamageehad

Oh that was sooooo good!

You kinda get the feeling with this episode that all the women in Don's life are disappointing him- Megan, Joan and then Peggy. But wow it really seemed like genuine shock when he realised Peggy was serious! Fantastic acting. Really on edge for the next two episodes now!
Pete is a disgusting character, but can't see him being killed off. They need the villain! I think Lane might be a good guess like BlaasForRafa said. And then maybe they could coax Peggy back as partner?? The show won't feel right without her!

coL

What is this pact that Peggy and Ken keep mentioning?

I heard it first a few episodes back and though I must have missed something in a previous episode/series because I don't remember anything about them having a pact.

Any ideas?

pickarooney

coL wrote: »

What is this pact that Peggy and Ken keep mentioning?

I heard it first a few episodes back and though I must have missed something in a previous episode/series because I don't remember anything about them having a pact.

Any ideas?

AFAIK it was only mentioned for the first time after Ken met Peggy in the diner with his agent in tow. They agreed that if one of them left SCDP the other would follow along. Of course KEn would have to actually get a job offer at Chaugh's place...

coL

It just seemed from the way they were talking that it was something that they had discussed previously and we were supposed to know about. Then when he came into her office and told her that if she didn't make it to Paris he would take her as part of the pact I thought there was some plot point I had really missed.

plastic glass

wow. What an episode.

I have to start though with a negative. I thought it was really unbelieveable that Don was the only one against Joanie prostituting herself. I though roger would be the one most against it. Don doesnt have many scruples and while he has respect for Joan I think their bond is not that strong. Its not like Roger needs the bonus they will get next year with Jaguar on board. Also I dont think its in Cooper's nature for him to want this to happen either. The motivation for Pryce to want Joan to do it was expalined very well though.

The only way I could see Don not wanting Joan to sleep with Herb or whoever was out of professional pride, but this want really hammered home to us. More very mildly implied. Or else the fact that his mother was a prostitute may have had provided some explanation for his actions. Im not saying that he would have wanted her to do it, Im just saying that its not very believable that he would be the only one who didnt want her to do it.

Saying that it was still one of my favourite episodes. The scene with Peggy and Don at the end was as good as it gets. The acting, the writing, the conflcting emotions involved. I have never been all that big a fan of Peggy but she has provided some of the best moments of the series and her arc is one of the most interesting. Also that smile before she got into the lift was perfectly played. I did feel sorry for Don but its his own fault for the most part. Throwing money in her face earlier in the ep is prime example.

By the way does anyone else get the jitters every time the lift opens that someone is gonna be looking the wrong way and there is only an empty shft there.

I really dont think anyone is going to die this year. Its too obvious. Mad men never really goes the way we expect it if you ask me. They dont need these big things to happen. The big things that happen are the subtle relationships between characters etc. Im waffling now I know.

Did anyone else think that Ginsberg was saying that Don thinks Megan is his Jaguar. Something beautiful he can finally own.

Someone mentioned the peggy/ken pact. That has been going on a while. i think it happened around season three or four when SDCP was set up. Thats from memory so could be totally wrong. Ken is a stand up guy by the way. Feel sorry for the way peggy talked to him after Don's outburst.

pickarooney

I gave Roger the benefit of the doubt in that he believed Joan was big enough to make her own decision (and had just made it clear she didn't want him having any controlling interest in her life). I may be being too kind to him though.

johnny_ultimate

I did think they handled everyone's initial disgust at the indecent proposal well, though. Of course the true colours shone when they realised they were going to have to do it 'for the company'. Only one that really surprised was Bert Cooper TBH: I guess of all the characters we haven't seen his more reprehensible side in great detail.

Thargor

Bit of an odd episode that recent one? Kind of destroyed Joans character, Partner meetings from here on out are just going to be weird, cant believe Jaguar signed off on that 'message' (I assume they needed permission to use the name and the cars like that?).

iguana

I'm not too sure what the value of a 5% voting share was. What, considering what we know about the existing partners, are the odds of Joan ever having a deciding vote? Obviously the writers can do what they want but as it stands creating a split where 5% is the decider would be extremely contrived.

