Oliver J Flanagan jews and the masons?

nyarlothothep

profitius wrote: »

I knew a person who was not liked by people. Where ever he went people soon got to dislike him. This fella was short and a troublemaker. So either people disliked him for being short or they soon got to know what he was like.

We can call people shortists for discriminating against short people or we can wisen up and realise that maybe the problem isn't with everyone else. See where I'm going here? This fella was angry and had a 'world against me' complex and ended up making life harder for himself than it should have been.

Except thats one individual, you can't typify an entire race for the same reason. Its a different context involving different variables: politics/religion/social identity etc. The analogy falls apart in the leap from the individual case to a socio historical situation.

Strange though that black people aren't mentioned, did they bring it on themselves too? Did the Irish ask to be colonised, killed by the thousands by Cromwell? Did native americans invite massacre? And under what pretexts? Stupidity, primitivism or just being inferior? Or maybe it was none of the above. Maybe its because you have aggressors who will seek to persecute others who are different or weaker than they are, or for profit, or power or a narcissistic need to feel superior?

profitius

enfant terrible wrote: »

It might surprise you to know you are wrong.

No thats your opinion.

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Except thats one individual, you can't typify an entire race for the same reason. Its a different context involving different variables: politics/religion/social identity etc. The analogy falls apart in the leap from the individual case to a socio historical situation.

Strange though that black people aren't mentioned, did they bring it on themselves too? Did the Irish ask to be colonised, killed by the thousands by Cromwell? Did native americans invite massacre? And under what pretexts? Stupidity, primitivism or just being inferior? Or maybe it was none of the above. Maybe its because you have aggressors who will seek to persecute others who are different or weaker than they are, or for profit, or power or a narcissistic need to feel superior?

We're not talking about Black people. Flanagan only spoke about Jewish people.

Irish people and native Americans were not disliked throughout history by everyone. Its a totally different thing.

I don't think Flanagan spoke about Irish people being superior. He wanted to protect Ireland from certain groups.

Yitzhak Rabin

profitius wrote: »

I don't think Flanagan spoke about Irish people being superior. He wanted to protect Ireland from certain groups.

Who or what did he want to protect us from?

enfant terrible

profitius wrote: »

No thats your opinion.

Then tell me why I'm wrong why were Jews persecuted throughout history?

Mahatma coat

Going out on a Limb here slightly, but lookin at the timeframe for Flannagan, I'd say in his heart of Hearts he wanted to Protect Ireland from

International Zionisim
Because of
The Dilution of the Principals of 'Holy Catholic Ireland'
The threat of Propaganda from a Jewish Media
The threat if A Jewish inspired Communist Uprising
Odd Foreigners with their Foreign Ways

Probably mostly the last one


but mainly the best way to unify a disenfranchised poplation is to direct their energies and attentions away from the problems in their life and vent their anger on a Smaller and easily identified Group in Society, Ireland was a Bit short on black People at the time, So Jews were the next Demographic on the List

Brown Bomber

I think the distinction needs to be made between International Jewry and regular Jewish folk who are the ones who actually suffered.

International Jewry declared war on Germany before Hitler was fuhrer.



http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/jewishwar.cfm

During the American Civil War Ulysees S. Grant evicted Jews from areas under his control because they were the carpet baggers.

General Order No. 11 decreed as follows:

1. The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department [of the Tennessee] within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.
2. Post commanders will see to it that all of this class of people be furnished passes and required to leave, and any one returning after such notification will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permit from headquarters.
3. No passes will be given these people to visit headquarters for the purpose of making personal application of trade permits.[6]

In a letter of the same date sent to Christopher Parsons Wolcott, the assistant United States Secretary of War, Grant explained his reasoning:

Sir,

I have long since believed that in spite of all the vigilance that can be infused into Post Commanders, that the Specie regulations of the Treasury Dept. have been violated, and that mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders. So well satisfied of this have I been at this that I instructed the Commdg Officer at Columbus [Kentucky] to refuse all permits to Jews to come south, and frequently have had them expelled from the Dept. [of the Tennessee]. But they come in with their Carpet sacks in spite of all that can be done to prevent it. The Jews seem to be a privileged class that can travel any where. They will land at any wood yard or landing on the river and make their way through the country. If not permitted to buy Cotton themselves they will act as agents for someone else who will be at a Military post, with a Treasury permit to receive Cotton and pay for it in Treasury notes which the Jew will buy up at an agreed rate, paying gold.

