As a non-drinker, did you ever draw the ire of friends who do drink?

Amtmann

So there I was in UL last Thursday night having a few beverages with some college friends. I don't drink alcohol and I enjoy myself perfectly fine without it, typically having a diet coke or something like that instead.

All of a sudden two of my friends lay into me jokingly about me sitting there on the 'moral high ground', watching disapprovingly as they get drunk. Now, I actually have no moral issue as such with alcohol.* I don't drink because I don't like the taste of alcohol, I don't like the physical effect it has on me, I don't like the empty calories, I don't need it to enjoy myself, and I just don't feel the desire to drink full stop. I never took a pledge, and my decision isn't religious or moral... it's just my preference and I never bring it up when out unless I am asked about it.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting the way I was sort of rounded on in the pub that night and wanted to know if any other non-drinkers ever have that thrown at them and, if yes, what you think of the whole thing.

* That said, I do find it mildly pathetic that so many people 'need' alcohol to come out of their shells, approach women, or 'have a laugh'. Privately I pity their lack of native confidence, but I keep this to myself. I know I'm in the minority and I just accept it. I'm not a crusader.

cantdecide

Anything from feigned 'I really respect you man. I wish I could do it like' to "you think you're f*****g great don't you". Non drinking 101- watch the body language, don't bring it up and if it does come up, move the conversation along ASAP.

ringleader

My friend is in AA and is convinced that anyone who watches someone elses drinking habits and tries to get them to drink has a problem with alcohol.

He has a point. If someone doesn't drink, what business is it of yours like?

Say you're allergic to it - that should stop the slagging.

And anyway they don't sound like great people to hang around with if they're like that.

Sunnyisland

It never has happened me yet, but i would rekon some,but not all of these drinking friends will have doubts about there own drinking behaviour and see you as a threat to there drinking, if you can do it then they can and should do it-and they dont ,unfortunately the only answer to these friends is to avoid them.

Amtmann

Thanks for the replies. I may have given a rather poor impression of some of my friends, but that was not my intention. We're all in our late 20s, so no peer pressure. I just never noticed this sort of defensiveness before among those who drink (including those who drink moderately)... I had always reckoned that non-drinkers would be the defensive ones because we are a tiny minority of Irish people, and therefore 'odd ones'.

I agree though with the posts so far. Interestingly, one of my friends asked me, "seen as how you don't drink, how do you escape?"
I actually hadn't a clue what she meant by this at first and asked her to explain. "Escape from the **** of the day", she said. So alcohol is definitely an aid to her. Which is fair enough I suppose. I just don't 'get' it.

languagenerd

Ringleader is right, people who drink a lot expect everyone else to drink with them. It's a kind of "Ah, sure, if everyone's doing it, it can't be bad, right?" mentality.

With my own friends, it's grand, I'm still friends with the people I grew up with - I knew them when none of us drank, I just never started. Some of my nmore recent friends drink more but it's never really been an issue. The "Oh, fair play, I wish I could do it" reaction is common, making me want to reply "Then why DON'T you?!" :rolleyes:

I have had people say "Sure we can tell people you're drinking vodka" when I order 7up, that irritates me... and someone once said "Oh, well, if you can't even trust yourself with one glass of wine..." which really annoyed me. It's not about that, and anyway, it's none of their business!

Tremolo, it does sound to me that your friends "rounded on you" because your non-drinking makes them more concious of how much they're drinking... Which brings us back to the defensive point!

Lord TSC

I've talked about this before but may as well again; sadly, I've now lost contact with all my schoolyard friends. They dwindled away slowly. At about sixteen, I started alienating alot of them with my attitudes towards Ireland's drinking culture. I know for a fact that two of my closest friends startedgoing around saying vicious things about me cause I opted out of going to my Grad. Cause I did, one or two other non-drinkers in the group did as well.

Then when we went our different ways to college and uni, the only group meetings organised were booze ups which turned into horrible nights for me, so I simply refused to attend. I'd try to organise cinema trips or even just coming round to my house for a meal and a chat but if alcohol and getting smashed wasn't involved, no one was interested. I had one friend try and spike my drink at a birthday party and haven't spoken to him since. I will say there was one of my friends who was a heavy drinker but who respected me for working hard, respected me for the reasons I didn't drink and we still talk from time to time. And despite his drinking habits, I've got zero problem with him either. He's one of the nicest guys on the planet and we share a friendship based on respect.

Actually, I ended up finding that people had problems with me cause I was the "parent friendly" friend. I didn't drink or smoke, I worked hard in school, prioritising education of girls and booze, and I was sensible with money. That seemed to breed a lot of jealousy in a few of my friends. I remember one telling me that his father often said that he wished I was his son.

Sadly, now I'm also drawing the ire of my father as well. Last week, my father went on a binge and said some horrible and vile stuff towards me, including that he was ashamed to have me as a kid, since I wasn't like normal people. He berrated me for thinking I'm better than everyone else (which I really don't; if anything, I have crippling self-confidence issues) and said he wished he could have my (alcoholic) nephew as a son instead.

The funny thing is now that everytime he walks into a room, I walk out. I simply have no desire to deal with him. Now he's mouthing off that he'll never talk to me again if I don't apologise to him. Presumably I am to apologise cause I'm insulted and disgusted by his behaviour as of late (there's more to it than I'm discussing here, mind; this bust up has been coming for years), but that one boozy, horrible night has just pushed me over the edge with him and I've pretty much severed my relationship with my father now.

