Garden Moth Recording 2011

Mothman

Anyone one interested in giving this a go?

Garden Moth Scheme

Suitable for beginners and ALL gardens. Some participants only have a balcony.

This is an annual survey of moths in gardens covering Britain and Ireland.

It requires running a moth trap overnight and recording most of contents the following morning once a week from March to Nov. Up to 9 weeks with no more than 3 in a row can be missed. This means that one can start near end of March having missed the first 3 weeks. So there is still time to get organised.

Requirements, moth trap, guide book....enthusiasm and a willingness to learn

The last 2 are easy and cost nothing

The guide book is relatively straight froward, but will cost in the order of €30-€40
Field Guide to the Moths of Great Britain and Ireland 2nd edition
Waring , Townsend & Lewington. (link to publisher) about half way down.

There is a concise version which has the same plates, but in my opinion, the full version is worth it for the extra meaningful info, but if the budget cannot stretch the concise version will do.

Moth traps not near as straight forward and unless you go a DIY option, can cost a pretty penny cent and even then, its hard to do it under €50. The issue is electrics and out door environment.

A moth trap is basically a light source and a retaining box/bucket etc. The box is often the DIY part and the light source is often sourced from specialist moth trap supplier. One of my traps uses fish tank electrics with the control unit in a plastic lunch box type container.

See guide to Moth Trapping includes plans for building your own trap
and Guide to Bulbs

and see here for list of moth trap suppliers

I'm hopeful that Littlebug and Half-cocked may be interested in joining the 15 or so currently participating in Ireland, but maybe there are others?

One last thing is, that taking photos of the moths and uploading them to internet will be really helpful with regard identifying them.

Any queries, just ask away....

thebishop

How effective is the mothtrap in areas that have street lighting? I have a book "the moths of the british isles"by Richard South would I need something more up to date. Cheers.

Mothman

thebishop wrote: »

How effective is the mothtrap in areas that have street lighting? I have a book "the moths of the british isles"by Richard South would I need something more up to date. Cheers.

The influence of street lights may well be an aspect that the GMS dataset may be analysed for.
Moth traps do work well even under street lighting, though probably stating the obvious that usually the habitat where street lighting is (ie Urban) is not so good. There is a bias towards rural gardens in the GMS and they would like to get more urban gardens/traps involved.
"South" is certainly better then nothing though I've never looked through a copy. It was the moth bible for decades. What the Waring book has are excellent clarity of the Lewington drawings of the moths in their resting position as opposed to the drawings of set specimens in South. There are a huge number of websites with moth images that it is possible to manage without a guide book, but one would be relying on taking photos of each moth and then asking or searching for indentifications.

Ditch

Mothman; South is just about worse than useless. I have both volumes here. Sorry; Crap! We don't stick pins in moths any more. We don't see them as South shows them.

WTL? Got that too. Changed my life! What a fantastic book!

Made a Moth Trap. Worked fine. Still got the step by step photo's of how I put it together, if ye'd like me to show them? Dead easy.

Then the old eyeballs went tits up. Couple of years ago. They all look like so many feathers to me, now

What I want to convey though is that I only managed maybe four seasons myself. But what a fantastic time that was!

Anything from perfect little replicas of the end of a Silver Birch twig, to a thumping great Poplar Hawk smashing against ye window?!

Get amongst it, peeps!

Mothman

Ditch wrote: »

Mothman; South is just about worse than useless. I have both volumes here. Sorry; Crap! We don't stick pins in moths any more. We don't see them as South shows them.

I don't like to sound so harsh when that is all they have and perhaps haven't got a cent towards a new guide.

WTL? Got that too. Changed my life! What a fantastic book!

Yes, in comparison Waring Townsend and Lewington (WTL) is great and to be honest may well be the difference between making moth recording enjoyable and not, ie the frustration of not translating what is in the trap to an image in the book may be too much.

Made a Moth Trap. Worked fine. Still got the step by step photo's of how I put it together, if ye'd like me to show them? Dead easy.

That would be useful. Most of my traps are just boxes with a funnel in top. The trickier part is applying the light to the box/funnel.

What I want to convey though is that I only managed maybe four seasons myself. But what a fantastic time that was!

