How much are we losing to SHELL?

puffdragon

Someone asked in another forum "how much does Shell make from the Corrib Gas field, my concern is how much are we loosing? I dont have all the answers yet but maybe someone could fill me in, thanks, heres a link to start.

http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eycwkfmhau

muffler

Sorry puffdragon but that is a national issue and certainly not exclusive to Donegal. I can moved it to another forum for you if you wish.

PM me if you want it moved but thread closed for now.

muffler

Moving thread from the Donegal forum to Politics forum

jimmycrackcorm

Given that we would never have been able to extract the gas ourselves then the answer obviously is that we're not losing anything.

whoopdedoo

I have no figures myself either but I have read the deal they were handed and it stinks!! we've been paying for the mapping of our coast line for years and are actually still mapping at our own cost now on behalf of shell!!

supposedly we couldn't have drilled the oil ourselves but I remember reading somewhere about 3-4 years ago that some Irish company were away training some country in oil drilling! I searched for a link to the report but cant find it!

we just have to take back the profits from the oil for the love of god!!!

whoopdedoo

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Given that we would never have been able to extract the gas ourselves then the answer obviously is that we're not losing anything.

I dont believe this for a second, I was speaking to a man recently who worked as a rigger back in the 70/80's around the world and he told me what actually happened off our own coast when oil was found (something along the lines of oil found, recapped and a big hush surrounded the find so the select few could profit thru backhanders!)

brendankelly

The figure is in excess of 420,000,000,000 Euros worth.

As for an Irish company not been able to extract it. Jock Ewing was able to drill for oil for those that can remember Dallas.

slimjimmc

brendankelly wrote: »

The figure is in excess of 420,000,000,000 Euros worth.

As for an Irish company not been able to extract it. Jock Ewing was able to drill for oil for those that can remember Dallas.

Did he drill 83km out into the Atlantic while bobbying on 355m of ocean?

jimmycrackcorm

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I dont believe this for a second, I was speaking to a man recently who worked as a rigger back in the 70/80's around the world and he told me what actually happened off our own coast when oil was found (something along the lines of oil found, recapped and a big hush surrounded the find so the select few could profit thru backhanders!)

Conspiracy forum is next door.

brendankelly

slimjimmc wrote: »

Did he drill 83km out into the Atlantic while bobbying on 355m of ocean?

Are you implying that an Irish company could not extract this oil. If so shame on you.

fifth

Brendankelly, who - and how - can extract this oil in Ireland? I'd love to know?

mgmt

funkyflea wrote: »

Brendankelly, who - and how - can extract this oil in Ireland? I'd love to know?

Tullow Oil.

K-9

mgmt wrote: »

Tullow Oil.

Have they shown much interest in doing it?

Probably need a sticky thread or a super thread on this issue at this stage.

brendankelly

Extracting the oil was never a problem. The problems only started when Shell tried to bring a High Pressure pipe through a local community against the wishes of the local community. There are several oil rigs off the coast of Scotland and many Irish people have worked on them.

Padraig Mor

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I have read the deal they were handed and it stinks!! !!

You haven't really though, have you?

Donal Og O Baelach

funkyflea wrote: »

Brendankelly, who - and how - can extract this oil in Ireland? I'd love to know?

I'd give it a go. When do I start?

mgmt

Padraig Mor wrote: »

You haven't really though, have you?

He read the synopsis on Indymedia. LOL

Fratton Fred

How much oil and gas has actually been produced so far?

big b

OP, if you search this forum for Corrib, you'll find well-informed posts on the actual deal, actual size & worth of the field, and actual tax regime.

I'm on mobile so can't link the thread, but it was fairly recent. I'd strongly recommend having a read.

Pete_Cavan

big b wrote: »

OP, if you search this forum for Corrib, you'll find well-informed posts on the actual deal, actual size & worth of the field, and actual tax regime.

I'm on mobile so can't link the thread, but it was fairly recent. I'd strongly recommend having a read.

See here. Now lets never speak of this again.

Duke Leonal Felmet

I have never understood why it is being leased out to a foreign company. What is the state making from this venture? Why could they not follow Venezuelas lead and nationalise all gas/oil fields?

I know the Irish state has no means of drilling itself, I'm just curious as to what the alternatives are.

johnnyskeleton

How much are we losing to Shell by charging them low taxes? About as much as we are losing to Microsoft by charing them 12.5%.

I'm sure if we raise taxes both companies will stay here because they love us so much.

Duke Leonal Felmet

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How much are we losing to Shell by charging them low taxes? About as much as we are losing to Microsoft by charing them 12.5%.

