The Rise and Rise of Sinn Fein

danger man

still the same mudslingers on this thread,would yous ever go and jump,
sinn fein have done very well and im very happy for them ,seems ff voters jumped to fg.,wonder were they will jump next..sinn fein? time will tell.


a must see vid on were sinn fein wants to go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mcEOnnI2Wo

kryogen

I was brought up a sinn fein supporter, and share many of their views, but they simply do not have a credible programme for government. this is an inescapable fact

I couldnt vote for them based on this

Hasschu

takun wrote: »

What?

By that I mean that Martin Ferris appeal transcends politics and supporters of the natural governing party (FF) hold their nose as they vote for the man in spite of his party (SF). I know this for fact, if he ran with any other party he would top the polls instead of being number 3 in a 3 seater.

Maj Malfunction

Sinn Fein... In for one election gone the next, ask the Greens, they'll tell it to you straight without having to point a gun at your head.

d'Oracle

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

Sinn Fein... In for one election gone the next, ask the Greens, they'll tell it to you straight without having to point a gun at your head.

Cept the greens did unusually well in one election and then got into government in the next one.

Then collapsed due to their term in government.


So basically, your point is broken.

th3 s1aught3r

Lucky for SF they never went into government with FF as that is the worst any small party can do, just ask the Greens or PD's

wolfpawnat

I would do almost anything to have a thread on SF that was about the party and not what they were once allied to.

I mean honestly, no one mentions that our new government party were linked to Fascists, or that FF were the cause of the civil war. Are people that incapable of an adult conversation?

paul71

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I would do almost anything to have a thread on SF that was about the party and not what they were once allied to.

I mean honestly, no one mentions that our new government party were linked to Fascists, or that FF were the cause of the civil war. Are people that incapable of an adult conversation?

Well, at least I can say I am trying, could you have a look back at my last post wolfpawnat, and see what you think about questions I raised re SF longterm position.

d'Oracle

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I would do almost anything to have a thread on SF that was about the party and not what they were once allied to.

I mean honestly, no one mentions that our new government party were linked to Fascists, or that FF were the cause of the civil war. Are people that incapable of an adult conversation?

We are talking nearly 100 years ago compared to 30-40 years ago.
Nobody in FF or FG now can be accused of being involved with starting the Civil War or associating with fascists.
People Currently in SF have been accused and associated with the actions of the provos. They have been seen publicly fraternising with convicted terrorists.

You comparison does not work.

De Dannan

d'Oracle wrote: »

People Currently in SF have been accused and associated with the actions of the provos. They have been seen publicly fraternising with convicted terrorists.
.

They have embraced democracy now so I think they should be allowed to move forward forget about the past, as bad as it undoubtedly was

I thought it was a disgrace how Micheal Martin attacked Adams on live TV about his dishonesty given the government that Martin was a part of talking about honesty ... please

wolfpawnat

paul71 wrote: »

If in event of a united Ireland in 30 years how do you see working class unionists alining themselves?

On a political, I would assume they would have a party of their own to be honest, some would probable join parties that are already established here, and I could see a few Unionist groups remaining too.

I could not see the SDLP becoming a nationwide party, but surviving justas well in the North.

paul71 wrote: »

I think centre right unionists would probably retain a separate party but ally themselves to FG quite easily, but on the other side the left has a 3 way split as opposed to 2 way. Or you think Sinn Fein and Loyalist working class can work together. (not trolling honest question)

FG is not a nationalist party, so yes I could see many of the Unionists associating with them, if anything I would see them becoming the largest party in Ireland then!

I can not see a way the loyalist working class would join with SF, as much as we give out about the Troubles down here, in the North, they were scarred by the lives their families had on both sides of the divide! But I could see the parties up there being in the Dáil all at once.

d'Oracle wrote: »

We are talking nearly 100 years ago compared to 30-40 years ago.
Nobody in FF or FG now can be accused of being involved with starting the Civil War or associating with fascists.
People Currently in SF have been accused and associated with the actions of the provos. They have been seen publicly fraternising with convicted terrorists.

You comparison does not work.

DeV was not branded a criminal when he entered the Dáil for the whole war of Independence thing, nor were others.

We need to embrace those who have left violence, not make them think that the only way forward is to remain at it.It didn't work with Thatcher. If Ireland is to be seen as a forward thinking country, we cannot be seen to keep looking to the past!

d'Oracle

De Dannan wrote: »

They have embraced democracy now

Is this supposed to be an achievement?

Ah aren't you great lads, you gave up killing folks, have a go at running the country.
If people at one stage in their lives condoned and involved themselves with the killing of innocent civilians they lack the moral authority or standards to embrace democracy.

LordSutch

De Dannan wrote: »

I thought it was a disgrace how Micheal Martin attacked Adams on live TV about his dishonesty given the government that Martin was a part of talking about honesty ... please

But can you remember what Adams said, that provoked Micheal Martin's response?

paul71

wolfpawnat wrote: »

On a political, I would assume they would have a party of their own to be honest, some would probable join parties that are already established here, and I could see a few Unionist groups remaining too.

