Men and Women = Friends

LegacyUser

Hey,
Sorry if this has been done before but what do you think of friendships between men and woman? Is there always someone that wants more?

Morag

Yes men and women can be friends, just friends, platonic friends and good friends and nothing else.

Asphyxia

Ofcourse they can! I have lots of guy friends that will always be just friends to me.

squeakyduck

Not always, I have many guy friends that I have NO special feelings for. But, then there have been guys in the past that I've met and have had feelings for. It just depends. I don't think a person can be attracted to EVERYONE he/she meets!

Poor Craythur

I definitely have some male friends who don't want to pork me. :P In fact, none of them do, I reckon. I just don't get that vibe off them.

Ickle Magoo

I think men and women can be great friends - as long as there is not sexual attraction on either side...and yes, such platonic friendships are both possible and plentiful.

28064212

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think men and women can be great friends - as long as there is not sexual attraction on either side...and yes, such platonic friendships are both possible and plentiful.

Not sure the bolded part is absolutely necessary, it just makes it a bit trickier. Certainly when I was younger, the whole unrequited love/friendzone thing was depressing, frustrating and caused its fair share of problems. Now though, I have a few female friends who I would definitely be interested in (and a couple of them are very close friends), but I either value their friendship above the possibility of a relationship screwing it up, or they're in a relationship already.

It doesn't cause any issues in my friendships. It does require a high level of objective self-analysis and actually being able to realise when you might be acting on the basis of your attraction instead of your friendship.

I look for a lot of the same things in a partner that I would in a friend, so it's hardly surprising that there would be a crossover

Dudess

loulouth wrote: »

what do you think of friendships between men and woman?

A part of everyday life.

Is there always someone that wants more?

If there's always one party who fancies the other, than yes. But there isn't always one party that fancies the other.

Soul Stretcher

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think men and women can be great friends - as long as there is not sexual attraction on either side...and yes, such platonic friendships are both possible and plentiful.

Agree with this re the Sexual Attraction element.

Especially on the Male side. I think us Men are Past Masters are being good-loyal Labrador type friends, all the time keeping the flame alive, and then when the object of our affections becomes single, or for the more immoral of us off-her-head drunk, we change gears into Greyhound hunt and go-for-the-kill mode.

I think women have more control in this area of their emotions and they tend to have well-defined boxes such as:

• Friendzone material
• Emmm I don't know.. I didn't like him at first but there's something I like about him that's growing on me.
• Aww.. he's lovely.. if only he were single.
• Let me at him ! how is such a Stud-muffin single ?

Men's categories are less well-defined and are much more open to being ignored in times of great sexual frustration and/or drunkenness.

• I'm just not into her at all.
• Sexual release material. Beer Google Queen.
• She's an all-rounder - has it all. It will take a lot of work to make her mine.
• I'd crawl 2 miles on my back carrying a goose on my chest just to kiss the old lipstick-stick she threw in the bin last week.

Count Duckula

It's quite possible. I've got some close friends who are women, and I don't find them sexually attractive and nor do they find me so. I can tell that they're pretty, sure, but that's as far as it goes.

LenaClaire

One of my best friends is a guy. We have been friends for ages (16 yrs? Lord, i feel old), never any interest in each other outside of friendship. I actually introduced him to his wife We have more of a sibling relationship than anything else.

seenitall

28064212 wrote: »

Not sure the bolded part is absolutely necessary, it just makes it a bit trickier. Certainly when I was younger, the whole unrequited love/friendzone thing was depressing, frustrating and caused its fair share of problems. Now though, I have a few female friends who I would definitely be interested in (and a couple of them are very close friends), but I either value their friendship above the possibility of a relationship screwing it up, or they're in a relationship already.

It doesn't cause any issues in my friendships. It does require a high level of objective self-analysis and actually being able to realise when you might be acting on the basis of your attraction instead of your friendship.

I look for a lot of the same things in a partner that I would in a friend, so it's hardly surprising that there would be a crossover

^^^^ This. Absolutely.

Up-n-atom!

I love having male friends but it can be difficult if there is an attraction on either side. My closest male friend from school ended up developing feelings for me and told me about it a couple of times. He was a really good friend of mine and I thought we could continue to be friends but we fell out of contact as soon as we left school - I think it was just to hard for him that I didn't feel the same.

My closest male friend at the moment lives abroad but when I visited him a few months ago he more or less said I could sleep with him if I wanted! Was said in a really casual way too, threw me a bit but I didn't accept his kind offer. He told me later he was in love with another female friend of his but was afraid to tell her (he has since decided he's going to keep it to himself).

