Pearse Doherty's Education

martic

Seems like Pearse Doherty might have been misleading people about his 3rd level qualifications, it kind of has me thinking if someone seems too outspoken and passionate in their political ability does there be more attention put on them to find scandal than their good points. I don't know will this affect him at all but I can see some people using this to say that he's a liar on the run up to the elections.
http://www.highlandradio.com/2011/02/03/pearse-doherty-accused-of-misleading-public-on-his-education/

Fiskar

I know the Institute of Engineers of Ireland will not be happy. They are unhappy in general about people claiming to be qualified Engineers when they are not. You are not qualified as an Engineer especially if you quit the course before taking and passing the exams. You simply cannot claim to be something you are clearly not.
Smacks of ethics in office already being flouted already.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I'd care if I was employing him as an engineer.

walrusgumble

Wasn't there a bit of up roar when Bertie claimed to have studied in UCD and the authorities there stated that there was no record of it, economics I think he claimed to have studied.

johngalway

walrusgumble wrote: »

Wasn't there a bit of up roar when Bertie claimed to have studied in UCD and the authorities there stated that there was no record of it, economics I think he claimed to have studied.

Bertie did study Economics.

Precisely, how to be economical with the truth.

Where he studied it, well, that's another thread.

stimpson

Fiskar wrote: »

I know the Institute of Engineers of Ireland will not be happy. They are unhappy in general about people claiming to be qualified Engineers when they are not. You are not qualified as an Engineer especially if you quit the course before taking and passing the exams. You simply cannot claim to be something you are clearly not.
Smacks of ethics in office already being flouted already.

Says here that he's a Civil Engineer Technician rather than a Civil Engineer. Smacks of a smear campaign to me.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=23&MemberID=2216&ConstID=205

UDAWINNER

stimpson wrote: »

Says here that he's a Civil Engineer Technician rather than a Civil Engineer. Smacks of a smear campaign to me.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=23&MemberID=2216&ConstID=205

Agreed, u think the media would have better things to do, but when it comes to a SF Candidate, all gloves are off. Better to smear a good candidate than go checking Micheal Martins links to crony developers.

Permabear

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Fiskar

Fiskar wrote: »

I know the Institute of Engineers of Ireland will not be happy. They are unhappy in general about people claiming to be qualified Engineers when they are not. You are not qualified as an Engineer especially if you quit the course before taking and passing the exams. You simply cannot claim to be something you are clearly not.
Smacks of ethics in office already being flouted already.

Anyone can call themselves an engineer, the title is (unfortunately) not protected in this country. If he said 'Chartered Engineer' I'd agree with you, but 'qualified' engineer means nothing. So not much of a story.

A Dub in Glasgo

As above

I am a Chartered Engineer, I know for a fact that anybody can call themselves 'Engineer' as there is no protection of the title. Fecking hell, even bookies call themselves Accountants and I bet they did not even study Accountancy!!

Must try harder at the smears

Permabear

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Permabear

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A Dub in Glasgo

Permabear wrote: »

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Why should not have called himself a civil engineer?

A Dub in Glasgo

Permabear wrote: »

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If a bookie described himself as a 'turf accountant' I would have no problem. If he called himself a 'financial accountant' I would.

The issue is not whether the title of engineer is "protected"; it's that Doherty has been deliberately misleading people into presuming that he has qualifications that he does not.

The issue here is there is no issue

Loughderg

Any one smell desperation. Must be an election coming. Lol.

Chucky the tree

If there is no issue why did he have it changed? False information about his qualifications have been up on his website, for a party who try blow their own trumpet(although not very well) about honesty it doesn't look good for him at all.

Permabear

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A Dub in Glasgo

You guys are extracting the urine.

Somebody who is techically a 'Technician' calling themselves an 'Engineer' is not false information or claiming a false qualification. The descriptions are interchangable by the vast majority of people and companies.

There is no Engineer qualification: If I am mistaken, one of you guys can let me know?

A Dub in Glasgo

Permabear wrote: »

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I think not as there is no substance claiming false qualifications in this instance. Please let me know what you find and I will retract everything if there is an Engineer qualification.

Permabear

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The Waltzing Consumer

Didn't Sarah Palin have to clarify her qualifications too after she made up stuff?

As for it being a non-issue, I disagree. Any manager looking at a CV and discovers there is dishonesty or an inaccurate job title will certainly take exception to that and I have known people to lose their jobs for embellishing the truth. It would put me off voting for someone if they are lying about their qualifications or using inaccurate job titles.

It is pretty simple, if he worked as a civil engineer, then that was a past career. If he did not work as a civil engineer but as a civil engineer technician, then that is a lie.

