Top five reasons small businesses dump their PC for a Mac

Freddie59

ZENER wrote: »

Where did I mention trackpads ? By default a Mouse supplied with an Apple computer defaults to a single button operation until changed in System Preferences !

In previous versions of the Macbook Pro where there is an actual button visible these too were single button. On my Dual Core 1.83GHz MBP (Winter 2006 ?) there is only one button with no option to enable Right-Click though the two fingered tap does work as Right-Click on the trackpad.

Ken

Bought a 27" iMac in June 2010. This came enabled.:)

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

Those statements are incorrect. Apple is very quick to fix security holes that affect the revenue stream, if it doesn't impact the cash cow it takes a while longer to fix.

For example if there is a known flaw in iOS which enables people to jailbreak their iPhone/iPad/iPod, Apple will fix it in the next release. However if the same flaw is to be found in OS X it can be months/several updates before the fix is released.

Another area where Apple falls down is the support for previous versions of the system. Patches for older versions of the operating system are very slow to appear even though a significant portion of users are on older systems. Not everybody can afford to be on the latest and greatest to stay up to date and 'secure'.

Yes if your using OS X 10.3 panther from 2003-2004 then your cheap. It still supports OS X Tiger from 2005. Tiger is the Windows XP of OS'es. Is microsoft still supporting that? Not to mention you don't need good hardware to upgrade. OS X from 2007 could run on a 2002 PowerBook G4 good! OS X currently (Snow leopard) can run on the first intel Macs in 2006.
Also Apple releases security updates for OS X if there's a leak, I'm not sure where you are getting your facts from because they are not released in OS X 10.6.x updates. Sometimes there called "Security update xx/xx/xx (Date)" For OS X Lion Apple hired a few hackers to find holes in the system. Does microsoft ever do that? See they are smart sons of guns!.

ingen

i dumped my windows pc's for macs, the core i7 chip is lightening fast, and runs a parallels win7 virtual machine, real fast, on an external monitor connected to a mac, its the same as sitting in front of the old windows 7 pc, with the benefit, of running it all from one computer (mac).


i like the part also that parallels lets you migrate your old windows pc, including all settings, data on it, and run it as a virtual machine on the mac.

office for mac 2011 runs great, so now i have all my windows based apps running perfectly on macs, so no more need for windows as my core OS anymore.

Talisman

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes if your using OS X 10.3 panther from 2003-2004 then your cheap. It still supports OS X Tiger from 2005. Tiger is the Windows XP of OS'es. Is microsoft still supporting that? Not to mention you don't need good hardware to upgrade.

Windows XP was released in December 2001, it's end of life is April 2014. That's when Microsoft will stop providing software fixes for the OS.

OS X 10.4 Tiger was released in April 2005. The last software update for Tiger was 10.4.11, released on 14 November, 2007. The last security update for 10.4.x was 10 September, 2009. Since then the only Apple updates for that particular system have been for iTunes and Safari. How you can you seriously suggest Apple are still supporting Tiger?

OS X from 2007 could run on a 2002 PowerBook G4 good! OS X currently (Snow leopard) can run on the first intel Macs in 2006.
Also Apple releases security updates for OS X if there's a leak, I'm not sure where you are getting your facts from because they are not released in OS X 10.6.x updates. Sometimes there called "Security update xx/xx/xx (Date)" For OS X Lion Apple hired a few hackers to find holes in the system. Does microsoft ever do that? See they are smart sons of guns!.

Apple have been very lax about security in the past but they are improving.

In August 2008, Wired revealed a security hole that allowed a user to access the favorites, address book and mail system on a password protected iPhone. Apple saw it as a minor issue and fixed the issue in October.

In August 2010, Apple were made aware of a font exploit that could be used to run rogue code on iOS and also OS X. The exploit was being used to jailbreak the iPhone, Apple patched iOS to fix the exploit that month, the security firm that brought it to Apple's attention were told that OS X would be patched in October. In November, the security firm went public about the exploit as Apple still hadn't patched it.

Microsoft have been using security firms and hackers for hardening software since the 1990s. It's a new thing for Apple and they're happy to tell the world.

It will be interesting to see how they measure up in CanSecWest this year and how quickly Apple patch any reported security flaws found.

Talisman

Talisman wrote: »

Windows XP was released in December 2001, it's end of life is April 2014. That's when Microsoft will stop providing software fixes for the OS.

OS X 10.4 Tiger was released in April 2005. The last software update for Tiger was 10.4.11, released on 14 November, 2007. The last security update for 10.4.x was 10 September, 2009. Since then the only Apple updates for that particular system have been for iTunes and Safari. How you can you seriously suggest Apple are still supporting Tiger?