Satanta

One evening at a work gathering (in the pub) one of the lads looked at my cup of coffee as if he'd never seen one before. He honestly looked confused. I had to say "its a cup of coffee John, you had one just like it earlier"

I have to say, it's never been an issue with my friends or even some of boards meetups etc. My best friend will ask "so are you drinking tonight" sometimes, I'll say yes maybe one/no and that's that. We generally socialise by dinner/movies anyway. Other friends just don't say anything about it, they wouldn't drink heavily though

It always makes me think of people in restaurants slagging off your food though, I don't think people would make such a big fuss about what's on someone else's plate as they do in glasses


edit: no, there was this one guy a friend of mine sort of knew from seeing in the pub, he made a big deal out of it. What are you drinking, what do you mean just coke, coke and what, why don't you drink, do you go crazy ha ha ha
I was having none of it and he finally got pissed off when I wasn't finding him hilarious and tried to insult me and left
:rolleyes:

Connavar

Tremelo wrote: »

* That said, I do find it mildly pathetic that so many people 'need' alcohol to come out of their shells, approach women, or 'have a laugh'. Privately I pity their lack of native confidence, but I keep this to myself. I know I'm in the minority and I just accept it. I'm not a crusader.

I just have to point this out since everyone else seems to be ignoring it. Maybe this belief was showing to them on said night, which of course will cause them to become edgy

Amtmann

Connavar wrote: »

I just have to point this out since everyone else seems to be ignoring it. Maybe this belief was showing to them on said night, which of course will cause them to become edgy

Not at all actually, as none of them were drunk. We were all having a chat, alcohol was not on my mind at all. That's why I was so surprised by it when it was brought up so suddenly. In the event that my friends were going out to get drunk, or on a heavy drinking session, I simply would not go.

ebixa82

Tremelo wrote: »

So there I was in UL last Thursday night having a few beverages with some college friends. I don't drink alcohol and I enjoy myself perfectly fine without it, typically having a diet coke or something like that instead.

All of a sudden two of my friends lay into me jokingly about me sitting there on the 'moral high ground', watching disapprovingly as they get drunk. Now, I actually have no moral issue as such with alcohol.* I don't drink because I don't like the taste of alcohol, I don't like the physical effect it has on me, I don't like the empty calories, I don't need it to enjoy myself, and I just don't feel the desire to drink full stop. I never took a pledge, and my decision isn't religious or moral... it's just my preference and I never bring it up when out unless I am asked about it.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting the way I was sort of rounded on in the pub that night and wanted to know if any other non-drinkers ever have that thrown at them and, if yes, what you think of the whole thing.

* That said, I do find it mildly pathetic that so many people 'need' alcohol to come out of their shells, approach women, or 'have a laugh'. Privately I pity their lack of native confidence, but I keep this to myself. I know I'm in the minority and I just accept it. I'm not a crusader.

The piece in bold. You don't have to say it for people to pick up on your attitudes!

Tags

I tend to go sober for months, over 2 years at one stage. I can take it or leave it. During dry spells I've gotten the usual "Dry arse" comments but thankfully it was only a bit of friendly slaggin' Luckily I haven't been accosted over it or had them try to spike my Diet Coke.

alchemist33

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The funny thing is now that everytime he walks into a room, I walk out. I simply have no desire to deal with him. Now he's mouthing off that he'll never talk to me again if I don't apologise to him. Presumably I am to apologise cause I'm insulted and disgusted by his behaviour as of late (there's more to it than I'm discussing here, mind; this bust up has been coming for years), but that one boozy, horrible night has just pushed me over the edge with him and I've pretty much severed my relationship with my father now.

Sometimes you just have to look out for yourself. You're right to take the initiative.
Re the OP, it used to happen all the time in college, but usually light-heartedly. Once, when cycling home from the pub, and someone nearly got hit by a car, I was told "You're the only sober one. You have to take charge."
It's worse when abroad. I got a few "You're Irish, and you don't drink?!?!" from fellow travellers.

AndyC555

Im also an Irishman who doesnt drink. It has not been an issue among friends of mine and they have never got on my case about it. I simply told them I dont find alcohol nice to drink so I prefer a Cidona or Club Lemon when Im out. They're happy for the lift from the designated driver also :-)

The only issue I have had about being a non drinker is from people who dont know me or have just met me. They express utter disbelief that someone doesn't drink.

I do pity people that absolutely require alcohol in their system in order to have a good time. I cringe when I hear people taking about "going out tonight and getting pissed, I cant wait".

What causes me to frown with slight distaste is the young female who cant remember a thing about the previous 24 hours. I mean anybody could have done anything to that girl and they show no shame in that. Its something I will never get my head around.

seanybiker

Im a fairly heavy drinker but on the couple of occasions I went out and decided not to drink I got a bit of a ribbing from the lads I be drinking with. One night I called into the pub and left me motorbike outside and asked for a coke. The barman, who I know well, wanted to know my reasons to why I wanted a coke and wouldnt buy a pint. Seriously. Couldnt believe it, In the end one of the girls I was with pulled him on it and gave him some ear lashing because its none of his business what I drink or dont drink. That night I fecked off upto a different pub and had a few quiet sups on me own. Other nights I have gone out planning on not drinking and then falling in the door.
I wouldn't be one of the people that needs drink to come out of my shell. I'd talk to a wall if I thought Id get a laugh off it.
I also find it kind of ignorant to tell people they should be drinking or should be doing this and that. If people dont want to drink then more power to them.

Ebsis

Having read all the posts I can identify with most of them. It´s not that I don´t drink at all, but I definitely drink very little so I mostly consider myself non-drinker(last year I had about 3 drinks in the whole year, so you can see am not a big drinker).

