Immigrant parents claiming citizenship.

marmurr1916

RandomName2 wrote: »

Or you can summarise that by saying the the ECJ (the powers of which were extended under Lisbon)

The Treaty of Lisbon has nothing to do with this. The ECJ based its ruling on provisions that were put into the EU treaties by the Treaty of Maastricht.

RandomName2 wrote: »

has decided that non-EU parents of Irish children are granted indefinite residence.

Should an Irish citizen gain permanent residence in the United States if they give birth there after being resident for 3 years?

That would be up to the US government to decide. US law states that anyone born on US territory is a US citizen. Ireland had similar laws until they were changed after the 2004 referendum.

It's up to the Irish government to decide whether or not to grant citizenship to children born in Ireland to non-Irish parents and what qualifying period of residence, if any, there should be.

There is nothing to stop the Irish government from changing the law so that non-Irish parents must have resided in Ireland for 99 out of the previous 100 years before any children born in Ireland were entitled to claim Irish citizenship.

RandomName2 wrote: »

Do note that application for asylum, the appeal process, and the European court appeal process can take a couple of years in itself.

Noted. Irrelevant.

Only the non-Irish parents of Irish citizen children get the right to stay in Ireland, as long as the children remain dependent on the parents, according to this ECJ judgment.

For a child to become an Irish citizen, the non-Irish parents of a child born in Ireland must not only have resided in Ireland for 3 out of the previous 4 years, but must also have been entitled to reside in Ireland without restriction for that period.

Asylum seekers, unless granted refugee status or indefinite leave to remain (at which point they cease to be asylum seekers), are not entitled to reside in Ireland without restriction.

Periods of residency with restrictions, such as a period of residency as a student or asylum seeker, are not counted towards the 3 years:

(4) A period of residence in the State shall not be reckonable for the purposes of calculating a period of residence under section 6A if—
(a) it is in contravention of section 5(1) of the Act of 2004,
(b) it is in accordance with a permission given to a person under section 4 of the Act of 2004 for the purpose of enabling him or her to engage in a course of education or study in the State, or
(c) it consists of a period during which a person (other than a person who was, during that period, a national of a Member State, an EEA state or the Swiss Confederation) referred to in subsection (2) of section 9 (amended by section 7(c)(i) of the Act of 2003) of the Act of 1996 is entitled to remain in the State in accordance only with the said subsection.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a3804.pdf

What is the "Act of 1996"? It's the Refugee Act, 1996:

‘Act of 1996’ means the Refugee Act 1996

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a3804.pdf

Who is "a person...referred to in subscection (2) of section 9 (amended by section 7(c)(i) of the Act of 2003 of the Act of 1996" and "entitled to remain in the State in accordance only with the said subsection"?

Such a person is:

A person who arrives at the frontiers of the State seeking asylum in the State or seeking the protection of the State against persecution or requesting not to be returned or removed to a particular country or otherwise indicating an unwillingness to leave the State for fear of persecution

In other words, an asylum seeker.

Therefore, the law makes it clear that any period of residency in Ireland spent as an asylum seeker is not counted towards the 3 years that are necessary to allow the Irish-born children of non-Irish parents to gain Irish citizenship.

In summary, this ECJ ruling only applies to the non-EU citizen parents of children who are already Irish citizens.

It only applies when those Irish citizen children are resident in Ireland and while they remain dependent on their parents.

This ECJ ruling does not have any impact on the rules governing who does or doesn't get Irish citizenship - including the rules surrounding children born in Ireland to non-Irish parents.

Those rules are set by the Irish government and will continue to be set by the Irish government.

The rules governing Irish citizenship state that the non-Irish parents of a child born in Ireland must have been resident without restriction for at least 3 out of the 4 years immediately before the child's birth. Only then does the child become eligible for Irish citizenship.

Periods of residency spent as an asylum seeker or as a student do not count towards calculating the period of time a non-Irish person has been resident without restriction.

marmurr1916

The government is to review the cases of non-Irish parents of Irish citizen children:

THE RIGHTS of the non-Irish parents of Irish citizen children to live and work in Ireland are to be examined urgently by the Department of Justice, Minister for Justice Alan Shatter has announced.