I'm sure if we raise taxes both companies will stay here because they love us so much.

Microsoft and Shell's presence here are driven by different factors. This should be glaringly obvious.

Pete_Cavan

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How much are we losing to Shell by charging them low taxes? About as much as we are losing to Microsoft by charing them 12.5%.

I'm sure if we raise taxes both companies will stay here because they love us so much.

That is part of the point addressed in the link I posted above. Our tax regime is set to encourage drilling for oil and gas, yet we have no industry while other countries who charge high taxes on it have thriving industries. That should tell you we have very little oil and gas whereas other countries have lots of it. We are not losing money to Shell.

Zynks

I have no problem with the corporation tax applicable to Shell and M$ as long as the tax is really enforced, instead of what is happening today with the loopholes known as Double Irish and Dutch Sandwich (Google it for more info).

The fact is that as it stands we ARE a tax heaven (rather than a low tax country), and if this loophole is used by oil and gas companies the deal is not good for the country.

slimjimmc

brendankelly wrote: »

slimjimmc wrote: »

Did he drill 83km out into the Atlantic while bobbying on 355m of ocean?

Are you implying that an Irish company could not extract this oil. If so shame on you.

Er no, it was a play on your Dallas reference, which I'm afraid you missed.

Bobby

Out of interest, did any Irish company actually express a serious interest and put forward a realistic plan to search for oil/gas and recover it? I always thought that recovery costs were small compared to the cost of research & ocean-based test drilling, and with limited chance of a significant find. I wonder how many Irish companies can risk such a gamble?

Overheal

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Given that we would never have been able to extract the gas ourselves then the answer obviously is that we're not losing anything.

I thought the Irish work force was educated? I'm guessing Saudi Arabia didn't give away their resources to Shell..

LostinBlanch

Well speaking as someone who has actually had conversations with someone heavily involved in mapping Ireland's oceanography. They have been of the opinion that we are being mightily screwed over as regards oil and gas reserves in our waters.

It would be difficult to get a truly independent figure of our reserves as anyone that stands behind them would have difficulty working with any of the major oil companies worldwide after doing so.

K-9

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Well speaking as someone who has actually had conversations with someone heavily involved in mapping Ireland's oceanography. They have been of the opinion that we are being mightily screwed over as regards oil and gas reserves in our waters.

It would be difficult to get a truly independent figure of our reserves as anyone that stands behind them would have difficulty working with any of the major oil companies worldwide after doing so.

It does beg the question, why aren't more oil companies here?

whoopdedoo

there really is no point in tryin to fight for anything in this country anymore!!

It sickens me that I've reached a point where I don't care anymore, yer all welcome to the ****e that is this "state" of "ours", or should I say bankers, big business, pharma, IMF, ECB, Goldman sachs!!

the way ye treat those tryin to speak up with yer snide remarks and mocking ye all fcukin deserve it!!

GG66

Let's be clear on this, Shell are only the company hired to extract the oil & prior to doing so they changed all their filling stations to the name Topaz to avoid any public backlash similar to that experienced in the UK & other countries for their lack or respect for local populations

Statoil are the company behind the project, in other words the Norwegian State..

The Irish Government (well Fianna Fail) could have worked out a deal to retain royalties on anything extracted but chose not to do so ...

Ireland still has an opportunity to negotiate a deal for the rest of our offshore resouces

whoopdedoo

Padraig Mor wrote: »

You haven't really though, have you?

mgmt wrote: »

He read the synopsis on Indymedia. LOL

people like you really piss me off lads but as in my last reply yer welcome to the state yer obviously so happy slaving away in while those at the top give away all the national reserves for brown envelopes!!

and ye think I'm the idiot!!

zig

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I have no figures myself either but I have read the deal they were handed and it stinks!! we've been paying for the mapping of our coast line for years and are actually still mapping at our own cost now on behalf of shell!!

supposedly we couldn't have drilled the oil ourselves but I remember reading somewhere about 3-4 years ago that some Irish company were away training some country in oil drilling! I searched for a link to the report but cant find it!

we just have to take back the profits from the oil for the love of god!!!

Have you a link to the deal? Genuine question, not a snide remark. I do agree with you there, anyone that shows a bit of passion sort of gets laughed at around here. If people think you are wrong they should argue objectively. Its like when people are trying to organise protests or any form of revolt on this site it just becomes a joke by most posters.

whoopdedoo

zig wrote: »

Have you a link to the deal? Genuine question, not a snide remark. I do agree with you there, anyone that shows a bit of passion sort of gets laughed at around here. If people think you are wrong they should argue objectively. Its like when people are trying to organise protests or any form of revolt on this site it just becomes a joke by most posters.