There is but one way that I know of to reach this case. That is for Government to buy all the Cotton at a fixed rate and send it to Cairo, St Louis, or some other point to be sold. Then all traders, they are a curse to the Army, might be expelled.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Order_No._11_%281862%29#cite_note-marcus-6

These are the first two I looked into. I would speculate there are similar semi-reasons in most cases if I were to go through the full list. Not that ethnic cleansing, genocide or collective punishment is excusable under any circumstances just that there is no smoke without fire. Even today Gordon Thomas, author of Gideon's Spies puts the worldwide figure of sayanim at 1,000,000. Diaspora Jews who work in conjunction with Mossad aiding Mossad intelligence operations in the countries that they are citizens of.

brianthelion

I wonder how he managed to the top the poll everytime for so long,I guess somebody liked him.Here comes Oliver J.................

There goes Flanagan

profitius

yekahS wrote: »

Who or what did he want to protect us from?

He didn't want the country to end up like it is now where theres elites who control everything. He saw what was coming.

enfant terrible wrote: »

Then tell me why I'm wrong why were Jews persecuted throughout history?

Obviously they were doing things people didn't like.

If people really hated the Jews just for being different they wouldn't have allowed them into their country in the first place or done any business with them.

profitius

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Except thats one individual, you can't typify an entire race for the same reason. Its a different context involving different variables: politics/religion/social identity etc. The analogy falls apart in the leap from the individual case to a socio historical situation.

If they act with a group mentality you certainly can.

nyarlothothep wrote:

Strange though that black people aren't mentioned, did they bring it on themselves too? Did the Irish ask to be colonised, killed by the thousands by Cromwell? Did native americans invite massacre? And under what pretexts? Stupidity, primitivism or just being inferior? Or maybe it was none of the above. Maybe its because you have aggressors who will seek to persecute others who are different or weaker than they are, or for profit, or power or a narcissistic need to feel superior?

Flanagan doesn't mention any other race or does he?

I think the rest of your post there is going off topic.

nyarlothothep

profitius wrote: »

If they act with a group mentality you certainly can.



Flanagan doesn't mention any other race or does he?

I think the rest of your post there is going off topic.

Yeah except stating that a race/nation=this personality in terms of the national/racial psyche has largely been discredited in the social sciences because it fails to account for variables which run contrary to such assertions.

Flanagan doesn't mention any other race but the impetus for mentioning jews the way in which he did derives from a common source, namely bigotry.

As for Ireland it fcking sucked 50 years ago and was still ruled by elites. Its still a dump ruled by elites but a much more liberal and comfortable one.

Monty Burnz

profitius wrote: »

He didn't want the country to end up like it is now where theres elites who control everything. He saw what was coming.

Do you think elites are a new thing? When do you think has been the most democratic period in - say - the last 2000 years?

profitius wrote: »

Obviously they were doing things people didn't like.

If people really hated the Jews just for being different they wouldn't have allowed them into their country in the first place or done any business with them.

I think it's pretty straightforward to be honest - Jewish people were obliged to be literate to study the Torah. This meant that they had a huge business advantage over their mostly illiterate competition. Their success bred envy then, as it does today, and the meme of the sneaky, scheming Jew was born. It doesn't mean that it was ever based in fact.

K-9

profitius wrote: »

He didn't want the country to end up like it is now where theres elites who control everything. He saw what was coming.



Obviously they were doing things people didn't like.

If people really hated the Jews just for being different they wouldn't have allowed them into their country in the first place or done any business with them.

Flanagan himself was part of the elite in this country, that's what people are missing here.

He would have been the same social conservative Catholic as DeVelera and FF, Costello and FG.

If you want to pick somebody who opposed the elite, I'd say Noel Browne is your man.

Noël Browne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

profitius

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Yeah except stating that a race/nation=this personality in terms of the national/racial psyche has largely been discredited in the social sciences because it fails to account for variables which run contrary to such assertions.

