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Dara Calleary's election Literature
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PogMoThoin wrote: »Completely off topic again
Sorry, your right!! I won't reply as I said previously I wouldn't take it off topic! 0 -
HarryPotter41 wrote: »Because to burn the bondholders totally would mean the banks couldn't be financed when needed to keep the banks afloat for the ordinary Irish citizen. Mistakes were made by Fianna fail, mistakes were made by everyone. is there no culpability for the person who buys or builds a house on a mortgage that if they thought rationally that they could not pay. throwing holidays on the credit card and buying as much on the never never as possible?? is that the fault of any government. The very people who complained of the nanny state interfering in their lives are now clamouring that the state interfere in their lives and save many of them from their own mistakes. Many people are in dire straits through no fault of their own, but many should take a look in the mirror and see who wanted the lavish lifestyle that was unaffordable on the wages they were earning. While the banks should have been better regulated and prevented from giving out the loan to wage ratios they did, there is also the question of people taking money that they couldn't afford to pay back even if the good times continued.I freely admit Fianna fail made mistakes and Fianna fail went away from what it stood for for generations, but some people themselves have some portion of the blame to take. Sdaly looking around to blame others for our own problems has always been an Irish trait.
Harry, you have been on here several times trying to twist and turn FF's role in power and unfortunately people aren't buying your spin because they are able to assess the facts themselves. It is getting irritating now as I think that we are both living in different worlds where your life (and interpretation of it) seems to be a lot less harsher than everyone else's because FF actually weren't that bad in power after all.
It's time to set that record straight. FF were the stewards of our economy, our political system. The Irish people delegated that responsiblity to them and they made decisions on our behalf that put individuals (corrupt bankers and developers) interests before the very people that elected them to be the custodians and safeguards of our wellbeing (financial and otherwise). The most galling part of that is the bank guraantee scheme in September 2008 when prior to that analysts and Anglo management were saying that the bank was "fundamentally sound" and that there was "no liquidity problems". The market itself took a different view as Anglo's share price went south, rapid.
To put this in perspective - the Irish people have guaranteed to pay our European master €100bn and all carried out by FF. PLEASE. Saying that FF had to safeguard the depositers is throwing the light away from the real reason of the bank bailout and more of your spin - to protect vested interests in the banks. We know that Cowen was buddy buddy with Seanie both taking a call from him in MArch 2008 and then attending a golf dinner in July where they didn't happen to discuss the Banks falling share price? That is cronyism at its best (or worst depending on your stance). You can spin whatever how you want but facts are facts......
For Bertie to come out in 2007 and criticise the economist Morgan Kelly (who rightly called our boom a bubble) by indicating that naysayers should commit suicide was wrong. He failed to look objectively at the evidence that was presented and analyse the facts in a reasoned and coherent way. Why not? It didn't suit him politically - he put the interest of FF before the interests of the Irish people. That is why we are now saddled with a bailout of €440bn and our financial soverignity p*ssed away for generations to come.
The problems that the Irish people will have to live with for decades to come - unemployment, emigration, falling GNP, broke financial system, crippling debts that the Irish people are going to have to default on as there is no other alternative are the problems of FF and is why FF is gonna suffer for many years to come. These problems are indelibly etched on people's minds and pay slips.....
Bear with me, I don't for a second think FG is gonna save the day either but change for change sake at this stage is a positive step. Inda's call for accessing liquidity for SMEs on one hand and on the other stating that no more money is gonna be pumped into the banks is contradictory in the least. That's another story and more smoke and mirrors.
Anecdotally the stories of Brian Cowen mismanagement of both FF and the Ireland PLC do not position the Irish electorate/people in a favourable light on an international stage or with our European masters (though in fairness, the Irish people never voted for him as Taoiseach). These are sickening and are part of the reason why FF is bad for irish people's health and sanity. These are some of the one's that are doing the rounds;- He faxed the €440bn bank guarantee to the ECB from a pub! This is referenced 4 times in Michael Lewis's article in Vanity Fair.
