Global Revolution?

Rabble Rabble

Dudess wrote: »

Will it or will it not be televised?

The revolution will not be televised.

It will **** up your twitter stream, right enough.

Rabble Rabble

Deleted User wrote: »

Capitalism assumes, well needs, infinte growth to work, those pyramids rise with growth of "disposable" capital, in a declining* world, classical capitalism is doomed to fail.

*If you believe in peak oil and that oil is the primary driver in the worlds economy, then yes, sometime soon the decline will start, some believe it has already started.

I dont believe in peak oil, so we're grand.

( The decline is over-estimated too. It is 2-3 year local decline in some parts of the developed world but the world in total is growing at 5% a year).

saywhatyousee

Eric Cartman wrote: »

capitalism is the best system in the world if your smart enough to get on the right side of it.

life is a giant pyramid scheme, somebody always has to lose, you cant change that, I cant change that, so just dont be on the bottom...

not really interest free money is the only fair system given out by government not private organisations JFK was goin to do it except he went for a drive in dallas

dsmythy

If you thought the oil wars were bad wait until you see the water wars.

QuimWedge

dsmythy wrote: »

If you thought the oil wars were bad wait until you see the water wars.

Cue Kevin Costner

Amhran Nua

Capitalism is what people do when you leave them alone. Communism is a bad idea and genuinely evil, since you have to send everyone who doesn't agree with you to a concentration camp to make it work. Its adherents latch on to any morally positive movement going and then try to rebrand that as far left, usually damaging that movement in the process. This is where we get the watermelons.

Likewise it is considered acceptable to support any violent outbreak going on in the world, for no good reason I can ascertain, which is why you'll see the "rentacrowd" types protesting everything under the sun. "In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things."

There's a lot more, but basically we could do without them.

Thats not to say that left thinkers have nothing to offer, they do, the trick is to take the good ideas and ditch the ideology. Pure capitalism doesn't work either, you have to pick the best bits from all sides.

Rabble Rabble

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

I dont believe in peak oil, so we're grand.

( The decline is over-estimated too. It is 2-3 year local decline in some parts of the developed world but the world in total is growing at 5% a year).

Maybe you can explain why oil prices went up in 2009 while the recession was in full swing and hasn't stopped rising since and why food prices have jumped up as well.

I know about the floods and the heatwaves and other crazy weather but they only partially explain it, growing food for biofuel has slowed down the decline in oil supply a bit while robbing land from food crop production.

The recent world growth is simply a rebound from the 2008 panic.

QuimWedge

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe you can explain why oil prices went up in 2009 while the recession was in full swing and hasn't stopped rising since and why food prices have jumped up as well.

If you understand supply and demand then you will know why oil prices continue to rise. Add to that unrest in oil producing countries from civil or natural disruption then we see the current peak in oil prices. Oil is used by economists as a market leader this is because so many industries rely on it, hence why food prices rise.

What everyone has failed to mention so far is the global population. This is going to have a huge impact within the next few years as the population bulges towards the 9 billion mark. Without the use of GM crops we will not be able to feed everybody.

Amhran Nua

QuimWedge wrote: »

Without the use of GM crops we will not be able to feed everybody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVOU5bfHrM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXrN9HhnCcM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBS6f-JVvTY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUY4ztwIVfA

Its not the most in depth look, but it gives a good overview. The population is meant to top out around 9 billion in 2050 and stay stable at that level for the indefinete future, probably even dropping a bit over time.

QuimWedge

I stand by what I said.

Sticky_Fingers

Guill wrote: »

I just ran to my window and had a look out!
Seems fine to me.
Just two cows strolling accross a field.
Ill wait here, watching,and keep ye informed as soon as i see this revolution.

I'd be suspicious of those cows, don't you know they are talking about a revolution. It sounds like a whisper.

_sparkie_

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH7GPPpsw6g&feature=player_embedded

Run_to_da_hills

The forthcoming Global Revolution will usher in the "New World Order"

An age of smart cards, microchips and totalitarian control.