In a major shift in Government policy following a recent ruling by the European Court of Justice (ECJ), Mr Shatter has asked for an examination of all cases before the courts where such parents are fighting deportation, along with a review of cases where deportation is being considered to see if the ECJ ruling might apply. There are about 120 such cases at present before the courts.

The department will also look at cases where the non-Irish parents of Irish children have already been deported to see if they are affected by the ruling, he said.

The ECJ ruling is binding on Ireland and relates to a Colombian family called Zambrano living in Belgium, where the children were Belgian citizens. The court said that the state could not refuse a non-EU national the right to live and work in an EU state where doing so would deprive his or her minor children the enjoyment of their rights as EU citizens.

Mr Shatter told The Irish Times that in most simple cases Irish citizen children were entitled to have both parents live with them in Ireland. “Where there is an intact and real relationship there is very little doubt the child is entitled to both parents living with them in the State,” he said.

But he said the State might refuse residency to non-EU parents of Irish citizen children if they had engaged in serious crime.

“There may be exceptions that will have to be teased out. For example if the non-EU parent of an Irish citizen child is involved in serious criminality – the judgment doesn’t deal with that – we may require further clarification from the ECJ.”

He said parents of Irish citizen children who had been deported could now apply to return to Ireland. “They are in a position where they can communicate with the Department of Justice and their situation will be reviewed. Unless there are exceptional circumstances that entitle the State to refuse them they should be able to come back,” he said.

He said he disagreed with elements of the previous government’s immigration policy.

“We need to reconsider the manner in which issues have been dealt with in the past. We need to deal in a humanitarian and common-sense way with claims but also ensure the system isn’t abused. There are also logjams to be dealt with,” said Mr Shatter.

He said he would bring the Immigration Residence and Protection Bill back to the committee stage in the Dáil. But he would propose substantial amendments to it.

He said a possible approach to this issue was to wait for pending cases to be determined by the Irish courts, and for them to interpret the ECJ ruling. However, the Government had agreed to be proactive and not tie up the courts unnecessarily or ask eligible families to wait longer than necessary.

“This initiative is being taken in the best interests of the welfare of eligible minor Irish citizen children and to ensure that the taxpayer is not exposed to any unnecessary additional legal costs,” he said.

He added that it was important to understand that the judgment applied only where the child is a citizen and had no implications whatever for Irish citizenship law, which remained a matter for the Oireachtas under the Constitution.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0322/1224292776603.html

AlekSmart

Would Mr Shatter`s comments have a certain relevance to the Pamela Izevbekhai case I wonder ?

Although little has been heard of it for some time now,the essential elements would appear to be in place,although there could well be some debate on this apsect of Minister Shatter`s comments....

Mr Shatter told The Irish Times that in most simple cases Irish citizen children were entitled to have both parents live with them in Ireland. “Where there is an intact and real relationship there is very little doubt the child is entitled to both parents living with them in the State,” he said.

But he said the State might refuse residency to non-EU parents of Irish citizen children if they had engaged in serious crime.

“There may be exceptions that will have to be teased out. For example if the non-EU parent of an Irish citizen child is involved in serious criminality – the judgment doesn’t deal with that – we may require further clarification from the ECJ.”

Hmmm,I expect the "Clarification" industry will be one of our major growth areas in the decades to come

RandomName2

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Noted. Irrelevant.

Only the non-Irish parents of Irish citizen children get the right to stay in Ireland, as long as the children remain dependent on the parents, according to this ECJ judgment.

For a child to become an Irish citizen, the non-Irish parents of a child born in Ireland must not only have resided in Ireland for 3 out of the previous 4 years, but must also have been entitled to reside in Ireland without restriction for that period.

Asylum seekers, unless granted refugee status or indefinite leave to remain (at which point they cease to be asylum seekers), are not entitled to reside in Ireland without restriction.

Periods of residency with restrictions, such as a period of residency as a student or asylum seeker, are not counted towards the 3 years:



http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a3804.pdf

What is the "Act of 1996"? It's the Refugee Act, 1996:



http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a3804.pdf

Who is "a person...referred to in subscection (2) of section 9 (amended by section 7(c)(i) of the Act of 2003 of the Act of 1996" and "entitled to remain in the State in accordance only with the said subsection"?

Such a person is:


In other words, an asylum seeker.