Apple have been very lax about security in the past but they are improving.

In August 2008, Wired revealed a security hole that allowed a user to access the favorites, address book and mail system on a password protected iPhone. Apple saw it as a minor issue and fixed the issue in October.

In August 2010, Apple were made aware of a font exploit that could be used to run rogue code on iOS and also OS X. The exploit was being used to jailbreak the iPhone, Apple patched iOS to fix the exploit that month, the security firm that brought it to Apple's attention were told that OS X would be patched in October. In November, the security firm went public about the exploit as Apple still hadn't patched it.

Microsoft have been using security firms and hackers for hardening software since the 1990s. It's a new thing for Apple and they're happy to tell the world.

It will be interesting to see how they measure up in CanSecWest this year and how quickly Apple patch any reported security flaws found.

2008. The 2nd iPhone. Their 2nd ever smartphone having to rework OS X on it. OH look Windows phone 7. And Microsoft never had any problems. Like that time when they accidentally released a software updated that bricked pretty much every Samsung windows phone in the universe. And you would think for a company who had windows phone 1 + 2 and all the way to 6.5 could have made sure on their first high profile phone nothing screwed up.

Oh and eh... http://www.coveringweb.com/2010/08/mac-os-x-gets-pdf-exploit-fix-in.html
http://www.applesheet.com/apple-mac-os-x-security-update-patches-pdf-exploit/2856/

That's from august 2010. You haven't read the Software upgrades. The 10.6.x and so on.

Yes I concede that perhaps they stopped supporting Tiger but it's still a good Operating system and is still compatible with most software.
Not to mention the world is still using XP probably because their hardware isn't good enough to either A) support Windows 7 or They don't know which version they need. Home premium, Sounds like a premium product. Professional sounds like something the cool kid would use. Ultimates a ultimate product. I'm not going to even talk about how stupid 7 Home basic is. And that whole stupid licensing thing. What ever happened to a "Full OS" usable on 5 computers for $129 or one licence for $29

kippy

Typically this has turned into a complete fanboi fest.

Talisman

kippy wrote: »

Typically this has turned into a complete fanboi fest.

That wasn't my intention when I replied to the thread.

Talisman

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh and eh... http://www.coveringweb.com/2010/08/mac-os-x-gets-pdf-exploit-fix-in.html
http://www.applesheet.com/apple-mac-os-x-security-update-patches-pdf-exploit/2856/

That's from august 2010. You haven't read the Software upgrades. The 10.6.x and so on.

The issue I was referring to was patched in the updates released on November 11th.

Yes I concede that perhaps they stopped supporting Tiger but it's still a good Operating system and is still compatible with most software.
Not to mention the world is still using XP probably because their hardware isn't good enough to either A) support Windows 7 or They don't know which version they need. Home premium, Sounds like a premium product. Professional sounds like something the cool kid would use. Ultimates a ultimate product. I'm not going to even talk about how stupid 7 Home basic is. And that whole stupid licensing thing. What ever happened to a "Full OS" usable on 5 computers for $129 or one licence for $29

Perhaps?

It's all well and good saying the OS only costs $129, but then you have also got to factor in the hidden costs of upgrading the software that a business needs in order to operate. For example, when Apple released Leopard, they changed the font support - it may have seemed like a nothing issue for ordinary joes but for the likes of print houses it was a major issue. Little/no support was provided by Apple to resolve such issues, Apple support representatives told a client of mine "Could you not just buy new fonts?". Font libraries cost an absolute fortune to buy, not to mention fonts that were bought years ago were not always available in the Leopard friendly format. Similarly Rosetta is being dropped from Lion so any user/business that relies on an old piece of software that runs on an 'old' architecture is at the end of the line as far as Apple are concerned.

BostonB

OSX sits on UNIX. Unix is inherently more secure.

Mac Office/Open Office. Neither has VBA. Many companies will have a load of existing VBA code that they won't move.

Most companies don't have any skillset in Mac OS. or development on same.

Johnmb

BostonB wrote: »

OSX sits on UNIX. Unix is inherently more secure.

Mac Office/Open Office. Neither has VBA. Many companies will have a load of existing VBA code that they won't move.

Most companies don't have any skillset in Mac OS. or development on same.

The thread is about small businesses, most of which don't have a skillset in Windows either, they just use the computers and buy software for them, they don't do any development for them. As for VBA, most small businesses wouldn't even know what that was, and as far as I know Mac Office does support it now (at least in part), it was only the 2008 version that didn't. For using spreadsheets and word processing, OpenOffice can do everything that 99.9% of small businesses would need, and can do it just as well as, if not better than, MS Office, and if they are a very technical business, the OO spreadsheet applications are actually capable of much more than Excel.

