Cesarean or (natural) birth

Das Kitty

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I am not breaching any rule, or disrupting the forum in any way,

Yes you are:

The Charter wrote:

Arguing with a moderator
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I'm going to report this to other moderators for their feedback, because it seems you are using your position as mod totally incorrectly here.

Feel Free during your week off.

bulmersgal

I had the experience of getting my baby whisked off and not getting to see her for the first half hour of her life and its pure torture. Even to this day 11 months on, i still dont feel like we've bonded enough.

I had a natural birth with a failed epidural baby was whisked off because my waters had baby poop (not sure correct name) in it and she was distressed. Labour is tough but i'd do it any day off the week compared to a section. The thought of somebody taking your baby off you while you get stitched up makes me feel very sad.

Also because my epi failed i was able to get up within the hour and have a shower.

lonestargirl

bulmersgal wrote: »

The thought of somebody taking your baby off you while you get stitched up makes me feel very sad.

My husband was holding our baby while I was being stitched up, he was sitting on a stool beside my head so I was right beside the baby and could touch and kiss him.

The baby came with me to recovery where we had about 2 hours of skin-to-skin time. I also had the lactation consultant visit me and help get baby to latch. Only when I was being moved to the ward did the baby go to the nursery, for about an hour where they washed and dressed him and did their checks. I had my baby room in with me too.

I'm not advocating a c-section, my personal circumstances made it the best choice for me. However I feel that women who have a section shouldn't in any way feel that they have 'failed'. It is also clear that some Irish hospitals should really be examining their procedures so that women who do end up with sections have the most positive experience possible in their situation.

Grawns

There are several strong arguments for and against each choice. I could write a thesis on it. Personally I chose to have an elective section. It was fabulous. I never ever wanted to have a vaginal birth and had to research all the arguments to best present my case for Elective Section.


Here's an example of some of the very interesting stuff out there.

source = http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9175681

Survey of obstetricians' personal preference and discretionary practice.
Al-Mufti R, McCarthy A, Fisk NM.
Royal Postgraduate Medical School, Institute of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Queen Charlotte's and Chelsea Hospital, London, UK.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To determine obstetricians personal choices in relation to Down syndrome screening and mode of delivery for themselves or their partners.

STUDY DESIGN: Structured anonymous postal survey. All 282 obstetric consultants, senior registrars and registrars in NHS obstetric units within London's M25 region were surveyed.

RESULTS: The response rate was 73% (206). Fifty one per cent (105) chose to have elective amniocentesis/CVS without a previous screening test when maternal age was > or = 35 years and 11% (23) when < 35 years. Of the remainder, the majority wanted both maternal serum screening and nuchal translucency rather than a single screening test. In relation to mode of delivery, 17% (33) of obstetricians chose elective caesarean section (CS) in the absence of any clinical indication. Of those who chose CS, 88% did so out of fear of perineal damage. However when faced with a mid-cavity instrumental delivery in the second stage, only 5% (8) wanted CS, the remainder choosing operative vaginal delivery. With an uncomplicated breech presentation, only 27% (55) opted for external cephalic version while 57% (114) chose elective CS.

CONCLUSION: This study demonstrates interventionist attitudes among a sizeable percentage of obstetricians in relation to antenatal screening and their own preferred mode of delivery. It suggests that obstetricians regard management options not normally available to pregnant women as valid choices for themselves or their partners.

metrovelvet

lonestargirl wrote: »

My husband was holding our baby while I was being stitched up, he was sitting on a stool beside my head so I was right beside the baby and could touch and kiss him.

The baby came with me to recovery where we had about 2 hours of skin-to-skin time. I also had the lactation consultant visit me and help get baby to latch. Only when I was being moved to the ward did the baby go to the nursery, for about an hour where they washed and dressed him and did their checks. I had my baby room in with me too.

I'm not advocating a c-section, my personal circumstances made it the best choice for me. However I feel that women who have a section shouldn't in any way feel that they have 'failed'. It is also clear that some Irish hospitals should really be examining their procedures so that women who do end up with sections have the most positive experience possible in their situation.

Ok, you had an optimal experience of a c section.

I have absolutely no idea who was holding my baby or where he was when I was being stitched up as I was still unconcious.

Had no skin to skin time.

Was tied to a catheter for two days and too stoned on morphine to process anything.

Nurses did not mind the baby at night or during the day when I could not get up to get the baby and I had the baby with me in the room for the five days I was in the hospital.

I would all in all say it was horrendous and I cant bear the thought of walking anywhere near that hospital again.

