JNLR

Elmo

The Battle Axe Figures?

Badabing

Poor Tom Dunne he lost another 1,000 listeners :eek: Big deicsion needed at Newstalk.

BrianD

Badabing wrote: »

Poor Tom Dunne he lost another 1,000 listeners :eek: Big deicsion needed at Newstalk.

1,000 listeners is not really a strong indicator to make a decision.

overthenest

folks where is it possible to get the full jnlr listing? how did i radio do? colm hayes?

smcgiff

overthenest wrote: »

folks where is it possible to get the full jnlr listing? how did i radio do? colm hayes?

It's expensive to get the breakdown's first hand - the radio stations pay for the research and get the detailed breakdowns.

Elmo

smcgiff wrote: »

It's expensive to get the breakdown's first hand - the radio stations pay for the research and get the detailed breakdowns.

This is completely wrong, since we are getting the use of statistics for propaganda purposes. Why not just release them in full? Instead we get news report after news report based on Press Releases from stations rather then independent facts.

Badabing

BrianD wrote: »

1,000 listeners is not really a strong indicator to make a decision.

Really? 52,000 is good enough for prime time radio? and the trend is down

eiresandra

Elmo wrote: »

This is completely wrong, since we are getting the use of statistics for propaganda purposes. Why not just release them in full? Instead we get news report after news report based on Press Releases from stations rather then independent facts.

The JNLR figures are a tool for radio stations to use for programming planning and for the advertising agencies to help decide their spend. The agencies also get full access to the data and sit on the board through IAPI. They're not for the general public or media to pick through for titillation and bitching.

There may be a fair argument that all RTE/public service figures should be released as the taxpayer is funding the JNLRs through the licence fee. However, the independent sector has no duty to release them in full.

mikom

Elmo wrote: »

This is completely wrong, since we are getting the use of statistics for propaganda purposes. Why not just release them in full? Instead we get news report after news report based on Press Releases from stations rather then independent facts.

Shur, how else would RTE continue to cod the nation..........

BrianD

Badabing wrote: »

Really? 52,000 is good enough for prime time radio? and the trend is down

That's not what you said. You mentioned a figure of 1,000 as the slippage. Even on 52,000 it's not a strong indicator in itself.

Elmo wrote:

This is completely wrong, since we are getting the use of statistics for propaganda purposes. Why not just release them in full? Instead we get news report after news report based on Press Releases from stations rather then independent facts.

It's not wrong at all. The stations pay for the data to be researched and prepared for advertisers. It costs each station a considerable amount of money. More than sufficient top level data is released into the public domain by the MRBI and BAI. There's no reason for them to release full data to the public unless the station wishes to. Even in the case of RTE the arguement could be put forward that this information id directly related to their commercial operations (after all the JNLR is not programming research - it's primary purpose is for advertisers).

The JNLR is independent (to the extent that it's joint industry research paid by the subscribing stations) and therefore each stations "propaganda" can only be based on the facts. Any press release can only make claims based on the figures in the report. And yes more than one station be number one depending on the figures quoted - a youth station may claim to be number one in the 15-34 year olds, another station number one amongst all adults etc. etc. Other stations will lodge a complaint if false claims are made. There's no cod at all.

EchoO

BrianD wrote: »

That's not what you said. You mentioned a figure of 1,000 as the slippage. Even on 52,000 it's not a strong indicator in itself.

His audience is down by nearly 29% in the past 15 months. That, and the fact all the other daytime shows on Newstalk have increased their listeners over that period, would indicate things aren't going too well for him.

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/rte-gains-ground-in-latest-radio-listenership-figures-2011-02/

Elmo

eiresandra wrote: »

The JNLR figures are a tool for radio stations to use for programming planning and for the advertising agencies to help decide their spend. The agencies also get full access to the data and sit on the board through IAPI. They're not for the general public or media to pick through for titillation and bitching.

There may be a fair argument that all RTE/public service figures should be released as the taxpayer is funding the JNLRs through the licence fee. However, the independent sector has no duty to release them in full.

Sure the general media and people do so for their titillation and bitching in any case, as provide by the post that followed yours. (no offence to EchoO, BrianD, mikom, eiresandra, badabing, smcgiff, overthenest). Also there is a certain case to be made for academic research purposes. The research as pointed out has already been paid for by the Radio Stations, do they earn any money on the sale of should data?

Perhaps not the full results but certainly their top ten shows should be released by the BAI. A little more then what we currently get, I don't believe that newspaper articles based on individual press releases from radio stations is good Journalism. Pricing journalist out of the market is completely wrong also.

BrianD

Elmo wrote: »

Sure the general media and people do so for their titillation and bitching in any case, as provide by the post that followed yours. (no offence to EchoO, BrianD, mikom, eiresandra, badabing, smcgiff, overthenest). Also there is a certain case to be made for academic research purposes. The research as pointed out has already been paid for by the Radio Stations, do they earn any money on the sale of should data?