The shares were divided so that Don, Bert and Roger as senior partners had 25% each and Pete and Lane had 25% between them, presumably 12.5% each. Joan's shares would have either come from each partner giving her 1% or, more likely as Pete and Lane would have been drawing up the papers, 1.25% from each 25%. So now presumably Don, Bert and Roger have 23.75% each, Lane and Pete have 11.75% each and Joan has 5%. Her vote will only ever matter if Lane, Pete and one of the senior partners disagree with the other two. And I don't really see a situation where that could arise.

I can understand why she did it. Joan knows she has talents and she knows those talents will always be overlooked in the industry. I don't think she would have done it for the $50k but the idea of the power and prestige of being a partner in the company was a big factor in what made her do it. But 5% is nearly worthless in terms of power and the prestige will be tainted by how she achieved her position.

Technocentral

Thargor wrote: »

Bit of an odd episode that recent one? Kind of destroyed Joans character, Partner meetings from here on out are just going to be weird, cant believe Jaguar signed off on that 'message' (I assume they needed permission to use the name and the cars like that?).

I was wondering about that too, even though they did say he was a Jaguar dealership guy and not part of the company itself, still, a bit weird of the company to say thats fine! They obviously got permission as their cars are featured in it. I'm looking forward to the episode where Coca Cola get someone whacked!

AlmightyCushion

iguana wrote: »

I'm not too sure what the value of a 5% voting share was. What, considering what we know about the existing partners, are the odds of Joan ever having a deciding vote? Obviously the writers can do what they want but as it stands creating a split where 5% is the decider would be extremely contrived.

The shares were divided so that Don, Bert and Roger as senior partners had 25% each and Pete and Lane had 25% between them, presumably 12.5% each. Joan's shares would have either come from each partner giving her 1% or, more likely as Pete and Lane would have been drawing up the papers, 1.25% from each 25%. So now presumably Don, Bert and Roger have 23.75% each, Lane and Pete have 11.75% each and Joan has 5%. Her vote will only ever matter if Lane, Pete and one of the senior partners disagree with the other two. And I don't really see a situation where that could arise.

I can understand why she did it. Joan knows she has talents and she knows those talents will always be overlooked in the industry. I don't think she would have done it for the $50k but the idea of the power and prestige of being a partner in the company was a big factor in what made her do it. But 5% is nearly worthless in terms of power and the prestige will be tainted by how she achieved her position.

Power wise it's more or less useless but there is a possibility that she will have to cast the deciding vote on something however unlikely that is. The big advantage of the 5% share was that she gets a cut of the profits. If the company survives and goes from strength to strength then that could be worth a small fortune and would provide for her and her child well in to the future. At least I think that was how Lane was selling it to her.

pickarooney

I always thought Lane was a senior partner as he has his initial in the company name. I didn't understand what he was talking about when he mentioned for settling for less than he was worth but it make sense now if he was given a letter instead of 12.5%

What happens to the share when Bert dies?

jcsoulinger

[QUOTE=

What happens to the share when Bert dies?[/QUOTE]

I would presume he has a will. This thread seems to have gotten very speculative all of a sudden.

Kylo Ren

What an episode. One of my favorites of all time, maybe my favorite.

efb

Wow finally caught up so I can link in with this thread again.

I was personally saddened but no way surprised by the Joan carry on, but the realisation that Don has lost his control over people in this episode, SCDP, Megan, Joan and finally Peggy- that was brilliant.

Kilkenny14

Poor Lane

Dermighty

What a show!

Between this and the Borgias it's one of the best years for tv in my memory.

MartMax

That was a very good episode. Things are folding in many surprising ways. It gets clearer but seems darker.

DeepBlue

Jeez, when SCDP look for your resignation they really mean it. :eek: :pac:

johnny_ultimate

Wow. Kind of running out of superlatives for this season at this point.

Lane's death

must be the least romantic in the history of television. Brutal, blunt and depressing. We all knew it was coming, but the vividness of its realisation still came as a shock.