Therefore, the law makes it clear that any period of residency in Ireland spent as an asylum seeker is not counted towards the 3 years that are necessary to allow the Irish-born children of non-Irish parents to gain Irish citizenship.

In summary, this ECJ ruling only applies to the non-EU citizen parents of children who are already Irish citizens.

It only applies when those Irish citizen children are resident in Ireland and while they remain dependent on their parents.

This ECJ ruling does not have any impact on the rules governing who does or doesn't get Irish citizenship - including the rules surrounding children born in Ireland to non-Irish parents.

Those rules are set by the Irish government and will continue to be set by the Irish government.

The rules governing Irish citizenship state that the non-Irish parents of a child born in Ireland must have been resident without restriction for at least 3 out of the 4 years immediately before the child's birth. Only then does the child become eligible for Irish citizenship.

Periods of residency spent as an asylum seeker or as a student do not count towards calculating the period of time a non-Irish person has been resident without restriction.

Well if that's the case, then that's fine; at least for Ireland.

walrusgumble

AlekSmart wrote: »

Would Mr Shatter`s comments have a certain relevance to the Pamela Izevbekhai case I wonder ?

Although little has been heard of it for some time now,the essential elements would appear to be in place,although there could well be some debate on this apsect of Minister Shatter`s comments....



Hmmm,I expect the "Clarification" industry will be one of our major growth areas in the decades to come

What has Pamela Izevbekhai got to do with this? Any of her children Irish Citizens as per Section 6 A of the Citizenship Act? (not enough to simply be born in Ireland) If none of her children are Irish then this is not relevant to her.

The matter really only relates to no more than possibly 200 families, or just 200 people (as in most cases, only one parent is affected / threatened with deportation) Shatter is pretty clear, he is going to comply with the judgment and will probably rather just give them their residence in the quite as oppose to further court cases so that he reduces the costs on the tax payers. "The Clarification" industry will probably be happy with this alright. Decades to come? Hardly. Somehow I don't see an mass interest of non eu's coming and jumping into bed with Irish citizens / or non eu people who are legal in Ireland simply to stay here as their student visas are up and / or their asylum claims failed. But, sure, time will tell

AlekSmart

walrusgumble wrote: »

What has Pamela Izevbekhai got to do with this? Any of her children Irish Citizens as per Section 6 A of the Citizenship Act? (not enough to simply be born in Ireland) If none of her children are Irish then this is not relevant to her.........

. .........Somehow I don't see an mass interest of non eu's coming and jumping into bed with Irish citizens / or non eu people who are legal in Ireland simply to stay here as their student visas are up and / or their asylum claims failed. But, sure, time will tell

Ain`t that the truth

donkey balls

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ain`t that the truth

I have seen a few eastern european girls and Irish girls who have had children with non EU nationals,One of them came out of the dole office today as I walked by as they say watch this space.

old hippy

Lots of Irish over here (London) claiming the dole. And at the same time, complaining about Central Europeans, Nigerians et al. The irony.

metrovelvet

donkey balls wrote: »

I have seen a few eastern european girls and Irish girls who have had children with non EU nationals,One of them came out of the dole office today as I walked by as they say watch this space.

There are also foreign mothers who have had babies with Irish men and cant work here and its causing some problems...where teh child should live...etc..the mom being forced to go back home etc.

walrusgumble

metrovelvet wrote: »

There are also foreign mothers who have had babies with Irish men and cant work here and its causing some problems...where teh child should live...etc..the mom being forced to go back home etc.

what is stoping the child from living here with the father? fathers not capable of rearing children on their own? what jobs are there now anyway?

K-9

walrusgumble wrote: »

what is stoping the child from living here with the father? fathers not capable of rearing children on their own? what jobs are there now anyway?

It should be an option but I wonder would the courts side with the father on it. I've my doubts.

freeze4real

I thiught thus new ruling it bill was only for asylum seekers only. When will this take into effect.

southsiderosie

walrusgumble wrote: »

what is stoping the child from living here with the father? fathers not capable of rearing children on their own? what jobs are there now anyway?

K-9 wrote: »

It should be an option but I wonder would the courts side with the father on it. I've my doubts.

But even if the courts were to grant primary custody to the father (which I agree under Irish family law is unlikely), shouldn't the child have the right to have access to both parents?