So far as I am aware the JNLR is available to appropriate academic institutions. I did my thesis on audience research years ago and I recall having access to the JNLR book. Pretty certain that it was in the library. There may also have been a copy in the DCC central library. But that was a long time ago!

Perhaps not the full results but certainly their top ten shows should be released by the BAI. A little more then what we currently get, I don't believe that newspaper articles based on individual press releases from radio stations is good Journalism. Pricing journalist out of the market is completely wrong also.

You could claim that journalists are priced out of the market for everything then. All the journalist has to do is ring the individual stations for the information like any other story. It's up to the station if they want to provide the information. If a station is factually incorrect with info published in the media it will be picked up on very fast by competitors.

The other thing is that the Top 10 shows will be dominated by national radio, especially Radio 1. This would overshadow the results of other stations especially the locals. Even on a national level RTE Radio 1 has superior coverage to other stations as it has an extensive FM network and is available on LW.

Elmo

BrianD wrote: »

The other thing is that the Top 10 shows will be dominated by national radio, especially Radio 1. This would overshadow the results of other stations especially the locals. Even on a national level RTE Radio 1 has superior coverage to other stations as it has an extensive FM network and is available on LW.

Top 10 programmes from each station rather then an over all national one. National Radio stations top 10 by licence area, for comparison. Local Hours top 10 hours nationally.

E.g.

Nationally local hours combined figures.

1. 5pm (200,000 listeners)
2. 8am (100,000 listeners)

etc

BrianD

Elmo wrote: »

Top 10 programmes from each station rather then an over all national one. National Radio stations top 10 by licence area, for comparison. Local Hours top 10 hours nationally.

E.g.

Nationally local hours combined figures.

1. 5pm (200,000 listeners)
2. 8am (100,000 listeners)

etc

Firstly, it's not ideal to compare individual programmes across franchise areas as the population of those franchises vary.

Secondly, most stations sell in time blocks e.g. Primetime 7am-7pm or Total audience e.g. 7am-Midnight and not show by show. Some stations may offer packages around specific programmes or a fixing charge to have your ad in that show. Produce a list of 10 ten shows on a station and an advertiser will only want to be in those shows. Ideally a station wants to sell all of it's minutage for every hour that they make available for advertising.

Not sure what you mean by "Nationally local hours combined figures."

Elmo

BrianD wrote: »

Firstly, it's not ideal to compare individual programmes across franchise areas as the population of those franchises vary.

Secondly, most stations sell in time blocks e.g. Primetime 7am-7pm or Total audience e.g. 7am-Midnight and not show by show. Some stations may offer packages around specific programmes or a fixing charge to have your ad in that show. Produce a list of 10 ten shows on a station and an advertiser will only want to be in those shows. Ideally a station wants to sell all of it's minutage for every hour that they make available for advertising.

Not sure what you mean by "Nationally local hours combined figures."

Firstly I don't care about the Advertiser. Sorry advertiser, you know your business and you know it isn't always about the top ten shows.

RTÉ One's Top 10, 2FM Top 10, Today FM's Top 10.
WLRFM's Top 10, LMFM's Top 10, Galway Bay Fm Top 10etc

4FM Top 10, with top tens for national station in those areas.

Top 10 local hours, when do most people listen to local radio, Drive time and Hook V all local radio stations during those hours.

BrianD

Elmo wrote: »

Firstly I don't care about the Advertiser. Sorry advertiser, you know your business and you know it isn't always about the top ten shows.

OK, there discussion on the JNLR ends. The JNLR is advertising research. It is designed to provide information to gauge the effectiveness of advertising schedules. It doesn't tell you how good bad or indifferent a programme is. You can only make inferences based on the the numbers,

RTÉ One's Top 10, 2FM Top 10, Today FM's Top 10.
WLRFM's Top 10, LMFM's Top 10, Galway Bay Fm Top 10etc

4FM Top 10, with top tens for national station in those areas.

There's no commercial benefit to the stations doing this. RTE only do it because they have generally got the Top 10 or 20 shows nationwide.

Top 10 local hours, when do most people listen to local radio, Drive time and Hook V all local radio stations during those hours.

That's very specific information that could only be of relevance to an advertiser.

Elmo

BrianD wrote: »

There's no commercial benefit to the stations doing this.

What commercial benefit is there by not doing it? As you say I could email every single local radio station and ask for their top 10. I would suggest few would refuse to provide this information.

That's very specific information that could only be of relevance to an advertiser.

Why keep it under wraps so? If it is so specific who cares who has the information?

eiresandra

Elmo wrote: »

What commercial benefit is there by not doing it? As you say I could email every single local radio station and ask for their top 10. I would suggest few would refuse to provide this information.

You want the top ten shows? Do you want that based on reach, quarter hours or average audience? Total audience or is it just important to release the target audience figures? Is it fair to compare daily reach in the South West of RTE R1 and Spin SW when they have such different audiences?

