Save our Irish Forests from being sold

zumobishopreal

There is a plan by the Irish government to sell the VAST majority of our national forests (amounting to an area greater than 1 million acres or between 5 and 8 percent of Ireland's total land mass). There is a shocking lack of information out there, as the media seem to have totally failed to report on the subject. As such, this issue has suffered from very poor publicity and public awareness is low.
We have set up this thread in order to highlight this. We have also set up a facebook page encouraging people to sign the petition that is doing the rounds at the moment. Some people have said "what is the point in a petition". In Britain recently the same thing was happening UNTIL a petition with a 100,000 signatures reached David Cameron. He then quashed the proceedings and a public apology was issued. If we could follow suit and make waves then we could truly enact change. Simply put if we do not we could lose our Public National Forests forever.
Glen Hansard of the frames has recently highlighted this on a short segment on the Late Late Show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02J13es5wr8&feature=player_detailpage#t=62s

You can also sign the petition here:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-save-irelands-forests/

Follow/Share our facebook page and learn more at:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Irish-Forests/108335132580208

kippy

zumobishopreal wrote: »

There is a plan by the Irish government to sell the VAST majority of our national forests (amounting to an area greater than 1 million acres or between 5 and 8 percent of Ireland's total land mass). There is a shocking lack of information out there, as the media seem to have totally failed to report on the subject. As such, this issue has suffered from very poor publicity and public awareness is low.
We have set up this thread in order to highlight this. We have also set up a facebook page encouraging people to sign the petition that is doing the rounds at the moment. Some people have said "what is the point in a petition". In Britain recently the same thing was happening UNTIL a petition with a 100,000 signatures reached David Cameron. He then quashed the proceedings and a public apology was issued. If we could follow suit and make waves then we could truly enact change. Simply put if we do not we could lose our Public National Forests forever.
Glen Hansard of the frames has recently highlighted this on a short segment on the Late Late Show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02J13es5wr8&feature=player_detailpage#t=62s

You can also sign the petition here:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/help-save-irelands-forests/

Follow/Share our facebook page and learn more at:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Irish-Forests/108335132580208

Online polls and facebook pages - yep, thats how the world gets changed..........

zumobishopreal

as I said it worked in Britain so yes petitions can act change. Raising awareness is key to getting an idea off the ground.

kippy

zumobishopreal wrote: »

as I said it worked in Britain so yes petitions can act change.

Yep, that was the reason cameron changed his mind.....

thetonynator

Coillte owns 7% of the irish landmass, selling it would be ridiculous, there is no way a private individual/ non-state company should be the largest landowner in the country by that amount.

Micilin Muc

And Bertie Ahern is the Chairman of the private international company most likely to buy Coillte.

Biggins

Ye do know that Bertie is one of the people that is trying to buy these forests?
Seems the man is determined to not go away!

Ahern's international forestry body could own 7% of Irish land
International firm chaired by former taoiseach eyeing up Coillte, the state's most valuable asset

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/dec/05/aherns-international-forestry-body-could-own-7-of-/

Fears that an international forestry firm chaired by Bertie Ahern could soon own 7% of Ireland are to be raised in the Dáil this week.

Sinn Féin's natural resources spokesman Martin Ferris said he wanted the government to allay fears that an international forestry body, of which the former taoiseach is chairman, is about to make a bid to buy Coillte, which owns 7% of the land in the state.

Colm McCarthy's 2009 An Bord Snip Nua report suggested that the state could garner "once-off receipts for the exchequer" through a "review of the operations of Coillte with a view to realising optimal return through rationalisation, asset disposal and, possibly, privatisation".

McCarthy is now heading up a body which is looking into the potential fire sale of state assets such as Coillte.

According to Department of Finance accounts for last year, Coillte is the most valuable state asset, with a net value of over €1.2bn. This is not the worth of the trees but the value of the land on which they are planted.

Earlier this year, the Sunday Tribune revealed that Ahern was appointed chairperson of the International Forestry Fund.

Significantly, a spokesman for the fund confirmed to this newspaper some months ago that the fund would consider an acquisition of Coillte.

A spokeswoman for Ahern said this weekend that "as he understands it, the International Forestry Fund has no intention of putting in a bid for Coillte".