In some ways, I think the permission to remain rules will end up protecting Irish father in 'mixed' couples, as the mother will not have the excuse of needing to go back home to work in order to support their child.

K-9

southsiderosie wrote: »

But even if the courts were to grant primary custody to the father (which I agree under Irish family law is unlikely), shouldn't the child have the right to have access to both parents?

In some ways, I think the permission to remain rules will end up protecting Irish father in 'mixed' couples, as the mother will not have the excuse of needing to go back home to work in order to support their child.

It's a real wisdom of Solomon one!

freeze4real

surefinder wrote: »

my wife is a nurse and have a working visa. i'm her dependent, because of shortage on nurses their spouse were entitled to spousal/working permit if found a job. details are in www.entemp.ie.. my wife pays taxes and so do I when I'm working. I am not entitled to social welfare as my wife salary is above the cut off although it is not enough, better if i work. we're 6years already and can apply for naturaliuzation which will take 26months. on those 26months we will be thight on our finances, hence it is good if I got a residency status to help our household and support our child.

My dad was in the same situation with the above poster.

The Irish immigration system is a complete joke. It's one of thr slowest among the eu member of states.

My mum has been living here for 7 years working as a nurse but she hasnt been giving a permeant green card.

My sister is an Irish born citizen but she doesn't have an Irish passport.

The Irish immigration system are only interested in money.

And what pisses me off is the deportation of legal immigrants who would like to work while those illegal immigrant do nothing living on thr dole and scamming the society.

Its about time the Irish government woke up. They need to make changes that benefits those who would like to contribute to the Irish society.

I've gone off topic but I needed to vent out my frustation and anger at this system.

oscarBravo

freeze4real wrote: »

My sister is an Irish born citizen but she doesn't have an Irish passport.

Why not? Every Irish citizen is entitled to an Irish passport.

walrusgumble

freeze4real wrote: »

My dad was in the same situation with the above poster.

The Irish immigration system is a complete joke. It's one of thr slowest among the eu member of states.

My mum has been living here for 7 years working as a nurse but she hasnt been giving a permeant green card.

My sister is an Irish born citizen but she doesn't have an Irish passport.

The Irish immigration system are only interested in money.

And what pisses me off is the deportation of legal immigrants who would like to work while those illegal immigrant do nothing living on thr dole and scamming the society.

Its about time the Irish government woke up. They need to make changes that benefits those who would like to contribute to the Irish society.

I've gone off topic but I needed to vent out my frustation and anger at this system.

It costs no more than €80 for an irish passport for the child. Are you doubly sure that the father or mother meet the reckonable residency requirement under section 6 a of inc act 1956-2004 in order for child to be deemed a citizen. (no stamp 1a or 2, 2a)

I believe that the immigration system is slow for a reason - to discourage immigrants in applying for residency.

THe green card permit is a matter for the dept of trade and employment and not immigration. Where was the legislative guarantee of permanent green card after the normal 4-5 years of work permit. There is no guarantee. Why was the green card not given? Who does that effect one's permission to remain in the country. How can the government give your hard work wife a post which they can not guarantee will be available within 6 months? You notice alot of hospital facilities are closing. I hope you and you wife get sorted.


Well, then you would not like the Zambrano case then if your child was not Irish and you saw the type of people who are really benefiting (well you will as if the child is Irish. you are aware of Zambrano? )

"Its about time the Irish government woke up. They need to make changes that benefits those who would like to contribute to the Irish society. "

HERE HERE. I would prefer to see the government rewarding or supporting skilled immigrants who worked hard and stayed in Ireland during the good and now bad times.

ray011

freeze4real wrote: »

My dad was in the same situation with the above poster.

The Irish immigration system is a complete joke. It's one of thr slowest among the eu member of states.

My mum has been living here for 7 years working as a nurse but she hasnt been giving a permeant green card.

My sister is an Irish born citizen but she doesn't have an Irish passport.

The Irish immigration system are only interested in money.

And what pisses me off is the deportation of legal immigrants who would like to work while those illegal immigrant do nothing living on thr dole and scamming the society.

Its about time the Irish government woke up. They need to make changes that benefits those who would like to contribute to the Irish society.

I've gone off topic but I needed to vent out my frustation and anger at this system.

