Is Liberalism the new Conservatism for the fool Irish?

SuperInfinity

I remember a while ago a person here made a topic about the paper Alive!

And the abuse, hatred, and vile comments made against that newspaper, for no reason, were something rotten. The moderators didn't only not do anything about it, they actually encouraged it or were involved in it.

IMO, the idiot Irish (most Irish, I am Irish but I'm talking in general) have come full circle. It was the parents and grandparents of the idiot liberalized fools in Ireland now who were the ones who were MOST under the foot of the Catholic Church in Ireland. And now you hate them so much because you have such issues, you think you're "above" them.

One severely mentally impaired individual even said something about how the people who read Alive! should all be killed. I found that extremely insulting, because my dad used to be a "casual" Catholic who sometimes read that paper. I am an atheist myself, but I just find it so sickening that these people who are such idiots are of such low self-esteem that they feel the need to take it out on others.

If it were a Muslim paper talking about Muslim activities and someone made a topic about it here, would you have people shouting vile insults at it? No, you'd be banned, and probably a complaint made to the gardai if someone said something about the people who read it should be shot.

And really, Ireland was stupidly conservative years ago. Now it's become the exact opposite, people think that if you're against immigration you must be some conservative fool. They seem to think if you're against homosexual marriage (which I am), you must be some conservative nitwit when it is they themselves who are retarded.

So IMO Irish people are in general extremely weak-minded idiots who know nothing and just go along with whatever is the "cool" thing to do in the day.

Snakeblood

Calling people retarded for disagreeing with you without backing up what you are saying is pretty ret. Wait.

RMD

SuperInfinity wrote: »

They seem to think if you're against homosexual marriage (which I am), you must be some conservative nitwit when it is they themselves who are retarded.

Well, you're hardly open to change and reform? Well guess what, you're conservative then as you sound the opposite of a liberal person, it's kinda in the name you know?

And I'm a retard just because I support equal rights for pretty much everyone? Damn, didn't know I was handicapped, must get that checked out.

Pauleta

I blame the far-left loons.

RichieC

You watch fair city, your opinion is invalid.

SuperInfinity

RMD wrote: »

Well, you're hardly open to change and reform? Well guess what, you're conservative then as you don't sound the opposite of a liberal person, it's kinda in the name you know?

And I'm a retard just because I support equal rights for pretty much everyone? Damn, didn't know I was handicapped, must get that checked out.

I never said that, I said the people who consider themselves "superior" to other people who are against such things.

Older conservative people for example. The younger liberalized people have no respect for them, consider them stupid, even many politicians do.

They are all completely for ruining our foods bringing GM foods into the country, and they dont know anything themselves. They trust what the people in Brussels say, they trust the bankers and the "scientists" who say it's all okay and make stupid amounts of money from it.

I'm against a homosexual couple raising a child, because it's not something that's natural. It's not something that's seen in nature. I believe that homosexuality is a flaw.

I'm flawed also in many ways, I don't go around pretending that I'm not flawed in those ways. And the sooner we start to get honest with ourselves, the better it will be for everyone.

losthorizon

If you go along with whats cool you are not liberal you are conservative. You are mixing the two terms up op

Snakeblood

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I'm against a homosexual couple raising a child, because it's not something that's natural. It's not something that's seen in nature. I believe that homosexuality is a flaw.

Luckily, it is seen in nature, so you're completely wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK4urY7niL8

RichieC

It is outrageous to say Alive! readers should be killed when simply removing their right to vote would suffice.

Logical Fallacy

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I remember a while ago a person here made a topic about the paper Alive!

And the abuse, hatred, and vile comments made against that newspaper, for no reason, were something rotten. The moderators didn't only not do anything about it, they actually encouraged it or were involved in it.

IMO, the idiot Irish (most Irish, I am Irish but I'm talking in general) have come full circle. It was the parents and grandparents of the idiot liberalized fools in Ireland now who were the ones who were MOST under the foot of the Catholic Church in Ireland. And now you hate them so much because you have such issues, you think you're "above" them.

One severely mentally impaired individual even said something about how the people who read Alive! should all be killed. I found that extremely insulting, because my dad used to be a "casual" Catholic who sometimes read that paper. I am an atheist myself, but I just find it so sickening that these people who are such idiots are of such low self-esteem that they feel the need to take it out on others.