It has never been an issue for me, but has been for few of my friends that I´m not friends with anymore. Not because I have given up the friendship, but because they have.
We used to go out often and everytime when they had few drinks on them they started on me not drinking. Saying that have a few drinks, you are very boring when you don´t drink, you are spoiling our night when not drinking and finally you are judging us. For the few first times this came as a shock because we had such a fun time and then suddenly I heard this.

I can honestly say that I never comment on anyones drinking or I don´t have a problem with anyones drinking, nor do I judge. So needles to say I wasn´t asked out anymore. I felt very hurt by this especially when I considered one of the girls a good friend of mine. I was suprised of her sudden meanness.

I like going out whether it´s to the pub or where ever and I never have problems with people who like to drink. But I have got funny mix of responses from, "are you recovering alcoholic" to "just have one drink".

I have tried to explain to people that I just don´t feel like drinking. Like some others here, I´m not too fond of the taste of drink, I don´t like the effect, rather buy new shoes than put the money on alcohol etc.

I have no idea why not drinking is such a big deal for some!

cantdecide

seanybiker wrote: »

Im a fairly heavy drinker but on the couple of occasions I went out and decided not to drink I got a bit of a ribbing from the lads I be drinking with. One night I called into the pub and left me motorbike outside and asked for a coke. The barman, who I know well, wanted to know my reasons to why I wanted a coke and wouldnt buy a pint. Seriously. Couldnt believe it, In the end one of the girls I was with pulled him on it and gave him some ear lashing because its none of his business what I drink or dont drink. That night I fecked off upto a different pub and had a few quiet sups on me own. Other nights I have gone out planning on not drinking and then falling in the door.
I wouldn't be one of the people that needs drink to come out of my shell. I'd talk to a wall if I thought Id get a laugh off it.
I also find it kind of ignorant to tell people they should be drinking or should be doing this and that. If people dont want to drink then more power to them.

I must say it's nice to be fresh-headed when I crank up the blackbird for a Sunday mornin jaunt up the Vee when the roads are quiet.

sickdullplain

I've lost 'friends' since i gave up drink. Anywhere outside Ireland and I would have lost them because of my drinking...argh

Sunnyisland

My real friends are relieved that I don't drink any more. They were very worried about me. Some of them drink too much at times. Some drink "normally". They know I can't. It just works. There are a lot of things I can do that they can't. We are each unique. I am learning to play the hand I have been dealt and let them play theirs.

willielovesall

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I've talked about this before but may as well again; sadly, I've now lost contact with all my schoolyard friends. They dwindled away slowly. At about sixteen, I started alienating alot of them with my attitudes towards Ireland's drinking culture. I know for a fact that two of my closest friends startedgoing around saying vicious things about me cause I opted out of going to my Grad. Cause I did, one or two other non-drinkers in the group did as well.

Then when we went our different ways to college and uni, the only group meetings organised were booze ups which turned into horrible nights for me, so I simply refused to attend. I'd try to organise cinema trips or even just coming round to my house for a meal and a chat but if alcohol and getting smashed wasn't involved, no one was interested. I had one friend try and spike my drink at a birthday party and haven't spoken to him since. I will say there was one of my friends who was a heavy drinker but who respected me for working hard, respected me for the reasons I didn't drink and we still talk from time to time. And despite his drinking habits, I've got zero problem with him either. He's one of the nicest guys on the planet and we share a friendship based on respect.

Actually, I ended up finding that people had problems with me cause I was the "parent friendly" friend. I didn't drink or smoke, I worked hard in school, prioritising education of girls and booze, and I was sensible with money. That seemed to breed a lot of jealousy in a few of my friends. I remember one telling me that his father often said that he wished I was his son.

Sadly, now I'm also drawing the ire of my father as well. Last week, my father went on a binge and said some horrible and vile stuff towards me, including that he was ashamed to have me as a kid, since I wasn't like normal people. He berrated me for thinking I'm better than everyone else (which I really don't; if anything, I have crippling self-confidence issues) and said he wished he could have my (alcoholic) nephew as a son instead.

The funny thing is now that everytime he walks into a room, I walk out. I simply have no desire to deal with him. Now he's mouthing off that he'll never talk to me again if I don't apologise to him. Presumably I am to apologise cause I'm insulted and disgusted by his behaviour as of late (there's more to it than I'm discussing here, mind; this bust up has been coming for years), but that one boozy, horrible night has just pushed me over the edge with him and I've pretty much severed my relationship with my father now.

Fair play for the honesty you have shown in this post. I am only in my early 20s but I feel that the whole world revolves around alcohol. Everyone has to get smashed to have a good time. I used to drink but now I am just staring to stop. In the last 3years I have been out drinking less and less and I know this has led to a breakdown of my relationship with my friends.

Now that I stopped drinking, there has been so many benefits! My thinking has become razor sharp, my confidence has soared and I no longer have embarrassing memories of the night before.

CMpunked

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Sadly, now I'm also drawing the ire of my father as well. Last week, my father went on a binge and said some horrible and vile stuff towards me, including that he was ashamed to have me as a kid, since I wasn't like normal people. He berrated me for thinking I'm better than everyone else (which I really don't; if anything, I have crippling self-confidence issues) and said he wished he could have my (alcoholic) nephew as a son instead.

The funny thing is now that everytime he walks into a room, I walk out. I simply have no desire to deal with him. Now he's mouthing off that he'll never talk to me again if I don't apologise to him. Presumably I am to apologise cause I'm insulted and disgusted by his behaviour as of late (there's more to it than I'm discussing here, mind; this bust up has been coming for years), but that one boozy, horrible night has just pushed me over the edge with him and I've pretty much severed my relationship with my father now.