Ferris will raise his fears about the potential sale of Coillte in the Dáil because "7% of our land could be sold to a private corporation. It is no coincidence I think that the expression of interest follows on the McCarthy report that Coillte be either privatised or asset-stripped, and the pressure on the government to sell off state assets as part of the IMF programme.

"This cannot be allowed to happen. Our forestry and the land are key national assets."

Ferris added: "I will allow others to make what they will of our former taoiseach's part in all of this."

However, Paul Brosnan of the International Forestry Fund said no bid had yet been made despite rumours of an impending sale.

"I can confirm that the International Forestry Fund has not made a bid for Coillte's assets... but I will keep you informed if we ever do," he said.

The International Forestry Fund is backed principally by the Irish Forestry Fund and Helvetia Wealth AG of Switzerland.

Based in Switzerland and Liechtenstein, it claims it can give the benefits of an offshore bank account to ordinary investors.

kippy

I've just emailed all of the current elected representatives in the Galway area and also a number of prominent FG and Labour politicians about this.

zumobishopreal

This is very true indeed. They sold 400 hectares of forestry it owned in North Mayo to Royal Dutch Shell (Corrib Gas project) who cut it down, removed the bog on it and poisoned the land and the water.

zumobishopreal

kippy wrote: »

I've just emailed all of the current elected representatives in the Galway area and also a number of prominent FG and Labour politicians about this.

Fair play to you.

zumobishopreal

Micilin Muc wrote: »

And Bertie Ahern is the Chairman of the private international company most likely to buy Coillte.

I was just about to highlight this there is some good information on that here:
http://fisnua.com/?p=442

I am never surprised to see his name pop up when it comes to unjust activity

kippy

zumobishopreal wrote: »

Fair play to you.

Its not the first time.
I have mailed in the past on high energy prices (PSO levey) and the lavish costs associated with the glenties conference last year and the "facebook" training which took place around the same time.
I personally find it a far more effective way of trying to effect change. If enough people did it I believe it would have a major effect.

ilovesleep

This is something I would protest about. Any planned protests? Although this is Ireland - the land of laziness where people enjoy being exploited.

zumobishopreal

As of yet we have no plans for a protest solely on this issue but we do plan on protesting at the Rally for the Planet protest on March 23rd in Dublin at 1pm for this very issue.

Biggins

zumobishopreal wrote: »

I was just about to highlight this there is some good information on that here:
http://fisnua.com/?p=442

I am never surprised to see his name pop up when it comes to unjust activity

Never was the saying truer "Its hard to get rid of a bad thing!"

zumobishopreal

Biggins wrote: »

Never was the saying truer "Its hard to get rid of a bad thing!"

It is no surprise that Bertie Aherns idol is none other than.....Charlie Haughey.

zumobishopreal

We are now draughting a template that people can use in order to contact their local tds with. Thanks for your input.

Biggins

zumobishopreal wrote: »

It is no surprise that Bertie Aherns idol is none other than.....Charlie Haughey.

"The apple don't fall far from the tree."
...Speaking of forests!

Sulmac

From the new Programme for Government (page 15):

Bio-Energy and Forestry: To accelerate the development of Ireland’s forestry and bioenergies, NewERA will merge together Bord na Mona and Coillte to create a new State company called BioEnergy Ireland to become a global leader in the commercialisation of next generation bio-energy technologies, including an annual 14,700 hectare afforestation programme.

They're hardly going to continue to plan on selling it?

kippy

Part of my email to these TD's was asking for clarification on the issue and also asking whether any level of consultation had or was planned to take place.
There MAY be some level of crossed wires here but there is enough to be concerned about.

zumobishopreal

Sulmac wrote: »

From the new Programme for Government (page 15):



They're hardly going to continue to plan on selling it?

A quick quote from politics.ie from the user Seanie Lemass
"It is valued (the forests) at 1.2 billion, persumably at agri values + some proportion of value of stock. They have finished tendering for a valuation of the land as a 'public asset.' Almsot certainly part of their preparing themseves to be sold. There are also carbon credits that will go with it and persumably a continuation of the EU grants. Besides that, they have surveyed the land under their control for geological info but have never released the findings.