Anything from perfect little replicas of the end of a Silver Birch twig, to a thumping great Poplar Hawk smashing against ye window?!

Get amongst it, peeps!

Did you look through this thread

The vast bulk of these moths could turn up anywhere.

Ditch

Mothman wrote: »

I don't like to sound so harsh when that is all they have and perhaps haven't got a cent towards a new guide.

Had a think on that. My WTL book's no good to me any more. Can't see the pictures, or the moths clearly enough now to make proper ID's.

Wondered, for a minute there, how I could get my book to someone who'd want it, but didn't have a cent.

Think I'll take it into town with me, next time I go. Drop it off at the library. Can't say fairer than that, can I?


My moth trap shots? I'll dig them out and run them past ye in PM. If ye reckon they'll serve any purpose? Fine. Only, putting up pictures is a bit of a drama for me ~ dead slow connection ~ so I don't like to try it pointlessly.


That other thread? Again, picture rich threads are wasted on me. Shots take for ever to unfurl. Often as not they just stick half way too, after ages of waiting :rolleyes:

Got the idea though. Nice. I've got folders full of moths shots here too. Some gorgeous creatures out there.

Sat in an empty pub one day. Chatting to the Landlord. He reached into an alcove to get something out and show me. Whack off big Winter Moth fluttered out!

I went absolutely ballistic and started raving about it as I whipped out my camera ..... Reckon he thought I'd lost my mind! It was 'Just a moth', to him, of course. Uninitiated

littlebug

I've got to get my act together on this. I've put a request in to Charlie Byrnes (second hand) bookshop in Galway to see do they have a copy of the field guide but no repsonse yet. It's unlikely given that the 2nd edition is a fairly recent publication but no harm in asking.

I'm going to buy in the electrics set. I'm thinking of actinic to reduce interference to neighbours but I believe this may also mean a smaller catch? Have you used both MM? What's your experience of either/ or?

With regards to the box my plan is to go to the shed and mess around with saws and stuff, making enough noise so that Mrbug gets nervous and takes over :cool:
Not really... I've been told to give him the plans and he shall deliver the box...

Mothman

littlebug wrote: »

I've got to get my act together on this. I've put a request in to Charlie Byrnes (second hand) bookshop in Galway to see do they have a copy of the field guide but no repsonse yet. It's unlikely given that the 2nd edition is a fairly recent publication but no harm in asking.

The first edition will suffice. The 2nd edtion has up to date Irish distribution and all the plates are together rather than separated into 5 sections spread through book. And each image has page number for text whereas 1st edition had a page range, which was really annoying. The distribution details is not really important, but for a beginner, having all the plates together and having specific page for text makes the book much easier to use.

I'm going to buy in the electrics set. I'm thinking of actinic to reduce interference to neighbours but I believe this may also mean a smaller catch? Have you used both MM? What's your experience of either/ or?

I'd advise the actinic. The MV does usually pull in more moths, but for a beginner, this is usually a bad thing! The MV is very bright and can cause issues with neighbours. Where the actinic does seem to relatively under perform is under moonlit nights.

What actinic set are you looking at?

BTW, actinic = fluorescent tube

littlebug

Mothman wrote: »

What actinic set are you looking at?

BTW, actinic = fluorescent tube

http://www.pwbelg.clara.net/mercury/electrics_sets_actinic/index.html

I'm guessing the 40w actinic? But as I say I'm guessing ... electrics aren't my thing! It's pricy enough when converted to euro.

mossie

Mothman wrote: »

The guide book is relatively straight froward, but will cost in the order of €30-€40
Field Guide to the Moths of Great Britain and Ireland 2nd edition
Waring , Townsend & Lewington. (link to publisher) about half way down.

The Book Depository have this for €30 and free delivery (http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9780953139989/Field-Guide-to-the-Moths-of-Great-Britain-and-Ireland )

Mothman

And that is 2nd edition, published in 09 and has "Revised edition" in the orange ovel top right corner.

I strongly advocate supporting ones local book shop....but money talks

Mothman

littlebug wrote: »

http://www.pwbelg.clara.net/mercury/electrics_sets_actinic/index.html

I'm guessing the 40w actinic? But as I say I'm guessing ... electrics aren't my thing! It's pricy enough when converted to euro.