Johro

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

The chances of a left wing revolution are 0%. We are going to vote Fine Gael.

How f#ckin depressing... But likely.
No change for the better then. If ya want change, don't keep voting for the usual suspects.

Johro

Just had a look at the latest boards.ie election results, it's so predictable it makes ya want to emigrate. I've had it with the same old crowd, hearing the same voices, seeing the same faces, very disappointing result so far.
If it's what the eventual outcome will be, I'm gone.

HellFireClub

Hill Billy wrote: »

Tunisia, Egypt = Uprising
Greece = Riots
Ireland = Calls for an early election

I think that capitalism is safe & sound in Ireland for the time being.

What we have in Ireland is not capitalism or anything remotely close to capitalism. What we have here is state sponsored corporate welfare on two ends of the system, one end that throws state funds at multinationls in order to secure their FDI, because we lack the confidence to create sustainable jobs in this country, despite congratulating ourselves at every opportunity for being the best educated race on earth.

Then on the other side of the system, state sponsored corporate welfare kicks in for those that are "too big to fail", via bailouts that get strapped to the backs of the taxpayer...

The basic rule of capitalism, which is that, "success is rewarded and failure is punished", is not evident in this country, innovation is imported, yet another cornerstone of capitalism that is replicated here but doesn't actually exist...

hairy sailor

Hill Billy wrote: »

Tunisia, Egypt = Uprising
Greece = Riots
Ireland = Calls for an early election

I think that capitalism is safe & sound in Ireland for the time being.

But we did take a stance,
Down with that sort of thing,
Careful now

Johro

Holybejaysus wrote: »

"World Revolution". The only two words in the English language guaranteed to make a starry eyed student jizz their pants. :rolleyes:

Ah those students. Poor naive little students... Wanting the world to be a fairer place for everyone.. How laughable. What a waste of energy. Ooh the match is on... (adjusts crotch, farts)

HellFireClub

Johro wrote: »

Just had a look at the latest boards.ie election results, it's so predictable it makes ya want to emigrate. I've had it with the same old crowd, hearing the same voices, seeing the same faces, very disappointing result so far.
If it's what the eventual outcome will be, I'm gone.

I reckon it's a useful analysis to look at Ireland at the moment through the lens of Dante's Inferno... If you think that there isn't another circle of hell that we can yet fall into in this country, I reckon we are only half way down to where we are going to inevitably going to find ourselves ending up...

In support of that contention, we are never going to get out of this situation until we have a clear and believable vision for jobs, and 30,000 people running up and down the country in white vans with lagging jackets just doesn't cut it in my opinion, we need to set targets, evaluate the national skillset, then incentivise innovation to drive activity and growth in the areas where we are strong and create jobs.

We are a million light years from doing this at the moment, and as I said, 30,000 assumed jobs based on lagging jackets doesn't cut the mustard in my view, such rubbish is an affront to those that are trying to start businesses in this economy, I've been doing it for the last 18 months and you'd get more thanks and support for staying on the dole in this country.

Johro

Funding is only a problem if you accept the bankers’ agenda. Fine Gael, Labour, Sinn Fein, The Greens and the discredited Fianna Fail party all accept the notion that banks generate wealth and so ordinary people in Ireland should bear the cost of saving them.
We reject this nonsense.

The banking sector has not generated wealth it has created a national debt bigger than the nation’s GDP. It is Irish workers who create wealth and we continue to generate more than is spent on wages, public services and welfare. Far from being unable to afford to keep our present level of services we create enough wealth each year to increase provision to include the items called for in our programme.
In 2010 alone public spending could have been increased by some €55 billion without creating a deficit if we had not thrown wealth into the failed banks.
It is the other parties who need to come clean about their plans. They will try to convince you that if we all take a little bit more pain and take good care of “Irish” banks we will soon return to the glory days of the Celtic Tiger. Not much comfort to the hundreds of thousands who never experienced any of the benefits of sustained growth but it is far worse than that.
In 2010 almost €5 billion was paid by the state in interest alone. This is roughly 10% of tax revenue and with unemployment increasing and more money thrown at the banks this percentage will only rise. This is just
interest, without actually reducing the debt. A cap of €9 billion has been set on the education budget until 2014.
You are being asked to value the failed banks at more than half the total education budget indefinitely. Ask yourself – and ask other candidates – how long would it take you to get back on your feet if you owed 100% of your annual wage, had to pay it back at more than 10% of your take-home pay and were still running up further debt ?
Those that accept that the banks must be saved are condemning Irish workers to a return to the poverty of the past.