So what I'm trying to say is, men and women can definitely be friends but sometimes there are complications...

Dr_Phil

loulouth wrote: »

Hey,
Sorry if this has been done before but what do you think of friendships between men and woman? Is there always someone that wants more?

I think that only when none of them finds the other person attractive (sexually mainly). I personally tried to be a friend with a number of girls and sooner or later we ended up in bed. I've given up on further attempts.

Some of my closest friends are female so it's extremely likely!

Magic Eight Ball

Some of my best and closest friends are female. Believing men and women can't just be friends is the height of immaturity IMO.

Ickle Magoo

28064212 wrote: »

Not sure the bolded part is absolutely necessary, it just makes it a bit trickier.

Perhaps, I suppose it's really down to personal taste and experience.

I don't particularly value friendships that are "trickier" and that I have to be constantly aware that neither they nor I cross any lines or are taken advantage of, watching what I say or whom I discuss for fear of hurting feelings or triggering jealousy, I've tried it and found it more work that they are worth.

My best and most rounded, relaxed, spontaneous and enjoyable friendships with members of the opposite sex all involve people I have never been interested in having a relationship with, and them I - which is why I made the distinction re great friends, rather than mates.

@Magic

Off-topic but - @Magic Eight Ball: it's great to see there's a fellow Kermode enthusiast.

g'em

I'd be lost without my guy friends, the friendship I have with them is pretty different to the ones I have with my girlfriends but no less or more valued.

I don't think I've ever developed feelings for my guy friends - guy acquaintances, sure, but once they're real friends I tend to actively avoid any romantic possibilities because the friendship is too important to me.

I really don't understand this whole thing. Why can't everyone just get along?

Never understood how gender can make any difference in determining friendships. Saying that, I have more guy friends. But my 2/3 closest friends would be girls.

Wibbs

28064212 wrote: »

Not sure the bolded part is absolutely necessary, it just makes it a bit trickier. Certainly when I was younger, the whole unrequited love/friendzone thing was depressing, frustrating and caused its fair share of problems. Now though, I have a few female friends who I would definitely be interested in (and a couple of them are very close friends), but I either value their friendship above the possibility of a relationship screwing it up, or they're in a relationship already.

It doesn't cause any issues in my friendships. It does require a high level of objective self-analysis and actually being able to realise when you might be acting on the basis of your attraction instead of your friendship.

I look for a lot of the same things in a partner that I would in a friend, so it's hardly surprising that there would be a crossover

I get the last paragraph alright, as far as personality type goes, but no way could or would I be around a woman I had current sexual/romantic feelings for. The thought of being around someone you had any sort of a hankering for yet it wasn't gonna happen? God no. No friendship would be worth that. For me anyway. Well it wouldn't be within my personal definition of friendship. Plus I've seen too many men get stuck in this role while thinking they're being all mature about it. And I have to say too many women encouraging it.

Now an ex where there was once sexual feelings yea, no bother. Though for me if there was the full Luuurve(tm) then no.

I suppose I'd be much more on the woman side of Soul Stretcher's equation. I'd broadly agree with his take too. Women IME tend to be more black and white about attraction. It's either there or it's not. It's much more of an on and off switch. Men in general are greyer. Like I say though I'm on/off black/white with only strong drink bringing out the grey. Maybe that's why I can't do the friendship with attraction thing?

cantdecide

Lia_lia wrote: »

...Why can't everyone just get along?...

+1 on this and +1 on the black/ white/ grey thing.

IME, another oddity is when you're perpetually single :rolleyes: you get a vibe from female friends if they become single too. I'll have no interest in someone whatsoever but I'll be treated distrustfully until they find someone new. It's all too complicated for simple old me. Why can't we just get along?

Poor Craythur

Wibbs wrote: »

And I have to say too many women encouraging it.

I would love to be all outraged and say this isn't true, but, yep, I've known manys the woman keep around a guy she has no interest in but who she knows fancies her as a sort of ego boost. Me? Can't do it. It's probably made me seem blunt in the past but if I'm not into a dude who's into to me, I like to help them move on as quickly as possible to someone perhaps more receptive. :pac: For them, but also for me because I find the whole thing uncomfortable.