- He spilt a pint of Guiness on Obama's top Irish adviser at a St. Patricks Day White house gig in 2009.
- His hissy fit in Mount Falcon over breakfast before Xmas as he couldn't get up in time for breakfast.
- His drunken antics at the FF bash in September 2010 and appearing on RTE 1 radio drunk/badly hung over.
With regard to your assertion that we are all responsible for this mess (or FF is less so than everyone else is posting on here) that we find ourselves is more of the arrogance of the intellect that a previous poster referred to. There are people that didn't engage in excess or make lavish lifestyle decisions that ordinary decent people are now paying the price for because our political masters at the time were irresponsible in their stewardship role. For those people that invested their nest eggs in BoI, AIB & Anglo and who are now caught in a double whammy where they are also paying increased taxes (direct & indirect) is WRONG.
Please see link below to an honest decision made by honest people where the political stewards, Fianna Fail, failed in their stewardship of the national interest.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/property/2011/0217/1224290016194.html
Unfortunately this is only a sign of times to come where a lot more innocent people who didn't live lavish lifestyles etc will undergo tremendous hardship at the hands of the state & state controlled enterprises due to mismanagement of the FF party of Ireland PLC.
With regard to Dara Calleary - he is a decent hard working politician and representative who has delivered some (and maybe over credited himself for other projects
) good for Mayo. However, I have no doubt that he is no more or no less hard working, decent as the rest of the field. I am sure MM if elected will show the same dedication and commitment in developing Mayo's infrastructure - she has a vested interest in this hard work (as Dara or any other politician has) as it is the basis on which she will be relected at the next GE. Personally, I would prefer Calleary unfortunately he is with the wrong party, as for the reasons outlined.
Well Harry, my rant has not been so much directed at FF and their (mis)management of the good of the Irish people but defending the indefensible. I think its time you come clean and confirm if you in any way benefit from defending FF and DC. Or maybe put another way, have you anything personally to lose if DC doesn't get elected?
The answer to that might shed some light on your unwavering support of FF......0 -
Harry, you have been on here several times trying to twist and turn FF's role in power and unfortunately people aren't buying your spin because they are able to assess the facts themselves. It is getting irritating now as I think that we are both living in different worlds where your life (and interpretation of it) seems to be a lot less harsher than everyone else's because FF actually weren't that bad in power after all.
It's time to set that record straight. FF were the stewards of our economy, our political system. The Irish people delegated that responsiblity to them and they made decisions on our behalf that put individuals (corrupt bankers and developers) interests before the very people that elected them to be the custodians and safeguards of our wellbeing (financial and otherwise). The most galling part of that is the bank guraantee scheme in September 2008 when prior to that analysts and Anglo management were saying that the bank was "fundamentally sound" and that there was "no liquidity problems". The market itself took a different view as Anglo's share price went south, rapid.
To put this in perspective - the Irish people have guaranteed to pay our European master €100bn and all carried out by FF. PLEASE. Saying that FF had to safeguard the depositers is throwing the light away from the real reason of the bank bailout and more of your spin - to protect vested interests in the banks. We know that Cowen was buddy buddy with Seanie both taking a call from him in MArch 2008 and then attending a golf dinner in July where they didn't happen to discuss the Banks falling share price? That is cronyism at its best (or worst depending on your stance). You can spin whatever how you want but facts are facts......
For Bertie to come out in 2007 and criticise the economist Morgan Kelly (who rightly called our boom a bubble) by indicating that naysayers should commit suicide was wrong. He failed to look objectively at the evidence that was presented and analyse the facts in a reasoned and coherent way. Why not? It didn't suit him politically - he put the interest of FF before the interests of the Irish people. That is why we are now saddled with a bailout of €440bn and our financial soverignity p*ssed away for generations to come.
The problems that the Irish people will have to live with for decades to come - unemployment, emigration, falling GNP, broke financial system, crippling debts that the Irish people are going to have to default on as there is no other alternative are the problems of FF and is why FF is gonna suffer for many years to come. These problems are indelibly etched on people's minds and pay slips.....