Such as?

Flanagan doesn't mention any other race but the impetus for mentioning jews the way in which he did derives from a common source, namely bigotry.

Thats entirely your opinion and you're entitled to it. I prefer to see proof but thats just me.

As for Ireland it fcking sucked 50 years ago and was still ruled by elites. Its still a dump ruled by elites but a much more liberal and comfortable one.

Your opinion again. There was more equality in the old days. Times were tougher but people were happier back then.

profitius

K-9 wrote: »

Flanagan himself was part of the elite in this country, that's what people are missing here.

He would have been the same social conservative Catholic as DeVelera and FF, Costello and FG.

If you want to pick somebody who opposed the elite, I'd say Noel Browne is your man.

Noël Browne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well maybe he had access to information normal people didn't/doesn't.

profitius

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Do you think elites are a new thing? When do you think has been the most democratic period in - say - the last 2000 years?


I think it's pretty straightforward to be honest - Jewish people were obliged to be literate to study the Torah. This meant that they had a huge business advantage over their mostly illiterate competition. Their success bred envy then, as it does today, and the meme of the sneaky, scheming Jew was born. It doesn't mean that it was ever based in fact.

Its not straightforward its a highly simplistic explanation. Theres no doubt that Jewish people value education more than any other people but it doesn't explain Zionism etc. And there are even Jewish groups opposed to that because they say it gives them a bad name!

Monty Burnz

profitius wrote: »

Its not straightforward its a highly simplistic explanation. Theres no doubt that Jewish people value education more than any other people but it doesn't explain Zionism etc. And there are even Jewish groups opposed to that because they say it gives them a bad name!

I wasn't trying to explain Zionism, I was trying to explain anti-Semitism. Do you think that Zionism (if it even existed before the 19th century) explains 20 centuries or more of anti-Semitism?

Monty Burnz

profitius wrote: »

Your opinion again. There was more equality in the old days. Times were tougher but people were happier back then.

And in what sense was there more equality? Exactly when was this golden age?

I take it that you were there?

(apologies for all the questions, but the answers will be revealing )

K-9

profitius wrote: »

Well maybe he had access to information normal people didn't/doesn't.

Maybe. Tbh, the Jews just seem to be one of a litany of groups he attacked.

nyarlothothep

profitius wrote: »

Such as?



Thats entirely your opinion and you're entitled to it. I prefer to see proof but thats just me.



Your opinion again. There was more equality in the old days. Times were tougher but people were happier back then.

Competing discourses as to what defines an ethnic identity for one. Another would be the changing attitudes of each successive generation. For example what constitutes Irishness has changed over many years. Whereas before it may have been to be catholic, agrarian or whatever now its a lot more complex, it could still be this among certain quarters although now you have associations with aethism, corporate greed, materialism and social liberalism with emergent groups. The national psyche is different to what it was in the 50s/60s/70s and for the most part better. Similarly Jewish identity became reinforced after the sacking of Israel but you have many different types of jewish identity depending on geography and culture.

wiki wrote:

However, the validity of the idea of a "national psychology" has been strongly criticized, both for political/moral and scientific reasons.

* Politically and morally, because it is conducive to racist generalisations about people, i.e. arbitrary discrimination between people in accordance with some prejudice or personal interest, which obstructs the acceptance of people as they are. For example, "Africans are lazy", "the Dutch are stingy", "Americans are greedy", "the French are romantic" "the Pakistanis are terrorists" etc. National chauvinism may lead directly to ascriptive discrimination against foreigners, meaning that one's own people are regarded as naturally superior, and foreigners inferior, rather than just different in some respects.

* Scientifically, because it is in reality very difficult to describe and generalise about ethnic differences in a valid and objective way. What applies to a nationality may not apply at all to an individual who is part of that nation. Insofar as the generalizations and distinctions drawn are valid, they may be too general, or require too many qualifications, to be useful.

Part of the problem is that researchers usually interpret another culture from the point of view of the culture they are used to (regarded as "normal"). Even if many people in a country share a common psychological or biological characteristic, other people in that country may not share that characteristic at all. The important ways in which people differ may outweigh the common characteristics which they can all be proved to share.

