Save our Irish Forests from being sold

The Raven.

Zumobishopreal, I'm very glad you have started this thread, as it is this is the start of Tree Week (Sunday March 6th to Saturday March 12th), with the theme "Year of the Forest", throughout 2011, and beyond. For those who are not aware, the Woodland League have a lot of information on their site about the possibility of the sell-off of our forests:

http://www.woodlandleague.org/

I signed their petition back in December, as I think it is scandalous that the government should even contemplate the sale of our forests. There have been quite a number of threads on this issue (some locked), therefore I think it is very important that this thread continues so as to keep people updated. It is also important to keep an eye on the link above and the Twitter and Facebook sites:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Irish-Forests/108335132580208

Twitter: @woodlandleague

I emailed The Tree Council in December, as they are the umbrella group for Coillte etc. but to date I have not received a reply, which is disgraceful. I will be following that up again.

As usual, deals such as this are often done behind closed doors, so it is vital that a LOT of attention is drawn to it, and a lot more signatures are required if the petition is going to be deemed significant enough to stop it.

The Raven.

bleg wrote: »

You had me til you mentioned glen hansard

Fair play to Glen Hansard for mentioning it on the Late Late Show. It is more than they did on the Vincent Browne Show the same night. Eanna Ni Lamhna was on the show talking about trees and not a word about the Coillte sell-off.

MASTER...of the bra

Another informative thread here.

Mine got locked. Probably didn't belong there though.

zumobishopreal

The Raven. wrote: »

Fair play to Glen Hansard for mentioning it on the Late Late Show. It is more than they did on the Vincent Browne Show the same night. Eanna Ni Lamhna was on the show talking about trees and not a word about the Coillte sell-off.

yeah I have to take my hat off to him for that. I never had much time for him but he issue he raised was well worth pointing out to the masses. He could have just used the time to flog albums instead

zumobishopreal

The Raven. wrote: »

Zumobishopreal, I'm very glad you have started this thread, as it is this is the start of Tree Week (Sunday March 6th to Saturday March 12th), with the theme "Year of the Forest", throughout 2011, and beyond. For those who are not aware, the Woodland League have a lot of information on their site about the possibility of the sell-off of our forests:

http://www.woodlandleague.org/

I signed their petition back in December, as I think it is scandalous that the government should even contemplate the sale of our forests. There have been quite a number of threads on this issue (some locked), therefore I think it is very important that this thread continues so as to keep people updated. It is also important to keep an eye on the link above and the Twitter and Facebook sites:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-I...08335132580208

Twitter: @woodlandleague

I emailed The Tree Council in December, as they are the umbrella group for Coillte etc. but to date I have not received a reply, which is disgraceful. I will be following that up again.

As usual, deals such as this are often done behind closed doors, so it is vital that a LOT of attention is drawn to it, and a lot more signatures are required if the petition is going to be deemed significant enough to stop it.

just a quick correction on the link to facebook its http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Irish-Forests/108335132580208

The issue about transparency was a major running issue for most parties and yet we already seem to have a severe lack of it on this issue. Heres hoping that changes very soon. I must commend you on your post

The Raven.

zumobishopreal wrote: »

just a quick correction on the link to facebook its http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Irish-Forests/108335132580208

The issue about transparency was a major running issue for most parties and yet we already seem to have a severe lack of it on this issue. Heres hoping that changes very soon. I must commend you on your post

Thanks for that. I had copied your link and that is why it didn't work. I had to go to the website to get it. Now it works.

The Raven.

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

Another informative thread here.

Mine got locked. Probably didn't belong there though.

Yes I read your thread. Pity it got locked. It seems that it was in the wrong forum. A few others got locked also.

You made a very interesting point here:

We have kind of grown "immune" as a society to scandals and the like with what has gone on here in the last few years but to pretty much give away 1,099,618 million acres of Ireland......Im lost for words.

PS. Did you mean '1,099,618 acres'?

Ray Burkes Pension

Everything must be fecking great in Ireland if people have time to protest about something that isn't gonna happen.

MASTER...of the bra

The Raven. wrote: »

PS. Did you mean '1,099,618 acres'?

This is the official Tender Notice which has the land mass in hectares, 445,000ha, it makes it sound small (which it isin't) so I converted it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Can anyone explain what this merging of Bord na Mona and Coillte would mean for the forests, in lay mans terms?

I'm thinking of all the forest parks that are used by the public for free now. Are they going to become "working forests" as in chopped down and replanted year on year to provide energy? Will they still be open to the public if there's forwarders and logging lorries rumbling around?

zumobishopreal

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Can anyone explain what this merging of Bord na Mona and Coillte would mean for the forests, in lay mans terms?

I'm thinking of all the forest parks that are used by the public for free now. Are they going to become "working forests" as in chopped down and replanted year on year to provide energy? Will they still be open to the public if there's forwarders and logging lorries rumbling around?