Nice clean scar though. Obviously a good surgeon, whoever it was that sliced through those eight layers of muscles and fat.

And I had my baby in the US.

Cat Melodeon

Have to say that while in general I have nothing bad to say about my antenatal & delivery care, my experience on the postnatal ward was somewhat different. There was no lactation consultant to be seen. I was the only one in my ward of 4 breastfeeding but apart from the lovely midwife who brought me to the ward and set me up immediately after the birth, no one else offered support or advice until I met my PHN at home 3 days later.

There was no help on the ward for the mum who'd had a c-section. Myself and another mum helped her lift the baby in and out of the crib night and day. There was rarely a response when the bell was rung (I wasn't even told there was a bell, only figured it out on day 2). The hospital advocates rooming-in as an evidence-based practice but does not have the staff resources necessary to implement such a policy, leaving mums and infants effectively to fend for themselves.

These are not criticisms of the midwives or the nursing staff. The ones I did come in contact with were competent, kind, professional and severely overworked (bar one formula-happy idiot). It was evident that there simply weren't enough bodies to cover the patients' needs. Perhaps some people have had better experiences than me, maybe the hospital you attended was better-managed or you went private or you gave birth at a time when there wasn't as much strain on the services. But what I have described is a regular, common experience in maternity hospitals in Ireland. There are numerous reports out there documenting this, from the AIMS and Cuidiu reports to assessments carried out by the Irish Nurses Organisation, and they all describe the same basic failing: chronic understaffing to the extent that patient safety can at times be compromised.

I'll still say that my experience of the public system here in Ireland was amazing, but that was simply down to how good the nursing staff was and is not a reflection of the massive problems that exist in the system as a whole.

lolli

I had a natural birth and it was the most traumatic experience ever. I still find it hard to talk about.

I had a 3rd degree tear, no epi (even though I had it booked 6 months in advance) and an 18 hour labour.

I had requested a c section originally but was told no. I'm mad about that sometimes because if i had a c section then my daughter wouldnt have gotten strep B meningitis which is caught in the birth canal.

I know her hip prob would still be there.

I think its so different for everyone. Some people sail through natural births others prefer c sections. I will never have a natural birth again.

SanFran07

Lolli did you ever have an opportunity to talk about your care with a midwife or doctor? Sometimes it can be helpful to debrief about why your experience was so traumatic and if anything could have been differently. Unfortunately having a caesarean doesn't always protect against Group b strep..sadly some babies still get infected. Hope you'll have a better experience next time if you decided to have another.

Jinxi

I can't believe this is even a question.

Should I choose the process that the bady is designed to do, that is painful, but almost all outcomes for baby and mother are better, complication risks are lower, and recovery time and convience is better.

Or should I choose major surgery, where the natural vacuum of the abdomen is broken, layers of mucles are sliced, with most women having abdominal wall issues for the rest of their life, and can interfere with the first precious few days and hours of parenting with your new child.

Insane

natsuko

I've had both natural with epidural and a c-section.

First went pretty easy, waters broke, contractions started, 15 hours labour, epidural 6 hours in, top up bout an hour before delivery, didnt kick in so felt pretty much everything, kiwi delivery, 8lb 13oz, got treated late for strep b infection(but thats another story) Hardly any pain afterwards, was up and about in a few hours.

Had section 14 weeks ago now. Due date antenatal appointment, I happened to mention something to the nurse who then decided to send me for a growth scan, baby estimated at 11lb 11oz!!! :O So was advised by doctor that I should have the section, was my choice in the end but after hearing the possible injuries for the baby I decided I didnt want to risk little dislocated shoulders or hips. If he got stuck then I'd have had to have an emergency section anyway.
So got booked in the next day, didnt have enough time to have it sink in so was very anxious. The whole process, seemed very easy and quick. Numbed from waist down, catheter inserted, screen up, partner in, feeling a lot of dragging at my stomach, and out pops baby! Bout 10mins from first incision. Baby was shown to us, weighed at 9lbs11oz and put in an incubator with oxygen(section babies have a harder time with their first breaths) beside us. Another 40mins getting stitched up and almost throwing up, and passing out cos my blood pressure plumeted. Taken to recovery, son put in beside me, skin to skin, tried breastfeeding, was in a beautiful painfree place for a couple of hours after.
But then the anaesthetic started to wear off, and I was in agony. I would only ever choose to be in that much pain again if it was absolutely nessacery. I am still having some pain, doctor said from possible adhesions that might never go away. Felt really draining for weeks, trying to make sure you dont lift anything heavier than your baby, not straining, pain, tiredness, and trying to look after a newborn and a toddler its very hard to not do some of the things youre not meant to!