That's quite a good lamp. One thing to bear in mind is replacement cost of lamps. Accidents do happen, especially with a dog
I haven't found this lamp online to see a replacement cost but I'll try get round to dropping into my electrics supplier and bring my 40w lamp

littlebug

So how many of us are doing this?
My electrics and book have arrived Weather permitting I'll do a trial run this weekend.

MM I have a few questions. The first one is where to place the trap. My garden is fairly sparse at the minute. This will obviously change over the next few months but may have an impact on what comes to my moth trap (if anything:()just now . I was thinking of having it on a table at the back of the house so it would/ should be visible from over my back wall (lots of hedges and trees from about 10m from my house leading to a small wooded patch about 50m in that direction. But having it that close to the house (and house lights) means it's away from what little shrubbery I have at the minute. Having it back from the house and near shrubbery means it's tucked in behind a 6ft wall, blocked off from the direction most likely to have moths hiding away. What do you think?

Secondly... there are a lot of moths in that book:eek:! So can you advise on any starting points bearing in mind the time of year and what's most likely to turn up?

Thanks. LB.

Gardener3

Hi LB, so far there are sixteen of us in Ireland taking part in the GMS 2011 but there's still a bit of time for more to join up.
Last year there were records sent in from 312 gardens in Britain and Ireland so it would be great to get some more Irish records into the database as moths are desperately under-recorded here - who knows what might be flying!

If anyone else is interested or is just plain curious to find out what its all about I've re-posted MM's link to the Garden Moth Scheme website here: http://www.gardenmoths.org.uk/
Contact details for Ireland can be found by clicking Communications > Ireland

There are quite a few websites with 'Flying now' pages for each month or week, they are all UK sites so include species we don't get here but do help to narrow the possibilities down:
http://back-garden-moths.co.uk/community/monthid2.php?flightID=February
http://www.hantsmoths.org.uk/flying_tonight.php
http://www.suffolkmothgroup.org.uk/flyingTonight.html
http://sites.google.com/site/berksmoths/Home/flying

The MothsIreland group is a good place to post photos that you'd like ID help or confirmation with, there is a link if you scroll down the homepage: http://www.mothsireland.com/
Its the site to use to check the Irish distribution and flight time of species, (and find out if you might have a new county record!) and each species has links to
UK Moths: http://ukmoths.org.uk/index.php
Butterflies and Moths of Northern Ireland: http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/
Donegal moths: http://www.skylark.ie/donegalmoths/default.asp

There's also a GardenMoths chatsite that anyone signing up for the GMS can join, its interesting seeing whats being recorded in other gardens and people to help with identifications.

(Note to Mods: I hope I haven't posted too many links here, not sure what the policy is?)

thebishop

I got that book too,and got back the Bernard Skinner one I had lent to some one. Have ordered the electrics from Anglian supplies to make a trap...Wil see how it works out.

Mothman

thebishop wrote: »

I got that book too,and got back the Bernard Skinner one I had lent to some one. Have ordered the electrics from Anglian supplies to make a trap...Wil see how it works out.

Excellent,
What part of the country?
and what habitat is near you?

Mothman

Excellent summary Gardener. The what's flying now links are very useful.

littlebug wrote: »

MM I have a few questions. The first one is where to place the trap. My garden is fairly sparse at the minute. This will obviously change over the next few months but may have an impact on what comes to my moth trap (if anything:()just now . I was thinking of having it on a table at the back of the house so it would/ should be visible from over my back wall (lots of hedges and trees from about 10m from my house leading to a small wooded patch about 50m in that direction. But having it that close to the house (and house lights) means it's away from what little shrubbery I have at the minute. Having it back from the house and near shrubbery means it's tucked in behind a 6ft wall, blocked off from the direction most likely to have moths hiding away. What do you think?