They need to protect the 'real irish' - people like myself and other out of work Irish workers whos generation of families founded and built this country.

They need to put a ban on all immigration into this country. Sometimes i walk down the road and think to myself is this Poland, Nigeria or slovakia or is this Ireland.

I read in the paper the other day that there are Al Queda terrorist cells operating in Ireland and I just think whats going on with this liberal immigration system of ours.

People born here shouldn't automatically be entitled to Irish Citizenship along with their parents. its just bizarre. its inviting all sorts of trouble down the line.

Monife

ray011 wrote: »

They need to protect the 'real irish' - people like myself and other out of work Irish workers whos generation of families founded and built this country.

Who really are the "real irish"?? A lot of Irish married British people, so you can't exactly call them "real irish".

ray011 wrote: »

They need to put a ban on all immigration into this country. Sometimes i walk down the road and think to myself is this Poland, Nigeria or slovakia or is this Ireland.

Oh, please! Don't you realise how much money non-Irish people contribute to this country? HUGE student fees, workers paying taxes, whenever they buy something they are paying tax.

ray011 wrote: »

People born here shouldn't automatically be entitled to Irish Citizenship along with their parents. its just bizarre. its inviting all sorts of trouble down the line.

They don't. Their parents need to legally resident for 3 years previous to the childs birth and need to be economically active or be able to sustain themselves without recourse to public funds. Another way, is if one parent is British or Irish, then the child is an Irish citizen. They are not automically entitled to jack s**t. There are a number of rules, regulations and conditions they must fulfil first.

ray011

Monife wrote: »

They don't. Their parents need to legally resident for 3 years previous to the childs birth and need to be economically active or be able to sustain themselves without recourse to public funds. Another way, is if one parent is British or Irish, then the child is an Irish citizen. They are not automically entitled to jack s**t. There are a number of rules, regulations and conditions they must fulfil first.

not true ! if a child is born here then the parents have to be allowed stay here and allowed work to look after the child. I'm not talking about citizenship I'm talking about the rights of people to live and work in Ireland.

recent ruling of the Court of Justice of the European Union in the case of Ruiz Zambrano.

"As the Court has stated several times, citizenship of the Union is intended to be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States.
In those circumstances, Article 20 TFEU precludes national measures which have the effect of depriving citizens of the Union of the genuine enjoyment of the substance of the rights conferred by virtue of their status as citizens of the Union.
A refusal to grant a right of residence to a third country national with dependent minor children in the Member State where those children are nationals and reside, and also a refusal to grant such a person a work permit, has such an effect.
"

you can find more about this on minister alan shatters website.

By the way I am assuming you're an immigrant.

old hippy

ray011 wrote: »

They need to protect the 'real irish' - people like myself and other out of work Irish workers whos generation of families founded and built this country.

They need to put a ban on all immigration into this country. Sometimes i walk down the road and think to myself is this Poland, Nigeria or slovakia or is this Ireland.

I read in the paper the other day that there are Al Queda terrorist cells operating in Ireland and I just think whats going on with this liberal immigration system of ours.

People born here shouldn't automatically be entitled to Irish Citizenship along with their parents. its just bizarre. its inviting all sorts of trouble down the line.

Ah dear old Ireland. How I miss thee

It seems some of us took to fear and xenephobia like ducks to water.

I remember years back hearing similar comments from Aine Ni Chonaill. She was complaining that walking the streets of Dublin was like downtown Lagos or Brixton. "These people" she kept babbling. I asked if she'd ever been to Brixton, let alone Lagos. She hadn't. But she didn't want "these people" here. She then said she was representing the working class who resented the newcomers. I said she was doing a great disservice to the working classes, many of whom would find her views upsetting. Long time ago but still fresh in my mind.

I presume the poster hasn't been to any of the countries he mentions. A closed outlook is a sad thing, indeed.

My non-Irish wife and I left Ireland some time back. We both have fond memories of our home but there's always a handful who have to spoil things.

Deport the begrudgers, I say

Mena

ray011 wrote: »

not true ! if a child is born here then the parents have to be allowed stay here and allowed work to look after the child. I'm not talking about citizenship I'm talking about the rights of people to live and work in Ireland.

recent ruling of the Court of Justice of the European Union in the case of Ruiz Zambrano.