In regards to patient and baby care while in hospital, I also found that there werent enough staff on at night, though the ones who were on were brilliant but busy. I felt slightly awkward ringing the buzzer for little things you cant do, like if you dropped something under the bed or something like that, but most of the nurses are happy to oblige. (Limerick Maternity)

In short, I wouldnt change my mind about having the ceaserean because it was in the interest of my baby(and me) but I wouldnt have an elected one just because its easier, because I definately experienced the opposite. Unfortunately if I have another baby I will probably have to have another section, I wouldnt be confident in my body to go through a VBAC.

lolli

SanFran07 wrote: »

Lolli did you ever have an opportunity to talk about your care with a midwife or doctor? Sometimes it can be helpful to debrief about why your experience was so traumatic and if anything could have been differently. Unfortunately having a caesarean doesn't always protect against Group b strep..sadly some babies still get infected. Hope you'll have a better experience next time if you decided to have another.

I tried, they refused to talk with me about it. They just said ah well you got through it.

To be honest I really doubt I'll have another!

ktod

I had an emergency section the first time, which was a real shock because I wasn't expecting to have one.

Had an elective section the second time, loved it.

Was up and about in no time. No lasting problems from either section. Baby was placed beside me both times, and had lots of help from everyone.

Your doctor will advise on whether a section is necessary, but - and this is so important - it is up to the woman having the baby to decide how she wants to give birth. You can read the experiences and opinions of other people, and get their advice all you want, but please don't let it colour the final choice that is made.

axel rose

Jinxi wrote: »

I can't believe this is even a question.

Should I choose the process that the bady is designed to do, that is painful, but almost all outcomes for baby and mother are better, complication risks are lower, and recovery time and convience is better.

Or should I choose major surgery, where the natural vacuum of the abdomen is broken, layers of mucles are sliced, with most women having abdominal wall issues for the rest of their life, and can interfere with the first precious few days and hours of parenting with your new child.

Insane

Jinxi, you come across quite judgmental there you know.

Like Grawns I also decided on a c-section as soon as I realised I was pregnant. My consultant had no concerns that either my son or I were at any additional risk by choosing this method of childbirth. I would consider my consultant to be the best person to advise me if he had concerns. Most research on c sections are comparing healthy pregnancies with v birth to complicated pregnancies and labours that result in both elective and emergency c sections. So it is not exactly comparing like with like.

My son is as healthy as any child could be and I felt confident that my consultant listened to my concerns and didn't treat me as just another case. As I wasn't stressed about going into labour I could enjoy my pregnancy and my new baby.

Chosen c sections are not the easy way out, there is little dignity, some discomfort but great pain management options. Was up and about (slow but moving) the next day. I was driving within a week of leaving the hospital- all I needed was a Drs note for my insurance company.

If I was going to have another child I'd do it all again. (BTW love answering the 'why did you have a cs' question with 'cos I wanted it' )

Bicycle

I've had three very different experiences:

First child: induction and epidural. Difficult but fine. Got an infection afterwards. Couldn't sit for a week. Not nice.

Second child: caesarian under GA. Was due to have caesarian under epi but started to panic and decided to go under. Reason for caesarian was baby's weight (they thought she'd be 9.5lbs - I'm not very big - but she ended up 10lbs 8oz). I was tired for a while afterwards and was sore but I actually felt better mentally afterwards. I could talk about my stitches without everyone leaving the room!! This was probably my best birthing experience. No issues bonding with the child, but she's very similar to me in personality and looks. This may be part of the reason.

Third child: natural, gas. Horrific. Horrific. But then I was that bit older and my body was more battered.

I bonded well with all three, breastfed the first for 3 months, the second for 8 months and the third for 12 months.

At the end of the day, the baby will decide what way they are going to arrive. The birthplans I had for all three were totally irrelevant when I went into labour. Life decided its own dynamic.

CathyMoran

Son was born by c-section for medical reasons but they had problems putting in the spinal block (almost fainted with the pain). For me had it been possible I would have preferred a natural birth - having said that, it was the best thing for my son so I do not regret it. Daughter was concieved just over 5 months after son was born and have been advised that she will be a c-section as well. The surgery itself was fine and it was wonderful to see my son's first breaths (he cried straight away). I did not like not being able to spend much time with him at the begining (he was very small so was in ICU in an incubator for a while) but his daddy was there.

ktod

Jinxi wrote: »

I can't believe this is even a question.

Should I choose the process that the bady is designed to do, that is painful, but almost all outcomes for baby and mother are better, complication risks are lower, and recovery time and convience is better.