Earthhorse

There's some overlap between the traits I tend to find desirable in a friend and attractive in a partner so there's always going to be more trouble on this front with female friends than with male friends. That's not to say I find all my female friends attractive nor to say that I can't be friends with someone I'm attracted to (it does become difficult if you're strongly attracted to them and don't ever express it though).

liliq

Ah definitely!
A couple of my closest friends are guys. Most of my guy friends are just that- friends. There has been some cross- over though, where there's been mutual attraction and we've kissed or hooked-up- and it can cause things to get a bit awkward! In saying that, a lot of the times that this has happened, it's been laughed about afterward and become a non- issue! Am probably lucky in that respect. :rolleyes:

Eve_Dublin

I have male friends who I'm only friends with but what I've found in the past and I'm wary of is guys who you think don't have any interest in you THAT way and you become good friends, get to know each other and then they end up turning around one day to tell you they fancy you. This has happened a couple of times for me and once in the last few weeks. I was so disappointed...was this guy only hanging out with me so he could get me in bed (says the cynical, drama queen side of me)? Now that he decides he fancies me does that mean we can't be friends anymore because I'd be accused of "leading him on"? This one particular fella I'm talking about....we get along fantastically well and friends like that in your 30s are not so easy to make and I'm in a different country where I value people like him even more. I really value his friendship but now he's fecked it up (I know not intentionally) and made it all complicated. Do I continue hanging out with in the hope that his feelings will pass or leg it for fear of being accused of trying to get an ego boost? To me that seems quite arrogant as well...."No sorry, I can't hang out with you anymore because you fancy me and you probably won't be able to control your emotions around me because I'm THAT wonderful".

Damned if ye do, damned if ye don't situation.

Stupid bleedin' hormones.

cantdecide

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

...was this guy only hanging out with me so he could get me in bed....Now that he decides he fancies me does that mean we can't be friends anymore...we get along fantastically well....I really value his friendship but now he's fecked it up...Do I continue hanging out with in the hope that his feelings will pass...

That's a dilly of a pickle.

No, I shouldn't think he just wants to get you into bed. By your thirties you have definitely learned that if that's all you want, getting into a 'friendzone' situation isn't the way to do it. So he's on the level, IMO.

The way I'd handle it is confront him and tell him that you want to make clear that all you want from him is friendship. If that isn't enough for him, then he needs to make some decisions. Be matter of fact but gentle. This is no one's fault.

Row things back with him anyway. Don't get into one on one situations with him.

Eve_Dublin

cantdecide wrote: »

That's a dilly of a pickle.

No, I shouldn't think he just wants to get you into bed. By your thirties you have definitely learned that if that's all you want, getting into a 'friendzone' situation isn't the way to do it. So he's on the level, IMO.

The way I'd handle it is confront him and tell him that you want to make clear that all you want from him is friendship. If that isn't enough for him, then he needs to make some decisions. Be matter of fact but gentle. This is no one's fault.

Row things back with him anyway. Don't get into one on one situations with him.

I did already. I made it very clear straight away, so definitely no leading on there. We have mutual friends, so we can avoid being alone easily enough. However, I was out with himself and my other male friend, the other male friend went home early and I continued having a few more beers with the other guy. I had to keep an eye on everything I was saying or doing so it couldn't be miscontrued as flirting. Twas a little stressful so I'll probably avoid that kind of situation happening in the future. I definitely don't want to be one of those women who leads her friends on. Too old for that malarky.

donfers

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I did already. I made it very clear straight away, so definitely no leading on there. We have mutual friends, so we can avoid being alone easily enough. However, I was out with himself and my other male friend, the other male friend went home early and I continued having a few more beers with the other guy. I had to keep an eye on everything I was saying or doing so it couldn't be miscontrued as flirting. Twas a little stressful so I'll probably avoid that kind of situation happening in the future. I definitely don't want to be one of those women who leads her friends on. Too old for that malarky.

fair play to you, you've handled it well and with integrity, if he can't handle it that's he problem, he knows where you stand

grenache

I have just as many female friends as i do male ones, none of which i'm particularly attracted to, and we get on just fine. There is one however who i know would take advantage of me if she could. And if i was really drunk i probably wouldn't stop her!

Poor Craythur

grenache wrote: »

There is one however who i know would take advantage of me if she could. And if i was really drunk i probably wouldn't stop her!

Sounds a bit rapey! :eek:;)

G86

I have some great guy friends, so of course it's possible. I've kissed/dated a few of my current guy friends in the past, and it's grand, because the attraction isn't there anymore. And even if it is on their end, I'm happy to remain oblivious!

28064212

Wibbs wrote: »

I get the last paragraph alright, as far as personality type goes, but no way could or would I be around a woman I had current sexual/romantic feelings for. The thought of being around someone you had any sort of a hankering for yet it wasn't gonna happen? God no. No friendship would be worth that. For me anyway. Well it wouldn't be within my personal definition of friendship. Plus I've seen too many men get stuck in this role while thinking they're being all mature about it.