Obviously going to be the talking point, but the rest of the episode packed several punches. Don's pitch may be one of his most satisfying character moments: the hunger for success making itself abundantly clear. You'd think Weiner and co. might have had the most awkward Sally Draper moment with the masturbation episode, but this one probably tops it :pac: Yet the brutal honest of her character development shows the show's insistence on wringing the best possible insight out of its characters.

I think brutal honesty is the key theme of this episode, actually. Ken Cosgrove's exchange with Roger Sterling says it all. "I don't want to be your partner, because I know what it takes" (I'm slightly paraphrasing). Every potential victory is matched by a defeat, moral or otherwise. There's no winners in the world of Mad Men, only those who lose least. And, alas, Lane Price has been resigned to the role of 'he who lost most'.

EDIT: Glad they didn't stoop to having Lane jump from the building alá the opening credits. For a series that often isn't none-too-subtle with symbolism, that would have been a step too obvious.

jcsoulinger

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

EDIT: Glad they didn't stoop to having Lane jump from the building alá the opening credits. For a series that often isn't none-too-subtle with symbolism, that would have been a step too obvious.

That honorable ending may still be awaiting a higher profile character.

Lanes stiff upper lip got the best of him in the end. Don was way too harsh especially considering his past in identity theft, His lack of control at home has turned him into a freak in the office. From a story line perspective it was the way to go as apart from the scene where he battered Pete his character offered little this series. Lucky he didn't succeed with the first attempt as that would probably be the end of the jag account

Ken has finally learned how to play the game his scene with Roger was a revelation, Probably as a result of Peggy ignoring the pact and jumping ship. Pete needs to watch out.

I found the scenes with Glenn and Sally reminiscent of The Catcher In The Rye, Im not sure which one is Holden though.

Cant wait for the last episode, I may wait up till 3am next Sunday.

Battleflag

I was worried that the show would have lost its spark running into it's fifth season especially with such a long break between the fourth and the fifth. Oh how I was wrong, this season has been absolutely stunning television. It really is going from strength to strength, last week's episode being one of my favourites.

Can't believe there is only one episode left in the season

Technocentral

He did become less likable in this series but seeing him trying to start his Jaguar with his half broken glasses was quite moving and of course his ultimate scene the Sally story line was excellent too.

expectationlost

jaguar must love this?

ah they tweeted their response to last weeks

"Loved the pitch, didn't love the process," Jaguar cheekily tweeted in response to the episode. "We applaud Peggy leaving SCDP."

but to them showing a car so unreliable you can't even kill yourself in it?

ah well...

http://jalopnik.com/5915516/how-it-feels-to-watch-mad-men-total-your-car-company

Sad Professor

How I laughed at the Jaguar not starting... That was a wonderful bit of dark humour is an otherwise heartbreaking episode.

I actually think Don was quite fair to Lane. It would have been different if he had uncovered it himself; that it was Bert complicated matters. Either the truth was going to come out or Don was going to have to take responsibility for writing that cheque. Don offered Lane a way out, a chance to start again, without involving the authorities or being fired. The fact that Lane instead chose suicide is telling. It demonstrates just how difficult starting over is. Don did it once, maybe twice if you count his marriage (such as it is) to Megan, but can he do it again?

Lane is also the second man Don has driven to suicide. His half brother hung himself as well.

PrincessLola

Oh God that episode, I need therapy.

I was in tears the moment

Don told Lane to resign, because I knew at that moment what was going to happen, it was like watching a slow train wreck for the rest of the episode

and I basically didn't stop crying until like 20 minutes after the episode ended. It was brutal.

Feathers

iguana wrote: »

I'm not too sure what the value of a 5% voting share was. What, considering what we know about the existing partners, are the odds of Joan ever having a deciding vote? Obviously the writers can do what they want but as it stands creating a split where 5% is the decider would be extremely contrived.

Going back a week here, but with the voting — I always took it that their votes were done on straight numbers; they often mention in episodes '4 to 1', etc rather than getting into percentages. Think the percent is just the profit you take out (or money you put in), rather than your influence.

expectationlost

i wonder why don't didn't tell the rest of them before they opened the letter, don't know what i might have said better to get it out first, i hope the rip it up and provide his widow with a pension.