BostonB

My experience is that they do, theres always one or two power user, who does spreadsheet macros or forms in Access and coded macros behind them. Sometimes this stuff has been added to over years. Many 3rd party apps for excel or access are Windows only.

In general terms, if there was no barrier real or imagined, they'd all switch. But they don't. So arguing there is no barrier is kinda missing the point.

BostonB

These top five reasons could simply the author of the book opinion not based on any stats. Is it based on anything?

"Mac Migration: The Small Business Guide to Switching to the Mac"

it could be simply headline generating to promote his book.

Johnmb

The barrier is mainly perception, Mac OSX can do anything needed by most businesses (Small or otherwise), but people think they need Windows. In some cases they do, e.g. we use Sage accounting and payroll software, so I need to run Windows as a virtual machine in work for them, and Bank of Ireland's Business On-Line service is pathetic and only works with Internet Explorer. But, I don't use, nor need, MS Office. And if it wasn't for BOI, I doubt I'd be using Sage, there are Mac compatible accounting packages (I'd have to check about Irish payroll packages). The French civil service all use OpenOffice don't they? That would help save some money for the Irish civil service, switch to the free software suite, and then more and more small businesses would make the switch too.

BostonB

How does the civil service fit under the banner of small business?

Johnmb

BostonB wrote: »

How does the civil service fit under the banner of small business?

Like I said, the main thing stopping most small businesses from looking into using something other than Windows PCs and MS Office is perception. If the civil service were to switch, that would end a lot of the perceptions. Especially when you consider that the free suite can open both open standards and Office documents, but Office can't open documents saved in the open standards! (At least it couldn't, unless MS have finally decided to provide this basic service for the money they get)

BostonB

These are switching back....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70821573&postcount=1

http://www.microsoft.com/ireland/casestudies/content/beaumonthospital.html

kippy

Johnmb wrote: »

Like I said, the main thing stopping most small businesses from looking into using something other than Windows PCs and MS Office is perception. If the civil service were to switch, that would end a lot of the perceptions. Especially when you consider that the free suite can open both open standards and Office documents, but Office can't open documents saved in the open standards! (At least it couldn't, unless MS have finally decided to provide this basic service for the money they get)

Perception is a part of it but the bigger part is down to cost. Plain and simple.

BostonB

Have to say I could count on one hand the number of times I'd had to open a open document in a work scenario in 10yrs. Its just not an issue for most people. Whereas opening MS documents of 2007+ is a common one.

Johnmb

kippy wrote: »

Perception is a part of it but the bigger part is down to cost. Plain and simple.

Cost is free, as far as the OpenOffice.org suite is concerned. As far as PC v Mac is concerned, it depends on what the business is buying. Apple don't make cheap computers, so if that's what the business wants, PC is the only way to go. But if they are buying top of the range computers, Apple can actually be cheaper. At least it was for me when I was pricing the options between Apple and Dell, actually comparing like with like (and that was taking into account the fact that I had to buy a Windows 7 licence and Parallels as well for the Mac option!)

Johnmb

BostonB wrote: »

Have to say I could count on one hand the number of times I'd had to open a open document in a work scenario in 10yrs. Its just not an issue for most people. Whereas opening MS documents of 2007+ is a common one.

That's due to the perception that businesses need MS Office, most documents are created there. If people switched, they could still view MS Office documents, but they'd be creating documents using open standards (unless they chose to specifically save it as a MS Office document for some slow to adapt colleague, but a link to OpenOffice.org on the email with the attachment would be much better)

mickoneill30

Johnmb wrote: »

Cost is free, as far as the OpenOffice.org suite is concerned.

It might be free to purchase but what about support? I trialled OpenOffice in our company last year.
The resistance was huge from our users. OpenOffice had little niggles like some keys doing different things than they do in Office which turned out to be a pain for users used to Office. I could get around it with macros but why the hell did they do that.
The real killer was that for about 80% of legacy documents it was fine. For the remaining 20% it would reformat stuff like tables or contents which caused us significant problems with some large documents and couldn't be avoided. We ended up just buying the Office licenses.
Maybe we'll try again with V4. I resent having to pay MS about €300 per Office license but if it means that my users can open every work document and not worry ever about formatting then that's a price of business.