I do not and to find a link online has defeated me! I remember it was a minister outlining the deal but can't remember who, they outlined a little detail on how we've been mapping the Irish coast for years and continue to do so today. they outlined the tax system in place with shell able to write off all it's expenses against tax for a few years before we start to see a few quid coming our way (he actually stood up for shell saying they deserved it after coming here and investing millions to extract the oil in the first place. then he explained how good the Irish government had acted when it had agreed a deal with shell that Ireland could guarantee a certain percentage of supply for our people and that we'd gladly pay going market rates for the pleasure too. he seen absolutely wrong with the deal and actually seemed pleased with it!

I did not read it on indymedia or shelltosea sites and even if I did some people are too quick to rubbish people standing up for what's right from thenice comfy computer chair while others are suffering to try hold up the whole process and show us all what's really going on with OUR FCUKING NATURAL RESOURCES!!

I'm wasting no more of my time on people in this country, I'm emigrating soon and good riddance to this sham democracy and all the ignorant assholes in it!!

listermint

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I do not and to find a link online has defeated me! I remember it was a minister outlining the deal but can't remember who, they outlined a little detail on how we've been mapping the Irish coast for years and continue to do so today. they outlined the tax system in place with shell able to write off all it's expenses against tax for a few years before we start to see a few quid coming our way (he actually stood up for shell saying they deserved it after coming here and investing millions to extract the oil in the first place. then he explained how good the Irish government had acted when it had agreed a deal with shell that Ireland could guarantee a certain percentage of supply for our people and that we'd gladly pay going market rates for the pleasure too. he seen absolutely wrong with the deal and actually seemed pleased with it!

I did not read it on indymedia or shelltosea sites and even if I did some people are too quick to rubbish people standing up for what's right from thenice comfy computer chair while others are suffering to try hold up the whole process and show us all what's really going on with OUR FCUKING NATURAL RESOURCES!!

I'm wasting no more of my time on people in this country, I'm emigrating soon and good riddance to this sham democracy and all the ignorant assholes in it!!

Im interested as to what fabulous glorious green green paradise you are going to?

whoopdedoo

listermint wrote: »

Im interested as to what fabulous glorious green green paradise you are going to?

not that it's any of your business but to put it mildly if I was stuck I would be happier volunteering for the rest of my life in an aids infested African village than be here trying to get through to anyone on the Isle, most friends included!

there's something seriously wrong with the irish psyche IMO!!

don't worry about me listermint, I know where i'm going and what I'm doing, it's the one thing keeping me going right now! I can't wait to see Ireland disappear in my rear view mirror as I roll onto the ferry and never look back

listermint

whoopdedoo wrote: »

not that it's any of your business but to put it mildly if I was stuck I would be happier volunteering for the rest of my life in an aids infested African village than be here trying to get through to anyone on the Isle, most friends included!

there's something seriously wrong with the irish psyche IMO!!

It isnt any of my business, but you seem to have this rose tinted view that the rest of the world is sooo much better. Greed is a human infliction buddy, no matter where you go you will find something to give out about or something that really displeases you.

Why dont you go out an help homeless people here or recovering long term illness patients and do something rather than ranting on the internet.

Everyone always thinks its always nicer over the fence. The fact is its not. I know!

whoopdedoo

listermint wrote: »

It isnt any of my business, but you seem to have this rose tinted view that the rest of the world is sooo much better. Greed is a human infliction buddy, no matter where you go you will find something to give out about or something that really displeases you.

Why dont you go out an help homeless people here or recovering long term illness patients and do something rather than ranting on the internet.

Everyone always thinks its always nicer over the fence. The fact is its not. I know!

thanks for the fatherly advice but I won't be changing my plans

Pete_Cavan

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I do not and to find a link online has defeated me! I remember it was a minister outlining the deal but can't remember who, they outlined a little detail on how we've been mapping the Irish coast for years and continue to do so today. they outlined the tax system in place with shell able to write off all it's expenses against tax for a few years before we start to see a few quid coming our way (he actually stood up for shell saying they deserved it after coming here and investing millions to extract the oil in the first place. then he explained how good the Irish government had acted when it had agreed a deal with shell that Ireland could guarantee a certain percentage of supply for our people and that we'd gladly pay going market rates for the pleasure too. he seen absolutely wrong with the deal and actually seemed pleased with it!