Wow TSC, what a heart breaking story.
I symapthise with you as i basically had near the exact same situation with my own dad not too long ago.
I know how it can feel to be belittled in a similar fashion, the confusion is only made worse by the idea that i nearly cling onto the hope that what he says isnt meant but is more fueled by the drink.

I know from receiving countless texts off one very good friend of mine (who seems to reach out to me to share his problems after he has had a night drinking) That says sometimes what he says about other people to me in those texts are only cover ups to what he really feels about himself.
Maybe this could too be true for both of our fathers.

Lord TSC

Thanks for the nice replies.

Truth be told, I've stopped looking or making excuses for him though. For years, I tried to rationalise his behaviours and his mood swings and tried to make excuses for him, but it's reached the point now where I simply couldn't care about him any more.

It's now been seven weeks since I lasted talked to him. This message is brought on by an incident which occured a few nights ago. I worry it's straying off topic; it's not strictly about alcohol and being a non-drinker; it just so happens that was one of the final straws in a long building problem and is one of the many things he mouths off about. I've also beena tad reluctant to put some of this online in case anyone discovered my identity. I know (at least, I think) you've met him the once CMPunked, while waiting for the tickets, right? And the annoying thing is people think he's this stand up guy. From time to time, people will say "Oh, he's a great Dad" because they know his public persona, and I'll just grin and keep quiet, not correcting them about what he's like in private. Still, I really need to let off some steam here.

Since the last post, things have been something of a rollercoaster. There's days when he will come home and storm off to his bedroom, not saying a word to anyone. These are now the good days since it means we don't have to deal with his nonsense. We can simply pretend he isn't there. On other days, he will storm into the house and start screaming abuse at my mother, being abusive and insulting. I know this is cowardly, to an extent, but I have no interest in confronting him or screaming back; it's what he wants. Twice in the past I've responded his his comments, and what he does is he takes half of what you say and twists it to suit his own means, and ignores the other other half compeltly, dismissing it as brainwashing or nonsense. I feel guilty constantly for not confronting him but at the same time, I realise it's futile. There's no point.

There's multiple problems there. For one, he's a raging hypocrite. He'll go on that my mother's cooking is rotten and she's trying to poison him, that she's responsible for his obseity and his health problems, and tell her to shove her food where the sun don't shine. Then she won't cook for him and he'll launch off on a tirade about how she should be cooking constantly for him, and how dare she not. (That's a typical Drogheda attitude imo though; insult someone and then be angry when they won't do what you tell them). He'll proclaim he wants to do whatever he wants when he wants and we should do the same. We should get on with our lifes and try and ignore him cause he wants nothing to do with us. Then he'll be furious when we actually do that.

Case and point, the incident I refered to above. It was my 24th Birthday on Monday. To celebrate, we got a takeaway. Now, we didn't want him there. He has been vile to me so it would have been a rank atmosphere to have him sitting there. But we asked if he wanted any, cause that's who we are. We're not bad people. His response was along the lines of "Shove it. I don't want any. I hate you all, so why would I eat with you. I hope you all choke to death on the food." We took this to mean no.

Then the food comes, me, my mom and bro sit down to eat, and he comes barging into the room, screaming how dare we eat without him (should point out, he's not had a meal with us for close to 8 weeks now. He goes on about how he wants healthy food but insists on eating McDonalds and KFC for every meal. We do up salads or meals with fresh veg and he throws them in the bin). He starts abusing me, and making grand proclimations about how he thinks we are scum and he hopes we all drop dead. Happy Birthday, huh?

This is becoming common place now, annoyingly. In the past few weeks, he has said of me...
* I should bugger off out of the house and emigrate if possible.
* He resented me from when I was three months old.
* He doesn't care what we think of him, since his third son will take care of him (Oh yeah, did I mention that? Apparently he has an illigitamate son, a raving alcoholic drug dealer who is in and out of prison).
* He would rather any of my friends as sons and wish I'd just drop dead.
* I'm a sneaky scumbag cause I took my brother into Dublin to a show one night after he had messed around on orgainsing a birthday trip. We had asked if he wanted to go on this new night out, he gave his usual response so we went without him, only to be abused when we arrived him.

...al this, I should point out, when he thinks I can't hear him. He's actually not said any of the above to my face, just screams it when he's fighting with mom and thinks I can't hear.

Sigh, ok. There's a lot more but that's all I've got time for right now. Need to get back to doing some work.

It doesn't upset me anymore. And I've given up on ever reconciling with him. He's said too much hurtful stuff about me, spreading rumours about me to old school friends and so on, while I've done nothing to him but be silent in disgust and tried to move on without him. The truth is he's just a ****er of a man. Sometimes, people just are and you can't justify it. He wants to have zero responsibilities, doesn't want to have a wife and kids, but wants to have all the perks of having a family and wants everyone to think he's magnificient. Ultimatly, I think that's his real problem with me. Not the lack of drinking or anything like that. There are three people in this world who know what he's really like, and he can't stand that. He can tell others all these lies and make believe stories, but we don't buy them any more and that freaks him out, so he just tries to bully us instead.

I'm not looking for sympathy from this post. Just some space to vent.

Sunnyisland

Thanks for sharing this,hope you feel a little better,Do you think maybe you should get some professional help in dealing with this ongoing situation,unfortunately it sounds like it can only get worse which is no good to anybody.

Lord TSC

RE: Professional Help...

