Why do the Irish always run away

tiger55

gsxr1 wrote: »

Im outta here as soon as I can.

If I dont I will lose my house as there is no work. I can rent it, and keep it.

Plus the thoughts of waking up to warm sunshine and getting lots of money is very appealing.

Im taking my wife and son.

This is my second time emigrating . Its very exciting .

I hope I wont be back again TBH. I am alot more mature this time around and the homesickness that pulled me back the last time will not be a factor this time.

Where are you planning to go? The grass is not always greener on the other side

yupyup7up

ScumLord wrote: »

Are we? Those are all American companies apparently using Ireland to dodge tax. How much of their R&D is done in this country?

Just saying that these companies have a building in this country isn't much to be proud of, they have basis all over the world. I don't know much about them maybe they do a lot of important work here but as far as I can see it's basic support and manufacturing and I don't think manufacturing is Irelands strong point, our infrastructure lets us down as much as anything else.

Cisco - R&D
Microsoft - R&D
IBM - R&D
Google - R&D
not 100% sure about the others.

I was naming those from a software, hardware R&D POV not from a manufacturing POV.

Copper23 wrote: »

I.T. is absolutely a degree which is worth something but if you are not willing to travel it's value decreases ten fold.
I'm sorry to make assumptions but it seems like you might have only graduated in last few years. Go back to the early/mid 2000's. Look at all the companies which pulled out of Ireland. They overshadow those which remain.
And when you are talking about Google, Facebook, or anywhere else, they are NOT large operations in the global scheme of things... they are always just one taxbreak in the middle east away from pulling out.

As for major Irish IT companies? Who?
There are plenty of Irish companies but not many that are very big. When I say big I mean in terms of number of employees, pay scales and oppertunites available in a smaller firm.

It's not all doom and gloom. There IS still plenty in I.T. in Ireland but there is not more than any other industry.

Never said major Irish companies but there are a lot around.
As for the the multinationals, you run that risk with any industry. We just happen to have quite a few that are based in Ireland with R&D setups here. Yeah I qualified 2 years ago.

I don't agree with the travel element. Wages here are better than most other countries and the cost of living (Dublin is expensive alright but not as bad as other capitals) is for the most part, lower. The companies that pulled out are largely unskilled/manufacturing based. The R&D side of things here is very strong.

fastasfook

tiger55 wrote: »

Where are you planning to go? The grass is not always greener on the other side

people of ireland what is going on with all the bad talk
what do the birds do when summer ends or coming near the end , they fly away to warmer pastures where there is food and so it goes on with the human race as well, i do feel so bad for families who try to better them selves , but i dont agree on blaming everything on our goverment
when times were good i worked very hard , i had (still have ) my own company and i had 10 to 25 lads working for me and what a ball i had , i race motorbikes for a hobby and i did not give a fook about money , but i did not go for any houses as i had been through all that in england, i bought a small site for little money and put a mobile home on it. what i am getting at is during all these times no one was giving a ****e about anything , we all knew things were out of hand but we kept buying those overpriced things like houses and sites etc etc and no one forced us to spend our money , where were we all living before this happened , i can tell you what happened we had nothing in this country for so long and then we lost the run of ourselves , buying fancy cars , big houses , going on holidays , eating out all the time , it was fooking great wasnt it, and then like they say the bubble burst and we woke up to a big pile of ****e and it feels terrible,and its terribe watching families being broken up to go away for work to other countries. i do blame our goverment for some of the mess and our bosses who took on cheaper labour and got rid the irish , i know of quite a few firms that did that , it happened to me 4, people from another country were give my work, and would you believe it , the boss rang me up after letting me go to ask me to come back and give him a hand out and i asked him what about the 4 lads he took on, he said to me they were not able to do the job as good as me , i said then you should not have let me go and that was me politely saying go and fook yourself, and it was a disgrace and all we did about it was get drunk and talk ****e, if we lived in france or anywhere else like those places there would be riots , but being irish we just put up with it. i know we can all get through this as we are all well most us hard workers , dont be afraid to do any kind of work , remember money has no shame and as long our famillies have food and are all healthy who gives a fook , having lots of money is not everything either if you are sick, i know a millionarer who died of cancer , i bet he would love to be poor and be with his family now, as i said to my girlfriend one day , if i was the poorest man in the world, at this moment i am the richest , she said what was i on about , i said to her well look at our kids arent they lovely and healthy a bit fooking mad but they are great kids and i have a good woman as well , she is a bit mad to sometimes lol ,. so people of ireland be strong and take a deep breath and breathe in life and try to be positive and i wish ye all the best for a bright sunny time

