The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Lemlin

Cavan Juniors beat Wexford Juniors in the Leinster Championship last night. The team was:

James Farrelly (Kingscourt)
Dara Tighe (Killeshandra)
Rory Dunne (Redhills)
Fergal Slowey ( Ballyhaise)
Enda O'Connell (Castlerahan)
Joshua Hayes (Cootehill)
Killian Brady (Mullahoran)
Declan McKiernan (Killeshandra)
Sean Gaffney (Kill 1-0)
Chris Conroy (Lavey 1-0)
Martin Reilly (Killygarry (0-2)
Keith Fannin (Drumgoon)
Oisin O'Connell (Cataslerahan 0-01)
Barry McKiernan (Crosserlough 0-02)
Martin Dunne (Cavan Gaels 1-05)

Subs:
Darren Tiernan (Kill 0-1) for O'O'Connell, Michael Reilly (Sherock) for Martin Reilly, Niall McKiernan (Lacken) for Sean Gaffney, James Morris (Arva) for D. Tighe, Brendan Murray (Killygarry 1-0) for B. McKiernan.

Final score: 4-11 to 1-12.

Good win and great to see some of the players to gain experience there - Rory Dunne, Josha Hayes, Martin Reilly and Martin Dunne could all add to the senior panel this year. Apparently Rory Dunne played very well at full-back and was marking the one and only Mattie Forde. Martin Dunne scored 1-5 and, in reference to Richiej saying above that he should be in the senior panel, he obviously is being considered by Terry. However, I have to say that, having watched the league games, he needs to make improvements to his game. In both the Sligo and Offaly league games, I watched some infuriating shooting from him. He could be standing at the corner flag and he'd shoot rather than pass. After the Offaly game, I happily said I wouldn't see him in a blue shirt again. I wouldn't read too much into him scoring 1-5 against Redhills in a league game either. Oisin O'Connell and Chris Conroy were scoring that or more for their teams in Championship games last year and both lads weren't played in the league like Dunne was.

It's pleasing to see though that Terry is making good use of the Junior championship. I thought in previous years it was somewhat wasted by playing lads like Jason Reilly who had opted out of senior. After all, its about testing lads who could potentially make your senior team and that's what Terry seems to be doing.

In response to Richie's posts:

Number 1 re Johnston: Of course McGeeney is going to say that. It could well be true but Johnston's attitude for Cavan and his attitude for Kildare will be entirely two different things.

Number 2 re Donegal there for the taking: Please don't be ludicrous. We're talking about a team here that beat Kildare, who are being lauded as 4th favourites for the Championship on another thread, and won Ulster last year, before reaching an All-Ireland semi final. This year they have cemented their place in Division 1 while we were hanging on by the skin of our teeth in Division 3. That Donegal team is light years ahead of Cavan in terms of development. They never even had to push into second gear against Cavan. I've addressed your point re Martin Dunne above and I doubt you see too many games with your location being the UK to be honest so I doubt you are too aware of how he performed in the League matches where he was tried out. The Ulster U21 final - Donegal were a better team. The All-Ireland U21 final - Galway were a better team. Hyland has delivered two U21 Ulster titles to end a famine stretching back years. He deserves his chance at the big job and he needs time. We've had 7 managers in 9 years. Whatever you say about each, it can't all be the managers. One needs to be given time to attempt to build something. Changing every two years isn't working. Keating is actually one of his U21 brigade so you're incorrect there. As for players over 23/24, most have been tried at this stage. We've tried something like 100 players at senior level since '01. I don't think there's too many in the county that are capable of playing senior football that can say they haven't been tested. Who would you bring in that isn't there for example?

One thing that is annoying me is the comments of the GAA community in relation to the Johnston transfer. Listening to On the Ball last Thursday evening, journalist Martin Brehony commented that he couldn't see why Cavan were letting Johnston go and that they could have done with him last Sunday against Donegal. Kevin Cassidy also Tweeted the same. Did these lads miss the game last year where Johnston played against Donegal and we had a worse performance than this year? It's annoying to hear the team run down like that. We're no world beaters but I think comments like that are underhand.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

One thing that is annoying me is the comments of the GAA community in relation to the Johnston transfer. Listening to On the Ball last Thursday evening, journalist Martin Brehony commented that he couldn't see why Cavan were letting Johnston go and that they could have done with him last Sunday against Donegal. Kevin Cassidy also Tweeted the same. Did these lads miss the game last year where Johnston played against Donegal and we had a worse performance than this year? It's annoying to hear the team run down like that. We're no world beaters but I think comments like that are underhand.