Basically the merger would mean that potentially privatise our state forests and our gas supply. This neciscerally does not have to be a bad thing if measures are put in place to protect the usage of these assets but historically speaking that rarely happens. Basically the land could be sold out to foreign inverstors. Like the local woodland of Ballyclough that "consisted of 70 acres of Wild Cherry, Oak, Birch, Ash and Hazel, and was home to the Red Squirrel and numerous Bat species (Bat’s are supposed to be the most protected species in Europe). It is well known international fact that stability in life is conferred by natural native woodlands, via the management of water, soil, air, etc."
Not only that but the timber was burned on site. So none of the local residents where allowed to even avail of the timber. The flora and fauna of the are awas completely destroyed. The IFF sold off the land that is owned by the Irish people OUR forests estates in order to turn a profit.

zumobishopreal

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm thinking of all the forest parks that are used by the public for free now. Are they going to become "working forests" as in chopped down and replanted year on year to provide energy? Will they still be open to the public if there's forwarders and logging lorries rumbling around?

Yes its a shame but private companies could do whatever they want with the land and there would be very little that we could do about it

kippy

zumobishopreal wrote: »

Yes its a shame but private companies could do whatever they want with the land and there would be very little that we could do about it

Well, there is this thing called planning permission which can be used to stop companies doing whatever they want with the land.
There's also these things called terms and conditions that can be attached to sales of assets in order to protect these assets.

All that being said, I am not for the actual sale of these resources (the land) to any private entity. I wouldn't mind contracting out the running of the forests to private entities under terms and conditions but as yet we still havent been told exactly what is going to happen here.

OhNoYouDidn't

kippy wrote: »

"Negative and one-upmanship"
Explain please.
Land gets sold to private entities all the time by the way and I am not pro selling the forests to any private entity either.
In fact, as you can see I have been proactive with the politicians who claim to represent this country.
Online pools and facebook groups are the most pointless way of doing anything.
If everyone spent the time mailing/phoneing or texting their local TD's instead of signing up to these kind of things campaigns would be far more effective.

The problem is a lack of awareness of this plan. FB is a good way of letting people know what is going on. FB in itself won't stop the plan, but it raises awareness.

Voodoo_rasher

here's an on-going thread

http://www.politics.ie/environment/144127-lets-keep-eye-coillte-15.html

p15 and p16 suggest it is already sold ((

Soldie

What's the problem with these forests being sold?

My local fine gael td sent this to me today

Firstly, allow me to outline the plans for our forestry sector, as agreed in the Programme for Government. In order to accelerate the development of Ireland’s forestry and bioenergies, our NewERA plan will merge together Bord na Mona and Coillte to create a new State company called BioEnergy Ireland to become a global leader in the commercialisation of next generation bio-energy technologies, including an annual 14,700 hectare afforestation programme. This will mean a growth in the sector and the investment will be very important for the future of the industry.


In relation to the sale of any state assets, we will target up to €2 billion in sales of non-strategic state assets drawing from the recommendations of the McCarthy Review Group on State Assets when available. Assets will only be sold when market conditions are right and when adequate regulatory structures have been established to protect consumer interests.I will, of course, continue to monitor developments in this issue and I will be in contact when I have further details. Thank you for taking the time to raise this issue with me, which I know is of importance to many people across this country.

Yours Sincerely,

Soldie

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

7% of the country has been/is being given away on the cheap

The majority of the country is already in private hands.

SupaNova

From Wikepedia:

Afforestation is the establishment of a forest or stand of trees in an area where the preceding vegetation or land use was not forest.

This doesn't sound like they are going to chop all the trees down. I am not a fan of Bertie though.

OhNoYouDidn't

Soldie wrote: »

What's the problem with these forests being sold?

Ask yourself WHY would anyone want to buy 7% of the landmass of the country? Not for the good of their health.

Obviously they will either cut down all the trees, sell the land for development or charge people to access mountain trails. Or all three.

Either way, its the population of Ireland who lose out. Again.

OhNoYouDidn't

Soldie wrote: »

The majority of the country is already in private hands.

So we give away all the rest of it cheap?

There are ecological, environmental, recreational and tourist reasons why we have forests. The state stepped in to replant forests that previous generations destroyed. Now we have sold this land off and lost control of its use.

Shulgin

Soldie wrote: »

The majority of the country is already in private hands.

What's the problem with these forests being sold?

We are just the latest victims of people far far away owning the land we live on, and the resources around it. It's not right. It always happens when the IMF are involved.

We are being screwed and fine gael/labour etc are all part of this treason, unknowingly or not.

The pyramid scheme continues, and we are heading straight for the bottom of it, all to bail out speculators. great.

Soldie

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Ask yourself WHY would anyone want to buy 7% of the landmass of the country? Not for the good of their health.

Obviously they will either cut down all the trees, sell the land for development or charge people to access mountain trails. Or all three.

