Help! Can't hit anything with the bottom barrel

Remmie 223

I got a clay trap from duffy's in Galway last Monday & yesterday got a chance to try it out, now I only have the shotgun a few weeks so go easy on me. I can hit most clays with the top barrel, but I can't hit anything with the bottom one. I have tried aiming slightly higher but no good. Is it just practice? Any tips or tricks welcome

lb1981

Your firing too quick let the clay out and your shot should spread, use 28g and shot will spread quicker.

lb1981

Im presuming your bottom barrel is firing first when you shoot.

Cass

Try firing bottom barrel first. Most O/U shotguns have a slightly inclined bottom barrel, whereas the top barrel runs "level".

Remmie 223

lb1981 wrote: »

Im presuming your bottom barrel is firing first when you shoot.

Double trigger lb. & front trigger fire's the bottom barrel

You could be twisting the gun. Putting the bottom barrell off by a bit.

mixerbarcoe

lb1981 wrote: »

Your firing too quick let the clay out and your shot should spread, use 28g and shot will spread quicker.

id go with what lb1981 is saying..think your firing abit to quick..im sure u'll get the hang of it soon enuf...

lb1981

mixerbarcoe wrote: »

id go with what lb1981 is saying..think your firing abit to quick..im sure u'll get the hang of it soon enuf...

I use to do it myself when i started off, cost me many a left and right on pheasants.After a while you will get to judge what range you should fire your first shot at and it will all become second nature.

Remmie 223

Thanks lads, all taken on board I will try and figure out what exactly I am doing. I was thinking I might open up a bag manure bag put an x on it , put it up at height (tree/telephone pole) fire each barrel at it & see where the bottom barrel is going

macl

What choke have you got in the barrel ? Might be worth checking that aswell (depending on the range your shooting clays at)

blackstairsboy

I would not recommend twisting the gun or altering your way of shooting in any way. The gun should fit the person not the other way around. I would get the chokes checked out as for normal rough shooting 1/4 and 1/2 or cylinder and 1/4 is what is required in my opinion. If the gun is choked too tightly your shot will not have spread very much in 20 yards or so which might mean a miss and then when the target is 30 yards away a greater spread will mean a better chance of a kill.
It may be a case of taking time to get used to the gun which is a great excuse to go away and spend a large proportion of the familys GDP on cartridges and clays:D:D

kemen

practice practice practice, dont get thick and give up anyway!! a common mistake wud be trying to aim, u maybe trying to rifle shoot the target which may lead to stopping the gun and missing behind! DONT LOOK AT THE BARRELS. you should consentrate on the target.. u could always pattern your gun and shells to see where your shooting to.

tfox

kemen wrote: »

practice practice practice, dont get thick and give up anyway!! a common mistake wud be trying to aim, u maybe trying to rifle shoot the target which may lead to stopping the gun and missing behind! DONT LOOK AT THE BARRELS. you should consentrate on the target.. u could always pattern your gun and shells to see where your shooting to.

I agree with not tring to aim, as I was told as a young boy you aim a rifle and point a shotgun just keep practising and dont get stressed out !!

Double Barrel

Remmie

Put a one meter square piece of cardboard with an X in the centre, on a timber stake, set it out at 16 yards in a field and AIM at the X. Only fire the one barrel.
Let me know where you hit. Better yet post a photo of it.

Remmie 223

Double Barrel wrote: »

Remmie

Put a one meter square piece of cardboard with an X in the centre, on a timber stake, set it out at 16 yards in a field and AIM at the X. Only fire the one barrel.
Let me know where you hit. Better yet post a photo of it.

Thanks DB, i will see if i can have a go at that, tomorrow evening

Remmie 223

16 yards from the end of the barrels to the center of the target. nsi.uno Prima 7 1/2. 28g. As you can see high, and to the left, with the bottom barrel??????

Spunk84

Try getting a plastic hand trap and use that first, Is it one of those traps you sit on or an automatic? I found when I started off shooting with a clay trap it was actual throwing the clays to fast and too far for me:o so I was told to use a handheld one first, you won't throw it as far as the trap but you will have it close enough to shoot the clays. As for the second barrel, once you start hitting the clays with the first barrel the second shot will become second nature for you. LOL it just takes alot of practise, I used to buy 3000 shells for 40'dollars in Wal-Mart and spend hours blasting clays before I even brought my gun into the field.