Any pictures....if you dare:pac:

Shelter has quite a bearing on trap location. Also white walls are very good. A lot of houses are white and a trap placed at the wall can do really well. Plenty of moths alight on the wall...sometimes one wonders what the box is for with more moths on outside than in!
The issue with moths on outside are the feathered friends which can quickly learn where a free breakfast is...an issue in high summer with very early dawns.

littlebug wrote: »

Secondly... there are a lot of moths in that book:eek:! So can you advise on any starting points bearing in mind the time of year and what's most likely to turn up?

Ha ha, about 800 species in the book of which about 580 have been recorded in Ireland and with regular recording a year list in a garden above 150 species can be expected.
Here is my species list for past few days

1659 Yellow Horned (Achlya flavicornis) 5
1663 March Moth (Alsophila aescularia) 80
1746 Shoulder Stripe (Anticlea badiata) 2
1760 Red-green Carpet (Chloroclysta siterata) 1
1852 Brindled Pug (Eupithecia abbreviata) 1
1862 Double-striped Pug (Gymnoscelis rufifasciata) 1
1917 Early Thorn (Selenia dentaria) 4
1926 Pale Brindled Beauty (Phigalia pilosaria) 46
1930 Oak Beauty (Biston strataria) 16
1934 Dotted Border (Agriopis marginaria) 48
2187 Common Quaker (Orthosia cerasi) 165
2188 Clouded Drab (Orthosia incerta) 136
2189 Twin-spotted Quaker (Orthosia munda) 5
2190 Hebrew Character (Orthosia gothica) 62
2236 Pale Pinion (Lithophane hepatica) 1
2237 Grey Shoulder-knot (Lithophane ornitopus) 2
2241 Red Sword-grass (Xylena vetusta) 1
2243 Early Grey (Xylocampa areola) 6
2256 Satellite (Eupsilia transversa) 6
2258 Chestnut (Conistra vaccinii) 47
2423 Oak Nycteoline (Nycteola revayana) 1

So the species with the higher numbers are most likely the species you'll see. The problem is the range of variation within a species. Have a look at page 252 to see Common Quaker, Clouded Drab and Hebrew Character. The book shows a small number of variations, yet itstill has 14 illustrations to depict the 3 species..then add in Powdered Quaker, Small Qauker and Twin-spotted Quaker which will also be in the mix before end of March!

Also if you've no mature trees nearby, don't be surprised if the trap is empty until near late March

You will make many mistakes, but you'll also learn really quickly and just when you think you have a species sussed, another variation will catch you out Its all a lot of fun :pac:

Anyway. we're here to help, just take photos. Don't get caught up trying to identify small species but if you can take photos, they may be able to be identified and the record can be logged.

Make sure there are egg trays in the trap...when I started I didn't know about egg trays:o

thebishop

Mothman wrote: »

Excellent,
What part of the country?
and what habitat is near you?

West Cork.Edge of town.Close to farmland and a small wood near by.mostly ash trees.

Mothman

thebishop wrote: »

West Cork.Edge of town.Close to farmland and a small wood near by.mostly ash trees.

Its great to hear of more moth recorders, particularly in the more western areas. It does seem that moth fauna in the less intensively farmed areas is better. This judging by records I receive from recorders further west.

thebishop

Had first moth of the year on the patio door last night. Early Thorn. Took me about an hour to I.D. it. Hope I never have a couple of dozen different ones in the one night. it would prob take me a week to I.D em all.

Mothman

thebishop wrote: »

Had first moth of the year on the patio door last night. Early Thorn. Took me about an hour to I.D. it. Hope I never have a couple of dozen different ones in the one night. it would prob take me a week to I.D em all.

Indeed, a very steep learning curve but a great time of year to start. It'll probably be months before you'll have couple dozen species and by then you'll have dramatically cut down on the time needed to work out each species. You'll have an idea what part of the book to go to first.

Whan I started, it was late June...I struggled and I was overwhelmed but the online help available got me through.

And another tip worth noting, an orange patch on top of head is not an identification feature but a worn patch....I used plenty of time looking through book for this orange patch

and Early Thorn always rest butterfly like with wings usually fully closed.

littlebug

Mothman wrote: »

Any pictures....if you dare:pac:

not a chance... the state the place is in at the minute :eek:

thebishop wrote: »

Hope I never have a couple of dozen different ones in the one night. it would prob take me a week to I.D em all.

