Save our Irish Forests from being sold

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

You won't have long to wait, there's an announcement on Wednesday apparently.

I don't know why we just can't sell the carbon credits like Brazil is going to

Didn't we have to buy carbon credits not too long ago? Are we in a position to sell them?

If the last government had invested in alternative energy more we could be on our way to being self sufficient when it comes to energy and we could've saved a pretty big chunk of money not having to buy oil and gas from other countries. We are one of the top 3 locations in the world for potential wave power and yet we've done nothing about it. We just allow Shell to come in and exploit out natural resources and not even make anything from it.

zumobishopreal

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I've no idea which ones they consider non strategic. An Post, the airports and numerous other transport, RTE, ESB, Bord Gas, Coillte etc. etc. are all state owned, at least partly. How do you decide what's strategic and what's not? Will it be a case of whichever ones they get the best offers for?
I agree that some clarification is necessary here.

I wonder would getting in touch with the Greens be of any use? I know there's none of them in the Dáil this time around but they seem the most likely to make a noise about this. Although how much noise can you make when you've no TD's?

The McCarthy review will decide what is and isnt "essential" we are waiting with baited breath for this review to be published

MASTER...of the bra

RTE

Ireland will not be obliged to purchase any more carbon credits in order to comply with the Kyoto Protocol.

29 APR 2010

Ireland will not be obliged to purchase any more carbon credits in order to comply with the Kyoto Protocol because of the fall-off in greenhouse gas emissions due to the recession.
The Environmental Protection Agency has, however, warned that more stringent EU emissions reduction targets for 2020 will require significant action by the Government - even when assuming that carbon sinks, like forestry, are allowed to be factored into the calculations.
Even based on the most optimistic forecasts the EPA says the EU targets will be very difficult to achieve.

During the Celtic Tiger years, Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions spiralled out of control and it was speculated that the Government might have to spend more than €1bn purchasing carbon credits to comply with Kyoto.
The latest projections from the EPA, based on data from the Economic and Social Research Institute, suggest Ireland will not have to spend any more money for Kyoto compliance because the emissions have simply reduced.

Our emissions can have only gotten smaller since this report, more job losses and oil prices increasing, so people use less.

We don't have to buy Carbon Credits now but how they work is pretty complicated, If the land/forests are sold do we lose the "Carbon sink"?

That's a great argument right there for not selling if we are going to have to buy Credits to make up for what we lose by selling the forests.

keithcan

Where has there been any ACTUAL proposal to sell off Coillte that is under serious consideration? this thread seems to have taken on a life of it's own and there's talk of a tender being out there. What tender, where? Coillte are still doing their thing. The incoming Govt only has proposals to merge Coillte with Bord na Mona, so no sale there. Is this a real risk? I just don't see it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

keithcan wrote: »

Where has there been any ACTUAL proposal to sell off Coillte that is under serious consideration? this thread seems to have taken on a life of it's own and there's talk of a tender being out there. What tender, where? Coillte are still doing their thing. The incoming Govt only has proposals to merge Coillte with Bord na Mona, so no sale there. Is this a real risk? I just don't see it.

During their election campaign FG said they would sell off state assets to raise capital. Coillte was one of the assets specifically mentioned.
Since they had to go into coalition with Labor the new idea of merging Coillte with Bord na Mona has emerged. It's still unclear what exactly that merger will mean for the forests though.

zumobishopreal

keithcan wrote: »

Where has there been any ACTUAL proposal to sell off Coillte that is under serious consideration? this thread seems to have taken on a life of it's own and there's talk of a tender being out there. What tender, where? Coillte are still doing their thing. The incoming Govt only has proposals to merge Coillte with Bord na Mona, so no sale there. Is this a real risk? I just don't see it.

If you think there is no possibility of this happening then you should read this
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/dec/19/bertie-ahern-in-expenses-paid-trip-to-china-for-fo/

Pete_Cavan

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

During their election campaign FG said they would sell off state assets to raise capital. Coillte was one of the assets specifically mentioned.