If it were a Muslim paper talking about Muslim activities and someone made a topic about it here, would you have people shouting vile insults at it? No, you'd be banned, and probably a complaint made to the gardai if someone said something about the people who read it should be shot.

And really, Ireland was stupidly conservative years ago. Now it's become the exact opposite, people think that if you're against immigration you must be some conservative fool. They seem to think if you're against homosexual marriage (which I am), you must be some conservative nitwit when it is they themselves who are retarded.

So IMO Irish people are in general extremely weak-minded idiots who know nothing and just go along with whatever is the "cool" thing to do in the day.

Well done, another thread from Irish person hating on Irish people.

The whole thing is just far too ironic to go any further.

gargleblaster

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I'm against a homosexual couple raising a child, because it's not something that's natural. It's not something that's seen in nature.

:pac:

do a little reading, you're way off the mark there.

Caoimhín

SuperInfinity wrote: »

One severely mentally impaired individual even said something about how the people who read Alive! should all be killed. I found that extremely insulting, because my dad used to be a "casual" Catholic who sometimes read that paper. I am an atheist myself, but I just find it so sickening that these people who are such idiots are of such low self-esteem that they feel the need to take it out on others.


And really, Ireland was stupidly conservative years ago. Now it's become the exact opposite, people think that if you're against immigration you must be some conservative fool. They seem to think if you're against homosexual marriage (which I am), you must be some conservative nitwit when it is they themselves who are retarded.

So IMO Irish people are in general extremely weak-minded idiots who know nothing and just go along with whatever is the "cool" thing to do in the da.

You didnt think that through really, did you?

Sanjuro

Good lord. The level of arrogance seeping out of the OP is quite astonishing.

Blackhorse Slim

SuperInfinity wrote: »

And really, Ireland was stupidly conservative years ago. Now it's become the exact opposite

Intelligently liberal?

I blame the PC brigade. It's always the PC brigade.

Snakeblood

Deleted User wrote: »

I blame the PC brigade. It's always the PC brigade.

If there's one thing I can't stand it's tolerance and understanding.

...

Two things then.:mad:

SuperInfinity

gargleblaster wrote: »

:pac:

do a little reading, you're way off the mark there.

I am not.

Almost all of these so-called "homosexual" animals are actually bisexual, they like both males and females. This is vastly different to the mythical exclusively homosexual animals.

Animals that were exclusively homosexuals would not make evolutionary sense. I heard of one single case of "homosexual penguins".... this is probably because they had made some mistake or maybe their hormones weren't right (possibly due to human activity).

Humans are like this because of an unnatural and artificial environment. Males nowadays are known to be very at risk to being exposed to unnaturally large amounts of female hormones while in the womb and very young... this is a scientific fact.

HavingCrack

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I'm against a homosexual couple raising a child, because it's not something that's natural. It's not something that's seen in nature. I believe that homosexuality is a flaw.

I'm flawed also in many ways, I don't go around pretending that I'm not flawed in those ways. And the sooner we start to get honest with ourselves, the better it will be for everyone.

Firstly, you have some groundbreaking scientific research to hand to back this claim up I presume.

Secondly, you clearly haven't a clue what liberalism is. You seem to think it's some sort of social democracy.

dilbert2

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I remember a while ago a person here made a topic about the paper Alive!

And the abuse, hatred, and vile comments made against that newspaper, for no reason, were something rotten. The moderators didn't only not do anything about it, they actually encouraged it or were involved in it.

IMO, the idiot Irish (most Irish, I am Irish but I'm talking in general) have come full circle. It was the parents and grandparents of the idiot liberalized fools in Ireland now who were the ones who were MOST under the foot of the Catholic Church in Ireland. And now you hate them so much because you have such issues, you think you're "above" them.

One severely mentally impaired individual even said something about how the people who read Alive! should all be killed. I found that extremely insulting, because my dad used to be a "casual" Catholic who sometimes read that paper. I am an atheist myself, but I just find it so sickening that these people who are such idiots are of such low self-esteem that they feel the need to take it out on others.

If it were a Muslim paper talking about Muslim activities and someone made a topic about it here, would you have people shouting vile insults at it? No, you'd be banned, and probably a complaint made to the gardai if someone said something about the people who read it should be shot.