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

fastasfook wrote: »

people of ireland what is going on with all the bad talk
what do the birds do when summer ends or coming near the end , they fly away to warmer pastures where there is food and so it goes on with the human race as well, i do feel so bad for families who try to better them selves , but i dont agree on blaming everything on our goverment
when times were good i worked very hard , i had (still have ) my own company and i had 10 to 25 lads working for me and what a ball i had , i race motorbikes for a hobby and i did not give a fook about money , but i did not go for any houses as i had been through all that in england, i bought a small site for little money and put a mobile home on it. what i am getting at is during all these times no one was giving a ****e about anything , we all knew things were out of hand but we kept buying those overpriced things like houses and sites etc etc and no one forced us to spend our money , where were we all living before this happened , i can tell you what happened we had nothing in this country for so long and then we lost the run of ourselves , buying fancy cars , big houses , going on holidays , eating out all the time , it was fooking great wasnt it, and then like they say the bubble burst and we woke up to a big pile of ****e and it feels terrible,and its terribe watching families being broken up to go away for work to other countries. i do blame our goverment for some of the mess and our bosses who took on cheaper labour and got rid the irish , i know of quite a few firms that did that , it happened to me 4, people from another country were give my work, and would you believe it , the boss rang me up after letting me go to ask me to come back and give him a hand out and i asked him what about the 4 lads he took on, he said to me they were not able to do the job as good as me , i said then you should not have let me go and that was me politely saying go and fook yourself, and it was a disgrace and all we did about it was get drunk and talk ****e, if we lived in france or anywhere else like those places there would be riots , but being irish we just put up with it. i know we can all get through this as we are all well most us hard workers , dont be afraid to do any kind of work , remember money has no shame and as long our famillies have food and are all healthy who gives a fook , having lots of money is not everything either if you are sick, i know a millionarer who died of cancer , i bet he would love to be poor and be with his family now, as i said to my girlfriend one day , if i was the poorest man in the world, at this moment i am the richest , she said what was i on about , i said to her well look at our kids arent they lovely and healthy a bit fooking mad but they are great kids and i have a good woman as well , she is a bit mad to sometimes lol ,. so people of ireland be strong and take a deep breath and breathe in life and try to be positive and i wish ye all the best for a bright sunny time

I'd like to buy a paragraph please, Dale, and then I think I can solve the puzzle.

Seriously, though, being ambitious does not always transfer into a need for material possessions. Sometimes, people just want a better quality of live and to be in a position to be able to finance hobbies, sports interests and other personal interests. You can't race motorbikes if you're on the dole and I'd imagine it's bloody difficult even if you have a low paid job.

th3 s1aught3r

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Seriously, though, being ambitious does not always transfer into a need for material possessions. Sometimes, people just want a better quality of live and to be in a position to be able to finance hobbies, sports interests and other personal interests. You can't race motorbikes if you're on the dole and I'd imagine it's bloody difficult even if you have a low paid job.

You are contradicting yourself a little there
If you want to do those things you mentioned you need money, a material posession

gsxr1

tiger55 wrote: »

Where are you planning to go? The grass is not always greener on the other side

Perth.

My cousin has moved there in the last few months and cant believe the difference. He is doing really well hanging plasterboard. He said I would get a start doing (dirty) chippy work on my first day.