The point is - there's a huge amount of data in JNLRs. It can take station management days and weeks to really go through it. No matter what figures you release, it would never be enough. I believe it's a case of all or nothing - it's only if you have a good understanding of JNLRs do you know where and what to look at and what to weigh up. Releasing one line of figures can lead to crude comparisons that perhaps don't portray the true picture as you need to look at all of the data as a whole.

Elmo

eiresandra wrote: »

You want the top ten shows? Do you want that based on reach, quarter hours or average audience? Total audience or is it just important to release the target audience figures? Is it fair to compare daily reach in the South West of RTE R1 and Spin SW when they have such different audiences?

The point is - there's a huge amount of data in JNLRs. It can take station management days and weeks to really go through it. No matter what figures you release, it would never be enough. I believe it's a case of all or nothing - it's only if you have a good understanding of JNLRs do you know where and what to look at and what to weigh up. Releasing one line of figures can lead to crude comparisons that perhaps don't portray the true picture as you need to look at all of the data as a whole.

I want the top 10 shows from each station, national ones by region to allow regional top 10s not to be over shadowed by the National Radio stations. I want them based on the same basis as the Top 10s issued by RTÉ.

RTÉ Two and TG4 have very different audiences yet we still get their top ten programmes. Indeed each month audience levels across all age groups and demographics are provided. And on occassion we even get results by Platform (and each week they are divided between Multi Channel TV and national TV!)

I am not asking the station managers to go through their data for the top 10s I am asking that the BAI's release the top tens with their usual press release. All stations are quick to provide a press release on the day of the release, the other managerial functions that they need to do are of no interest to the public.

I am just interested in know what shows do well for each station, I have no interest in comparing RTÉ Lyric with Today FM. Though nationally Lyric have a 4% share, while Today FM has a 14%. (But why should I compare such figures?) Local Radio stations are all lumped together, rather then splitting them up between Local and Regional (including 4fm) stations, even then 4fm is out of place as it is aimed at a different audience to other regional stations. (The over 35s at this stage I guess )

BrianD

Elmo wrote: »

I want the top 10 shows from each station, national ones by region to allow regional top 10s not to be over shadowed by the National Radio stations. I want them based on the same basis as the Top 10s issued by RTÉ.

Contact IPSOS MRBI and arrange a subscription. Why do you want these top 10s and what basis would you want them on? Reach, market share? bear in mind you wouldn't be able to compare between stations.

RTÉ Two and TG4 have very different audiences yet we still get their top ten programmes. Indeed each month audience levels across all age groups and demographics are provided. And on occassion we even get results by Platform (and each week they are divided between Multi Channel TV and national TV!)

Not entirely true. Both of these stations are national and therefore comparable if you are using a metric such as All Adults.

I am not asking the station managers to go through their data for the top 10s I am asking that the BAI's release the top tens with their usual press release. All stations are quick to provide a press release on the day of the release, the other managerial functions that they need to do are of no interest to the public.

The JNLRs is advertising research that each station pays for. Other than top level info, it's up to each station to decide what info to release.

I am just interested in know what shows do well for each station, I have no interest in comparing RTÉ Lyric with Today FM. Though nationally Lyric have a 4% share, while Today FM has a 14%. (But why should I compare such figures?) Local Radio stations are all lumped together, rather then splitting them up between Local and Regional (including 4fm) stations, even then 4fm is out of place as it is aimed at a different audience to other regional stations. (The over 35s at this stage I guess )

Elmo

BrianD wrote: »

Contact IPSOS MRBI and arrange a subscription. Why do you want these top 10s and what basis would you want them on? Reach, market share? bear in mind you wouldn't be able to compare between stations.

Not entirely true. Both of these stations are national and therefore comparable if you are using a metric such as All Adults.

That is why am looking for the same info from the national channels on a local basis. E.g. Top 10 programmes for R1 in Cork V Top 10 4FM Programmes in Cork V Top 10 programmes C103/96. 2FM top 10 in Cork V Top 10 Red FM V Top 10 Spin South West in Cork. (All Adults).

I am not looking to compare R1's national Top 10 with LMFMs local top ten.

BrianD

Elmo wrote: »

That is why am looking for the same info from the national channels on a local basis. E.g. Top 10 programmes for R1 in Cork V Top 10 4FM Programmes in Cork V Top 10 programmes C103/96. 2FM top 10 in Cork V Top 10 Red FM V Top 10 Spin South West in Cork. (All Adults).

I am not looking to compare R1's national Top 10 with LMFMs local top ten.

Actually, as it happens I understand that particular analysis and comparison is not permitted at local franchise level.

"Analyses for Publication or for promotional purposes
- Analyses of data may only be based on sub-sample sizes in excess of 200
- No analyses of national (or regional station), ¼ hour data, at local franchise area is permitted
- All analyses are subject to verification and correction by the JNLR Committee
- Analyses which do not satisfy the criteria for publication are for internal use only and in the case of local stations may only refer to the data for that local station.
(See Procedures & Standards for JNLR survey on TNS Info site)."

shabba man

Is there JNLR results this month???

J

heybaby

shabba man wrote: »

Is there JNLR results this month???

J

Yes the 31st