I'm thinking exactly the same, but also worried I'll get none though that would be easier!

Meanwhile, the fridge is full of eggs

Mothman

littlebug wrote: »

Meanwhile, the fridge is full of eggs

If you can acquire some egg trays...the ones that hold 30 eggs and cut these down. The holes aren't as deep as the usual 6/12 egg boxes and the moths can be seen without having to extract them.

Try restaurant/hotel and see if they'll hold some trays for you.

littlebug

And we're off!

I have a feeling it won't take me long to identify my catch tomorrow

Mothman

Appear to be coming to trap in droves...

Seen Common Quaker
March Moth
Chestnut
Clouded Drab
Hebrew Character
Pale Brindled Beauty

Gardener3

Clear skies and feeling frosty already - there aren't any droves down here!

Mothman

Cloudy 6C here
Add
Small Qauker
Twin-spotted Quaker
Early Thorn
Oak Beauty
to the list...

littlebug

Still nothing.
Does there come a time when I admit defeat for the night or will I leave it on all night regardless?
I completely forgot about recording temps

Mothman

Leave it on all night. A bit of cloud may come and raise temps and its a long time to dawn.

For anyone away from ideal habitat empty traps are frequent until April. So hang in there if you do draw a blank. Be sure to check on outside of trap within a couple metres...

Don't worry about recording the temperature. It is far from compulsory. I also have a pm from Gardener to reply 2 on this matter.

Gardener3

Hi littlebug, for the GMS you leave the trap on all night, whether there are moths or not - and though its disappointing recording nothing it's still worth doing as it provides useful data.

Sometimes even if the night starts out really cold a bit of cloud cover can raise the temperature just enough to get moths into the trap by morning.

I've just checked outside and lo and behold, the sky has got cloudy and there is a March Moth at the light (ok so its not droves but good to see! )

(Ooops, sorry for repeating Mothman's post)

thebishop

No life this side of the Country yet either.Temp still above freezing, theres hope yet.

Mothman

Add
Dotted Border
Early Grey
Yellow Horned
to list

Sorry if this is annoying, bit it is useful to know what species are most likely. I am surprised with how many there are considering the lack of sunshine today, but there is no frost, unlike the previous few nights.

thebishop

At least we can look up the ones you are getting in the book.Good for practise.:)

Gardener3

They're creeping up slowly, now there's a Pale Brindled Beauty, 2 March Moths and what looks like a Light Brown Apple Moth - new one for me so I'll have to confirm it in the morning .....

littlebug

Yay I have moths!

I thought there was nothing in the box at first but there was one (photographed but as yet unidentified) on the underside of the parasol and a plume moth* (assume Emmelina Monodactyla until further inspection) on the netting of the trampoline. Closer inspection of the box tells me there are at least 5 more in there. Coffee needed before I begin the next task!

* will be henceforth known as stickmoth in our house

Mothman

Excellent LB Delighted you got something.
A bumper catch with me. 270moths!!
125w MV Temp 5-6C so not especially mild, but cloudy all night.
2nd highest single count of Clouded Drab in the MothsIreland database - nearly 1400 records. I've been informed of a higher count in Donegal but I don't have this record yet
The trap is nowhere near the Sallow...do I dare put it under the sallow which is flowering. Could double the catch :eek:

0468 Rhigognostis incarnatella 1
0701 Agonopterix ocellana 1
1061 Acleris literana 1
1659 Yellow Horned (Achlya flavicornis) 1
1663 March Moth (Alsophila aescularia) 21
1746 Shoulder Stripe (Anticlea badiata) 1
1917 Early Thorn (Selenia dentaria) 5
1926 Pale Brindled Beauty (Phigalia pilosaria) 7
1930 Oak Beauty (Biston strataria) 5
1934 Dotted Border (Agriopis marginaria) 11
2182 Small Quaker (Orthosia cruda) 3
2187 Common Quaker (Orthosia cerasi) 72
2188 Clouded Drab (Orthosia incerta) 87
2189 Twin-spotted Quaker (Orthosia munda) 9
2190 Hebrew Character (Orthosia gothica) 34
2237 Grey Shoulder-knot (Lithophane ornitopus) 1
2243 Early Grey (Xylocampa areola) 4
2258 Chestnut (Conistra vaccinii) 6

Not much missing...just a few hibernators such as Pale Pinion, Red-green Carpet, Satellite, Red Sword-grass, Herald.

littlebug

I think if I'd had 270 moths I'd have thrown in the towel already!
I had a total of 15 moths.