Land then could be worth anything really if it is sold to private companies who can do whatever they want with it basically.
And so land that came into the hands of the Irish state as part of the outworkings of the Irish Land War through the Land Commission will end up in the hands of the new landlords. The circle of life. And corruption."

SupaNova

The International Forestry Fund is an open ended fund registered in the British Virgin Islands. The Fund is recognised as a Professional Fund with the Financial Services Commission (the "Commission") pursuant to the Mutual Funds Act 1996 and Mutual Funds (Amendment) Act 1997 (together the "Act") of the British Virgin Islands and obtained a certificate of recognition ("Certificate of Recognition") as a professional fund in the British Virgin Islands pursuant to the Act.

I wonder did our former minister for finance without a bank account have one in the tax haven of the British Virgin Islands.;)

Would be great if people could sign this and stop a cancer to the Irish people like Bertie Ahern having further effect on Irish life. He deprived the good people of money by him and his cronies promoting their culture of greed, now dont let him stop your source of oxygen.

zumobishopreal

Deleted User wrote: »

Would be great if people could sign this and stop a cancer to the Irish people like Bertie Ahern having further effect on Irish life. He deprived the good people of money by him and his cronies promoting their culture of greed, now dont let him stop your source of oxygen.

Such a good point. "Our source of oxygen". Strangely enough I b=never even thought of that so simple but yet so true.

Citizen_Cutback

The new Programme for Government plans to merge Coillte and Bord na Mona into BioEnergy Ireland with an annual increased level of afforestation of 14,000+ hectares per year.

It seems that rather than selling off most assets, Semi-States will be expected to increase investment in their spheres of operation to stimulate economic activity.

I reckon it's Bye-Bye ESB Power Generation though.

caseyann

Citizen_Cutback wrote: »

The new Programme for Government plans to merge Coillte and Bord na Mona into BioEnergy Ireland with an annual increased level of afforestation of 14,000+ hectares per year.

It seems that rather than selling off most assets, Semi-States will be expected to increase investment in their spheres of operation to stimulate economic activity.

I reckon it's Bye-Bye ESB Power Generation though.

Dont you mean hello Electric Ireland,its all ready on the cards.Name change and be allowed to charge people what ever they like.I am not hundred percent on the details.

brendankelly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02J13es5wr8

chris_d

zumobishopreal wrote: »

as I said it worked in Britain so yes petitions can act change. Raising awareness is key to getting an idea off the ground.

im assuming i can't thank posts because i have such a low post count (don't know where they all went too), but i wanted to highlight this post and congratulate the op for taking a postive and pro-active stance in this issue. as opposed to the negative and internet one-upmanship being undertook by kippy.

this proposed sale of land to private entities is an absolute disgrace, as is the lack of information being made available to the population.

i hope the incoming government have some pride in their country.

kippy

chris_d wrote: »

im assuming i can't thank posts because i have such a low post count (don't know where they all went too), but i wanted to highlight this post and congratulate the op for taking a postive and pro-active stance in this issue. as opposed to the negative and internet one-upmanship being undertook by kippy.

this proposed sale of land to private entities is an absolute disgrace, as is the lack of information being made available to the population.

i hope the incoming government have some pride in their country.

"Negative and one-upmanship"
Explain please.
Land gets sold to private entities all the time by the way and I am not pro selling the forests to any private entity either.
In fact, as you can see I have been proactive with the politicians who claim to represent this country.
Online pools and facebook groups are the most pointless way of doing anything.
If everyone spent the time mailing/phoneing or texting their local TD's instead of signing up to these kind of things campaigns would be far more effective.

bleg

You had me til you mentioned glen hansard

MASTER...of the bra

bleg wrote: »

You had me til you mentioned glen hansard

Sometimes I wish there was a thumbs down.

The Raven.

Zumobishopreal, I'm very glad you have started this thread, as it is this is the start of Tree Week (Sunday March 6th to Saturday March 12th), with the theme "Year of the Forest", throughout 2011, and beyond. For those who are not aware, the Woodland League have a lot of information on their site about the possibility of the sell-off of our forests:

http://www.woodlandleague.org/

I signed their petition back in December, as I think it is scandalous that the government should even contemplate the sale of our forests. There have been quite a number of threads on this issue (some locked), therefore I think it is very important that this thread continues so as to keep people updated. It is also important to keep an eye on the link above and the Twitter and Facebook sites:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Irish-Forests/108335132580208

Twitter: @woodlandleague

I emailed The Tree Council in December, as they are the umbrella group for Coillte etc. but to date I have not received a reply, which is disgraceful. I will be following that up again.