Stating that one of the top forwards in the country would improve a team, who as you have said yourself barely hung on to Division 3 status and are light years behind Donegal is hardly being underhand, its a logical and valid point, one that has been made here and in the Johnson thread many many times.

augustus gloop

premierstone wrote: »

Stating that one of the top forwards in the country would improve a team, who as you have said yourself barely hung on to Division 3 status and are light years behind Donegal is hardly being underhand, its a logical and valid point, one that has been made here and in the Johnson thread many many times.

from the few lads i know on the panel, the general feeling is alot better without him, and it has knitted the group together, removing the aggro he seemed to cause.

premierstone

augustus gloop wrote: »

from the few lads i know on the panel, the general feeling is alot better without him, and it has knitted the group together, removing the aggro he seemed to cause.

Quite possible, but my point really was how it can be viewed as underhand by Breheny and Cassidy to state Cavan would be improved by having him in their team, they were looking at it from an ability perspective.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

Stating that one of the top forwards in the country would improve a team, who as you have said yourself barely hung on to Division 3 status and are light years behind Donegal is hardly being underhand, its a logical and valid point, one that has been made here and in the Johnson thread many many times.

I wouldn't see it as logical or valid to be honest given Cavan's performance last year when they played Donegal. Johnston played, scored one free and Cavan lost 2-14 to 1-8, by 9 points.

This year Johnston didn't play and Cavan scored more, conceded less and lost by six points, 1-16 to 1-10.

So, to suggest that Cavan could have done with Johnston against Donegal is underhand IMO. The stats and performance show they were better off without him.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

I wouldn't see it as logical or valid to be honest given Cavan's performance last year when they played Donegal. Johnston played, scored one free and Cavan lost 2-14 to 1-8, by 9 points.

This year Johnston didn't play and Cavan scored more, conceded less and lost by six points, 1-16 to 1-10.

So, to suggest that Cavan could have done with Johnston against Donegal is underhand IMO. The stats and performance show they were better off without him.

Yes comparing two games 12 months apart with different managers and both teams having differnt line-ups is an excellent way of measuring a teams performance. Do you think Cavan are within 6 points of Donegal btw??

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

Yes comparing two games 12 months apart with different managers and both teams having differnt line-ups is an excellent way of measuring a teams performance. Do you think Cavan are within 6 points of Donegal btw??

Donegal have the same manager. Hyland was co-manager of Cavan last year. Have a look at the Donegal starting 15 this year compared to last. They are almost identical.

7 of Cavan's starting 15 this year started both games. Mark McKeever came on as a sub last year but started this year. Dane O'Dowd started last year but came on as a sub this year. Tomas Corr came on as a sub in both games. It's also worth noting that Padraig O'Reilly and Ronan Flanagan who started this year would have started last year but for injury. John McCutcheon who started last year would have started this year but for an injury.

Yes, the line-ups were different but not hugely different.

So, if its unfair for me to use the two games as a measure of performance, how is it fair for Brehony and Cassidy to assume that Johnston would have made a different this year when he couldn't last year?

That's what I feel is underhand about their comments.

I've said it to you on a number of occasions now, I fail to see why you jump into topics when you haven't read the previous posts. I've said a number of times that Donegal are light years ahead of Cavan. Donegal, for me, are the fourth best team in the country. You have the top trio of Dublin, Cork and Kerry, then you have Donegal, and then you have Mayo, Tyrone, Derry and Kildare.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

Donegal have the same manager. Hyland was co-manager of Cavan last year. Have a look at the Donegal starting 15 this year compared to last. They are almost identical.

7 of Cavan's starting 15 this year started both games. Mark McKeever came on as a sub last year but started this year. Dane O'Dowd started last year but came on as a sub this year. Tomas Corr came on as a sub in both games. It's also worth noting that Padraig O'Reilly and Ronan Flanagan who started this year would have started last year but for injury. John McCutcheon who started last year would have started this year but for an injury.

Yes, the line-ups were different but not hugely different.

So, if its unfair for me to use the two games as a measure of performance, how is it fair for Brehony and Cassidy to assume that Johnston would have made a different this year when he couldn't last year?

That's what I feel is underhand about their comments.

I've said it to you on a number of occasions now, I fail to see why you jump into topics when you haven't read the previous posts. I've said a number of times that Donegal are light years ahead of Cavan. Donegal, for me, are the fourth best team in the country. You have the top trio of Dublin, Cork and Kerry, then you have Donegal, and then you have Mayo, Tyrone, Derry and Kildare.

So following your logic Tipperary are twice as good a football team without Barry Grogan based on our respective results against Kerry??