1524 Emmelina Monodactyla x 4 (micro so not included in GMS?)
2188 Clouded Drab x 4
2187 Common Quaker x3
2190 Hebrew Character x2
1663 March Moth x1

and this one that I'm not sure of

Mothman

Another Clouded Drab. Some forms of Twin-spotted Quaker can be similar to some forms of Clouded Drab.
There are quite a few micros on the GMS list, without looking, I don't know if Emmelina Monodactyla is among them.

A good start for you and possibly already an insight into the variations within a species.

thebishop

Hard frost here again last night.Got 3 Common Quakers.Nothing else. At least I know the trap works.

littlebug

thebishop wrote: »

At least I know the trap works.

That was my first thought too

Mothman wrote: »

possibly already an insight into the variations within a species.

You're not joking. Aside from that one I spent half an hour mulling over one of the powdered common quakers

Gardener3

Oh well at least I didn't have to count my way through 87 Clouded Drabs.

March Moth x 2
Chestnut x 2
Clouded Drab x 2

plus a micro that flew off too quick to pot and a Pale Brindled Beauty (sadly not on the GMS list!)

Its been cloudy all day so I'm off to the woods with the 6W Actinic battery trap in the hope of better luck tonight

Mothman

Some photos....



More to follow...

Mothman

Quakers...left to right
Small Quaker, Twin-spotted Quaker, Hebrew Character, Clouded Drab, Common Quaker


All Common Quaker


All Twin-spotted Quaker


Couple Early Grey, a Honeysuckle species


Grey Shoulder-knot, has hibernated. The "shoulder-knot" refers the the black line at either shoulder.


Dotted Border, Shoulder Stripe


Pale Brindled Beauty, Dotted Border, Oak Beauty


Yellow Horned

littlebug

Well I've obviously learned something already as I was able to identify the common quakers and hebrew characters straight off from your top pic.

Here are my two favourite photos from yesterday.

Emmelina Monodactyla


and clouded drab. Not a great photo but he is free range you know :cool:

littlebug

Week 2 and it's belting it down here in Mayo No self respecting moth would venture out in that.
How are the rest of you doing?

Gardener3

Co. Cork and the wind has eased off, broken cloud and drizzle.

So far
March Moth x 4
Chestnut x 1
Engrailed x 1
Pale Brindled Beauty x 1

littlebug

Just one little micro braved the snow :eek: and made it in to my trap last night.
If I can't figure it out I'll put a pic up tomorrow.

edited to add.... quick and easy to id.. a white shouldered house moth.

Mothman

I stayed in mild zone all night with temps 7-9C, but it was a moth unfriendly 9C and while Orthosia species came in numbers, there was little of anything else.

Robinson 125w mV

1663 March Moth (Alsophila aescularia) 2
1917 Early Thorn (Selenia dentaria) 2
2182 Small Quaker (Orthosia cruda) 4
2187 Common Quaker (Orthosia cerasi) 87
2188 Clouded Drab (Orthosia incerta) 53
2189 Twin-spotted Quaker (Orthosia munda) 12
2190 Hebrew Character (Orthosia gothica) 29
2237 Grey Shoulder-knot (Lithophane ornitopus) 1
2243 Early Grey (Xylocampa areola) 2

Gardener3

Patchy cloud and drizzle at midnight, sleet and snow by morning .....
To my surprise the 40W Actinic had

Chestnut x 1
Clouded Drab x 6
Common Quaker x 2
Dotted Border x 1
Double-striped Pug x 1
Engrailed x 2 (not on GMS list)
March Moth x 7
Pale Brindled Beauty x 2 (not on GMS list)
Twin-spotted Quaker x 1

thebishop

Too wet here last night to put the trap out.Hope tonight might be better.

thebishop

Had trap out last night. Temp was -2 early in the night up to +2 later with light showers.No moths to report, total blank.