And really, Ireland was stupidly conservative years ago. Now it's become the exact opposite, people think that if you're against immigration you must be some conservative fool. They seem to think if you're against homosexual marriage (which I am), you must be some conservative nitwit when it is they themselves who are retarded.

So IMO Irish people are in general extremely weak-minded idiots who know nothing and just go along with whatever is the "cool" thing to do in the day.

That's a bit much don't you think - so if you take a critical look at something like the Alive! magazine which is shoved into half of Dublin's letter boxes on a monthly basis, you're a "liberal idiot".

Alive! is ok of course, providing you aren't (a) gay, (b) non-catholic, (c) a single mother, (d) premarital sex enjoyer, (e) a Labour supporter, (f) non-religious, and god knows what else. To be honest, why an atheist should criticise a thread taking a critical look at what is in effect a bigoted and borderline lunatic rag which also pukes out bile about supposedly "evil atheists" is beyond me.

Fremen

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I'm against a homosexual couple raising a child, because it's not something that's natural. It's not something that's seen in nature. I believe that homosexuality is a flaw.

I'm flawed also in many ways, I don't go around pretending that I'm not flawed in those ways. And the sooner we start to get honest with ourselves, the better it will be for everyone.

Ah. Aha-ha. ha. Ah.

Do you think it's natural to eat cooked meat every day? To wear clothes? To be childless until your thirties? To undergo surgery? To adopt someone else's child?

Our default method of child rearing is cultural, not natural. Look up kibbutzim.

HavingCrack

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Humans are like this because of an unnatural and artificial environment. Males nowadays are known to be very at risk to being exposed to unnaturally large amounts of female hormones while in the womb and very young... this is a scientific fact.

Homosexuality has always been prevalent in human societies...it isn't something new. Females are also capable of being homosexual, it isn't just limited to men.

Snakeblood

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I am not.

Almost all of these so-called "homosexual" animals are actually bisexual, they like both males and females. This is vastly different to the mythical exclusively homosexual animals.

Animals that were exclusively homosexuals would not make evolutionary sense. I heard of one single case of "homosexual penguins".... this is probably because they had made some mistake or maybe their hormones weren't right (possibly due to human activity).

Humans are like this because of an unnatural and artificial environment. Males nowadays are known to be very at risk to being exposed to unnaturally large amounts of female hormones while in the womb and very young... this is a scientific fact.

Can you back up this scientific fact?

gargleblaster

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I am not.

Almost all of these so-called "homosexual" animals are actually bisexual, they like both males and females. This is vastly different to the mythical exclusively homosexual animals.

Animals that were exclusively homosexuals would not make evolutionary sense. I heard of one single case of "homosexual penguins".... this is probably because they had made some mistake or maybe their hormones weren't right (possibly due to human activity).

Humans are like this because of an unnatural and artificial environment. Males nowadays are known to be very at risk to being exposed to unnaturally large amounts of female hormones while in the womb and very young... this is a scientific fact.

:pac: "almost all" of them, eh?

citation pls?

losthorizon

HavingCrack wrote: »

Homosexuality has always been prevalent in human societies...it isn't something new. Females are also capable of being homosexual, it isn't just limited to men.

It was rife in Sparta and Ancient Greece.

Snakeblood

HavingCrack wrote: »

Homosexuality has always been prevalent in human societies...it isn't something new. Females are also capable of being homosexual, it isn't just limited to men.

Those ancient Greeks experimenting with their hormones. DISGUSTING.

RichieC

HavingCrack wrote: »

Homosexuality has always been prevalent in human societies...it isn't something new. Females are also capable of being homosexual, it isn't just limited to men.

wrong, it was invented in the 60's and went mainstream in the 70's.

i read it on the intertube.

Snakeblood

RichieC wrote: »

wrong, it was invented in the 60's and went mainstream in the 70's.

i read it on the intertube.

I saw some videos on it. Well dirty it was in the seventies.

mloc

Snakeblood wrote: »

Can you back up this scientific fact?

OP already ragged on scientists, I wouldn't hold out for that.