Bear with me, I don't for a second think FG is gonna save the day either but change for change sake at this stage is a positive step. Inda's call for accessing liquidity for SMEs on one hand and on the other stating that no more money is gonna be pumped into the banks is contradictory in the least. That's another story and more smoke and mirrors.
Anecdotally the stories of Brian Cowen mismanagement of both FF and the Ireland PLC do not position the Irish electorate/people in a favourable light on an international stage or with our European masters (though in fairness, the Irish people never voted for him as Taoiseach). These are sickening and are part of the reason why FF is bad for irish people's health and sanity. These are some of the one's that are doing the rounds;- He faxed the €440bn bank guarantee to the ECB from a pub! This is referenced 4 times in Michael Lewis's article in Vanity Fair.
- He spilt a pint of Guiness on Obama's top Irish adviser at a St. Patricks Day White house gig in 2009.
- His hissy fit in Mount Falcon over breakfast before Xmas as he couldn't get up in time for breakfast.
- His drunken antics at the FF bash in September 2010 and appearing on RTE 1 radio drunk/badly hung over.
With regard to your assertion that we are all responsible for this mess (or FF is less so than everyone else is posting on here) that we find ourselves is more of the arrogance of the intellect that a previous poster referred to. There are people that didn't engage in excess or make lavish lifestyle decisions that ordinary decent people are now paying the price for because our political masters at the time were irresponsible in their stewardship role. For those people that invested their nest eggs in BoI, AIB & Anglo and who are now caught in a double whammy where they are also paying increased taxes (direct & indirect) is WRONG.
Please see link below to an honest decision made by honest people where the political stewards, Fianna Fail, failed in their stewardship of the national interest.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/property/2011/0217/1224290016194.html
Unfortunately this is only a sign of times to come where a lot more innocent people who didn't live lavish lifestyles etc will undergo tremendous hardship at the hands of the state & state controlled enterprises due to mismanagement of the FF party of Ireland PLC.
With regard to Dara Calleary - he is a decent hard working politician and representative who has delivered some (and maybe over credited himself for other projects) good for Mayo. However, I have no doubt that he is no more or no less hard working, decent as the rest of the field. I am sure MM if elected will show the same dedication and commitment in developing Mayo's infrastructure - she has a vested interest in this hard work (as Dara or any other politician has) as it is the basis on which she will be relected at the next GE. Personally, I would prefer Calleary unfortunately he is with the wrong party, as for the reasons outlined.
Well Harry, my rant has not been so much directed at FF and their (mis)management of the good of the Irish people but defending the indefensible. I think its time you come clean and confirm if you in any way benefit from defending FF and DC. Or maybe put another way, have you anything personally to lose if DC doesn't get elected?
The answer to that might shed some light on your unwavering support of FF......
You have interpreted my whole statement as defending the indefensible, I am quite readily admitting that many things were done wrong, I have just said that there are plenty of things that an element of the population of this country have to accept responsibility for as well. there are many others hurting through no fault of their own.
Unsubstantiated rumours I won't even comment on. I will however say that Cowens leadership was disastrous at times. Aherns dicatatorship within the party was also disastrous as it led to consensus rather than debate, which probably led to some of the terrible decisions taken.
As for coming clean, what are you trying to imply by your question? What to your mind do you think I have to lose? My life will go on next week in exactly the same way as it has this week. I will lose nothing.0 -
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HarryPotter41 wrote: »I did answer the question, in the very last line, I have nothing to lose by his not being elected. I will still be going to my job come next week, I will still be involved in every other thing I am involved in. I happen to have been a life long member of Fianna Fail. That is the only sin I am guilty of.
I am not trying to say Fianna Fail did not make mistakes, they did, they made serious mistakes at times. All I am saying is that it is frustrating that people do not see that they themselves may have overreached, including my own friends. Some of the mortgages they have are horrendous, proper regulation would have prevented them from getting these loans, but how some of them ever planned on paying them back even in the good times is a mystery to me ( or else I am underpaid ). The grassroots of the party had been screaming stop for a long time, not listened by those at the top, a lot of people are angry within the party. We do however look at the alternatives and see not a lot of hope there either.