You mean like visit a shrink? It's been suggested but to be honest, I find venting online like that every now and again probably helps as much. 99% of the time, I'm pretty upbeat and optamistic and I genuinely don't let him bring me down. Amazingly, I am happy and lucky cause even though I have a bad father, I have a mother and brother who I have become so close to as a result and who are such amazing people. Most of the time, we can continue on in our lifes, happy.

Besides, this way I can pent up all my frustrations and then one day go on a murderous rampage, all the while screaming "WHY!?! WHY DIDN'T YOU LOVE ME DADDY!?!" >:D

Joking aside, it strikes me I may have slightly derailed this topic and sorry if I did

dabestman1

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Thanks for the nice replies.

Truth be told, I've stopped looking or making excuses for him though. For years, I tried to rationalise his behaviours and his mood swings and tried to make excuses for him, but it's reached the point now where I simply couldn't care about him any more.

It's now been seven weeks since I lasted talked to him. This message is brought on by an incident which occured a few nights ago. I worry it's straying off topic; it's not strictly about alcohol and being a non-drinker; it just so happens that was one of the final straws in a long building problem and is one of the many things he mouths off about. I've also beena tad reluctant to put some of this online in case anyone discovered my identity. I know (at least, I think) you've met him the once CMPunked, while waiting for the tickets, right? And the annoying thing is people think he's this stand up guy. From time to time, people will say "Oh, he's a great Dad" because they know his public persona, and I'll just grin and keep quiet, not correcting them about what he's like in private. Still, I really need to let off some steam here.

Since the last post, things have been something of a rollercoaster. There's days when he will come home and storm off to his bedroom, not saying a word to anyone. These are now the good days since it means we don't have to deal with his nonsense. We can simply pretend he isn't there. On other days, he will storm into the house and start screaming abuse at my mother, being abusive and insulting. I know this is cowardly, to an extent, but I have no interest in confronting him or screaming back; it's what he wants. Twice in the past I've responded his his comments, and what he does is he takes half of what you say and twists it to suit his own means, and ignores the other other half compeltly, dismissing it as brainwashing or nonsense. I feel guilty constantly for not confronting him but at the same time, I realise it's futile. There's no point.

There's multiple problems there. For one, he's a raging hypocrite. He'll go on that my mother's cooking is rotten and she's trying to poison him, that she's responsible for his obseity and his health problems, and tell her to shove her food where the sun don't shine. Then she won't cook for him and he'll launch off on a tirade about how she should be cooking constantly for him, and how dare she not. (That's a typical Drogheda attitude imo though; insult someone and then be angry when they won't do what you tell them). He'll proclaim he wants to do whatever he wants when he wants and we should do the same. We should get on with our lifes and try and ignore him cause he wants nothing to do with us. Then he'll be furious when we actually do that.

Case and point, the incident I refered to above. It was my 24th Birthday on Monday. To celebrate, we got a takeaway. Now, we didn't want him there. He has been vile to me so it would have been a rank atmosphere to have him sitting there. But we asked if he wanted any, cause that's who we are. We're not bad people. His response was along the lines of "Shove it. I don't want any. I hate you all, so why would I eat with you. I hope you all choke to death on the food." We took this to mean no.

Then the food comes, me, my mom and bro sit down to eat, and he comes barging into the room, screaming how dare we eat without him (should point out, he's not had a meal with us for close to 8 weeks now. He goes on about how he wants healthy food but insists on eating McDonalds and KFC for every meal. We do up salads or meals with fresh veg and he throws them in the bin). He starts abusing me, and making grand proclimations about how he thinks we are scum and he hopes we all drop dead. Happy Birthday, huh?

This is becoming common place now, annoyingly. In the past few weeks, he has said of me...
* I should bugger off out of the house and emigrate if possible.
* He resented me from when I was three months old.
* He doesn't care what we think of him, since his third son will take care of him (Oh yeah, did I mention that? Apparently he has an illigitamate son, a raving alcoholic drug dealer who is in and out of prison).
* He would rather any of my friends as sons and wish I'd just drop dead.
* I'm a sneaky scumbag cause I took my brother into Dublin to a show one night after he had messed around on orgainsing a birthday trip. We had asked if he wanted to go on this new night out, he gave his usual response so we went without him, only to be abused when we arrived him.

...al this, I should point out, when he thinks I can't hear him. He's actually not said any of the above to my face, just screams it when he's fighting with mom and thinks I can't hear.

Sigh, ok. There's a lot more but that's all I've got time for right now. Need to get back to doing some work.

It doesn't upset me anymore. And I've given up on ever reconciling with him. He's said too much hurtful stuff about me, spreading rumours about me to old school friends and so on, while I've done nothing to him but be silent in disgust and tried to move on without him. The truth is he's just a ****er of a man. Sometimes, people just are and you can't justify it. He wants to have zero responsibilities, doesn't want to have a wife and kids, but wants to have all the perks of having a family and wants everyone to think he's magnificient. Ultimatly, I think that's his real problem with me. Not the lack of drinking or anything like that. There are three people in this world who know what he's really like, and he can't stand that. He can tell others all these lies and make believe stories, but we don't buy them any more and that freaks him out, so he just tries to bully us instead.

I'm not looking for sympathy from this post. Just some space to vent.

Sad situation, hope it gets better for you.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I find the ones who make a really big deal of it are those who are scared of you seeing them drunk whilst sober

emzolita

I havn't been drunk since I was 16 (im 24 now) and my friends are all grand with it as I go out most weekends, and will go dancing and get up on karaoke etc. But last year a friend of mine was really drunk and got into an argument with me, then suddenly started saying quite viscously "you're just boring, you're too sensible and you're way too boring for someone who's 23!" That was a bit hurtful, as I know she usually never mentions my not drinking.