See me and any sane person can see that last Sunday doesnt actually reflect the real gap between the two teams and Kerry had an off day.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

So following your logic Tipperary are twice as good a football team without Barry Grogan based on our respective results against Kerry??

See me and any sane person can see that last Sunday doesnt actually reflect the real gap between the two teams and Kerry had an off day.

I thought putting it in bold would simplify my point for you but I'll re-iterate it:

How is it fair for Brehony and Cassidy to assume that Johnston would have made a difference this year when he couldn't last year?

I'm not commenting on anything to do with Tipperary football or Barry Grogan. I don't know anything about Tipperary football so I wouldn't comment on it. I can only wish others would follow the same train of thought.

Was Barry Grogan poor against Kerry last year despite being lauded as Tipperary's star forward? Have Martin Brehony and Kevin Cassidy said that Tipperary could have done with Barry Grogan against Kerry, despite the fact that he played last year and the result against Kerry was worse? That's my logic.

I'm not saying anything about anyone being twice as good or otherwise. That's your twisting of the point. What I am saying is that a player played against Donegal last year and had no impact on the proceedings. Now, a year later, Cavan play Donegal again and you have individuals saying that Cavan "could have done with Johnston against Donegal". How exactly? He made no difference last year so why would he make any this year? As I've stated, Cavan had a better performance this year without the player. That's a fact. As I said, and I'll repeat, it all boils down to:

How is it fair for Brehony and Cassidy to assume that Johnston would have made a difference this year when he couldn't last year?

I don't get the point re the sane person either. Have you seen the Cavan Donegal games? Any sane person can see Donegal didn't even move out of first gear but then they didn't last year either.

rebel girl 15

premierstone wrote: »

So following your logic Tipperary are twice as good a football team without Barry Grogan based on our respective results against Kerry??

See me and any sane person can see that last Sunday doesnt actually reflect the real gap between the two teams and Kerry had an off day.

Premierstone - this is the Cavan GAA thread, not about Munster football at all - stop taking the thread off topic and insulting other posters

Lemlin

Cavan Juniors now playing Longford tomorrow evening in Longford. Hopefully the lads will go far in this competition. The past two years Cavan have made the final only to lose to Louth and Kildare respectively. There's at least 4 or 5 players on this Junior team capable of adding to the senior panel.

Johner

Cavan scored a goal on the stroke of full time to win.

Longford 1-10 Cavan 2-08.

Lemlin

Johner wrote: »

Cavan scored a goal on the stroke of full time to win.

Longford 1-10 Cavan 2-08.

Last night's team:

James Farrelly
Dara Tighe
Damien Barkey (Ramor)
Fergal Slowey
Enda O'Connell
Joshua Hayes
Killian Brady
Brendan Murray (KIllygarry)
Sean Gaffney (0-1)
Chris Conroy
Martin Reilly (1-1)
Keith Fannin
Oisin O'Connell (0-1)
Barry McKiernan (0-1)
Martin Dunne (0-4)

Subs: Conor McClarey (1-0) for B. McKiernan, D. Sexton for Brady, D. Tiernan for Oisin O'Connell, P. O'Connor for Fannin.

I was at the game last night and it was poor fare at times. You'd know it was a Junior game. The bottom line was we snatched a result with almost the last kick of the game, Martin Reilly scoring a goal for us to win 2-8 to 1-10. I wasn't at last week's game so can't comment on how good Wexford were or the performance but there were very poor periods of football in last night's game. It was a huge pity that Rory Dunne seems to have picked up another injury and was doing waterboy. Declan McKiernan also wasn't available last night due to injury and those were the only two changes in the team.

Damien Barkey did well at full-back and will certainly be back in the senior team and I'd expect to see him back at corner back as he was one of our better players in the League. Joshua Hayes was also excellent and I'd expect to see him starting also. Martin Reilly's distribution was excellent and after a couple of injury ravaged seasons, he's certainly one to look at, even as an impact sub. He's a good free taker as well which Cavan could do with.

Martin Dunne scored 4 points but again reminded me of why I didn't want to see him in a Cavan jersey again earlier this year. His shooting was atrocious at times. He needs to learn to recycle the ball rather than just put the head down and shoot, even if he's at the corner flag. I hate to say it but he reminds me of a poor man's Johnston. He also isn't a man who will give his all in a 50-50 challenge. Conor McClarey was very good when he came on but I'm not sure he is senior standard yet.

Of the match last night, I'd be looking at Barkey and Hayes as starters for the seniors and Reilly for the panel. Fannin and Fergal Slowey could also creep in. It'd be great if we won the competition but we lost to Kildare in the final last year and, sadly, I expect them to beat Meath next week and the same to happen in the final this year.