For all those people who think we are giving away our trillions of euros worth of natural resources, can you please explain why practically no oil or gas industry are here taking advantage of these despite the fact that everything has been done to incentivise it?

We are mapping the coast line, charge a tiny percentage of tax when compared to other countries and are even offering to write off the companies expenses. All these private companies are getting a great deal here yet are not operating here. We have no industry to speak of and produce nothing.

This thread and all others like it should be moved to Conspiracy Theories because our natural resources are as real as the Lough Ness monster.

whoopdedoo

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

For all those people who think we are giving away our trillions of euros worth of natural resources, can you please explain why practically no oil or gas industry are here taking advantage of these despite the fact that everything has been done to incentivise it?

We are mapping the coast line, charge a tiny percentage of tax when compared to other countries and are even offering to write off the companies expenses. All these private companies are getting a great deal here yet are not operating here. We have no industry to speak of and produce nothing.

This thread and all others like it should be moved to Conspiracy Theories because our natural resources are as real as the Lough Ness monster.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056135364

listermint

whoopdedoo wrote: »

thanks for the fatherly advice but I won't be changing my plans

I never asked you to. But please dont use the this forum as a platform for your own personal travel plans. Your pushing your own issues down other posters throats and it appears that of your friends.

Enjoy your cosy , crime free, un corrupted, warm, love in paradise.

All though i suspect your going to Oz.


Adios

whatstherush

whoopdedoo wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056135364

Pete asked a very simple question that the thread you linked to doesn't answer. I'll try so. If we're giving the stuff away how come no one is taking it

whoopdedoo

listermint wrote: »

I never asked you to. But please dont use the this forum as a platform for your own personal travel plans. Your pushing your own issues down other posters throats and it appears that of your friends.

Enjoy your cosy , crime free, un corrupted, warm, love in paradise.

All though i suspect your going to Oz.


Adios

your wrong about Oz but then ya could only have pulled that out of your arse!

why would I go down there with all the Gaa jersey wearing worst of the Irish?!?

I'm actually heading for eastern Europe and then onto Vietnam direction in a couple of years.

whoopdedoo

whatstherush wrote: »

Pete asked a very simple question that the thread you linked to doesn't answer. I'll try so. If we're giving the stuff away how come no one is taking it

time will tell I suppose

listermint

whoopdedoo wrote: »

your wrong about Oz but then ya could only have pulled that out of your arse!

why would I go down there with all the Gaa jersey wearing worst of the Irish?!?

I'm actually heading for eastern Europe and then onto Vietnam direction in a couple of years.

Well then as stated, Enjoy your trip. But stop spouting venom, you'll keep your friends that way. They might actually like it here even if it doesnt suit you. Shock Horror.

interrailing was fun, but it can be dodgy out there be safe. Vietnam is fairly well beaten path at this point you'll enjoy that one.

Gyalist

whatstherush wrote: »

Pete asked a very simple question that the thread you linked to doesn't answer. I'll try so. If we're giving the stuff away how come no one is taking it

Are you saying that Shell is exploring out of the goodness of their heart?

Padraig Mor

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I remember it was a minister outlining the deal but can't remember who, they outlined ....... they outlined ...... then he explained.....

So first you READ the deal document, but then it turns out you actually heard someone talking about it, not read it yourself?

I did not read it on indymedia or shelltosea sites and even if I did.......

LOL! :rolleyes:

whoopdedoo wrote: »

and ye think I'm the idiot!!

Yes, yes we do.

whatstherush

Gyalist wrote: »

Are you saying that Shell is exploring out of the goodness of their heart?

Nope, Shell are developing a well that has about 9bn in Gas reserves. There are claims made constantly that we are\have gave away Hundreds of billions of worth of oil and gas reserves. So in that context, why hasn't anyone else brought their free oil and gas ashore?

Padraig Mor

whatstherush wrote: »

Nope, Shell are developing a well that has about 9bn in Gas reserves. There are claims made constantly that we are\have gave away Hundreds of billions of worth of oil and gas reserves. So in that context, why hasn't anyone else brought their free oil and gas ashore?

It's a conspiracy dammit!

Aidan1

Shell are developing a well that has about 9bn in Gas reserves

Nope. At today's prices, exchange rates, and assuming full recoverability (which never happens), it works out at just over €6.4bn.

Overheal

Aidan1 wrote: »

Nope. At today's prices, exchange rates, and assuming full recoverability (which never happens), it works out at just over €6.4bn.

Oh. Only €6,400,000,000... that makes it alright.