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Is Liberalism the new Conservatism for the fool Irish?

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13

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    #62
    AskMyChocolate
    Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    I know a number of conservative Christians who wouldn't dirty their fingers with the tawdry piece of sh1te that is "Alive".
    Indeed, I've often wondered, whether or not it isn't published by a rabid secularist with a dark sense of humour.


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    #63
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    Yes Op I get ye and I agree. Some people I`ve encountered are just a barometer for public opinion. They would have been the very ones kissin the priests as$ and shouting for girls to be sent to laundries 50 years ago.

    You can`t fight human nature - just look at the greed, sloth and envy of the last few years I will take bets now I`ll see a similar episode in my lifetime. We will only see change when we become aware, unashamed and analytical of our subconscious -never happening doesn`t suit the agendas of humans.

    Not that I`m on the side of organised religion, its only a devisive tool but I respect your right to choose as long as your not excluding or hating anyone else.


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    #64
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Lol at the people who thanked the OP - although maybe they're being sarcastic...


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    #65
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    RMD wrote: »
    Well, you're hardly open to change and reform? Well guess what, you're conservative then as you sound the opposite of a liberal person, it's kinda in the name you know?

    And I'm a retard just because I support equal rights for pretty much everyone? Damn, didn't know I was handicapped, must get that checked out.

    Ok you support equal rights for everybody, that simple eh? How about polygamous marriages, or marrying underage minors. Culture makes the rules and the OP has a valid point.

    In Ireland it is true that there being 'right-wing' is often confounded with 'bad person', incredible but true.

    Look at Vincent Browne, he always starts from a socialist perspective but there is no commentator on the airwaves that starts from a conservative or right-wing perspective. If there was there would be a big hullaballoo in the media...


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    #66
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Dudess wrote: »
    "In my opinion this", "in my opinion that" - it's either a fact or it isn't a fact, opinion has nothing to do with it.
    Why do you care so much about what political ideology something is attached to, OP? I know it's a scary thought, but why not just be of whatever view you believe is right rather than ensuring it's conservative all the time and in opposition to "liberal"?
    Oh and people actually believe these things, they're not trying to be cool. Just because that's your "opinion" doesn't make it correct. Ditto your awesomely stupid and unsubstantiated views on gay people.
    And yeah, Alive! deserved all the hate and abuse, because it is a hateful, abusive, vile publication. If it were an equally hate-filled muslim publication, the reaction would be the same (ok, admittedly you'd get the odd annoying "It's their culture" protest, but they'd only be in a very small minority).
    You also clearly think you're better than others so you know... stones, glasshouses...

    Get away from the Alive thing and his own personal views for a second, he has a point underneath all of this. There is not enough diversity of viewpoints in Ireland as can clearly be seen by the election today. Pretty much all centre and left of centre parties.


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    #67
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    I love the whole "gays are un-natural" argument.

    Humans are part of the natural world. We're animals, we're not divine, we're not special.

    There's your homosexuality occuring in nature, morons.

    Yeah all sorts of things are common in nature, which one do you choose is natural for humans?
    Animals can rip each other apart, eat other animals alive, fight to the death for mating rights, procreate but not look after their progeny. Which one to choose, morons?

    You see you are using words here that wouldn't be justified against another target, but they are an easy target as they hold a MINORITY viewpoint.


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    #68
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Dudess wrote: »
    Lol at the people who thanked the OP - although maybe they're being sarcastic...

    LOL at you for your arrogance.


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    #69
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Dudess wrote: »
    Lol at the people who thanked the OP - although maybe they're being sarcastic...

    Maybe they thanked it because they find the thread to be as hilarious as I do.
    maninasia wrote: »
    LOL at you for your arrogance.

    Or maybe not.


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    #70
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Funniest thread in AH for a while now.

    A super conservative, anti-gay rights poster accuses the whole country of being retarded, weak minded, faux-libertarians, then stands back & wonders why he's getting shot down.

    You couldn't make this shit up.

    Long live After Hours!