I don't really see what the point of the original post was. You don't like people giving out about Alive. I've read it a few times; it was part of my religion class in school (a state funded school). Far-right extreme religious bigotry used as teaching material in a classroom? A disgrace. And this was in the 90s. But I digress...

Social contexts change.

HavingCrack

RichieC wrote: »

wrong, it was invented in the 60's and went mainstream in the 70's.

i read it on the intertube.

Snakeblood wrote: »

I saw some videos on it. Well dirty it was in the seventies.

Bull****....it only began in 1986.....:P

Badgermonkey

SuperInfinity wrote: »

So IMO Irish people are in general extremely weak-minded idiots who know nothing and just go along with whatever is the "cool" thing to do in the day.

You however are different.

You've gone rogue.

You're a deep thinker, unaffected by prevailing trends which serve only to replace religion with a secular devotion to a jumble of nonsensical laws which defy the natural order, promote mad science & encourage amoral governance.

Fremen

HavingCrack wrote: »

Bull****....it only began in 1986.....:P

Born in 1986, were you?

Ya dirty rascal.

Dudess

"In my opinion this", "in my opinion that" - it's either a fact or it isn't a fact, opinion has nothing to do with it.
Why do you care so much about what political ideology something is attached to, OP? I know it's a scary thought, but why not just be of whatever view you believe is right rather than ensuring it's conservative all the time and in opposition to "liberal"?
Oh and people actually believe these things, they're not trying to be cool. Just because that's your "opinion" doesn't make it correct. Ditto your awesomely stupid and unsubstantiated views on gay people.
And yeah, Alive! deserved all the hate and abuse, because it is a hateful, abusive, vile publication. If it were an equally hate-filled muslim publication, the reaction would be the same (ok, admittedly you'd get the odd annoying "It's their culture" protest, but they'd only be in a very small minority).
You also clearly think you're better than others so you know... stones, glasshouses...

Teddy_Picker

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I remember a while ago a person here made a topic about the paper Alive!

And the abuse, hatred, and vile comments made against that newspaper, for no reason, were something rotten. The moderators didn't only not do anything about it, they actually encouraged it or were involved in it.

IMO, the idiot Irish (most Irish, I am Irish but I'm talking in general) have come full circle. It was the parents and grandparents of the idiot liberalized fools in Ireland now who were the ones who were MOST under the foot of the Catholic Church in Ireland. And now you hate them so much because you have such issues, you think you're "above" them.

One severely mentally impaired individual even said something about how the people who read Alive! should all be killed. I found that extremely insulting, because my dad used to be a "casual" Catholic who sometimes read that paper. I am an atheist myself, but I just find it so sickening that these people who are such idiots are of such low self-esteem that they feel the need to take it out on others.

If it were a Muslim paper talking about Muslim activities and someone made a topic about it here, would you have people shouting vile insults at it? No, you'd be banned, and probably a complaint made to the gardai if someone said something about the people who read it should be shot.

And really, Ireland was stupidly conservative years ago. Now it's become the exact opposite, people think that if you're against immigration you must be some conservative fool. They seem to think if you're against homosexual marriage (which I am), you must be some conservative nitwit when it is they themselves who are retarded.

So IMO Irish people are in general extremely weak-minded idiots who know nothing and just go along with whatever is the "cool" thing to do in the day.

Sharing is a bunch of bull too. And helping others. And what's all this crap I've been hearing about tolerance? :pac:

Tcha, those idiot liberal Irish, what with their support for progress and not judging people based on superficial means! Next they'll be giving women the vote!

dilbert2

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I never said that, I said the people who consider themselves "superior" to other people who are against such things.

Right, and those smug Holy Joes don't feel superior to those devilish atheists and non-religious heathens then? :rolleyes:

Older conservative people for example. The younger liberalized people have no respect for them, consider them stupid, even many politicians do.

Actually, nearly every government since the foundation of the state has been pandering to some of these dinosaurs - change is long overdue in order for Ireland to become a healthy and modern country, free from the so much of the bull that we have put up with whether from Fianna Fail/ Fine Gael, the Catholic Church, an outdated class system, greedy farmers put on a pedestal, and their every whim pandered to by FF/ FG. If all of this is what the older generations initiated, then i'm glad a newer generation is coming along with more enlightened opinions and views.