It obviously shows though that our junior panel is decent in that this is the third year we have reached the Leinster junior final. Now, if only we could get our seniors playing a bit better!

DoctaDee

Fair play to ya Lemlin ... need great committment to head to Longford to watch junior football on a night like last

Lemlin

DoctaDee wrote: »

Fair play to ya Lemlin ... need great committment to head to Longford to watch junior football on a night like last

We get few enough intercounty games with Cavan that I try to get to as many as I can!

I was interested in seeing a few of the players last night too. Had been hearing great things about Joshua Hayes and he didn't disappoint. He really pushed the team on in the second half.

Just a pity that Rory Dunne wasn't playing. My previous team for te qualifiers would have been:

James Reilly, Killian Clarke, Podge O'Reilly, Damien Barkey, Jason McLoughlin, John McCutcheon, James McEnroe, Gearoid McKiernan, David Givney, Niall Smith, Mark McKeever, Niall McDermott, Eugene Keating, Jack Brady, Kevin Tierney,

I'd now be looking at:

James Reilly, Killian Clarke, Podge O'Reilly, Damien Barkey, Mossie Corr, John McCutcheon, Joshua Hayes, Gearoid McKiernan, David Givney, Niall Smith, Mark McKeever, Niall McDermott, Jack Brady, Eugene Keating, Kevin Tierney.

James McEnroe seems to be injured and doesn't look like he'll be back any time soon and McLoughlin is still a bit young. Therefore I'd move Mossie and Hayes in.

That starting 15 would leave the likes of Maloney Dernham, Meehan, Ray Cullivan, Damien Reilly and Martin Reilly to come on if needed.

If Reilly keeps performing like he is for Killygarry and the Juniors, I'd nearly move him in for McDermott, move McDermott to the full forward line and give Tierney another year.

celt262

Lemlin wrote: »

McLoughlin is still a bit young.

Same age as clarke.

DoctaDee

Yeah Lemlin, the importance of a good Junior setup can't be overlooked. Off the top of my head, Bastick, Fitzsimons, Cooper and O'Gara have made the jump from our AI Junior team in 2008 to varying degrees of success in the senior panel. There's no fast-track path to finding a strong senior panel - enough counties have shown that underage success is not necessarily a breeding ground.. cheers

Greenngold

Been reading this forum a while first time poster..

James McEnroe isn't injured he transferred to a club in London called Parenells around the end of March. Hence why he hasn't been involed with Cavan this year. He was injured i think around Janurary alright during the Mckenna cup. He is a big loss to Cavan football but such is the way things are lads will go where the work is. Sean Maguire and Lorcan Muley have been over there since the middle of last year. Mulvey played during the league and the championship game against Leitrim.

btw Jason Mcloughlin is older than Killian Clarke. Next year is MCloughlin's last year at u21.

Lemlin

Greenngold wrote: »

Been reading this forum a while first time poster..

James McEnroe isn't injured he transferred to a club in London called Parenells around the end of March. Hence why he hasn't been involed with Cavan this year. He was injured i think around Janurary alright during the Mckenna cup. He is a big loss to Cavan football but such is the way things are lads will go where the work is. Sean Maguire and Lorcan Muley have been over there since the middle of last year. Mulvey played during the league and the championship game against Leitrim.

btw Jason Mcloughlin is older than Killian Clarke. Next year is MCloughlin's last year at u21.

Thanks for the info re McEnroe. I was wondering why he hadn't been around in a while and thought it was injury again. Are you sure it was as early as March he transferred? A lad I know reckons he played for Ramor against Killygarry in the League and that would have been around April/May. That's why I knew he was back from injury and wondered where he was.

Maguire and Mulvey both played for the London champions last year alright. I think its Fulham GAA club they are with.

I didn't phrase that correctly about McLoughlin/Clarke to be honest. While I appreciate that McLoughlin is the older player, Clarke looks a better talent and that's why I think he'd be fit to play even when younger than McLoughlin. I still feel McLoughlin could do with a few League games next year where I wouldn't mind throwing Clarke into the fray now.

The qualifier draw isn't looking great. Galway, Roscommon, Kerry and Armagh all in there now.

celt262

Lemlin wrote: »

Thanks for the info re McEnroe. I was wondering why he hadn't been around in a while and thought it was injury again. Are you sure it was as early as March he transferred? A lad I know reckons he played for Ramor against Killygarry in the League and that would have been around April/May. That's why I knew he was back from injury and wondered where he was.

Maguire and Mulvey both played for the London champions last year alright. I think its Fulham GAA club they are with.