I could not see the SDLP becoming a nationwide party, but surviving justas well in the North.



FG is not a nationalist party, so yes I could see many of the Unionists associating with them, if anything I would see them becoming the largest party in Ireland then!

I can not see a way the loyalist working class would join with SF, as much as we give out about the Troubles down here, in the North, they were scarred by the lives their families had on both sides of the divide! But I could see the parties up there being in the Dáil all at once.

I agree with a lot of that, except for one thing, I think SDLP would slip straight into labour.

You are right about FG not being a nationalist party, but most of its voters are nationalist, however as not having esposed a nationalist opinion other than unionist consent they will fit well with a centre right unionist party.

The point though is how can SF aspire to government in a united Ireland if

1. They don't merge with a working class unionist party.

or

2. Soften their left policies and take the ground occuppied by Labour and/or the Left elements of FF.

wolfpawnat

d'Oracle wrote: »

Is this supposed to be an achievement?

Ah aren't you great lads, you gave up killing folks, have a go at running the country.
If people at one stage in their lives condoned and involved themselves with the killing of innocent civilians they lack the moral authority or standards to embrace democracy.

So what are we supposed to do, by not bringing them to the table you are telling people to continue with the past! Meaning more deaths, that'll help!:rolleyes:

wolfpawnat

paul71 wrote: »

I agree with a lot of that, except for one thing, I think SDLP would slip straight into labour.

You are right there! They would, I did not think of that sort of emergence!

paul71 wrote: »

You are right about FG not being a nationalist party, but most of its voters are nationalist, however as not having esposed a nationalist opinion other than unionist consent they will fit well with a centre right unionist party.

FG have never pretended to even be nationalistic, so any and all unionist parties with the same ideals would do well with them

paul71 wrote: »

The point though is how can SF aspire to government in a united Ireland if

1. They don't merge with a working class unionist party.

or

2. Soften their left policies and take the ground occuppied by Labour and/or the Left elements of FF.

I think for a united Ireland they would merge, but I cannot see a Unionist party being too happy. They will never be Ireland's biggest party and I think they, themselves know that!

I think they would soften honestly. If they are serious about building from their gains in this election they will have no choice. With the near abolishment of FF, there is room for a left wing party, but they cannot stay as left as they are now.

paul71

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I think for a united Ireland they would merge, but I cannot see a Unionist party being too happy. They will never be Ireland's biggest party and I think they, themselves know that!

I think they would soften honestly. If they are serious about building from their gains in this election they will have no choice. With the near abolishment of FF, there is room for a left wing party, but they cannot stay as left as they are now.

I think we agreed on FF, alot of people are talking about how long they will take to come back, I think they wont.

SF will hoover up their left and republican votes, they haven't had a party structure in Dublin for 30 years, what they had was the personnal mafias of Bertie and Haughey, and the TD age profile is scary, not enough councillers to replace them in next election and because of this election have lost a lot of funding.

I can tell you the points I raised about where SF move after a united Ireland is exactly what SF are positioning themselves for now, they have been thinking about this for a while now. What will be interesting is how Southern based parties react SF have stolen a march on them by moving south, I expect Labour and FG to start putting feelers out in the north in the next 10 years.

th3 s1aught3r

paul71 wrote: »

I think we agreed on FF, alot of people are talking about how long they will take to come back, I think they wont.

SF will hoover up their left and republican votes, they haven't had a party structure in Dublin for 30 years, what they had was the personnal mafias of Bertie and Haughey, and the TD age profile is scary, not enough councillers to replace them in next election and because of this election have lost a lot of funding.

I agree that FF will take a long time to come back, bu I would not say never
Also I think that those who voted FF on the left might have an issue with voting for SF on mass. It will be interesting to see in the next election if SF can appeal to a FF audience

yahoo_moe

Walking home tonight and saw an Aengus Ó Snodaigh victory cavalcade...

Four cars with miniature tricolours on the rooves and poster artwork sprayed on the doors driving through the Liberties. The first was playing "The Spanish Lady" ("Whack fol the toora loora lay", etc.) loudly and all 4 were beeping.

Truly a bizarre moment - "Non-Irish music for none... miniature Irish flags for all!"

flahavaj

Dessie Ellis was a shambles on the Frontline tonight. Several of these new Sinn Fein TD's ned to up their game bigtime now that they're on the national stage. It could have huge bearing on the party's growth - people will soon see through them if performances continue to be this poor.

paul71

flahavaj wrote: »

Dessie Ellis was a shambles on the Frontline tonight. Several of these new Sinn Fein TD's ned to up their game bigtime now that they're on the national stage. It could have huge bearing on the party's growth - people will soon see through them if performances continue to be this poor.

He is not typical of the type being elected, watch out for Tobin from Meath West, very very articulate.

flahavaj

paul71 wrote: »

He is not typical of the type being elected, watch out for Tobin from Meath West, very very articulate.