Oh the bolded bit is definitely true, I should know :pac: But I can look back now and see exactly how it was affecting the friendship. More importantly, I'm now able to objectively look at my current friendships.

I do think there's something in the "grey" vs "black/white" theory (although I'm not sure it's necessarily drawn along gender lines). I know that, personally, virtually every woman I interact with are somewhere on the "I'm attracted" scale, ranging from no interest to obsessive love (although some of them might have negative values :pac:). If I was to cut off contact with anyone that was above zero, my circle of female friends would be practically non-existent.

However, I can see that if I fell into the black/white approach (either no interest or strongly attracted), it would be near impossible to maintain friendships with the ones I was attracted to.

Malari

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I did already. I made it very clear straight away, so definitely no leading on there. We have mutual friends, so we can avoid being alone easily enough. However, I was out with himself and my other male friend, the other male friend went home early and I continued having a few more beers with the other guy. I had to keep an eye on everything I was saying or doing so it couldn't be miscontrued as flirting. Twas a little stressful so I'll probably avoid that kind of situation happening in the future. I definitely don't want to be one of those women who leads her friends on. Too old for that malarky.

I did have a very good friend for years, who in fairness, was pretty up front about the fact that he wanted to go out with me when we met initially. I wasn't interested and told him so, started going out with another guy, but we remained friends. Became best friends. Until he couldn't handle it anymore.

I had broken up with the guy I was seeing and my friend asked me out again. Made it clear he was going crazy just being friends. This was quite surprsing to me, but again I put him straight. I wanted to be attracted to him, and objectively he was good-looking, but I just wasn't! After that things were too strained. As Eve_Dublin says above, it's very stressful not to say anything risky or make innuendo jokes (which I do with my female friends all the time by the way!) and it was awful.

We drifted apart, I still miss him.

boidey

Wibbs wrote: »

I've seen too many men get stuck in this role while thinking they're being all mature about it. And I have to say too many women encouraging it.

^^I wish I didn't agree so strongly with this but experience has taught me otherwise. Keeping a male friend knowing that they are attracted to you for the purposes of self validation or an ego boost is not the behaviour of a genuine friend.

A similar topic is also being discussed on another site I frequent and there was an interesting suggestion to establish a Woman's motivation in keeping a friend in such circumstances. Here is the post in question;

One test that seems to work is to try to help hook the guy up with other girls. If you are hanging out with the guy, he must be okay, so you shouldn't have a problem trying to hook them up with some of your single girlfriends. Many girls who don't realize that they enjoy the "lead the guy on" game will realize this when she doesn't want to date the guy and she doesn't want the guy to date other girls! There is a lot of self validation and good feeling with knowing that someone likes you, but you are really friends with that person, you'll try to hook him up so he won't be tortured by being around you but having no chance.

If you think, "I'm not going to hook him up with my girlfriends, he's a loser", then you are probably using him for self validation. Or if you find yourself not wanting him to be taken, then you are also using him for self validation. But if you are truly a good friend and you help pair him up with some other girl, he will be happy and you can be platonic friends without the sexual tension of him liking you and you not being interested

Soul Stretcher

Eve-Dublin... I'd put money on your friend always finding you attractive, but he (quite logically in fairness to him) got to know you first before coming clean with you.

The decision is his to make as to whether to continue friendship. I have been where he is now. And with hindsight, he should cool things with you pronto. But the heart/attraction/desire is an unharnessed beast in a lot of men, and the titillation and excitement of maybe actually, against the odds, getting you into the leaba may drive him on to keep on your periphery like an eagle waiting for his chance.

That life, for him, is hell though. It's just that it is SO hard to walk away when you like someone and fancy her, you kinda hope her attraction switch will flick on at some stage and you want to be around when/if it does !

From a clinical viewpoint, the best thing he can do is forget about you and start interacting with other women who might like him back THAT way.

Poor Craythur

boidey wrote: »

^^I wish I didn't agree so strongly with this but experience has taught me otherwise. Keeping a male friend knowing that they are attracted to you for the purposes of self validation or an ego boost is not the behaviour of a genuine friend

I said much the same thing in an earlier post. I personally have always tried to dissuade them from liking me. Sometimes I over-egg the pudding a bit and they end up thinking I'm a bitch. Better that though, I reckon, then using them to validate myself.