Double Barrel

Remmie

It is no wonder why you are missing.
Does this gun have fixed or screw in chokes?
Is that a 3" circle?

lb1981

Your gun is haunted :eek:

Remmie 223

Double Barrel wrote: »

Remmie

It is no wonder why you are missing.
Does this gun have fixed or screw in chokes?
Is that a 3" circle?

Screw in chokes & that is a 4" circle

Spunk84

Remmie 223 wrote: »

16 yards from the end of the barrels to the center of the target. nsi.uno Prima 7 1/2. 28g. As you can see high, and to the left, with the bottom barrel??????

isnt the second shot supposed to be lower does your second barrel
have a choke? maybe the choke is maybe bent? Also i like how you back garden is a prime shooting spot LOL

Remmie 223

Spunk84 wrote: »

isnt the second shot supposed to be lower does your second barrel
have a choke? maybe the choke is maybe bent? Also i like how you back garden is a prime shooting spot LOL

You would think the second shot should be lower
second barrel has a choke, maybe the wrong one
Brand new gun
Ya i'm pretty lucky with the back garden & no one shooting within a 10 mile radius of me. "all mine":D

Double Barrel

Remmie,

You may have a bad choke - not likely- but that would be the easiest fix.
So change chokes top to bottom and see if that helps. Next would be to buy a different brand of choke tube. Change ammo brand.

When we buy shotguns off the shelf there are a few things we as owners and shooters have to keep in mind. Double gun barrels are put together. They are not regulated. They are not shot for Point Of Impact. They are put together in a jig or fixture that is set up to give a convergence point somewhere from 30 to 40 yards depending on the maker and the gauge. The "convergence" is just the center line of both bores crossing visually, not where two projectiles would cross because projectiles come in various weights and velocities. Barrels made with reasonable care will regulate reasonably well. Better than "reasonably well" is expensive. So, only guns with a profit margin that allows expensive hand work will be hand regulated.
Average grades of anyones guns would not be hand regulated.
If you have got the money and can specify shot weight and velocity then gunmakers can produce barrels that will shoot anywhere you want them to. Lacking the money the makers do the next best thing which is to line up the tubes visually. Sometimes things don't go so well and one barrel fires up and the other fires to the side. If the divergence isn't much it can sometimes be corrected by muzzle work but that's a bit of a hit or miss, ... much depends on barrel wall thickness and the skill of the smith.

Remmie 223

Double Barrel wrote: »

Remmie,

You may have a bad choke - not likely- but that would be the easiest fix.
So change chokes top to bottom and see if that helps. Next would be to buy a different brand of choke tube. Change ammo brand.

When we buy shotguns off the shelf there are a few things we as owners and shooters have to keep in mind. Double gun barrels are put together. They are not regulated. They are not shot for Point Of Impact. They are put together in a jig or fixture that is set up to give a convergence point somewhere from 30 to 40 yards depending on the maker and the gauge. The "convergence" is just the center line of both bores crossing visually, not where two projectiles would cross because projectiles come in various weights and velocities. Barrels made with reasonable care will regulate reasonably well. Better than "reasonably well" is expensive. So, only guns with a profit margin that allows expensive hand work will be hand regulated.
Average grades of anyones guns would not be hand regulated.
If you have got the money and can specify shot weight and velocity then gunmakers can produce barrels that will shoot anywhere you want them to. Lacking the money the makers do the next best thing which is to line up the tubes visually. Sometimes things don't go so well and one barrel fires up and the other fires to the side. If the divergence isn't much it can sometimes be corrected by muzzle work but that's a bit of a hit or miss, ... much depends on barrel wall thickness and the skill of the smith.

Thanks DB
I suspect wrong choke in the bottom barrel, when i picked up the gun, my dealer noticed, bottom choke missing. He pulled out an old biscuit from under the counter, after a long..... root around he picked one out, and said i think this is the one, screwed it in with a 5 cent coin & said there you go.:rolleyes:

Double Barrel

Remmie,

Take it back and "demand" - nicely at first - the proper choke for the gun, or a new gun with the proper chokes.
What chokes do you have in the gun now, cylinder and IC ?