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    #71
    mloc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    I think a lot of the posts in this thread highlight the confusion in Ireland surrounding political positions; i.e. between social conservatism and right-wing economics.

    Personally, while I'd cut dole massively, reduce minimum wage and reduce taxes, I'd also be in favour of same-sex marriage, abortion in certain cases and drug decriminalization.


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    #72
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    mloc wrote: »
    I think a lot of the posts in this thread highlight the confusion in Ireland surrounding political positions; i.e. between social conservatism and right-wing economics.


    I don't think there's any confusion. I think people purposely choose to ignore anything which doesn't fall into the traditional categories of what they see as "pinko liberals" and "conservative right wingers".

    I can only presume that it makes life easier for them to do so.


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    #73
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    I don't think there's any confusion. I think people purposely choose to ignore anything which doesn't fall into the traditional categories of what they see as "pinko liberals" and "conservative right wingers".

    I can only presume that it makes life easier for them to do so.
    You would say that, you Nazi! :P


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    #74
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    ScumLord wrote: »
    How can it be unnatural when two natural animals (humans) do it. Humans are part of nature making anything they do natural.
    Understand that "unnatural" is an ill-defined and largely arbitrary term that's used as a wildcard to condemn any given activity one may agree with.

    Gheyness = unnatural
    Using a programmable machine to condemn said gheyness through a complex system of interconnected networks = totally natural.


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    #75
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    SuperInfinity wrote: »
    I'm against a homosexual couple raising a child, because it's not something that's natural. It's not something that's seen in nature.
    I presume you typed that message via some manner of organic, natural computer?
    SuperInfinity wrote: »
    I believe that homosexuality is a flaw.
    I believe that wilful stupidity is a flaw. Homosexuality occurs in humans - therefore it is natural. Do you have any evidence at all that it is not? Or does providing evidence for claims violate your conservative principles?
    SuperInfinity wrote: »
    I'm flawed also in many ways, I don't go around pretending that I'm not flawed in those ways. And the sooner we start to get honest with ourselves, the better it will be for everyone.
    I think I've spotted one major flaw alright.


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    #76
    Gunsfortoys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭Gunsfortoys


    It seems after hours people are getting easier to bait.:pac:


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    #77
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    maninasia wrote: »
    Yeah all sorts of things are common in nature, which one do you choose is natural for humans?
    Oh, so now we choose what is natural and what is not? How odd. I thought 'natural' was an objective thing. Silly me.
    maninasia wrote: »
    Animals can rip each other apart, eat other animals alive, fight to the death for mating rights, procreate but not look after their progeny. Which one to choose, morons?
    What? I might choose for you to be torn apart by animals, but I've no idea what you are arguing here. Is it natural for humans to tear each other apart? *looks around* Apparently not.
    maninasia wrote: »
    You see you are using words here that wouldn't be justified against another target, but they are an easy target as they hold a MINORITY viewpoint.
    Words like 'morons'?

    It's funny how the backward positions are usually argued by people with a poor command of the language and inability to construct a logical position.


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    #78
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Johro wrote: »
    Yeah but those Dutch are depraved.
    Yup, the only odd thing about that story is that a Dutch researcher paid any attention to it.


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    #79
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    As an aside, is the Christian viewpoint against homosexuality only from the Leviticus verses:

    "18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable"
    and
    "20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads"?

    Because, if you're gay, you don't lie with a man as you would a woman (or woman as you would a man). So the Bible isn't against homosexuality at all. It's against bisexuality, which I totally agree with because it's just being greedy.

    I'll give the Pope a call and tell him to spread the word.


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    #80
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    maninasia wrote: »
    Ok you support equal rights for everybody, that simple eh? How about polygamous marriages, or marrying underage minors.

    Personally, polygamous marriages are fine, if multiple willing adults want to get married like that, then so what, it doesn't matter to me? Marriage of minors is, of course, a non sequitor in discusions like this, as the "equal rights for all" ideology is almost always predicated on the ability of the citizen to make informed decisions, which minors cannot. But why let accuracy get in the way of extremist, eye catching headlines?
    maninasia wrote: »
    There is not enough diversity of viewpoints in Ireland as can clearly be seen by the election today. Pretty much all centre and left of centre parties.

