Cameron's Plan For No-Fly Zone Over Libya

hmmm

Some of these look like they'd explode in your face, others actually look quite useful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCyRBUAEneM

punchdrunk

BA and Hannibal would be proud...

Cork boy 55

Rebels captured a Libya army Opertional battle plan for a "division in attack" on Misrata



CNN obtained the 15-page document -- titled, in part: "Battle plan to cleanse the city of Misrata from militant gangs" from rebels in the city Sunday. The words "top secret" is written at the top of every page. The name of Gadhafi's son, Khamis Moammar Gadhafi, appears on page 10 as commander of the theater.

The documents says Misrata is to be "attacked from six different directions with 11,350 fighters, 4,000 of whom are organized troops, (the rest volunteers). The six directions cover the east and the south."
The "mission" is stated as: "To destroy mercenary elements and deceive youth in Misrata using nine brigades. ..."

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/06/12/libya.war/index.html?iref=allsearch

BrianD

It seems that the war is now moving to propaganda. Gadaffi is apparently Viagras largest buyer and convenient battle plans are now being found.

Hard to know what's true and false. Only it seems that the "war" isn't really going anywhere.

hmmm

It's interesting that while most focus is on the East and Misrata, it's the rebels in the West who look well equipped and are edging very close to Tripoli itself. If Zawiya is (re)taken, Gadaffi's route to Tunisia is cut off, as is his major refinery. The rebels are about maybe 50k from Zawiya, and Zawiya is also a hotbed of unrest, unlike Sirte and Zliten which are sticking points for rebels elsewhere.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13921665

BrianD

Are all these rebels singing off the same hymn sheet, I wonder?

hmmm

BrianD wrote: »

Are all these rebels singing off the same hymn sheet, I wonder?

Whether there's any sense of a unified rebel military command I'm not sure, probably not. NATO is certainly helping in the West, and there does appear to be some "foreigners" mixed in, so at the very least there is a strategy to apply pressure everywhere and stretch the Gadaffi forces.

I believe the rebels in the West are mostly Berbers, and there was some talk that they would cease fighting once they had taken the entire Nafusa mountains area. This would give them a good defensive position, and from there they would attempt to create an enclave and ultimately a greater Berber nation (taking in bits of other countries).

However, the news reports have shown that they are now advancing across the plains towards Tripoli. They are also clearly flying the rebel (old Libyan) flag and not some Berber nation flag. There is something odd about the fighting in the West as large amounts of armour appears to have been captured or destroyed - beyond the mountains themselves the area looks quite flat which I imagine wouldn't lend itself to ambushes by lightly armed civilians, but they seem to have been doing an amazing job. Don't mess with the Berbers apparently - or else Tunisia has been doing a good job getting Quatari weaponry into the area.

The rebel forces in the far Eastern region are stalled around Brega, which is being bombed once or twice a day by NATO. I have simply no idea why the fighting is stalled there, I suspect because Sirte is in the way which will prevent any sort of large advance anyway. Sirte is unlikely to join the rebel side. If they could clear Sirte the road is open to link up with Misrata - instead, the rebels in Benghazi have been shipping large amounts of material and men to Misrata by sea.

The rebels in Misrata are slowly advancing towards Zliten but are being held back from attacking the city. Apparently there are two ethnic groups involved, and the last thing the rebels want to do is piss off the group in Zliten. The rebels are hoping Zliten rebels by itself, but so far the city is relatively quiet. So, the Misrata "front" is also stalled in terms of an advance on Tripoli.

It isn't clear what will happen should the rebels reach Tripoli. Some neighbourhoods clearly hate Gadaffi, but it isn't clear if the city will quickly collapse or whether it will become a second Misrata. If Gadaffi chooses to run his destination will probably be Sebha in the South where he could make a nuisance of himself to several countries.

hmmm

Big weapons dump captured by Nafusa rebels
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13948984

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDfpNbazfvs

hmmm

Aerial recon image from Misrata

hmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBGRmAhJiy4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prAatUULw

hmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Gt8j2fHDk

Zliten yesterday. Impressive BFG at 2.55 . Lots of Allah Akbars being hurled. One person in the video was firing aimed single shots, but I may have been dreaming that.