"As the Court has stated several times, citizenship of the Union is intended to be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States.
In those circumstances, Article 20 TFEU precludes national measures which have the effect of depriving citizens of the Union of the genuine enjoyment of the substance of the rights conferred by virtue of their status as citizens of the Union.
A refusal to grant a right of residence to a third country national with dependent minor children in the Member State where those children are nationals and reside, and also a refusal to grant such a person a work permit, has such an effect.
"

you can find more about this on minister alan shatters website.

By the way I am assuming you're an immigrant.

Let's not let facts get in the way of a great anti-immigrant/xenophobic rant hey?

Zambrano takes effect AFTER citizenship, so citizenship requirements must first be met and granted before the judgement has any effect.

But again, who needs facts.

Scofflaw

ray011 wrote: »

not true ! if a child is born here then the parents have to be allowed stay here and allowed work to look after the child. I'm not talking about citizenship I'm talking about the rights of people to live and work in Ireland.

recent ruling of the Court of Justice of the European Union in the case of Ruiz Zambrano.

"As the Court has stated several times, citizenship of the Union is intended to be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States.
In those circumstances, Article 20 TFEU precludes national measures which have the effect of depriving citizens of the Union of the genuine enjoyment of the substance of the rights conferred by virtue of their status as citizens of the Union.
A refusal to grant a right of residence to a third country national with dependent minor children in the Member State where those children are nationals and reside, and also a refusal to grant such a person a work permit, has such an effect.
"

you can find more about this on minister alan shatters website.

By the way I am assuming you're an immigrant.

I have no idea why you assume that, or why you think you have the right to assume that.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Monife

ray011 wrote: »

not true ! if a child is born here then the parents have to be allowed stay here and allowed work to look after the child. I'm not talking about citizenship I'm talking about the rights of people to live and work in Ireland.

recent ruling of the Court of Justice of the European Union in the case of Ruiz Zambrano.

"As the Court has stated several times, citizenship of the Union is intended to be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States.
In those circumstances, Article 20 TFEU precludes national measures which have the effect of depriving citizens of the Union of the genuine enjoyment of the substance of the rights conferred by virtue of their status as citizens of the Union.
A refusal to grant a right of residence to a third country national with dependent minor children in the Member State where those children are nationals and reside, and also a refusal to grant such a person a work permit, has such an effect.
"

you can find more about this on minister alan shatters website.

By the way I am assuming you're an immigrant.

Well you are COMPLETELY wrong in both respects.

Yes, Zambrano allows parents of IRISH citizen children to stay in the country and to work, but their child needs to be an Irish citizen first.

In order for two non-EU national parents to have an Irish citizen child, they need to be legally resident in Ireland 3 years prior to the childs birth for the child to obtain Irish citizenship. There is no way around this. If both parents are illegal, then the child is not entitled to Irish citizenship.

And by the way, I am not an immigrant. I am dual Irish/British.

ray011

Monife wrote: »

Well you are COMPLETELY wrong in both respects.

Yes, Zambrano allows parents of IRISH citizen children to stay in the country and to work, but their child needs to be an Irish citizen first.

In order for two non-EU national parents to have an Irish citizen child, they need to be legally resident in Ireland 3 years prior to the childs birth for the child to obtain Irish citizenship. There is no way around this. If both parents are illegal, then the child is not entitled to Irish citizenship.

And by the way, I am not an immigrant. I am dual Irish/British.

This Article from the Irish Examiner sums it all up about our Immigration Laws.

Oh and by the way is it Xenophobia to have an opinion on immigration and to care about your Country. ????

from the Irish Examiner.

"In 2009, Minister for Justice, Dermot Ahern signed 939 deportation orders, but only 236 were carried out.

Looking at the figures over five years shows that between 2003 and 2008, only 2,431 of 8,960 deportation orders issued were implemented.

The Department of Justice admitted it did not know how many of these people were still here.

A spokesman for the department said, however, that the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) believed that a large number had already left of their own accord.

If they are found to be in the state, however, these people are liable for arrest and detention for the purposes of removal.

According to the department, while the main reason someone is not deported is because they evade it, there are other reasons.

"The remaining orders have not been effected because they have been revoked – judicial review proceedings may have been initiated challenging the deportation orders; and the return of the persons concerned may have to be organised with their country of origin."