    Why does there need to be diversity of viewpoints? Is there really any need for any more viewpoints than the best one?
    maninasia wrote: »
    Yeah all sorts of things are common in nature, which one do you choose is natural for humans?
    Animals can rip each other apart, eat other animals alive, fight to the death for mating rights, procreate but not look after their progeny. Which one to choose, morons?

    You choose the things that maximise everyone's happiness and minimise their suffering. This is so blatantly obvious, that I'm beginning to think that the people who cannot see this are sociopaths who are unable to see that if two people do something privately, of their own free will, that generally doesn't effect other people, then those other people dont really have any right to force them to stop or call them unnatural as it doesn't effect them.


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    #81
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    maninasia wrote: »
    Ok you support equal rights for everybody, that simple eh? How about polygamous marriages

    Don't see a problem once they all consent.
    or marrying underage minors.

    Children can't enter into legal contracts or give the consent necessary to enter into such a relationship. Really, I'd have thought you'd bring something new to the table rather than those old chestnuts.
    humanji wrote: »
    As an aside, is the Christian viewpoint against homosexuality only from the Leviticus verses

    It shouldn't be. As they oft parrot, the Old Testament only applies to Jews. Except, you know, when you want to justify whatever bigoted position they hold.


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    #82
    BizzyC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    Diagreeing with someon and calling them an idiot because they disagree with you and think you're the idiot?

    Pot, kettle.....


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    #83
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    BizzyC wrote: »
    Diagreeing with someon and calling them an idiot because they disagree with you and think you're the idiot?

    Pot, kettle.....
    What's really hypocritical is disagreeing with someone and calling them an idiot because they disagree with you calling them an idiot for calling you an idiot for calling them an idiot, IMO.


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    #84
    mloc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    Stop.


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    #85
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Hammer time!


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    #86
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Babel Time! Can't touch this.


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    #87
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    *does the running man*


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    #88
    BizzyC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    What's really hypocritical is disagreeing with someone and calling them an idiot because they disagree with you calling them an idiot for calling you an idiot for calling them an idiot, IMO.

    ...I think we need to go deeper...


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    #89
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    maninasia wrote: »
    Ok you support equal rights for everybody, that simple eh? How about polygamous marriages, or marrying underage minors. Culture makes the rules and the OP has a valid point.
    Men marrying men, women marrying women doesn't harm anyone, so you're not comparing like with like (well in the case of underage minors, certainly), polygamy - once all parties are ok with it, meh. "Because it's different to what I'm used to" isn't a valid reason for no change tbh... Thought you thought Ireland was a load of backward sh1te anyway so why would you care about its culture?
    maninasia wrote: »
    LOL at you for your arrogance.
    Because you disagree with me? The OP posted a load of unsubstantiated sh1te - yes, lol at people who thanked him. I see one of the thankers is a person who always seems to have a left-wing stance so I presume the thanks is a joke on their part, although there does seem to be a bit of a rise in an attention-seeking "Yes, I'm very liberal, but I'm so open-minded I'll even be tolerant of bigoted sh1te" trend...


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    #90
    Caoimhín
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    Everybody calm down. It is a lovely day outside, so go for a walk and just relax.


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    #91
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    maninasia wrote: »
    Yeah all sorts of things are common in nature, which one do you choose is natural for humans?
    Animals can rip each other apart, eat other animals alive, fight to the death for mating rights, procreate but not look after their progeny.
    Animals of the same species don't really fight to the death, it's considered to be a survival of the species thing, you don't kill your own. Most fights are won and lost either with no physical contact or with minor injuries.

    All animals look after their young sufficiently. They take on different reproduction tactics but often do their best for their offspring. Just because they don't spend as much time as us (although some do) raising their offspring doesn't make them worse at it than us.

    We don't choose our behaviour.


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