Cork boy 55

Where are the frontlines now?

hmmm

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Where are the frontlines now?

Western rebels are closing in on Gharyan, which is described as a "heavily fortified garrison town". NATO were bombing the area today. Gharyan is an important supply route for Gadaffi (perhaps *the* supply route) from the south of Libya. Rebels are about 14k from there.





Misrata rebels have moved about 6k closer to Zliten and are in the "Tuesday market" area, where-ever that is.

It's slow hard progress, and considering the casualties they are taking it's hard to see how the rebels can sustain this.

I think NATO are hoping there will be a sudden collapse of the regime. This is not unlikely considering the supply problems in Tripoli.

Cork boy 55

hmmm wrote: »

Western rebels are closing in on Gharyan, which is described as a "heavily fortified garrison town". NATO were bombing the area today. Gharyan is an important supply route for Gadaffi (perhaps *the* supply route) from the south of Libya. Rebels are about 14k from there.





Misrata rebels have moved about 6k closer to Zliten and are in the "Tuesday market" area, where-ever that is.

It's slow hard progress, and considering the casualties they are taking it's hard to see how the rebels can sustain this.

I think NATO are hoping there will be a sudden collapse of the regime. This is not unlikely considering the supply problems in Tripoli.

Ta




says on rte that gaddafi is in Sabha in central libya.

.

Muammar Gaddafi has threatened to send hundreds of Libyans to launch attacks in Europe in revenge for the NATO-led military campaign against him.
The Libyan leader said in a televised speech that 'hundreds of Libyans will martyr in Europe. I told you it is eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. But we will give them a chance to come back to their senses.'
Gaddafi, whose forces have been battling rebel fighters increasingly encroaching on his territory and NATO warplanes, was speaking in the desert town of Sabha, about 800 km (500 miles) south of Tripoli.
He continued 'you will regret it, NATO, when the war moves to Europe,' adding that the Canary Islands, Sicily, other Mediterranean islands as well as Andalusia in southern Spain were Arab lands that should be liberated

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0708/libya.html

hmmm

From yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egbx0Iqq984

This is a propaganda video, but the interesting bit is the training at about 1.55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbgHj2sK8o

hmmm

Good piece
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/reporters-notebook-reading-the-rebels-in-western-libya-pt-i/?smid=tw-nytimesatwar&seid=auto

hmmm

This is supposed to be video of a NATO hit on an ammo bunker in Gharyan. If the cheering is representative of the population, it could make things easier for the rebels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjYaTQlaKds

hmmm

Looks like the attack on Brega has finally started... If this doesn't succeed the rebels will probably have little choice but to sue for peace.

Night time attack, 30k front, Apaches and ships helping, rebels seem to have dragged up some ancient tanks to assist.

Cork boy 55

hmmm wrote: »

Looks like the attack on Brega has finally started... If this doesn't succeed the rebels will probably have little choice but to sue for peace.

Night time attack, 30k front, Apaches and ships helping, rebels seem to have dragged up some ancient tanks to assist.

you got a link for this? not muc in media just the gaddafi spokemans saying they beat back the attack.

Why are Tunsia and Egypt sitting on side lines golden op for them to get some cheap oil credits in return for help.

hmmm

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

you got a link for this? not muc in media just the gaddafi spokemans saying they beat back the attack.

Why are Tunsia and Egypt sitting on side lines golden op for them to get some cheap oil credits in return for help.

Tunisia and Egypt don't know who's going to win, so they'll probably hang back until something is definite

As for Brega, no-one seems to know. The rebels are still attacking, and it sounds like they are taking a lot of casualties (with lots of nasty mine related injuries). It sounds like the bulk of Gadaffi's force has successfully retreated to the West, with some clearing operations in Brega proper.