That was really the only thing that has ever been said to me like that. I don't drink cause I don't like the feeling of being drunk, and I'm on epilepsy meds too, so can't medically drink that much anyhow.

merlie

Oh yes, I have had something similar happen to me. I too, am a non drinker. I just don't want to drink full stop, and it is for neither religious or moral reasons. I am happy without drink in my life and I witness so many people out at night drunk off their heads and how stupid or aggressive they become.

I was once in a pub with a friend a number of years ago and unfortunately I didn't realise at the time that having an orange drink in a pub is the worst mortal sin you could commit. A man, who had a couple of empty pint glasses on the table in front of him, and who was already tucking into another glass of the black stuff, shouted across to me, ' Would ya look at the big orange drinker' I wanted to disappear out of the place asap. I said nothing in reply but it was definitely an uncomfortable night for me.

When I was younger, I was asked to take 'a sip' of some beer or was told ' go on it won't harm you' For me now, if anyone says or asks anything about me having a drink. I usually say, I don't drink and then if they keep on at me, I ask them are they deaf and I said NO. I don't have time for people who put pressure on me to drink. I think it is a lack of respect on any friends part to ask me to do so. I am thinking of what's best for me and I don't ever want to drink. It's my choice. If my friends want to drink, I have no problem with it. I respect peoples choices if they want to drink, so people should respect mine. Simple as that.

Bassfish

I still just don't get this massive insecurity Irish people have about those who don't drink. I mean why should whether someone else drinks or not effect you in any way? My theory is the people who get angry or annoyed by non-drinkers are those who are internally questionning their own drinking. Seeing other people happy, successful and sober puts their own habits in perspective and that frightens them so they lash out

languagenerd

Bassfish wrote: »

I still just don't get this massive insecurity Irish people have about those who don't drink. I mean why should whether someone else drinks or not effect you in any way? My theory is the people who get angry or annoyed by non-drinkers are those who are internally questionning their own drinking. Seeing other people happy, successful and sober puts their own habits in perspective and that frightens them so they lash out

You're right, but I think that's only part of it. The other thing is that, in Ireland at least, "fun" = "drinking" and therefore people who don't drink must never have fun and don't want anyone else to have fun :rolleyes:.Tis a load of crap. People feel like they have to drink to have fun. Dunno what that says about our nation!

riffmongous

languagenerd wrote: »

You're right, but I think that's only part of it. The other thing is that, in Ireland at least, "fun" = "drinking" and therefore people who don't drink must never have fun and don't want anyone else to have fun :rolleyes:.Tis a load of crap. People feel like they have to drink to have fun. Dunno what that says about our nation!

The ironic thing, for me at least, is that the fact I'm being constantly judged as a kill-joy for not drinking certainly takes the momentum out of my night for a while and makes it harder for me to have fun :rolleyes:

I don't really have any interest in going to pubs anymore, I'd rather just meet people around the city for the day instead.

the groutch

imo a "friend" who judges you for not drinking isnt really a friend at all

mk6705

the groutch wrote: »

imo a "friend" who judges you for not drinking isnt really a friend at all

Absolutely. People like that are shallow and boring anyway. They have little to offer themselves...they just repeat what they hear around them.

nesbitt

I was a light drinker from my teens to when I turned 40. I would drink way less than my friends and would be the one most dying the next day. I don't tolerate drink too well at all. Anyway had a digestive problem and had to have surgery for it totally unrelated to drinking in any way it is an inherited health issue. I don't drink now and kinda use the surgery as an excuse for being a non drinker. I find people except this and can totally relate to all the comments by posters as to how people react to them as a non drinker. I have had all the snide remarks including the chestnut 'so are you a nutter when you have a few drinks then'..... I found out after that the guy is a troublesome drunk so this was the root of the comment. I sometimes laugh and comment that 'it isn't called the demon drink for nothing ya know' gets some bemused reactions. The real reasons I don't drink are as follows: I have seen too many people destroyed by alcohol dependence. I dislike the drink culture and all its trappings. I am bringing up a family on a tight budget so I do not have this cost attached to my social life. I enjoy spending my disposable income on my kids instead. I feel irritated sometimes when other parents complain about the recession but they can dig deep for the booze money.

seamus

I imagine the main reason why non-drinkers sometimes get a tough time in Ireland is down to these guys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Total_Abstinence_Association

These are a militant Irish anti-alcohol association who have mostly dwindled in recent times, but back when the church mattered, they were known for being vocal, pushy and judgemental about the evils of drink. My grandfather joined the Pioneers in the late 1920's, and when my great-grandfather (a roaring alcoholic) found out, he never spoke to his son again.

As such, "Pioneer" became synonymous with "non-drinker" and someone who doesn't drink was automatically seen as being on their high horse and vehemently anti-drink.
I think attitudes have changed a lot in the last 10 or 15 years so it's generally now OK to not drink. Certainly all of the people I know who don't drink don't get any flak in the pub, that I'm aware of.

To a certain extent though, you may still come across the feeling that someone who doesn't drink is going to be dry company (no pun). That is, rather than both sitting down and having the craic, getting progressively more tipsy and talking ****e, the drinker expects that the non-drinker will get bored of the conversation faster and go home early, killing the night. Obviously it depends on the non-drinker. I imagine most people who don't drink are well capable of talking ****e all night, otherwise you'd have a tough social life in this country.