Im a carpenter by trade and easily qualify for a proper visa to stay.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

You are contradicting yourself a little there
If you want to do those things you mentioned you need money, a material posession

Not really: the material possessions I referred to are the ones like second houses and fancy cars that fastasfook mentioned above. Things that you don't really need.

Equipment for recreational activies, is more practical. The bikes I took as an example, as Fastasfook mentions biking.

rage against the leaving

Copper23 wrote: »

I hope you don't mind me picking a few holes here...




Ok, you started your agument well enough...


Based on what? As much as people like to talk it down, the Irish education system is held in high regard in other countries. At least let me put it this way... An Irish degree is worth a lot. I work in the States... they LOVE the Irish... the company I am in has bases all over the world and outsources to many more but more and more they can't stop praising the Irish workers. For example, more and more teams are moving away from India, as much as it makes sense for the company to outsource to India for financial reasons, the quality of work and worker is much higher in Ireland and managers of individual teams want Irish workers. That is their perception based on experience. The perception of Irish graduated vs. many other countries is held VERY highly. For that reason they are out sourcing more and more work to the few Irish based locations and even more so are hiring Irish graduates to come straight to the US and sponsoring their VISA... they can pick any other country, including their own but they DON'T. That is how highly Irish graduates are rated abroad. For the past number of years the ease at which Irish can graduate from college with a very good degree without being crippled by debt means the Irish are VERY highly educated.

How do you estimate that we are uneducated?


I don't really get what this means or how it applies to this topic. There will always be vacancies where there is high demand.



Well if I can just talk about the sector I am in... well... in the early 2000's, there were droves of companies in Ireland looking for Irish graduates and workers. Due to the government seeing fit to cash in on this, these firms realised it was a better financial decision to pull out of Ireland and send the work elsewhere. Factor in the recession meaning these companies can now afford to hire less people worldwide then those jobs just don't exist. It's not a matter of strong vs. weak.
If you have 100 people equally capable of doing a job. In 2000, those 100 jobs existed in Ireland... Now probably 5 of them are left and at best 50 of them still exist but have been moved to India or somewhere cheaper. Where do you think those others who were let go will work? It doesn't mean they are incapable.


What? Construction is unreliable? The way the construction industry was HANDLED was unstable and unsustainable... yes.
But surely you are not suggesting that construction is a dying trade? So what? Basically we have build all the buildings and infrastructure that the worlds needs and now we're done? I must be missing something in your point but I don't think so.


There's some merit in what you're saying in relation to amount spend vs. output but other than that I go back to what I said above. Are you saying consttuction is done? Never to be needed again and we should have forseen it? What are you on about?



I'm totally lost now...
Yes, sure the bubble was going to burst... but what is your solution? For the average bricky to work up to foreman? To site manager? To what? Architecht? Then their job would be safe? You want every worker on that building site to become a Developer? Then who will lay the bricks?
And sorry if I'm confusing your point but isn't your arguement above that this industry is on its knees, never to recover? Then why even work your way up if thats the case? Whether you laid bricks or designed sky scrapers they are all in the same situation.


Because a recession does not mean everything shuts down. It is a case of supply and demand. Recession means there is less money to be spread about. Demand goes down, some businesses continue as normal, some continue at a slower rate, some fail. It doesn't mean EVERYTHING disappears.


Says who? There are some incredibly talented hard working people who are either in Ireland and the jobs they could do are just not open right now or they have just left to use what they have somewhere where it is wanted or needed. What you are saying is that Ireland has now gone through some sort of Darwin phase where anyone who is not the elite has been weeded out and only the best of the best now remain in Ireland, suggesting everything is better than it could ever have been before? Look around... is that what you see?


Yes and no. The government, EU, IMF dictate a lot about the country. I've already covered the 100 people into 1 job scenario above. But yes... I agree in saying that if you have to go and do work off your own back, earn little to nothing if it means a brighter future, then yeah. I agree with this... But people are doing this... not everyone but some are. Your painting everyone with the same brush. There are those who are doing everything they can to get themselves in a position to be on top in the future. To some that means doing as you say, 100 hours a week on little pay... to others it means moving abroad and probably working the same and hopefully being paid enough for it.