From NewEra (FGs document which proposed to sell off state assets);

We will look to sell ESB International, Bord Gais and ESB PowerGen & Supply, when market and other conditions are appropriate. We have learnt the lessons of Eircom and will retain key infrastructure in the ownership of the State, i.e., the electricity and gas networks, and the hydro power stations which are so vital for flood control. The proceeds from the sale of non-strategic assets will be re-invested in NewERA through a new portfolio of State companies.

It does not mention Coillte as an asset which they wish to sell, however it does specifically mention retaining and investing in Coillte here;

Finally, NewERA will merge Bord na Mona and Coillte into a new company called “Bioenergy and Forestry Ireland (BFI)” to expand Ireland’s position in biomass. Despite ideal growing conditions, biomass production in Ireland remains low. In order to build on the positive role being played by both Bord na Mona and Coillte, BFI will invest €900 million over four years in order to allow it to become a global leader in the commercialisation of next generation bio-energy technologies. Thousands of jobs will also be created through an ambitious afforestation target of 15,000 ha per annum.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Since they had to go into coalition with Labor the new idea of merging Coillte with Bord na Mona has emerged. It's still unclear what exactly that merger will mean for the forests though.

NewEra was originally drafted in 2010 so merging Coillte with Bord na Mona is not a "new idea" - it was part of FGs policy all along and has nothing to do with Labour, although Lab clearly have accepted it as a good idea seeing as it is part of the Programme for Government.

brendankelly

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/Search_View.aspx?id=JAN196415

Pete_Cavan

brendankelly wrote: »

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/Search_View.aspx?id=JAN196415

I already posted that in this thread, post #34. Another poster emailed Coillte about this, see reply at post #37.

keithcan

The whole point about the Tender that Coillte have for "Evaluation of the Public Goods Value on the Coillte Forest Estate" is that it underpins the importance of the NON-commercial dimensions to what Coillte do and what our forests provide. You would have to work very hard to strangle logic to see that as indicative of a Coillte sell-off. Pete_Cavan is correct that FG's manifesto was about retaining Coillte in a new merged entity with Bord na Mona.

I just cannot see what a lot of the posts on this thread are about. There appears imo to be a determination to stoke up a non-issue.

The Raven.

Here is a new video posted on YouTube by The Woodland League. It is worth watching and not very long.

Before the elections Enda Kenny says that they [Fine Gael] have no intention of selling our forests. Eamon Gilmore is worried about the new activities of Bertie Ahern. He says ‘We are very concerned that a former Prime Minister of the country should be involved in a commercial venture like this which involves the sale of a very considerable portion of the land territory and the resources of the country.’ The video also shows Bertie Ahern’s spin on the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSJZu6PdJzs

I hope that both Fine Gael and Labour leaders still hold the same opinions after the formation of the new government.

zumobishopreal

The Raven. wrote: »

Here is a new video posted on YouTube by The Woodland League. It is worth watching and not very long.

Before the elections Enda Kenny says that they [Fine Gael] have no intention of selling our forests. Eamon Gilmore is worried about the new activities of Bertie Ahern. He says ‘We are very concerned that a former Prime Minister of the country should be involved in a commercial venture like this which involves the sale of a very considerable portion of the land territory and the resources of the country.’ The video also shows Bertie Ahern’s spin on the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSJZu6PdJzs

I hope that both Fine Gael and Labour leaders still hold the same opinions after the formation of the new government.

I am posting this on the facebook page cheers

boege

Review Group on State Assets and Liabilities - Coillte is listed

See link http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=6396


Terms of Reference have been set out for the Group:

• To consider the potential for asset disposals in the public sector, including commercial state bodies, in view of the indebtedness of the State.
• To draw up a list of possible asset disposals.
• To assess how the use and disposition of such assets can best help restore growth and contribute to national investment priorities.
• To review where appropriate, relevant investment and financing plans, commercial practices and regulatory requirements affecting the use of such assets in the national interest.