Or should I choose major surgery, where the natural vacuum of the abdomen is broken, layers of mucles are sliced, with most women having abdominal wall issues for the rest of their life, and can interfere with the first precious few days and hours of parenting with your new child.

Insane

have you had a section yourself?

Jinxi

axel rose wrote: »

Jinxi, you come across quite judgmental there you know.

Like Grawns I also decided on a c-section as soon as I realised I was pregnant. My consultant had no concerns that either my son or I were at any additional risk by choosing this method of childbirth. I would consider my consultant to be the best person to advise me if he had concerns. Most research on c sections are comparing healthy pregnancies with v birth to complicated pregnancies and labours that result in both elective and emergency c sections. So it is not exactly comparing like with like.

My son is as healthy as any child could be and I felt confident that my consultant listened to my concerns and didn't treat me as just another case. As I wasn't stressed about going into labour I could enjoy my pregnancy and my new baby.

Chosen c sections are not the easy way out, there is little dignity, some discomfort but great pain management options. Was up and about (slow but moving) the next day. I was driving within a week of leaving the hospital- all I needed was a Drs note for my insurance company.

If I was going to have another child I'd do it all again. (BTW love answering the 'why did you have a cs' question with 'cos I wanted it' )

Sorry if you feel judged but I stand by what I said.

I hope against hope that when I have my first child in Sept that I don't need a c-section. I think that sometimes they are absolutely nessecary, and I completely understand the medical need for them.

I also totally judge women who chose electives over vaginal , unless there is a clinical phobia of childbirth. I make no apology for it. Its just my opinion. Its not getting a tooth out. It is cutting through 7 layers of tissue, creating scar tissue and making your bady go through trauma and a hell of alot of healing..."cus you wana".:rolleyes:

Das Kitty

Civil Posting is expected on the parenting forum at all times. Jinxi Infracted

axel rose

Best of luck with your pregnancy Jinxy. I would advise you not to get too hung up on the thought that having a c-section is somehow a 'failure'. (kind of putting words in your mouth but I hope you get what I mean).

Definitely have a birth plan to discuss with your midwife, but anything can happen and god forbid you MAY need a section. You don't want to be cluttering up your head with silly ideas of failure when you are holding a healthy baby.

You may notice that the nursing staff don't give out medals for 'Best Vaginal Birth' or 'Most amazing C Section).

Crazy because if I had to go through a v birth I would be cluttering my head with thoughts of failure for me. Tried to get my head around the idea but my head kept saying NO!!!( We are all different and I thank god for that!)

I hope you get the experience you are planning- just like I got the experience I did.

wmpdd3

I really did feel sorry for the lady accross from me when she did drop things and couldn't pick them up. She was too nice to keep ringing the nurse. I picked them up a few times but she just got embarrassed when I started getting out of bed to get them again.

I think if a lady has a section they should be allowed to have their partners with them for longer during the night especially for the 1st few nights.

The days of the nurses taking you baby for the night seem long gone and maybe you wouldn't like not to have your baby beside you.

PS what's a kiwi delivery?

Jinxi

I think that if people take what I have stated twice now as MY OPINION that is something they need to take up with twhy they feel so hurt by what I said.

I stated clearly that I was talking about ELECTIVE c-sections, never did I say it was a failure.

I think Das Kitty has a problem with the majority of what I write and I would like to for her to decalre where I ever got personal with a poster. I qoute someone who quoted me, and replied to their opinion that I was being insulting. Which I find insulting. I didn't KNOW she had chosen an elective c section when I wrote it.

I think its time I got of the boards to be honest. It seem to me that if you have any sort of opinion and you try and follow the rules you still get "infracted"

January

Jinxi, if you have a problem with a mods decision take it to the Dispute Resolution Forum, it can be found in the Help Desk. You were told this in your thread in feedback.

Banned for 7 days for arguing with a moderator.

Grawns

Last year 5 women I know personally had babies and only one managed a vaginal birth. There were 3 emergency ( failed vbac, liver toxicity, placental rupture) and 1 elective because of medical reasons, but she was a private patient. ( giant baby/tiny mum). All of these women have healthy babies now because of their sections.

Every pregnant woman should be educated about the chances of needing a section (approx 1 in 4 = 25% but mine were higher more like 50%) and be mentally prepared. It's not any kind of failure and should be seen as a safe birth rather than a disaster.

For the likes of me who have always thought - yuk! about childbirth. It's more than that, I genuinely dreaded the chaos and lack of control that seems to go hand in hand with a vaginal birth.