I didn't phrase that correctly about McLoughlin/Clarke to be honest. While I appreciate that McLoughlin is the older player, Clarke looks a better talent and that's why I think he'd be fit to play even when younger than McLoughlin. I still feel McLoughlin could do with a few League games next year where I wouldn't mind throwing Clarke into the fray now.

The qualifier draw isn't looking great. Galway, Roscommon, Kerry and Armagh all in there now.

I dont think Galway and Kerry will be in this qualifer draw.

Mardy Bum

Paul Brady won the Canadian Nationals two weeks ago. One more trophy added to the list.

Greenngold

Cavan Juniors are playing Kildare in the Junior final next wed. Kildare beat Meath 10-9 after being down 8-1 at half time whatever happened Meath in the second half..:D Seanie won't be eligable but hopefully we can get revenge for last years defeat.

Syferus

Jayus, supporters from other counties being wary of us! The Ros may have won the league game pulling up but for the first 50 minutes it was probably the best game of football I saw all league, save Longford.

I wouldn't be picking Cavan as easy touches in Round 1. Both counties share alot in terms of where we're at overall and it'd be likely we'd see plenty of rematches from the u21 semi were we to meet.

Greenngold

Looking at Roscommon against Galway it wouldn't fill me with fear:P They are a decent side, but that was a poor showing that day. I wouldn't say they are alot better than Cavan, Eugene Keating didn't play against Ros or Gearoid McKiernan or any of the u21's. Whoever Cavan get hopefully it's a home draw.

Lemlin

Greenngold wrote: »

Looking at Roscommon against Galway it wouldn't fill me with fear:P They are a decent side, but that was a poor showing that day. I wouldn't say they are alot better than Cavan, Eugene Keating didn't play against Ros or Gearoid McKiernan or any of the u21's. Whoever Cavan get hopefully it's a home draw.

Roscommon have had some success in recent years making the Connacht final last year (albeit with two relatively easy games) and winning Connacht in 2010. I would say, like Longford, they are a few years ahead of Cavan in development.

I still don't think some people are realising how low we've sunk. We've won three championship games in six years folks. Its a stat I keep throwing out but one that people keep forgetting. All three of those games were against Division 4 (at the time) teams.

No team will be fearing Cavan. I even heard that we're 100-1 odds to win the All-Ireland which is the same odds as London and Carlow. The latter of whom having drawn with Meath appear a better team than I gave them credit for.

DARK-KNIGHT

Lemlin wrote: »

Roscommon have had some success in recent years making the Connacht final last year (albeit with two relatively easy games) and winning Connacht in 2010. I would say, like Longford, they are a few years ahead of Cavan in development.

I still don't think some people are realising how low we've sunk. We've won three championship games in six years folks. Its a stat I keep throwing out but one that people keep forgetting. All three of those games were against Division 4 (at the time) teams.

No team will be fearing Cavan. I even heard that we're 100-1 odds to win the All-Ireland which is the same odds as London and Carlow. The latter of whom having drawn with Meath appear a better team than I gave them credit for.

Jesus lemlin have Cavan really only won 3 games in 6 years?? That is a shocking statistic tbh!!!

Underage look handy though maybe next few years players will come through for you

Greenngold

Tbh i think Connacht football is low quality.. Mayo are always talked up every year but always fall short. Galways loss to Sligo shows they are no great shakes, Cavan only won 2 games in the league this year and one was against Sligo.

Syferus

Greenngold wrote: »

Tbh i think Connacht football is low quality.. Mayo are always talked up every year but always fall short. Galways loss to Sligo shows they are no great shakes, Cavan only won 2 games in the league this year and one was against Sligo.

Nice try. But try harder next time.

Lemlin

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Jesus lemlin have Cavan really only won 3 games in 6 years?? That is a shocking statistic tbh!!!

Underage look handy though maybe next few years players will come through for you

Yep, three Championship games. An Ulster preliminary round game against Antrim in 2007, a first round tie against Fermanagh in 2009 and a qualifier against Wicklow in 2010.

Pretty damning statistic to be honest so I don't see how any Cavan person could be saying we wouldn't fear Roscommon, or any other team for that matter.

Greenngold

Yep, three Championship games. An Ulster preliminary round game against Antrim in 2007, a first round tie against Fermanagh in 2009 and a qualifier against Wicklow in 2010.

A stat from those 3 wins is that Johnston was probaly Cavans best player or made the most telling contribution in them 3 wins. I wouldn't go bye last year's form as against Donegal and Longford, but in the previous 6/7 years it was Johnston who made the difference whenever Cavan won in the champinship. Time for these new lads like Jack Brady, Bud Fitz and Martin Dunne who i presume will be close to the team for the qualifier match to step up and show that Cavan can survive without Johnston.