Azureus

I think you cand definately be friends with the opposite sex, I would find it weird if all my friends were girls, just as I would find it strange if all my friends were guys-I like having a well rounded circle of people around me.
My best friend is a guy and like my big brother. In our group there are loads of guys that I would get on brilliantly with and who I know would never cross a line with me, as I would never with them. Many of em are good looking blokes, but I just wouldnt see them in that way and vice versa.

I have had the situation where supposedly great friends have decided to make a move or acting inappropriately towards me, and in these cases I'm pretty sure they were only ever after one thing (hindsight an all that). But I keep my distance with people like these. If a friend developed feelings/attraction towards me, it wouldnt mean we couldnt be friends I would just explain my side and help him find someone even more fabulous!

Kya1976

Yes of course, I never had a problem with it.

grenache

Poor Craythur wrote: »

Sounds a bit rapey! :eek:;)

Meh, not really. I'd probably consent - with beer goggles on of course!

Bottle_of_Smoke

Is it something that's more common amongst teenagers/early 20s?

Back then a majority of my friends were female, currently have zero active female friends. By active I mean talk to/hang out with regularly. I'm nearing 26 now.

Ickle Magoo

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Is it something that's more common amongst teenagers/early 20s?

Having friends of the opposite sex?

Bottle_of_Smoke

yes, close friends like.

Ickle Magoo

I don't think so - I have had a mix through-out my life...there are a couple of people I know that absolutely favour friendships with their own gender but most people I know would have a mix or at least be part of a close group that is made up of both genders. I guess it depends a lot on life experiences as well, when I was a student the majority of my class were male and so not having plenty of male friends was more difficult than not - and I still have many of them...

cantdecide

As a guy, some of my closest friends are female but I have very few generally even though I get on better with women. Circumstances have a big part to play. I've always worked in construction and I think this goes some of the way to explaining my situation.

Gerry Manderer

I think a girl can absolutely be a friend with a guy whom she has no romantic feelings for, no problem. A guy on the other hand will very rarely be friends with a girl in the absence of some sort of romantic/sexual tie. I think most guys attitude would be that if a girl is not fulfilling some sort of emotional/romantic/sexual need in him then why bother?

Friendship needs can and usually are better met through male friends (be it through sport, pub etc whatever) as they are more likely to have more in common than with a member of the opposite sex.

Now many ladies here may counter this by saying Oh no sure I have lots of male friends and there is absolutely no interest on either side. But this is viewing it through a female mindset which can accommodate such a reality much more easily. It may not be palatable for me to suggest that there would be feelings from the male friend in this scenario but I firmly believe there has to be(even on a minute scale and either past or present) for it to continue as a longterm friendship.

Ickle Magoo

So there's no such thing as gay men, then?

Gerry Manderer

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So there's no such thing as gay men, then?

Is this in response to my view? I'm talking about the platonic nature of male/female relationships and whether it can truly exist, not sure where you are coming from

Ickle Magoo

Your post appears to be claiming that platonic friendships don't actually exist and there are always feeling on the side of the male, which can only be seen by not viewing the situation through "the female mindset". I think that's complete tosh anyway, but it also completely fails to recognise that men and women aren't always attracted to each others gender, far less each other.

It's far too simplistic to make a claim that men fancy the women they are friends with and sure it's just unpalatable for the wimminz and their funny mindset to consider that...perhaps it's just the unpalatable thought that some men, at certain stages or ages, are incapable of having a platonic friendship with a woman/women based on their own mindset?

Gerry Manderer

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Your post appears to be claiming that platonic friendships don't actually exist and there are always feeling on the side of the male, which can only be seen by not viewing the situation through "the female mindset". I think that's complete tosh anyway, but it also completely fails to recognise that men and women aren't always attracted to each others gender, far less each other.

It's far too simplistic to make a claim that men fancy the women they are friends with and sure it's just unpalatable for the wimminz and their funny mindset to consider that...perhaps it's just the unpalatable thought that some men, at certain stages or ages, are incapable of having a platonic friendship with a woman/women based on their own mindset?

I don't see how this comes into it you are extending my point beyond the context it was made in i.e. male/female relationships

Yes that is too simplistic but that's your deduction it's not what I said. I am merely saying that in my view there has to some sort of attraction at a very base (perhaps even subconcious) level on a man's part to continue platonic friendship

Ickle Magoo

Well, everyone needs some kind of attraction to draw us together to be friends - that goes without saying, surely...but that's a world away from suggesting there has to be some kind of sexual attraction in order for men to be friends with women...which is where my confusion regarding different sexualities began; platonic just means minus sexual relations, it makes no comment on gender or sexuality.