Either way, its the population of Ireland who lose out. Again.

Somehow I don't think the owner of the International Forestry fund is in the business of "cut[ting] down all the trees".

Feel free to peruse this thread and have a look at Coillte's handiwork.

Also, what reason do you have to believe that the forests are being sold on the cheap?

OhNoYouDidn't

Soldie wrote: »

Somehow I don't think the owner of the International Forestry fund is in the business of "cut[ting] down all the trees".

Feel free to peruse this thread and have a look at Coillte's handiwork.

Also, what reason do you have to believe that the forests are being sold on the cheap?

€2bn seems very cheap for the land in question.

I suppose the point is I, and no-one else, seems to know exactly how they do plan on making their money back. And until we know more, the fact that Bertie is in the thick of it and experience with the Irish state getting awful deals for our natural resources (gas and fish being two prime examples) I will remain very cynical.

zumobishopreal

seeing as the land is priceless to many

MASTER...of the bra

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Can anyone explain what this merging of Bord na Mona and Coillte would mean for the forests, in lay mans terms?

I'm thinking of all the forest parks that are used by the public for free now. Are they going to become "working forests" as in chopped down and replanted year on year to provide energy? Will they still be open to the public if there's forwarders and logging lorries rumbling around?

The trees Coillte sow take at least 15 years to grow to a size worth cutting, there cutting down a section in the forest near me at the minute, people can still go in, you just have to take a little detour.

The merged company Bioenergy Ireland sounds Ok at the minute as long as it stays State owned.

Soldie wrote: »

What's the problem with these forests being sold?

.....

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

€2bn seems very cheap for the land in question.

I suppose the point is I, and no-one else, seems to know exactly how they do plan on making their money back. And until we know more, the fact that Bertie is in the thick of it and experience with the Irish state getting awful deals for our natural resources (gas and fish being two prime examples) I will remain very cynical.

€1.2bn actually, for all those trees and all that land??? At least it's a step up from giving away Corrib.

What else does the McCarthy report recommend we give sell?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

MASTER...of the bra wrote: »

The trees Coillte sow take at least 15 years to grow to a size worth cutting, there cutting down a section in the forest near me at the minute, people can still go in, you just have to take a little detour.

The merged company Bioenergy Ireland sounds Ok at the minute as long as it stays State owned.

€1.2bn actually, for all those trees and all that land??? At least it's a step up from giving away Corrib.

What else does the McCarthy report recommend we give sell?

That seems like a much better option than selling them off completely. I read through the programme for government today and they mentioned an anual afforestation of 14,700 acres as well so all in all it's sounding a lot better than before.

This is what it says about sales of state assets.

Over time, we also propose to finance the investment programme from the sale of certain state
assets.
We will target up to 2 billion in sales of non-strategic state assets drawing from the
recommendations of the McCarthy Review Group on State Assets when available. Assets will only be sold when market conditions are right and when adequate regulatory
structures have been established to protect consumer interests.

I only remember them talking about the forests and the port authority before the election. I'm not sure what else they were thinking about.

zumobishopreal

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That seems like a much better option than selling them off completely. I read through the programme for government today and they mentioned an anual afforestation of 14,700 acres as well so all in all it's sounding a lot better than before.

This is what it says about sales of state assets.



I only remember them talking about the forests and the port authority before the election. I'm not sure what else they were thinking about.

I am hoping to get clarification on what exactly what they mean by non strategic. Until I hear the government come out an state in no uncertain terms that they will not sell the public forests then I will not be content about this issue

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

zumobishopreal wrote: »

I am hoping to get clarification on what exactly what they mean by non strategic. Until I hear the government come out an state in no uncertain terms that they will not sell the public forests then I will not be content about this issue

I've no idea which ones they consider non strategic. An Post, the airports and numerous other transport, RTE, ESB, Bord Gas, Coillte etc. etc. are all state owned, at least partly. How do you decide what's strategic and what's not? Will it be a case of whichever ones they get the best offers for?
I agree that some clarification is necessary here.

I wonder would getting in touch with the Greens be of any use? I know there's none of them in the Dáil this time around but they seem the most likely to make a noise about this. Although how much noise can you make when you've no TD's?

MASTER...of the bra

zumobishopreal wrote: »

I am hoping to get clarification on what exactly what they mean by non strategic. Until I hear the government come out an state in no uncertain terms that they will not sell the public forests then I will not be content about this issue

You won't have long to wait, there's an announcement on Wednesday apparently.

I don't know why we just can't sell the carbon credits like Brazil is going to

Brazil could make up to $16 billion (£9.5 billion) every year to put towards the cost of Amazon rainforest protection and emission cuts if it takes steps to sell on its carbon credits, it has been reported.

According to extracts from an interview published by Reuters, head of the Brazilian Carbon Markets Association Flavio Gazani said that the country could earn between eight and sixteen billion every year.