Fine Gael spokesman on Immigration & Integration, Denis Naughten, accused the minister of trying to spin the figures.

"While Minister Ahern tries to spin the figures regarding the deportation of failed asylum seekers, the situation is actually getting worse. In 2007 just over a third of all deportations signed by Minister Ahern resulted in deportations from this country. But this has now fallen to a quarter," he said.

"Compounding the minister’s failure to enforce his own orders, the number of asylum seekers disappearing from their accommodation was proportionately up in 2009 with close to 500 applicants evaporating into thin air. Some of these applicants have just used the asylum system as a back door to get into the country, while others have disappeared as a result of traffickers exploiting what they see as a ‘soft touch system’," he said.

Mr Naughten said it was imperative to have a sustainable and effective returns policy through proper enforcement of deportation orders. Ireland and the EU must sign up to agreements with countries of origin to enable easier repatriation of illegal immigrants. The deportation process begins with a letter being sent from the department of justice to the person. It is then up to the GNIB to escort that person the airport.

Under the Immigration Act, 1999, deportations are based on a system of voluntary compliance rather than detention.

It is only after non-compliance takes place that the Garda Síochána can take enforcement measures.

Not all persons who are subject to deportation orders will comply with those orders."

As you can see from the above it is no time before the 3 years are up and then nothing can be done to deport them.

we read in the papers every day Asylum seekers are appealing over and over again their deportation orders .

I would happily sit down and have dinner with any foreign person . Xenophobia and racism are often used as arguments against people who have opinions on immigration. By using these words against people with legitimate arguments is a form of racism in itself.

kind regards,
ray.

Monife

Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

If you could have a better source like link to the relevant legislation, I would be happy to enter into a debate with you.

But you are just believing the sensationalist media.

EDIT: Read my post again, the non-EU parents need to be LEGAL the 3 years PRIOR to the child being born in order for the child to be entitled to Irish citizenship.

Time spent as an asylum seeker, student or otherwise is not counted as legal residency in accordance with national legislation.

Nodin

ray011 wrote: »

(snip)
People born here shouldn't automatically be entitled to Irish Citizenship along with their parents. its just bizarre. its inviting all sorts of trouble down the line.

...I presume this would apply to everyone equally - including yourself?

walrusgumble

ray011 wrote: »

They need to protect the 'real irish' - people like myself and other out of work Irish workers whos generation of families founded and built this country.

They need to put a ban on all immigration into this country. Sometimes i walk down the road and think to myself is this Poland, Nigeria or slovakia or is this Ireland.

I read in the paper the other day that there are Al Queda terrorist cells operating in Ireland and I just think whats going on with this liberal immigration system of ours.

People born here shouldn't automatically be entitled to Irish Citizenship along with their parents. its just bizarre. its inviting all sorts of trouble down the line.

ah here,there was once a little austrian man in germany who had similar dreams about germany,he then became a monster.i do sympathise with the work issue.but eu citizens have rights.we have rights in poland.LEGAL immigrants cant be blamed for the current mess.rember the irish in the uk when the ira where bombing?

walrusgumble

Monife wrote: »

Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

If you could have a better source like link to the relevant legislation, I would be happy to enter into a debate with you.

But you are just believing the sensationalist media.

EDIT: Read my post again, the non-EU parents need to be LEGAL the 3 years PRIOR to the child being born in order for the child to be entitled to Irish citizenship.

Time spent as an asylum seeker, student or otherwise is not counted as legal residency in accordance with national legislation.

www.justice.gov.ie and www.inis.gov.ie would be a start.they use to have alot of the stats.scowl through the dail debates what part do you believe is sensationalist?

Monife

walrusgumble wrote: »

www.justice.gov.ie and www.inis.gov.ie would be a start.they use to have alot of the stats.scowl through the dail debates what part do you believe is sensationalist?

The sensationalist stuff Ray is believing is that asylum seekers, if here more than 3 years, and have children born here, can gain residency and citizenship based on their children born here.

When the fact of the matter is, the child can only be an Irish citizen to non-EU parents if they have been LEGAL for 3 years prior to the childs birth. Also, if one parent is legal or an Irish/EU citizen, but he doesn't mention that so I didn't acknowledge it.