Why was it formed?
See page 31 section 27 second bullet of the EU/IMF MOU (a very interesting and frightening document)
http://www.merrionstreet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/EUIMFmemo.pdf

Lobby for its protection if you feel strongly about it but understand that it will be at the expense of something else. Take your pick from the list of state assets on the first link.

In short we are broke and appear to have agreed to a fire sale...sad!

zumobishopreal

It is sad indeed. I do not think that it is acceptable to sell 7-10% of the land in our country so I will be staunchly opposed to it until the every end

keithcan

What are people opposed to here ? What plan to sell our forests ? I have seen no evidence of this in any postings. But I see a good ol' campaign talking about the forests - and even getting the children in for a mention. The video that was posted mentions how Bertie Aherne privatised the forests. No he didn't. Coillte is a Commercial State Agency. It works to the Dept of Agriculture. Yet while they are commercial, they do a load of public good work.

And talking of public good, there is a serious need for a good hook-up by Coillte and other forestry owners (private landowners) with commercial operators to see if there is scope to get more wood-fuelled energy created, as part of an overall drive to develop our use of renewable resources for energy. This link is about a project another State Agency is developing on this area http://www.wdc.ie/2010/11/the-west’s-awake-and-developing-enterprise-in-wood-energy/

If I saw that happening, I know I wouldn't be thinking 'OMG, Coillte is in bed with private operators'. Instead it'd be a case imo of the State Forestry company doing a good job on the commercial side, just as they already appear to do on the public good side.

The Raven.

There is an interesting article in today's Independent. It is good to know that there is strong opposition in the Dail to the sell-off of state assets.

Left Alliance will fight sale of state assets 'to the death'

THE planned sell-off of €2bn in state assets will only happen "over the dead bodies" of the new alliance of left-wing TDs, they claimed yesterday.

The United Left Alliance (ULA) is promising to use "people power" and a "forest of placards" to campaign against other policies of the new Fine Gael-Labour coalition such as water charges and voluntary public sector redundancies.

ULA TD Clare Daly used the strongest rhetoric by saying the sale of state assets would only happen "over our dead bodies".

"All state assets are strategic as far as we are concerned. We would strenuously resist privatisation," she said.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/left-alliance-will-fight-sale-of-state-assets-to-the-death-2569484.html

I notice that the renewed online publicity is helping to increase the signing of the petitions. The count is going up much faster, but a lot more are needed to bring them up to the target.

NewVision

Coillte sale would be a 'disaster', says Cllr. Dan McCarthy
Westmeath Examiner, Wednesday, 9th March

The incoming government must not resort to selling state assets such as forestry, in order to meet repayments on Ireland's IMF/EU bailout deal, a local councillor has warned.

Labour's Cllr. Dan McCarthy made the remarks amid growing fears that despite the incoming government's plans to revolutionise the forestry industry, external financial pressures may result in Ireland losing control of one its vital natural resources.

Cllr. McCarthy, speaking to the Westmeath Examiner, said that "not one State asset" should be sold as a result of financial pressures caused by the EU/IMF bailout.

"I am totally opposed to the sale of any State assets. We shouldn't sell an acre," he said, affirming his opposition to An Bord Snip Nua's McCarthy Report, which suggested that Government should look at the possibility of selling State-owned bodies like Coillte and the ESB to private buyers.

Please sign the petition. Say NO to the sellout of Irish forestry.

Sully

Jesus does nobody watch the news? Its not for sale under the current government. ULA also wouldn't be able to oppose it either and Irish people generally don't protest with left so they won't have huge support.

Also, ironic they will use a 'forest of placards'! No care for the Environment folks?!

zumobishopreal

NewVision wrote: »

Coillte sale would be a 'disaster', says Cllr. Dan McCarthy
Westmeath Examiner, Wednesday, 9th March

Please sign the petition. Say NO to the sellout of Irish forestry.

The sale of Irish forests would be a disaster of epic proportions for this and future generations

The Raven.