Rebels outside Brega - note the nice identification panels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CK9Ops95rA

Demining

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ_lTYOBSLg

Supposed to be fighting in Brega

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdG5M9YkPXQ

Incoming and outgoing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbgC-bMrQNo

hmmm

Le Figaro are reporting that Brega has been largely taken, with some Gadaffi forces still holding out. Most of the fighting has now shifted down the road towards Bishr & Ras Lanouf.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2011/07/18/97001-20110718FILWWW00327-libye-les-rebelles-ont-pris-brega.php

Gadaffi's regime is saying they killed 500 rebels and still control Brega.

Most of the Rebel casualties appear to have been caused by mines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKUcNd2DH7s

The rebels in the Western mountains built an airstrip, and this video is the first landing of supplies from Benghazi. Who builds an airstrip next to a row of electricity pylons?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kV7JBKlYgA

Rebel towed artillery, first time I've seen this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JijvbzDVUEQ

Donny5

hmmm wrote: »

Who builds an airstrip next to a row of electricity pylons?

Well, it's a road. A road with pylons next to it. A road with pylons next to it repurposed as an airstrip.

Cork boy 55

hmmm wrote: »

The rebels in the Western mountains built an airstrip, and this video is the first landing of supplies from Benghazi. Who builds an airstrip next to a row of electricity pylons?

In many countries sections of motorways
are designated as emergency runways for both civil and military purposes

It's quite possible that this stretch of road was designated and designed in peacetime as a runway in the event of war or emergency landing.

Theres a list of these motorways somewhere.

for example tawian
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13048131

hmmm

A good update on the Brega situation.

https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=149767021764849

hmmm

Some more
- Sebha, little discussed http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904233404576458154035344420.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

- Western Mountains http://www.heraldonline.com/2011/07/20/3233947/for-libyas-western-rebels-high.html

- Debka, have been surprisingly reliable on Libya previously http://debka.com/article/21122/

- The Italians have managed to "lose" enough weapons to equip, oh say, a small rebel army http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/19/italy-blocks-investigation-arms-cache

hmmm

Rebels have taken areas close to Bani Walid which is important for choking Ghadaffi's southern supply route.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1864396889235

An SA-6 was pictured in Tripoli recently so NATO still has some work to do.


Someone in trouble at 2.05, this is outside Zliten

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyzeeB5CWd0

This is a plane landing at the road runway in the videos on previous posts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mZu7e5D3M

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

An SA-6 was pictured in Tripoli recently so NATO still has some work to do.

Correction, two. You'll see the missile of a second launcher peeking out behind the first.

Teclo

hmmm wrote: »

Rebels have taken areas close to Bani Walid which is important for choking Ghadaffi's southern supply route.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1864396889235

An SA-6 was pictured in Tripoli recently so NATO still has some work to do.

These launchers are not much use if the radar has already being successfully targeted.

hmmm

Teclo wrote: »

These launchers are not much use if the radar has already being successfully targeted.

Perhaps, although that military site called Wikipedia suggests that the missiles themselves are also fitted with radar seekers. Certainly I wouldn't like to be flying an attack helicopter or low flying jet anywhere near them.

I was trying to work out from the photographs whether they were fakes, I believe the Serbs produced some excellent wooden tanks during the Kosovo bombings. They look quite real to me however.

hmmm

Well now this is all very interesting. Abdul Fatah Younis, who was the rebel's main military commander, has been alternatively described as killed or arrested since this morning. Most reports are that he has been arrested. He commands several thousand men in the Brega area, so things are about to get interesting in Benghazi.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/28/libya-rebels-idUSLDE76R1ND20110728

The Western Rebels launched a major offensive to take a large chunk of the Tunisian border and relieve pressure on Nalut which is being regularly shelled. This appears to have been successful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RGaeeXeyJQ

Ramadan is coming and with it an expected decrease in the pace of fighting (not least because of fasting).