As usual, deals such as this are often done behind closed doors, so it is vital that a LOT of attention is drawn to it, and a lot more signatures are required if the petition is going to be deemed significant enough to stop it.

The Raven.

bleg wrote: »

You had me til you mentioned glen hansard

Fair play to Glen Hansard for mentioning it on the Late Late Show. It is more than they did on the Vincent Browne Show the same night. Eanna Ni Lamhna was on the show talking about trees and not a word about the Coillte sell-off.

MASTER...of the bra

Another informative thread here.

Mine got locked. Probably didn't belong there though.

zumobishopreal

The Raven. wrote: »

Fair play to Glen Hansard for mentioning it on the Late Late Show. It is more than they did on the Vincent Browne Show the same night. Eanna Ni Lamhna was on the show talking about trees and not a word about the Coillte sell-off.

yeah I have to take my hat off to him for that. I never had much time for him but he issue he raised was well worth pointing out to the masses. He could have just used the time to flog albums instead

zumobishopreal

The Raven. wrote: »

Zumobishopreal, I'm very glad you have started this thread, as it is this is the start of Tree Week (Sunday March 6th to Saturday March 12th), with the theme "Year of the Forest", throughout 2011, and beyond. For those who are not aware, the Woodland League have a lot of information on their site about the possibility of the sell-off of our forests:

http://www.woodlandleague.org/

I signed their petition back in December, as I think it is scandalous that the government should even contemplate the sale of our forests. There have been quite a number of threads on this issue (some locked), therefore I think it is very important that this thread continues so as to keep people updated. It is also important to keep an eye on the link above and the Twitter and Facebook sites:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-I...08335132580208

Twitter: @woodlandleague

I emailed The Tree Council in December, as they are the umbrella group for Coillte etc. but to date I have not received a reply, which is disgraceful. I will be following that up again.

As usual, deals such as this are often done behind closed doors, so it is vital that a LOT of attention is drawn to it, and a lot more signatures are required if the petition is going to be deemed significant enough to stop it.

just a quick correction on the link to facebook its http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Irish-Forests/108335132580208

The issue about transparency was a major running issue for most parties and yet we already seem to have a severe lack of it on this issue. Heres hoping that changes very soon. I must commend you on your post

The Raven.

zumobishopreal wrote: »

just a quick correction on the link to facebook its http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Irish-Forests/108335132580208

The issue about transparency was a major running issue for most parties and yet we already seem to have a severe lack of it on this issue. Heres hoping that changes very soon. I must commend you on your post

Thanks for that. I had copied your link and that is why it didn't work. I had to go to the website to get it. Now it works.

The Raven.

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

Another informative thread here.

Mine got locked. Probably didn't belong there though.

Yes I read your thread. Pity it got locked. It seems that it was in the wrong forum. A few others got locked also.

You made a very interesting point here:

We have kind of grown "immune" as a society to scandals and the like with what has gone on here in the last few years but to pretty much give away 1,099,618 million acres of Ireland......Im lost for words.

PS. Did you mean '1,099,618 acres'?

Ray Burkes Pension

Everything must be fecking great in Ireland if people have time to protest about something that isn't gonna happen.

MASTER...of the bra

The Raven. wrote: »

PS. Did you mean '1,099,618 acres'?

This is the official Tender Notice which has the land mass in hectares, 445,000ha, it makes it sound small (which it isin't) so I converted it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Can anyone explain what this merging of Bord na Mona and Coillte would mean for the forests, in lay mans terms?

I'm thinking of all the forest parks that are used by the public for free now. Are they going to become "working forests" as in chopped down and replanted year on year to provide energy? Will they still be open to the public if there's forwarders and logging lorries rumbling around?

zumobishopreal

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Can anyone explain what this merging of Bord na Mona and Coillte would mean for the forests, in lay mans terms?