BTW were there any pellet strikes in the 4" circle ? I did not see any.

kemen

did any1 check if the gun actually fits you. when u patterned the shells did you hold and rifle aim at the target or move to the target like u would a clay?

Double Barrel

And demand a choke wrench made for the gun and choke.

Remmie 223

Double Barrel wrote: »

Remmie,

Take it back and "demand" - nicely at first - the proper choke for the gun, or a new gun with the proper chokes.
What chokes do you have in the gun now, cylinder and IC ?

BTW were there any pellet strikes in the 4" circle ? I did not see any.

Excuse my ignorance, i don't know the difference between the chokes you mention. There was no pellets in the circle with the bottom barrel

Remmie 223

kemen wrote: »

did any1 check if the gun actually fits you. when u patterned the shells did you hold and rifle aim at the target or move to the target like u would a clay?

Hi kemen
I was hitting clays consistently with the top barrel & missing with the bottom hence the test, The gun feels right.

Double Barrel

When you remove the screw in choke from the barrel there will be a number or letters stamped on the choke which will reference the amount of constriction of the particular choke.

http://www.briley.com/understandingshotgunchokesabriefexplanationbybriley.aspx

http://www.teagueprecisionchokesltd.co.uk/reference_chart.html

Spunk84

Double Barrel wrote: »

And demand a choke wrench made for the gun and choke.

and dont forget to choke the idoit as will, a gun dealer giving a piece of crap like that is a disgrace, thats why there losing money selling people dirt.:mad:

kemen

id get an experiences clay shooter to check the fit and how your eye linea up with the rib, it just seems u maybe to high and to the left a fraction judging by the density of shot in both pics

Double Barrel

Remmie 223 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, i don't know the difference between the chokes you mention. There was no pellets in the circle with the bottom barrel

The constriction is the difference between the tightest inside diameter measurement of the area of choke, and the actual bore diameter. A typical 12 gauge barrel has an inside diameter of .729" the chokes for this bore size would run from cylinder at .729" to Full at .689".
A Cylinder has no discernible choke .000
A Improved Cylinder is a 1/4 choke .010, the actual physical measurement of choke in .001's (thousandths of an inch)

Double Barrel

Remmie

In photo #3 can you find the centre charge - area with the most pellets in a 4" circle, you can eyeball this. - and measure distance from centre to centre.

Double Barrel

Remmie

O/Us typically shoot the lower barrel first. Because the bottom barrel lies below the line of comb, the gun recoils straight back into the shoulder upon firing. Besides being less painful, "straight-line" recoil comes back, well, in a straight line, and it's easier for the shooter to keep the gun on target for the second shot.
Target shooters believe an O/U's top over bottom barrel arrangement kicks less and allows them to deliver their second shot faster than they can with any other combination. Chances are you wouldn't notice any difference in the field, but in clay target competition where recoil fatigue becomes a real factor and a fast, well-placed second shot can make the difference between an X and O, competitive shooters think O/U has the edge.
They vote with their wallets.

Kemen,
Point of impact testing in this instance is purely used to determine where the gun is shooting. It can also be used to determine if there is an underlining problem with the gun……….many double barrelled guns i.e. o/u and sxs, are found to have two barrels shooting in different locations. In addition, some barrels have integral chokes or removable chokes fitted eccentrically to the barrel which causes the point of impact to be significantly off target.

kemen

maybe the chokes ate fooked but IMO he's lookin down the left side of the barrels going from poi which will have to looked at..

Remmie 223

I spoke with my dealer & i am going to see him tomorrow afternoon. He said he would play around with the chokes. Here are some photo's with the chokes in & the bottom choke out. I could not take out the top choke as i do not have a key. I don't know if this will give any clues.

Double Barrel

I don't know what kind of deal you had with with the shop but a new Lanber as per the factory web site is shipped with Five flush-fitting choke tubes , cylinder, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full, a key, packaged in a ABS travel case, are supplied as standard. http://www.lanber.net/fielde.html

Ardee is the importer.

Good luck and stand your ground.