We will have a third world health service, a third world education service and our children and our grand-children will still be in hock to the banks.


Courtesy of the ULA. Can't argue with it really.

QuimWedge

QuimWedge wrote: »

If you understand supply and demand then you will know why oil prices continue to rise. Add to that unrest in oil producing countries from civil or natural disruption then we see the current peak in oil prices. Oil is used by economists as a market leader this is because so many industries rely on it, hence why food prices rise.

What everyone has failed to mention so far is the global population. This is going to have a huge impact within the next few years as the population bulges towards the 9 billion mark. Without the use of GM crops we will not be able to feed everybody.

Yes I do and yes I've already mentioned it further up it was a rhetorical question.
Population is a serious issue, globally it's OK, it would be OK if the people lived equally and were equally dispersed, which they don't and they're not!

As it is we have huge populations in areas that can't sustain such populations, they must import food (and water in some cases) to survive, the production and transportation of that food is largly oil dependant.

The current situation in Egypt demonstrates this problem exactly.
http://www.theoildrum.com/files/Oil%20production%20exports%20Databrowser.png
This is a chart showing Egypts oil exports, they have dropped to zero! so now they depend on the export of gas.
http://www.theoildrum.com/files/Egypt_Natural%20gas_consumption_Exports.png
but at the rate they're using it themsselves, they'll soon be unable to export that either. How do they provide their citizens with food? They can't grow enough to support their rapidly growing population.
http://www.theoildrum.com/files/Egypt_databrowser_population.png


Full explination here http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7425#more
Egypt is in it up to their necks, regardless of who's in charge.

Johro

1. End the bailout of banks and developers.

The ULA says scrap NAMA and end the bailout of the banks and developers. Take the banks, finance houses, major construction companies and development land into democratic public ownership and use them for the benefit of people, not the profit of the few. Democratic public ownership of the banks would guarantee the savings of ordinary bank account holders but would give no commitment to pay the bondholders and financial speculators who helped cause the global crisis.
We want to use resources, including the huge numbers of vacant properties, to provide facilities and social and affordable homes for all, to buy or rent.
Reduce total mortgages and repayments to affordable levels to reflect the real cost of the property and outlaw repossessions/evictions of families from their homes on the basis of inability to pay.
2. Tax the greedy not the needy

Ireland is not a poor country. Massive amounts of wealth were generated during the boom. The problem is that such wealth is in the hands of a tiny superrich minority. We completely reject the notion that all this wealth has suddenly disappeared. It is also the case that many companies, especially multinationals, remain profitable.
The ULA stands for a progressive taxation system where corporation tax on the massive profits made in Ireland would be increased, which together with a steeply progressive income tax would shift the tax burden from working people to big business and the rich.
We also demand a wealth tax on the assets of the rich, increases in capital gains tax and an end to all tax loopholes for the rich.
We oppose all stealth and double taxes including bin charges and plans to introduce water charges, a property tax, or a “household tax”. We oppose the inclusion of the low paid in the tax net.
3. End the jobs crisis