My age (39) meant that there was a much increased risk of instrumental or caesarean delivery and I had a far lower chance of a spontaneous delivery than a younger woman. Thus my chances of what I most feared happening were very high. That is a non-spontaneous protracted and painful labour followed by fetal distress and an emergency section.

Nobody would ever want an emergency section. I wanted a planned organized elective section with regional anesthetic rather than a more risky general anesthetic. I also dreaded a bad labour which can be linked to poor bonding and an increased risk of post natal depression.

An Elective C-section has lower rates of neonatal mortality and severe morbidity than emergency C-section or vaginal delivery and it also has a lower risk of neonatal death, skull fracture, and permanent shoulder injury. I wanted to give my baby the safest birth possible and any additional associated risks (other than a higher risk of transient tachypnea in the baby) were mine. These risks while not high are worth mentioning and include hysterectomy, scarring on the uterus, more protracted and painful recovery and a risk of infection of the wound and associated complications

Ask your doctor if you don't believe me - Elective sections are safer for babies than any other form of delivery

Finally an instrumental delivery can cause severe and lasting damage to a woman. Yuk!

I'm not trying to put women off vaginal birth. Go for it! Just be prepared that it may not work out that way. You will still have done all the real work involved in carrying and delivering a healthy baby.

Morag

I also can't get my head around a woman choosing to have surgery when it's not needed. A C Section can have a lot more risks and a lot more complications then a normal vaginal birth. But it if a person can't come to that conclusion themselves even after talking to midwives and doing thier own research then good luck to them.

I think a lot of women choose a c section out of fear, all those images of women pushing and screaming and the 'war stories' they year about tearing and vagina's like a wizards sleve have gotten to them.

Grawns

Sharrow wrote: »

I also can't get my head around a woman choosing to have surgery when it's not needed. A C Section can have a lot more risks and a lot more complications then a normal vaginal birth. But it if a person can't come to that conclusion themselves even after talking to midwives and doing thier own research then good luck to them./QUOTE]


Actually the statistic are pretty favourable. There are risks but they are not significant - the main reason to avoid a section is that it prevent a women from having a large family. More than 4 sections is considered dangerous.

Sharrow wrote: »

I think a lot of women choose a c section out of fear, all those images of women pushing and screaming and the 'war stories' they year about tearing and vagina's like a wizards sleve have gotten to them.

You're not wrong there. Yuk!

gcgirl

Most mums i know have had their babies naturally then there is the odd few like myself that had to get C sections, In my first pregnancy i was going to get an epi and see how things pan out, pain wise i was able to cope but you can be on 3cm for so long before junior goes in to distress, whipped up to theater for emergency c section darling daughter no 1 enters, i was knackard, tired was not the word for it and unfort she had to be brought down to special care ward for low blood sugar, she weighed 8lbs.13oz.
2 & 3 pregnancy's were elective c sections middle child was 9lbs 13oz sound delivery bit sick due to spinal block but functioned quite well, as did the 3rd one who was only 7lbs6oz smallest n hairiest another blissfull birth:) if i had of known there first was going to be like it was i would have requested a elective c section because i simple cannot give birth the natural way but then again it should have been picked up prior to labour but good luck what ever you pick either way its going to be sore:)

natsuko

Yl

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I really did feel sorry for the lady accross from me when she did drop things and couldn't pick them up. She was too nice to keep ringing the nurse. I picked them up a few times but she just got embarrassed when I started getting out of bed to get them again.

I think if a lady has a section they should be allowed to have their partners with them for longer during the night especially for the 1st few nights.

The days of the nurses taking you baby for the night seem long gone and maybe you wouldn't like not to have your baby beside you.

PS what's a kiwi delivery?

When they apply suction to the babys head with a plunger like object and pull to assist delivery, gentler than the forceps but left my son with a cone head for a couple of weeks:). Also called a vaccum delivery.

SanFran07

Grawns wrote: »

Ask your doctor if you don't believe me - Elective sections are safer for babies than any other form of delivery

This is a bit of a stretch - there is no evidence to show elective surgery is safer for healthy babies.

Morag

Elective surgery mean more drugs in the mother's sustem which is then also in the baby's system.

ktod

Sharrow wrote: »

Elective surgery mean more drugs in the mother's sustem which is then also in the baby's system.

If a woman has an epidural at all, then some - but only some - can get into the baby's systerm. It is regarded as being very low risk, and with no long term problems.

There's information all over the internet about it, but from personal experience, neither of my two c-section babies were sluggish (far from it) or had trouble latching on.