I should hope not. Dinosaurs like him are a waste of a seat in Dail Eireann.

aDeener

wolfpawnat wrote: »

On a political, I would assume they would have a party of their own to be honest, some would probable join parties that are already established here, and I could see a few Unionist groups remaining too.

I could not see the SDLP becoming a nationwide party, but surviving justas well in the North.



FG is not a nationalist party, so yes I could see many of the Unionists associating with them, if anything I would see them becoming the largest party in Ireland then!

I can not see a way the loyalist working class would join with SF, as much as we give out about the Troubles down here, in the North, they were scarred by the lives their families had on both sides of the divide! But I could see the parties up there being in the Dáil all at once.



DeV was not branded a criminal when he entered the Dáil for the whole war of Independence thing, nor were others.

We need to embrace those who have left violence, not make them think that the only way forward is to remain at it.It didn't work with Thatcher. If Ireland is to be seen as a forward thinking country, we cannot be seen to keep looking to the past!

well that is a cert, it's what happened in the 20's and 30's. the old unionist party disbanded and many of its members who remained in politics joined CnaG and later fine gael

dlofnep

flahavaj wrote: »

I should hope not. Dinosaurs like him are a waste of a seat in Dail Eireann.

Dessie was elected by his constituents - Who are you to say whether or not he is deserving of a seat?

paul71

dlofnep wrote: »

Dessie was elected by his constituents - Who are you to say whether or not he is deserving of a seat?

He is no-one but another voter, we are all entitled to express our opinions on elected candidates be they Dessie, Healey Rea, Wallace, Kenny, Martin, Gilmore or Adams. Expressing that opinion does not change the fact that they were elected but we still have freedom of expression.

I know this board has rules and we are all bound by them, but in this instance I dont see that any of those rules were broken so can't see why the poster has done anything more or less than about 1000 other posts here commenting on the qualities of various elected people from different parties. Unless he has commented on a TD that you have a particular interest in.

danger man

kryogen wrote: »

They will fall away again as things improve imo, as is the case with most parties like them

They have no real policies that make sense economically so until that changes they wcan never be considered a viable candidate for government tbh

They will be ok in opposition I feel as they will be loud and are far better suited to being in opposition where they wont have to put their crack pot policies into practice and be shown up

SF policies do make sense economically. i think they would be following along the lines of what argentina done.
dont bother replying SF bashers who read off the same old government him sheet.this is backed up by top economists all over the world.

Three years after argentina declared a record debt default of more than $100 billion. the apocalypse has not arrived. Instead, the economy has grown by 8 percent for two consecutive years, exports have zoomed, the currency is stable, investors are gradually returning and unemployment has eased from record highs - all without a debt settlement or the standard measures required by the International Monetary Fund for its approval.
Argentina's recovery has been undeniable, and it has been achieved at least in part by ignoring and even defying economic and political orthodoxy. Rather than moving to immediately satisfy bondholders, private banks and the I.M.F., as other developing countries have done in less severe crises, the Peronist-led government chose to stimulate internal consumption first and told creditors to get in line with everyone else.

In fact, after ignoring the IMF and charting its own course, in 2005, Argentina found itself in a position to actually pay off its creditors and is now firmly ensconced as a G-20 member.

all these bailouts of countries, huge insurers, compaines, Wall St. are just a way of funneling taxpayer money to the indebted's creditors.
There no help or even intention to help the indebted party, in fact, the conditions that attach are usually incredibly onerous and lead ot mass human suffering

LordSutch

danger man wrote: »

SF policies do make sense economically. i think they would be following along the lines of what argentina done.

Argentina? could Ireland realistically copy what Argentina have done? surely we are in a totally different place, not just physically, but in all respects, maybe Columbia would be slightly nearer the mark for Sinn Fein to consider? anyway, its all pie in the sky, as Enda, Eamon, and their teams will tackle the debt in a more realistic manner.

steve9859

How do peoe think that SF have done well? They have fewer seats than the party which destroyed the country!! Doesn't sound like a 'rise and rise' to me!

wolfpawnat

steve9859 wrote: »

How do peoe think that SF have done well? They have fewer seats than the party which destroyed the country!! Doesn't sound like a 'rise and rise' to me!

FF had a candidate in each and every constituency, most of whom were well known and well established.

SF did not and a lot of them (my own constituency as an example) are not in any way known and were only selected with 3 weeks to the election.

And to treble your numbers in the Dáil is pretty impressive, especially as the public mostly voted for FG for "change".

LordSutch

flahavaj wrote: »

Dessie Ellis was a shambles on the Frontline tonight. Several of these new Sinn Fein TD's ned to up their game bigtime now that they're on the national stage. It could have huge bearing on the party's growth - people will soon see through them if performances continue to be this poor.

Yes, I saw that, he was appalling, I also heard Mary Lou on the news, soaking up her moment of victory, she was just as bad as she always is, stating the bleedin obvious, & speaking in sound bites, presumably designed for those who have fewer brain cells than the average compliment?

Let me be perfect clerar about this, we in Sinn Fein will hold Fine Gael & Labour to account . . . . . waffle waffle.

Somebody please pass the sick bucket.