The ULA condemns the complete failure of the government and the private sector to preserve or create jobs. Their policies are deflationary and are making the jobs crisis worse.
We call for a real social development programme that could create hundreds of thousands of jobs building necessary infrastructure like public transport, green energy projects, broadband, child care, schools, hospitals, health centres and other community facilities.
We oppose plans to sell off state companies. Instead these companies should be used as the vehicle for job creation.
End the reliance on the private sector, use democratic public ownership of wealth and natural resources and the banks to provide jobs by the launching a state programme of industrial development and innovation to build the productive capacity of the economy. Take the Corrib Gas Field into public ownership.
Reduce the working week without loss of pay and create tens of thousands of jobs by sharing out the work.
No to compulsory work for dole schemes or fake jobs. We demand real jobs and a reversal of all the cuts in social welfare and benefit payments.
4. Reverse the cuts – Defend public services

The ULA says end the profiteering in health care. We stand for a properly funded and resourced public health system, free at the point of access and paid for through a progressive tax system. No privatisation of health services and end all subsidies to private care. No co-location of private hospitals on public hospital lands.
We demand proper state funding for a democratically run and secular education system, free for all from early childhood to university. For more teachers to reduce class sizes and special needs and language support so the needs of all children are met. End all subsidies for private schools. No re-introduction of third level fees, pay students a living grant instead.
No to the cuts in social welfare payments or pensions and no to the cutting, taxing or means testing of child benefit.
For a mass campaign by the trade union movement and the communities to reverse the cuts in public services.
We want real reform of our public services. Its time to stop copying failed private sector practices. We want an end to inflated salaries, bonuses and expenses for top public servants and politicians. We want a cap on salaries and full public scrutiny of public spending. Public services should be run democratically with the full involvement of the workers, the service users and the wider community.
5. Equality for all

The ULA supports equality for all and the elimination of all forms of discrimination based on gender, race, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, disability or age.
We support a campaign by the trade unions to unionise all workers and for the legal right to trade union recognition.
End all anti-asylum seeker and anti-immigrant laws and bias by the state.Give asylum seekers the right to work and give both asylum seekers and
migrant workers the same rights as all other workers, to help fight “the race to the bottom” in pay and conditions.
We support full equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people, including the right to marry for same sex couples.
6. Protect the environment

Despite the rhetoric, environmental destruction is continuing apace. We call for major state investment in developing renewable energy. Through public ownership and democratic planning, the economy can be redirected onto a sustainable path.
We need real reform of our planning system, so that people’s needs and environmental protection come before the profits of developers. We call for major investment in community facilities, waste management, recycling facilities and public transport.
We are opposed to incinerators as a solution to the waste problem because they pose serious health risks. We call for a proper integrated waste management plan, including a drastic reduction of packaging combined with a serious approach to recycling and composting.
7. Build a real left alternative in Ireland and Europe

The formation of the ULA is part of a process across Europe and internationally of the development of movements and organisations to fight the attacks on workers, the unemployed and the poor and to fight for a new vision for society.
We are opposed to the dictates of the EU and its neo liberal policies of curbing public spending and promoting austerity. The policy of driving down public spending to meet EU imposed targets will destroy jobs and lead to misery for workers, the unemployed and the poor. Workers did not create the debt and should not have to pay for it.
We are committed to building solidarity with workers across Europe to forge a new direction which puts the needs of workers and the unemployed before the greed of speculators and profiteers.
An important part of this is the urgent need to reclaim and rebuild the trade unions and to mobilise the power of workers though mass action. The approach of Social Partnership has left workers defenceless and has led to a massive transfer of wealth from workers to employers and must be scrapped.
Our elected TDs will give full support to those unions and workers who oppose the Croke Park deal and will use the Dail to raise the real issues that affect ordinary working people.


Can't argue with that either.

That reads like a party political broadcast!

mickydoomsux

_sparkie_ wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH7GPPpsw6g&feature=player_embedded

Yeah you should definitely put stock in that buffoon.


He'll say anything he's paid to say.

Amhran Nua

Deleted User wrote: »

As it is we have huge populations in areas that can't sustain such populations, they must import food (and water in some cases) to survive, the production and transportation of that food is largly oil dependant.

Cities have been around for a while, in fairness.