Labour TD Sean Sherlock has stated (on the Labour website) that he 'was delighted to see in the Programme for Government, that plans by the outgoing government to sell off Coillte have been scrapped entirely'.

I may have missed it, but I haven't seen any such clear indication in the Programme for Government. Until I see and hear a clear and unambiguous statement from the new government that the Coillte lands will not be sold off, I will continue to fear that these lands are still part of the state assets up for grabs. I don't think we can become complacent on this issue. Why was it even considered in the first place?

Pete_Cavan

The Raven. wrote: »

I may have missed it, but I haven't seen any such clear indication in the Programme for Government. Until I see and hear a clear and unambiguous statement from the new government that the Coillte lands will not be sold off, I will continue to fear that these lands are still part of the state assets up for grabs. I don't think we can become complacent on this issue. Why was it even considered in the first place?

Have you seen and heard a clear and unambiguous statement from the old government that the Coillte lands will be sold off or that it was even considered in the first place? Or are you just jumping to wild conclusion with absolutely no shred of evidence that any government, past or present, has considered selling Coillte?

Shulgin

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Have you seen and heard a clear and unambiguous statement from the old government that the Coillte lands will be sold off or that it was even considered in the first place? Or are you just jumping to wild conclusion with absolutely no shred of evidence that any government, past or present, has considered selling Coillte?

When the IMF are involved in a countries finances, all state resources are very much a target of theirs. Why should Ireland or Coillte be any different?

They are economic locusts. We have a right to be worried.

Pete_Cavan

Shulgin wrote: »

When the IMF are involved in a countries finances, all state resources are very much a target of theirs. Why should Ireland or Coillte be any different?

They are economic locusts. We have a right to be worried.

You could have just replied "no" then.

OhNoYouDidn't

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Have you seen and heard a clear and unambiguous statement from the old government that the Coillte lands will be sold off or that it was even considered in the first place? Or are you just jumping to wild conclusion with absolutely no shred of evidence that any government, past or present, has considered selling Coillte?

His 'shred of evidence' is a Government TD saying they wouldn't go through with plans.

Whether the plans existed or not is another story, but bad form popping at the Raven here.

zumobishopreal

The Raven. wrote: »

Labour TD Sean Sherlock has stated (on the Labour website) that he 'was delighted to see in the Programme for Government, that plans by the outgoing government to sell off Coillte have been scrapped entirely'.

I may have missed it, but I haven't seen any such clear indication in the Programme for Government. Until I see and hear a clear and unambiguous statement from the new government that the Coillte lands will not be sold off, I will continue to fear that these lands are still part of the state assets up for grabs. I don't think we can become complacent on this issue. Why was it even considered in the first place?

These are my sentiments exactly. We must have a clear statement saying that this will not happen.

Shulgin

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

You could have just replied "no" then.

My point still stands.

uprising2

Government must rule out Coillte selloff

Issued : Monday 17 January, 2011

Statement by Sean Sherlock TD
Spokesperson on Agriculture and Food
Dáil Candidate for Cork East
Suggestions that the Government is contemplating a selloff of state-owned forestry company, Coillte, are very alarming.
The prospect of Coillte being sold off would be very worrying in any circumstances, but when it emerges that International Forestry Fund, an international asset management company chaired by one Bertie Ahern, are among those sniffing around for a piece of the action, it is vital that the Government clarify their intentions as a matter of urgency.
Coillte is one of the biggest landowners in the state, owning some seven per cent of the country's landmass, and the notion that we could sell off all of this land, lock stock and barrel should not be countenanced.
Do we really want to end up in a situation where this for-profit company could turn around and do what ever it feels like with a natural resource that rightly belongs to the Irish people including many of our forests, rivers and lakes?
We should be looking at ways that we can use these resources to a greater extent for the benefit and enjoyment of local communities, and to identify ways in which we could exploit them as attractions for visitors from home and abroad.
I believe that the Government must state once and for all that Coillte will not be sold off.
http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/129528116421812751.html