I'm thinking of all the forest parks that are used by the public for free now. Are they going to become "working forests" as in chopped down and replanted year on year to provide energy? Will they still be open to the public if there's forwarders and logging lorries rumbling around?

Basically the merger would mean that potentially privatise our state forests and our gas supply. This neciscerally does not have to be a bad thing if measures are put in place to protect the usage of these assets but historically speaking that rarely happens. Basically the land could be sold out to foreign inverstors. Like the local woodland of Ballyclough that "consisted of 70 acres of Wild Cherry, Oak, Birch, Ash and Hazel, and was home to the Red Squirrel and numerous Bat species (Bat’s are supposed to be the most protected species in Europe). It is well known international fact that stability in life is conferred by natural native woodlands, via the management of water, soil, air, etc."
Not only that but the timber was burned on site. So none of the local residents where allowed to even avail of the timber. The flora and fauna of the are awas completely destroyed. The IFF sold off the land that is owned by the Irish people OUR forests estates in order to turn a profit.

zumobishopreal

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm thinking of all the forest parks that are used by the public for free now. Are they going to become "working forests" as in chopped down and replanted year on year to provide energy? Will they still be open to the public if there's forwarders and logging lorries rumbling around?

Yes its a shame but private companies could do whatever they want with the land and there would be very little that we could do about it

kippy

zumobishopreal wrote: »

Yes its a shame but private companies could do whatever they want with the land and there would be very little that we could do about it

Well, there is this thing called planning permission which can be used to stop companies doing whatever they want with the land.
There's also these things called terms and conditions that can be attached to sales of assets in order to protect these assets.

All that being said, I am not for the actual sale of these resources (the land) to any private entity. I wouldn't mind contracting out the running of the forests to private entities under terms and conditions but as yet we still havent been told exactly what is going to happen here.

OhNoYouDidn't

kippy wrote: »

"Negative and one-upmanship"
Explain please.
Land gets sold to private entities all the time by the way and I am not pro selling the forests to any private entity either.
In fact, as you can see I have been proactive with the politicians who claim to represent this country.
Online pools and facebook groups are the most pointless way of doing anything.
If everyone spent the time mailing/phoneing or texting their local TD's instead of signing up to these kind of things campaigns would be far more effective.

The problem is a lack of awareness of this plan. FB is a good way of letting people know what is going on. FB in itself won't stop the plan, but it raises awareness.

Voodoo_rasher

here's an on-going thread

http://www.politics.ie/environment/144127-lets-keep-eye-coillte-15.html

p15 and p16 suggest it is already sold ((

Soldie

What's the problem with these forests being sold?

My local fine gael td sent this to me today

Firstly, allow me to outline the plans for our forestry sector, as agreed in the Programme for Government. In order to accelerate the development of Ireland’s forestry and bioenergies, our NewERA plan will merge together Bord na Mona and Coillte to create a new State company called BioEnergy Ireland to become a global leader in the commercialisation of next generation bio-energy technologies, including an annual 14,700 hectare afforestation programme. This will mean a growth in the sector and the investment will be very important for the future of the industry.


In relation to the sale of any state assets, we will target up to €2 billion in sales of non-strategic state assets drawing from the recommendations of the McCarthy Review Group on State Assets when available. Assets will only be sold when market conditions are right and when adequate regulatory structures have been established to protect consumer interests.I will, of course, continue to monitor developments in this issue and I will be in contact when I have further details. Thank you for taking the time to raise this issue with me, which I know is of importance to many people across this country.

Yours Sincerely,

Soldie

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

7% of the country has been/is being given away on the cheap

The majority of the country is already in private hands.

SupaNova

From Wikepedia:

Afforestation is the establishment of a forest or stand of trees in an area where the preceding vegetation or land use was not forest.

This doesn't sound like they are going to chop all the trees down. I am not a fan of Bertie though.

OhNoYouDidn't

Soldie wrote: »

What's the problem with these forests being sold?

Ask yourself WHY would anyone want to buy 7% of the landmass of the country? Not for the good of their health.

Obviously they will either cut down all the trees, sell the land for development or charge people to access mountain trails. Or all three.

Either way, its the population of Ireland who lose out. Again.