I've been on stags, trips, all sorts of stuff with non-drinkers. It's never been an issue. But that said, in general, they do get bored more quickly and do go home earlier

Forest Fire

My social life revolves around drink and I'm getting really tired of it. I've befriended drinkers as that's what I was into. Coming off it is tough as who do you talk to? where do you go to wind down and relax? Everyone goes to the pub in this country. Giving up is like looking down the barrel of loneliness and social exclusion, turning my back on life-long pals, staying in with the wife and kids and
being 'good'.
I don't think I am an alcoholic...yet...but don't particularly want to end up as one. Continuing on drinking 4/5 nights a week and contiually rising will only lead to one unhappy ending!
Any tips out there?
FF

Sunnyisland

Forest fire you need to "get a plan" for your recovery from alcohol abuse. The old phrase: "failing to plan is planning to fail" is very true in so many situations... and especially so in the case of those of us who are beginning (and continuing) the path of freedom from the devastation of alcohol abuse.

SO: What is a plan, and how do I get one?


Exercise (doesn't have to be a whole lot; some brisk walking, 3 or 4 days a week, is helpful)
,Meditation (many of us practice meditation)
,Dietary supplements,
,A healthy diet, and regular meals
,Medication (preferably with help, advice, and a prescription from your physician)
,Going to AA meetings,even if you dont belive in everything they say,its good to be around other like minded people at the start,you can leave anytime you want.
,Changing our environment: Getting alcohol out of the house; not going to bars; not hanging around with "drinking buddies"
I used all of the above and am not doing to bad,

ah yeah

I'm 23, living in Dublin. I'd be your typical Irish lad growing up, knacker drinking a bit as a teenager going to junior discos. This continued into college with many booze filled nights, which I must add were bloody enjoyable!

But 2 years ago, I just stopped enjoying it, don't get me wrong, I love a few quality beers or some good wine now and then, but the act of getting sh**faced, wasting the next morning in bed paranoid with 'the fear' after spending an outrageous amount of money just doesn't appeal.

I got really interested in running and cycling and feel a lot fitter and happier for it, but oh god how this has caused havoc with my social life. Suggestions to fellow friends to go for a hike or a cycle have been met with reactions ranging from looks of confusion to awkward silences.

My favourite response from mates is though: "oh you've no incentive to go out to clubs and drink because you've a girlfriend"

My advice to any guy looking to pull is stay sober, because being able to have a coherent conversation with a girl puts you ahead of 90% Irish lads on a typical Saturday night

Forest Fire

@ Realise and Ah Yeah.
Cheers Guys,
I've gone from a bush drinker to a middle-aged pub drinker. I do exercise and pilates and walk a lot. I'm a bit of a contradiction. I drink wine at home and skip food to keep weight down. I'm always conscious that I'm drinking too much but still do it.
My wife is just about the opposite. She hardly drinks at all and is a good source of regulation. I have a good home life in order to give up. Socially, all my friends could drink me under the table but you choose your friends carefully, don't you?
Self employed and work is scarce which is a worry, but temporary sedation from booze wares off early in the morning and I'm in a panic for an hour or so. I always drag something up to worry about.
Third night sober last night and slept it in...better than insomnia!
I just hope I can keep this real existence up continually.
Fight the Power.

mfceiling

Forest Fire wrote: »

My social life revolves around drink and I'm getting really tired of it. I've befriended drinkers as that's what I was into. Coming off it is tough as who do you talk to? where do you go to wind down and relax? Everyone goes to the pub in this country. Giving up is like looking down the barrel of loneliness and social exclusion, turning my back on life-long pals, staying in with the wife and kids and
being 'good'.
I don't think I am an alcoholic...yet...but don't particularly want to end up as one. Continuing on drinking 4/5 nights a week and contiually rising will only lead to one unhappy ending!
Any tips out there?
FF

No shame in that.
I don't drink because i get blinding headaches so no drink = no hangover.
Talk to your missus and try something that doesn't involve drink or being in that area.
Kids will love a new dad who is into them and not a beer.
Hope it works out well for you.

realtabeag00

I am a non drinker, I don't like the taste or the horrible effects it has on my stomach. Sometimes I am jealous of people who claim to enjoy it. I see them having a laugh, dancing, talking to everyone and anyone. I am jealous of their confidence. I know it's not real but it's got to be better than sitting there, bored out of your tree cause the music's too loud to talk to anyone and you're too self conscious to dance. But yet, for me, the negative side of alcohol is not worth it. It's so frustrating!!!!! It's impossible for me to make friends. I feel totally out of the loop. The world to me is like a completed jigsaw puzzle and I'm a jigsaw piece that doesn't fit. Are there any other jigsaw pieces like me out there? Any advice on how to meet like minded people?

Amtmann

realtabeag00 wrote: »

I am a non drinker, I don't like the taste or the horrible effects it has on my stomach. Sometimes I am jealous of people who claim to enjoy it. I see them having a laugh, dancing, talking to everyone and anyone. I am jealous of their confidence. I know it's not real but it's got to be better than sitting there, bored out of your tree cause the music's too loud to talk to anyone and you're too self conscious to dance. But yet, for me, the negative side of alcohol is not worth it. It's so frustrating!!!!! It's impossible for me to make friends. I feel totally out of the loop. The world to me is like a completed jigsaw puzzle and I'm a jigsaw piece that doesn't fit. Are there any other jigsaw pieces like me out there? Any advice on how to meet like minded people?

Hey there. Out of curiosity, how old are you?

realtabeag00

Tremelo wrote: »

Hey there. Out of curiosity, how old are you?