Then this,

Sherlock welcomes plan to retain forestry resources

Issued : Tuesday 8 March, 2011

Statement by Sean Sherlock TD
Spokesperson on Agriculture and Food
Dáil Candidate for Cork East
I was delighted to see in the Programme for Government, that plans by the outgoing government to sell off Coillte have been scrapped entirely.
Labour is on record as opposing the sell-off of Coillte, and we voiced our objections when it became clear that Fianna Fail were hoping to hawk it off to some international fund management company.
The Programme for Government, clearly states that Bord Na Mona will be merged with Coillte to form BioEnergy a new state company, and there is no proposal in the document to sell this company off.
In addition we will accelerate the development of Ireland's forestry and bioenergies and Ireland to become a global leader in the commercialisation of next generation bio-energy technologies, including an annual 14,700 hectare afforestation programme.
The Programme for Govt makes it clear that Coillte is to remain in public ownership as part of a merged bio-energy company.
http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/129960121831574179.html


Now whether or not any of this should be believed is another thing, if the IMF tell our great leaders to sit, roll over, giz the paw, be quiet, or whatever you can be sure they'll be doing it, rather quick.

They're a pack of scamming bastards, the old regime, the new regime, the IMF and the EU, all and one of the same, dirty bastards, they'll be squeezing and squeezing and squeezing a little more till we're on our knee's begging "please sir, may I have another bowl of cabbage water".

I'm all for burning the bond holders and anybody else who want's to take from my country,me, my children or their children, and I mean literally lighting a fire with "some" timber from our forests, and throwing them all on.

Listen to bertie the thieving bastard, at 1:05 "In fact I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide", bertie I'd say your responsible for a few past, present and future suicides, kunt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFBfkusf8R0

alastair

Suggestions that the Government is contemplating a selloff of state-owned forestry company, Coillte, are very alarming.

`

You have to wonder why this went all Chicken Little. Anyone can voice their interest in buying any commodity - and even if they have a creepy ex PM on their board, it really doesn't mean that anything's for sale. My opinion is that it was never going to be a go-er - even under a FF government. No harm in a bit of proactive defence, but the pretence that a sale was about to happen, or that there was a tender, or that a tendering process wouldn't have provoked a political ****storm is rather imaginative.

Sulmac

Today's Irish Times:

Ahern firm does not want to buy Coillte

A forestry company associated with former taoiseach Bertie Ahern has said it has no interest in bidding for the State forestry company, Coillte. Mr Ahern is chairman of the International Forestry Fund, a joint venture between Swiss financiers Helvetia Wealth (Liechtenstein) AG, and Irish private sector forest management company IFS Asset Managers.

The fund said yesterday its name had been linked with largely internet-based speculation that it was interested in buying Coillte from the Government. However, a director of the fund, Paul Brosnan, said this was far from the mark. He said the fund was investing all over the world, including Ireland, but was only interested in growing trees and was “not interested in a fully integrated company like Coillte”, adding that Coillte owned land, lakes, rivers and amenities, and manufactured and marketed a range of finished products, which the fund did not want to be involved in. “I cannot make it clearer,” he said. “We do not want to buy Coillte.”

Baralis1

I'm not certain what the point of this protest/petition is.
5 - 8 % of our country is not covered by native Irish forests. The vast majority of our native Irish forests have been cut down for many hundreds of years and there are only a few patches remaining, most of them protected I believe such as Killarney national park.

I think this protest is very misleading. 5 to 8% of the country probably is covered by forests but the key point is that these are Coniferous forests for commercial use planted by Coillte, not native to Ireland and in my opinion, are a blight on the country. They should never have been planted. Now Coillte have started to try and plant more broadleaf forestry but it will be many years before this takes hold. Much of the land planted by the coniferous forestry has been destroyed due to the effect the growing of these trees has on the land and it is very difficult to get anything to grow there.

I don't believe that the government is going to sell 8 % of the country to a private foreign company.