The realities have Hogwarts big time, but I also realise we are up the creek and nobody brought the paddle and that taxes must go up and cuts must be made. I am down a lot of money, my drive to work is being crippled by oil prices on top of that, but I realise I have to pay, not saying someone has to pay, just not me.
If you are not happy with my answer to having a personal interest in DC's re-election then pm me, I will answer more clearly there, I am not about to display my personal life in the nuthouse that passes for boards.ie
Harry, where has your criticism been for the past number of years? Constructive insight like this is what the party needed and even as a previous poster has referenced DC standing shoulder to shoulder with Cowen after the first abortive heave smacks of shortsightedness on his part, given that one from his own constituency could see things were not right internally?
For me its too late to shout close the gate once the horse has bolted. De damage has been done. The fact that you have been a life long Fianna Fail supporter (Or even FG, Lab etc.) is what is wrong with Irish political life......why can we not assess candidates/parties on their relative merits and vote accordingly? May this should be your political awakening and cathartic moment....to reach out for a new political begining and understanding? Though when one considers MM, MR O'Mahony & Inda, maybe not!
I do think that FF's contrition will be repaying Inda's forthcoming gaff's, of which there will be a few though not maybe of the same magnitude as Cowen etc. in full frontal assualts in the media/Dail. The economic and political backdrop is so serious that it's the perfect landscape for a Dan Quayle like reincarnation......:pac:......:pac:......:pac:.....0 -
Harry, where has your criticism been for the past number of years? Constructive insight like this is what the party needed and even as a previous poster has referenced DC standing shoulder to shoulder with Cowen after the first abortive heave smacks of shortsightedness on his part, given that one from his own constituency could see things were not right internally?
For me its too late to shout close the gate once the horse has bolted. De damage has been done. The fact that you have been a life long Fianna Fail supporter (Or even FG, Lab etc.) is what is wrong with Irish political life......why can we not assess candidates/parties on their relative merits and vote accordingly? May this should be your political awakening and cathartic moment....to reach out for a new political begining and understanding? Though when one considers MM, MR O'Mahony & Inda, maybe not!
I do think that FF's contrition will be repaying Inda's forthcoming gaff's, of which there will be a few though not maybe of the same magnitude as Cowen etc. in full frontal assualts in the media/Dail. The economic and political backdrop is so serious that it's the perfect landscape for a Dan Quayle like reincarnation......:pac:......:pac:......:pac:.....
I can tell you now that the grassroots have been screaming stop for quite a long time, unfortunately under Ahern that kind of grassroots connection was lost. It has been a long time since my criticism and the criticism of others has been voiced internally. I do judge parties by policies, Fine Gael are not and never will be a party I can see myself supporting purely and simply because of their middle class policies. Labour was the closest ideologically to me after Fianna Fail but this election has switched me off them completely. It might interest you to know that on three occasions over the last 20 years I have voted for non Fianna Fail candidates, so don't assume I don't think before I vote.
So there has been internal dissent. And it will continue after this election because the party lost its way and disconnected from its core vote.
As for DC supporting Cowen, it did worry me at the time but then again, he was being loyal to the man who took a chance on his ability ( and to my mind was a good gamble as he has shown himself to be streets ahead of some of the people who took for the hills, I mean, retired, this time out ) and some might say it was stupid, but which of us at some stage hasn't stayed loyal to someone who gave us a break when others might not. It could be seen as stupid or a decent quality to show loyalty as thanks despite what it might do to your own reputation. Sadly very little of that left in live now never mind politics.
So I am politically awake, well and truly, if you knew me outside of the forum of boards you would know I am outspoken on lots of things but Fianna Fail is still closest to my philosphy of life believe or not, and that is done through thinking things out.
Btw, we must be miles off topic by now.0 -
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