Everyone?


But what of all those engineers and scientists which have nobody to work for? Where as going back 5-10 years there was more oppertunities? Are these the wasters who aren't good enough that you mean? No? You seem to think they are hard working and intelligent in this paragraph.


And whats wrong with that?
While I'm all for improving Ireland. One thing I don't understand is why for such a small island, why everyone just wants to stay in their own little patch and never see the world and what there is on offer?


And there are plenty who are... and a government and opposition who are actively discouraging people for voting for independents. Not exactly a nice climate to be in! But there ARE people doing it. At last count theres more independents in my constituency than I ever remember in any recent elections.

The poorly educated thing....
OK I agree with you in hindsight that our degrees are highly rated BUT, our degrees and our actual knowledge are different things. This is just an example :
A relation of mine went to the bank 6 years ago to ask for a mortgage. He and his wife are not graduates of top degrees or anything, but are fairly smart. He asked for a 150,000 mortgage over 30 years(not sure of the exact figures). The banker, in his Celtic Tiger roar, said that he could easily get a 300,00 one with his credit rating. Said relation declined, saying that while he was earning a lot at the time, it might not last. Bank disappointed but gave him the mortgage. 6 years on, that same relation is now after taking a big paycut, as is wife, but are still not in any great difficulty because they have tried to spend only what they have. It's like "caveat emptor", you have to think about what you are getting yourself into, you can't expect someone to regulate everything. In a boom like there was, people were foolish with what they spent (or rather what credit they took). Not just the bankers, but the ordianry people. We need to be educated in not just areas such as science etc, but in basic personal skills, such as how to finance oneself properly

The construction thing:
No construction is not done. Of course the world will always need new constructions, maintenance, repairing etc. but property booms are generally trouble. It really needs to be more consistent. That was the point i tried to make (it came out bad). It needs to be done more efficiently. I agree that it was handled poorly.

No, I don't think that the best of the best are here. In fact, I think some of the best have left and it's a shame, but life goes on. There was a possibility they would have went regardless. But everyone knows a few unemployed people at least. And generally, those who are good at what they do find a job within a year or so. Or else, they go back to education, or emigrate. I don't see emigration as that big a deal, thousands did it while the Tiger was roaring anyway.

The 100 people into 1 job scenario:
This hasn't happened in too many areas though. Usually, it is a whole company shutting down at the moment, and all of the workers being unemployed. And I think you'll agree, the best workers were more likely to find a new job in the short term than the rest.

The independents thing:
In fairness, Independents don't have enough of an impact on governing to make a big change. Any of the major decisions in the recent past have been taken by the leading party. Usually, well in my area anyway and those surrounding, Independents focus far more on local issues than national ones.

th3 s1aught3r

rage against the leaving wrote: »

The independents thing:
In fairness, Independents don't have enough of an impact on governing to make a big change. Any of the major decisions in the recent past have been taken by the leading party. Usually, well in my area anyway and those surrounding, Independents focus far more on local issues than national ones.

I would hope that after this election we might have a some independents in government who have a more national view than before
A FG/Labour coalition would be bad for jobs I fear as Labour will want to keep the bloated public service the way it is

Luxie

Einhard wrote: »

Eh no, we're not really. Partly because most foreigners don't really notice Ireland's existence, and partly because they realise that there are many, more fucked up countries in the world. The Belgians have been without a government for nearly a year, while in Italy, the PM is facing charges for underage prostitution. Ireland's a bit of a mess alright, but the world isn;t pointing and laughing at us, as some seem to think.

Indeed. I work with loads of different nationalities and the topic of Ireland has cropped up maybe once (in terms of the mess it's in).

It's not like I'm being pointed at and laughed at in the canteen.:D

There are a lot of folk back home who think Ireland has a higher profile than it actually really has.

Mike 1972

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Its funny how you always hear about the Irish "built America"

I generally dont pay much heed of talk like that given just about every other nationality in Europe makes the same claim when in point of fact it was the Africans.