There is no food crisis impending, there is no energy crisis impending, there is no overpopulation crisis impending, globally there's really nothing to worry about. In a hundred years time your great grandchildren will be looking back at the time of fossil fuels in the same way we look at horses and carraiges. Global warming is happening but no matter what we do it will be dykes all round regardless, so may as well get used to that idea, which is still not the end of the world - ask the Dutch.

There are local problems, and there always will be local problems, but these get resolved, until the next one arises.

Barring some unforseen disaster like a worldwide contagion (quite unlikely), an asteroid strike (vanishingly unlikely) a nuclear war (all but impossible at this stage), or some other event, we can quite comfortably cruise off into the future ad inifinitum, every generation having a better quality of life than the last.

This of course depends on the local issues being resolved, like our own political quagmire.

As for the ULA, "End the reliance on the private sector" pretty much says it all, those chuckleheads want to turn Ireland into a communist state, complete with gulags for those people who don't feel like handing over the deeds.

Capt'n Midnight

Global Revolution?

there's one every 24 hours :pac:

Johro

Deleted User wrote: »

That reads like a party political broadcast!

It does alright. Not saying that's what I'm voting for, but I'm defo not voting for FF, FG, Labour or the Greens. Out with the old and all that.

Capt'n Midnight

there is a correlation between per capita GDP and the length of time a democracy survives


http://invisiblecollege.weblog.leidenuniv.nl/2007/12/02/democracy-and-development

One of the most interesting findings findings is due to Adam Przeworski, a political scientist at NYU. I quote below from his article "Self-reinforcing democracy":

The probability that a democracy survives rises steeply in per capita income. Between 1950 and 1999, the probability that a democracy would die during any year in countries with per capita income under $1,000 (1985 PPP dollars) was 0.0845, so that one in twelve died. In countries with incomes between $1,001 and $3,000, this probability was 0.0362, for one in twenty-eight. Between $3,001 and $6,055, this probability was 0.0163, one in sixty-one. And no democracy ever fell in a country with per capita income higher than that of Argentina in 1975, $6,055. This is a startling fact, given that throughout history about seventy democracies collapsed in poorer countries, while thirty-seven democracies spent over 1000 years in more developed countries and not one died.

...

Thus countries with a high income per capita are the countries where democracy is likely to survive (since the poor are not THAT poor and the wealthy still make enough that they will not rebel against a 15% capital gains tax or 50% tax on their marginal income). Of course, this finding is more about the stability of democracies than their emergence. Here the evidence is more mixed - democracy is most likely to emerge in middle-income countries. If a country is poor democracy is unlikely to emerge. If a country makes it to high income status without undergoing transition to democracy, it is likely to remain a dictatorship. Some countries have transitioned to democracy after long periods of economic growth while others have transitioned after an economic collapse or slump.

Johro

Amhran Nua wrote: »

As for the ULA, "End the reliance on the private sector" pretty much says it all, those chuckleheads want to turn Ireland into a communist state, complete with gulags for those people who don't feel like handing over the deeds.

Gulags?? Grow up. Socialism isn't 'Communist Russia' , you're being slightly hysterical to say the least. That's conservative conditioning for ya, anything that could be of benefit to working people must be ridiculed and dismissed. Preserving the status quo is what they're all about.

Johro

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Cities have been around for a while, in fairness.

There is no food crisis impending, there is no energy crisis impending, there is no overpopulation crisis impending, globally there's really nothing to worry about. In a hundred years time your great grandchildren will be looking back at the time of fossil fuels in the same way we look at horses and carraiges. Global warming is happening but no matter what we do it will be dykes all round regardless, so may as well get used to that idea, which is still not the end of the world - ask the Dutch.

The Dutch system to protect the country from the sea is called the Delta works and something on that scale requires huge investment and incurs massive maintenance costs annually, and it's not finished. Yes it can be done, but not as easy as you'd think, especially considering the financial situation.
Also, look at the size of Holland compared to Ireland, it's much smaller and only has coastline on its west side, where Ireland being an island may as well forget about such a sea defense, it wouldn't be practical. You seem to be making lots of sweeping statements without being informed.