They are all completely for ruining our foods bringing GM foods into the country, and they dont know anything themselves.

Link please? As far as I know it's been the likes of Greena Fail who have been against GM crop growth. I haven't heard any farmers whinge about it yet, which is unusual.

They trust what the people in Brussels say, they trust the bankers and the "scientists" who say it's all okay and make stupid amounts of money from it.

Actually it's Fianna Failure who sold our country out to bankers. Scientists are more qualified to make science based assertions and decisions than you are, providing of course - you disprove any of their claims, using the scientific method alone. Maybe it's the fact that in science, you need evidence and the fact you can't bring in your own biased and subjective opinions and try and pass utter bull**** for fact, that puts you off science and scientists.

I'm against a homosexual couple raising a child, because it's not something that's natural.

What is unnatural about it then?

It's not something that's seen in nature.

Proof please?

I believe that homosexuality is a flaw.

No it's not, but your thinking is.

mickydoomsux

I love the whole "gays are un-natural" argument.

Humans are part of the natural world. We're animals, we're not divine, we're not special.

There's your homosexuality occuring in nature, morons.

Fremen

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I love the whole "gays are un-natural" argument.

Humans are part of the natural world. We're animals, we're not divine, we're not special.

There's your homosexuality occuring in nature, morons.

So I guess it is natural to dress up like Brian Cowen and have a stripper beat you with a neon yellow dildo. Hooray!

101001

Fremen wrote: »

So I guess it is natural to dress up like Brian Cowen and have a stripper beat you with a neon yellow dildo.

Naturally

Plautus

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I remember a while ago a person here made a topic about the paper Alive!

And the abuse, hatred, and vile comments made against that newspaper, for no reason, were something rotten.

You've answered your own question. Emboldened to help you out.

This is a newspaper that has run headlines like "Brian Lenihan encourages unnatural gender roles: says its okay for boys to play with dolls" and "EU - Communist Empire by stealth!"

Then there's the cringe-worthy 'Dumb-bag' segment in the back of every newspaper, where the priest assumes the persona of Satan rubbing his hands with glee at these foolish secularists, doing for him what he could never do: kill the message of Christ!

Or how about when the same ****ing idiot decides to pretend to be a 6th year Leaving Cert. student (a girl, invariably) enthusing about their personal relationship with faith. Every issue. It's funny how the tone of all those pieces never changes and each one reads just like a sermon from Sunday Mass. Isn't it?

But no, really, the nail in the coffin for Alive! has to be 'nothing published here reflects the opinions or views of the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin or the Dominican Order.'

Because the Bishops themselves have told this Dominican without a cause repeatedly to stop embarrassing them.

How do I know so much about it? Well, I once took a copy for myself ... and picked up the rest of the bundle and put them in the bin. Don't leave that ****e hanging around UCC for just anyone (say, a heathen like me) to pick up in future, my fundamentalist friends

Dudess

Oh yeah, the OP said "liberals" support the banks... indicating he hasn't a bull's notion what he's on about...

SuperInfinity

Dudess wrote: »

"In my opinion this", "in my opinion that" - it's either a fact or it isn't a fact, opinion has nothing to do with it.
Why do you care so much about what political ideology something is attached to, OP? I know it's a scary thought, but why not just be of whatever view you believe is right rather than ensuring it's conservative all the time and in opposition to "liberal"?
Oh and people actually believe these things, they're not trying to be cool. Just because that's your "opinion" doesn't make it correct. Ditto your awesomely stupid and unsubstantiated views on gay people.
And yeah, Alive! deserved all the hate and abuse, because it is a hateful, abusive, vile publication. If it were an equally hate-filled muslim publication, the reaction would be the same (ok, admittedly you'd get the odd annoying "It's their culture" protest, but they'd only be in a very small minority).
You also clearly think you're better than others so you know... stones, glasshouses...

The reason I care about a person's ideology so much is because I find it offensive that they are so against our own culture. If they are being offensive against things I believe in or have a lot of respect for, they should expect the same thing back at them.

pragmatic1

Op your posts are full of lulz and you cant see them.

Dudess

What's "our own culture"?

SuperInfinity

Plautus wrote: »

You've answered your own question. Emboldened to help you out.