Johnmb wrote: »

If people switched, they could still view MS Office documents, but they'd be creating documents using open standards (unless they chose to specifically save it as a MS Office document for some slow to adapt colleague, but a link to OpenOffice.org on the email with the attachment would be much better)

I don't get that. Which do you think is more likely to happen if you send it in OpenOffice format. 1: The receiver sends you the file back and asks for it in a doc format. 2: The receiver trashes the file if it's not majorly important and actually has work to do. 3: The receiver goes to the link for openoffice.org and downloads and installs a new application to open your file.

kippy

Johnmb wrote: »

Cost is free, as far as the OpenOffice.org suite is concerned. As far as PC v Mac is concerned, it depends on what the business is buying. Apple don't make cheap computers, so if that's what the business wants, PC is the only way to go. But if they are buying top of the range computers, Apple can actually be cheaper. At least it was for me when I was pricing the options between Apple and Dell, actually comparing like with like (and that was taking into account the fact that I had to buy a Windows 7 licence and Parallels as well for the Mac option!)

Cost is far from free. If you cant see that then I dont think you reaslise why organisation cant just "change".
Costs could be smaller for small startups alright but even then there are costs involved.

BostonB

TBH the change from Office 2003 to 2007 is massive from a UI point of view alone. As a result (in my experience) a lot of places stuck with 2003.

kippy

BostonB wrote: »

TBH the change from Office 2003 to 2007 is massive from a UI point of view alone. As a result (in my experience) a lot of places stuck with 2003.

Yep - that would be in my experience as well.
Although a lot look to be moving to office 2010 now.

muggyog

OpenOffice had little niggles like some keys doing different things than they do in Office which turned out to be a pain for users used to Office.

Yes learning new stuff is sooooo boring! That docx stuff is so universal too ( try opening in older version of Word ).

The real reason that PCs win over Macs in a business environment is that Apple have given up on this market and have just enable OSX to be compatible with Windows. I would regard the abandoning of the xServe as evidence of this.

Johnmb

mickoneill30 wrote: »

It might be free to purchase but what about support? I trialled OpenOffice in our company last year.
The resistance was huge from our users. OpenOffice had little niggles like some keys doing different things than they do in Office which turned out to be a pain for users used to Office. I could get around it with macros but why the hell did they do that.

Well, there's a large part of your problem. Instead of using macros to get it to look and act like MS Office, tell the users to cop on and use the correct keys! It really isn't that difficult to do... And the same problem can arise if/when simply updating from one version of MS Office to a more up to date version.

The real killer was that for about 80% of legacy documents it was fine. For the remaining 20% it would reformat stuff like tables or contents which caused us significant problems with some large documents and couldn't be avoided.

This is the only real problem. It can take time to reformat everything, especially if you need to print it out (manuals etc.). Well worth doing in the long run though, can save a lot of money doing this vv

We ended up just buying the Office licenses.
Maybe we'll try again with V4. I resent having to pay MS about €300 per Office license but if it means that my users can open every work document and not worry ever about formatting then that's a price of business.

I don't get that. Which do you think is more likely to happen if you send it in OpenOffice format. 1: The receiver sends you the file back and asks for it in a doc format.

He'd be told "no can do, download or live without"

2: The receiver trashes the file if it's not majorly important and actually has work to do.

Not my problem, I only send documents that are requested, so it's his loss not mine.

3: The receiver goes to the link for openoffice.org and downloads and installs a new application to open your file.

If they don't already have a suite capable of opening documents saved in the open standards then this is the only option they have if they want to use the file I sent them (or they could download/buy another suite that is capable, I did my bit by suggesting a free one and providing the link!).

BostonB

Johnmb wrote: »

...
He'd be told "no can do, download or live without"


Not my problem, I only send documents that are requested, so it's his loss not mine.....

Thats not really an attitude a business can take. IMO.

Johnmb

BostonB wrote: »

Thats not really an attitude a business can take. IMO.

Depends on the business.

Odaise Gaelach

The one thing that really turned me off OS X is that a fresh install of Snow Leopard has the firewall turned off by default, with no prompt to say that it was off.

Never again.

kippy

Johnmb wrote: »

Depends on the business.

If it was one that was reliant on customers it wouldnt be a very successful one.


Never mind the actual desktop level practicalities (where retraining is a massive cost whatever way you look at it). Many organisations have Active Directory domains, which are linked in with other numerous in house applications, file and print server permissions and indeed most importantly desktop management and settings config. To change over all of this to another network or even desktop OS would require a hell of a lot more work than most would think.
Back on the desktop level, if you want to us macs you are also looking at a significantly higher hardware cost initially.
Then you've got the issue of who is going to do the work, a lot less *ux heads out there than microsoft heads.
Finally you've got the support costs, due to previous point you'll have a more expensive support service.

Now, if you've a new business and you are starting out fresh then this kinda thing may be a bit easier to implement but my point about cost of people to do the work and training costs would still stand.