Psychologists have found in research that when subjects are asked to identify the ethnicity or nationality by observing a line-up of different people, they cannot accurately recognize what their ethnicity is. Marketing and Media experts have found that at most people can identify a representative stereotype, archetype or caricature which symbolises a particular ethnic group, or characteristic ways of relating which a nation has.

Two additional complications are, that:

* the mentality of a nation may change over time, through shared experiences, and therefore that the characteristics which are thought to be "typical" of a nation may change over time. In modern society, often the young generation no longer identifies with the ways of the old generation, including their ideas of national identity and norms.

* large-scale international migration of peoples from different nations means that immigrants take on part of the habits and culture of the country to which they move, while also retaining part of their original culture. In this way, different national cultures are merged and a new culture may be formed which has no clear "national" identification. This, together with the growth of international tourism, also means that people in one country increasingly adopt customs and habits from other countries, so that a nationally distinctive culture declines.

Because of all these difficulties in defining national psychology, often the most insightful portrayals of it are not really "scientific", but are found rather in the metaphors of fiction, for example in novels and films. These can gives insight into the "typical" emotional and intellectual world of a people, without pretending to apply to all its members.

I think its fairly obvious that Flannagan was a bigot in the way in which he was singling out a particular race for the worlds ills.

Yeah it is my opinion that Ireland has improved and I'm glad for it. I can speak freely about religion (disregarding the blasphemy law), I have better living conditions, I live in a more cosmopolitan openminded society with different cultural influences. Corporal punishment no longer exists, people can divorce. I prefer this to the theocratic state that existed 50 years ago, with institutional abuses ignored due to the power of religious orders. I admit there are major problems with Ireland, which need to be addressed, but overall I think the country has improved.

Mahatma coat

I know this may seem a bit Strange to you Narlo but Sometimes people Get Singled out BECAUSE of the things they do.

the Jew has a Historry of being Persecuted for Specific things, yet they keep doing them

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I know this may seem a bit Strange to you Narlo but Sometimes people Get Singled out BECAUSE of the things they do.

the Jew has a Historry of being Persecuted for Specific things, yet they keep doing them

And sometimes people get singled out because people are racist, bigoted scumbags.

So what has "The Jew" done that deserves being persecuted as a whole?

Mahatma coat

Yeah, you seem to be understanding my Point

Sometimes People are unjustly Discriminated against

brimal

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I know this may seem a bit Strange to you Narlo but Sometimes people Get Singled out BECAUSE of the things they do.

the Jew has a Historry of being Persecuted for Specific things, yet they keep doing them

Can you please elaborate?

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Yeah, you seem to be understanding my Point

Sometimes People are unjustly Discriminated against

And that's the difference between us I think, I don't believe there is such a thing as "Just" discrimination.

So again: what has "The Jew" done that deserves being persecuted as a whole?

Mahatma coat

So you dont Discriminate in any way, against any group, either positivley or negativly

What about Nazi's or Pedophiles

brimal

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I know this may seem a bit Strange to you Narlo but Sometimes people Get Singled out BECAUSE of the things they do.

the Jew has a Historry of being Persecuted for Specific things, yet they keep doing them

Can you please elaborate???

King Mob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

So you dont Discriminate in any way, against any group, either positivley or negativly

What about Nazi's or Pedophiles

Yes, probably a little. Doesn't actually make it just.

But I'm sure you can identify the difference between a Nazi or a Pedophile and someone who has a certain heritage.

And again:
what has "The Jew" done that deserves being persecuted as a whole?

Mahatma coat

Maybe you shoulds look into it yourself. Y'd be surprised at all the little things they Do

a lot of it comes from the Mentality of believing that you are

''Gods Chosen People''

Also their historic policies regards treatment of 'Gentiles' would be a major contributing Factor

Basicly rubbing people up the wrong way repeatedly throughout history and then playing the 'Poor Me'card

Mahatma coat

brimal wrote: »

Can you please elaborate???

NO, not for someone who seems to have registered Specifically to bait in this thread.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

King Mob wrote: »

And sometimes people get singled out because people are racist, bigoted scumbags.

So what has "The Jew" done that deserves being persecuted as a whole?

how many times have the jews killed the son of god?