26

nesbitt

realtabeag00 wrote: »

I am a non drinker, I don't like the taste or the horrible effects it has on my stomach. Sometimes I am jealous of people who claim to enjoy it. I see them having a laugh, dancing, talking to everyone and anyone. I am jealous of their confidence. I know it's not real but it's got to be better than sitting there, bored out of your tree cause the music's too loud to talk to anyone and you're too self conscious to dance. But yet, for me, the negative side of alcohol is not worth it. It's so frustrating!!!!! It's impossible for me to make friends. I feel totally out of the loop. The world to me is like a completed jigsaw puzzle and I'm a jigsaw piece that doesn't fit. Are there any other jigsaw pieces like me out there? Any advice on how to meet like minded people?

Get involved in non-drink related activities and you will naturally meet up with others that have lives that do not revolve around the drunk/hungover merry go around... Sports of any kind is an obvious starting point.

sarahisainmdom

Just found this thread and forum today, and as a non-drinker (for the most part) I find it interesting to hear everyone's opinion on the matter.

I'm almost 18, so it's actually not legal for me to drink yet. I've no problem with that, as I don't like how so many people feel the need to get drunk to enjoy themselves or to chat to someone they like or whatever. All of my friends drink, and have for the past year maybe, even though a couple are younger than me. I don't like this about them but I've no problem with it (although I probably did at first). I didn't go out much until the last year (the same is true for my friends, but I've gone out a little less often than them).

I'll be honest, I've had a few drinks, basically from peer pressure. I'm ashamed to say it, just because I thought I was stronger than that. Having said that I only have one or two on a night out, and I've only done this a couple of times. (Most of my friends have drunk more in one night than I have in my life!) I may have the odd drink to avoid the 'dry-arse' looks, but I don't plan on getting drunk, well, ever really. It's just not me. I like having the craic sober, the healthy kind (and I'm talking mentally healthy not just physically). Even though I plan on appeasing my friends by having the odd drink, I'd still prefer to be a pioneer. It's just that people genearally see it as a bad quality rather than a good one. I don't mind not being admired for not drinking, I'm not doing it for anyone else bar me, but jesus being looked down on for it is kind of sickening. :mad:

languagenerd

sarahisainmdom wrote: »

Just found this thread and forum today, and as a non-drinker (for the most part) I find it interesting to hear everyone's opinion on the matter.

I'm almost 18, so it's actually not legal for me to drink yet. I've no problem with that, as I don't like how so many people feel the need to get drunk to enjoy themselves or to chat to someone they like or whatever. All of my friends drink, and have for the past year maybe, even though a couple are younger than me. I don't like this about them but I've no problem with it (although I probably did at first). I didn't go out much until the last year (the same is true for my friends, but I've gone out a little less often than them).

I'll be honest, I've had a few drinks, basically from peer pressure. I'm ashamed to say it, just because I thought I was stronger than that. Having said that I only have one or two on a night out, and I've only done this a couple of times. (Most of my friends have drunk more in one night than I have in my life!) I may have the odd drink to avoid the 'dry-arse' looks, but I don't plan on getting drunk, well, ever really. It's just not me. I like having the craic sober, the healthy kind (and I'm talking mentally healthy not just physically). Even though I plan on appeasing my friends by having the odd drink, I'd still prefer to be a pioneer. It's just that people genearally see it as a bad quality rather than a good one. I don't mind not being admired for not drinking, I'm not doing it for anyone else bar me, but jesus being looked down on for it is kind of sickening. :mad:

You really shouldn't have to "appease" your friends! If they're real friends, they won't care what's in your glass... But I know, I'm 19 and don't drink and sometimes it can suck being the only sober one when everyone's out of it.

That said, I think the idea of being a non-drinker (and the word "pioneer" in particular) just give people the impression that you'll automatically look down on them, that you don't want to have fun and that you don't want them to have fun either. I've found that once people realised that I can have fun on a night out, they stop caring about the fact that I don't drink. I get the occasional jibe about it but usually in a good-natured way.

Basically, keep being yourself, don't make a big deal about not drinking, create your own fun and (most) people will stop caring about what you're drinking!

misemise

Hi all, tis my first post on boards. I'm also a non drinker and to be honest some of my friends do give me a hard time. I try not to let it get me down as I've honestly never been happier in my self then I am now but one particular comment that did upset me is when my friends were talking to me about my hen night and one my close friends said oh you should drink. She must think I'm some dry sh*te but I know myself that it's not true and that whatever reason she wants me to drink is to do with herself.

Sunnyisland

Welcome misemise hope you can share your thoughts and opinions here,its great to have another poster :-)

misemise

thanks realies, I've been having a look around the forum for a while now but thought it's about time I said hello!

AshlingB

As an Irish student who doesn't drink the activities that don't involve drinking are severely limited and even post-exam celebrations have turned into a quiz as to how I could possibly not need a drink and that I'm so "lucky" that I don't drink when really it's a personal decision that I made for many varying reasons. Nothing to do with luck at all.

My housemates this year kept pressuring me and offering to buy me drink if I'd drink it all etc. I've been told that people are glad I don't drink as I'm such a personality without it, that I have people's respect for not drinking while they sit drinking themselves, I'm often not thoguht of to invite to events just because of the drink issue, my boyfriend has been accused of pressuring me to stop drinking just because he's unable to, I've bee told I don't need to lose weight/save money/be up early, my dad approached me worried that I wasn't enjoying my youth, people have assumed that I have a family history of alcoholism, people are amazed that I can dance in a club on a night out sober, friends have others I'm drinking, I've been told my drink will be spiked, people tell me to get a license and a car so I can be "Designated Driver"..

It's led to more but they're the most common.

People just don't seem to understand. We really are a minority. Ireland has such a negative image when it comes to drinking. Sobriety has such a negative image in the eyes of so many.