This is a newspaper that has run headlines like "Brian Lenihan encourages unnatural gender roles: says its okay for boys to play with dolls" and "EU - Communist Empire by stealth!"

Then there's the cringe-worthy 'Dumb-bag' segment in the back of every newspaper, where the priest assumes the persona of Satan rubbing his hands with glee at these foolish secularists, doing for him what he could never do: kill the message of Christ!

Or how about when the same ****ing idiot decides to pretend to be a 6th year Leaving Cert. student (a girl, invariably) enthusing about their personal relationship with faith. Every issue. It's funny how the tone of all those pieces never changes and each one reads just like a sermon from Sunday Mass. Isn't it?

But no, really, the nail in the coffin for Alive! has to be 'nothing published here reflects the opinions or views of the Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin or the Dominican Order.'

Because the Bishops themselves have told this Dominican without a cause repeatedly to stop embarrassing them.

How do I know so much about it? Well, I once took a copy for myself ... and picked up the rest of the bundle and put them in the bin. Don't leave that ****e hanging around UCC for just anyone (say, a heathen like me) to pick up in future, my fundamentalist friends

You wouldn't do this to the likes of the Daily Mail.

You wouldn't throw a pile of Daily Mail there were in the shop into a rubbish bin would you?

You are entitled to take one Alive! paper (and throw it in the bin if you want), if you take anymore, you're a thief. Idiot.

Plautus

'Our own culture' is what Benedict XVI told him about the Christian heritage of Europe meaning that Muslims, 'alternative lifestyles' and contraception don't belong in a civilised society.

Pity that it's a load of horse-****, seeing as the history of Europe is the history of Church and State going their separate ways (incrementally) since 1100. But Benedict doesn't let that stop him rolling out the trite conceit. Presumably the same for our friend here.

And yeah, I'd totally do that with the Daily Mail. But seeing as Alive is free, I helped myself to as many copies as I wanted and saved money. It's economics, stupid!

How do you know I didn't need all those copies for myself and then did what I wanted with them? Besides, Father, don't tell me you didn't count my actions as a boost in circulation figures.

dilbert2

Plautus wrote: »

Then there's the cringe-worthy 'Dumb-bag' segment in the back of every newspaper,

Hey lay off dumb-bag - he is one my sources of amusement when i'm having a bad day.

srsly78

Obvious **** is obvious, even by AH standards.

Millicent

SuperInfinity wrote: »

You wouldn't do this to the likes of the Daily Mail.

You wouldn't throw a pile of Daily Mail there were in the shop into a rubbish bin would you?

You are entitled to take one Alive! paper (and throw it in the bin if you want), if you take anymore, you're a thief. Idiot.

He's robbing a free magazine? How do you work that one out? Not saying I would do it, but if I was gonna do it to Alive!, I'd sure as shit do it to the Daily Mail too.

Mike 1972

SuperInfinity wrote: »

And the abuse, hatred, and vile comments ......And now you hate them so much because you have such issues, you think you're "above" them... such idiots are of such low self-esteem ...One severely mentally impaired individual.....when it is they themselves who are retarded....extremely weak-minded idiots who know nothing ......

Youve got to admit the trolls around these parts are getting funnier.........

SuperInfinity

Plautus wrote: »

And yeah, I'd totally do that with the Daily Mail. But seeing as Alive is free, I helped myself to as many copies as I wanted and saved money. It's economics, stupid!

The law calls it thievery. You could go to jail for it.

Plautus wrote: »

How do you know I didn't need all those copies for myself and then did what I wanted with them?

It doesn't matter how many you "need", you are allowed one. Even if it's for purely "legitimate" reasons you are not entitled to it.

AlmightyCushion

SuperInfinity wrote: »

You wouldn't do this to the likes of the Daily Mail.

You wouldn't throw a pile of Daily Mail there were in the shop into a rubbish bin would you?

You are entitled to take one Alive! paper (and throw it in the bin if you want), if you take anymore, you're a thief. Idiot.

Banned for abuse.

Dudess

I'd say SuperInfinity actually believes the sh1te he says. There's a handful of Boards heads (Casey is another - he has about 50 usernames) who feel Ireland being less staunchly conservative is a big huge conspiracy and really just people trying to be trendy (because, you know, they'd never actually believe in this stuff) - and they take it VERY personally...