LeixlipRed

On the Frontline just before the by-election I clearly remember him stating he was an engineering technician. Anyway any vt of him actually stating he's an engineer? Not defending or attacking here, just curious.

donkey balls

I have worked with all sort of engineers having the title of engineer yet there qualifications are from different industries,One a Flight engineer the other an industrial engineer and a aircraft engineer.
People might assume that if your an engineer that your involved in construction/infrastructure which is a load of crap.

A Dub in Glasgo

Permabear wrote: »

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That right because a vet is called a veterinary engineer

The descriptions are interchangable and if you ever worked in the engineering field you would know that. Just look at most of the jobs which companies call engineer and tell me what they are. This is a nothing issue and stinks of a smear campaign.

Have you found the qualification details yet?

Fitzerb

Permabear wrote: »

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Would the anti FF grouping ( The high Moral Ground Tiger Cubs) please let us know where lying sits on the corruption scale.

ArtSmart

Permabear wrote: »

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probably. although in fairness the public tend to expect shennigans from FF and are rarely disappointed.

bit of a mountain out of a molehill this.

not pro shinner, but i do like to see a bit of anger in the aul Dail, even if it's from a minority party. and whatever else about him, Doherty has brought a bit of much needed fire into the fray. if he a technician or a troubadour it's all the same to me, long as he fulfills his senatorial duties, both implicit and explicit.

jodaw

RachaelVO wrote: »

Big brother has arrived in a somewhat blustering style. A last minute rubberstamping of Eamon O'Cuivs Public Services Card scheme has been confirmed. Has big brother finally arrived? Is this just a desperate act of an out going minister?


http://www.thejournal.ie/last-minute-rubberstamping-of-public-service-cards-scheme-a-costly-political-stunt-2011-2/?utm_source=facebook

Nothing like a bit of old fashion mud slinging. From what I can see he can hold his own in general debating very well. The man has the interest of the country at heart. Fcuk educmacation, it ain't worth ****...

Shinners No1 by default

Chucky the tree

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

That right because a vet is called a veterinary engineer

The descriptions are interchangable and if you ever worked in the engineering field you would know that. Just look at most of the jobs which companies call engineer and tell me what they are. This is a nothing issue and stinks of a smear campaign.

Have you found the qualification details yet?

I'll ask again, why did he change it?

A Dub in Glasgo

I dunno, he may have inadvertently used the wrong description.

Now, what qualification did he falsify?

The Waltzing Consumer

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

That right because a vet is called a veterinary engineer

The descriptions are interchangable and if you ever worked in the engineering field you would know that. Just look at most of the jobs which companies call engineer and tell me what they are. This is a nothing issue and stinks of a smear campaign.

Have you found the qualification details yet?

Sinn Fein voter right? Man, if this was FF or FG, you would be singing a completely different tune and attacking. Basic google search tells me the education, course content, salary and workload are different for civil engineer and civil engineer technician.

Only way this is okay if Pearse was actually employed as a civil engineer. Otherwise, lies.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Sinn Fein voter right here. Man, if this was FF or FG, you would be singing a completely different tune and attacking.

Really? I can you no chance as this is a nothing story and would be just as nothing if it was anyone else.

Basic google search tells me the education, course content, salary and workload are different for civil engineer and civil engineer technician.

What qualification is he falsify

Permabear

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A Dub in Glasgo

Permabear wrote: »

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What qualification did he misrepresent?

The Waltzing Consumer

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

What qualification is he falsify

I don't think the claim is that he falsify a qualification. It is that he has not been clear about his career. As I said, civil engineer and civil engineer technician are two separate things with different salaries, different qualifications, different workload. Now if Pearse worked as a civil engineer, that is fine, he should state it, and that is that. But if he worked as a civil engineer technician but decided that civil engineer sounded more fancy, that is deceitful.

You said that these things are interchangeable, so that would mean he worked as a civil engineer and a civil engineer technician, if we are to believe him. So why would he suddenly change his personal info to reflect the lower profession?

Permabear

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A Dub in Glasgo

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

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Really?

martic wrote: »

Seems like Pearse Doherty might have been misleading people about his 3rd level qualifications[/url]

Permabear wrote: »

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Chucky the tree wrote: »

If there is no issue why did he have it changed? False information about his qualifications

Permabear wrote: »

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You said that these things are interchangeable, so that would mean he worked as a civil engineer and a civil engineer technician, if we are to believe him. So why would he suddenly change his personal info to reflect the lower profession?

As anyone can call themselves an engineer even when doing stuff like mechanic or technician type work, the term is interchangable by companies and people in those roles.

Permabear

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A Dub in Glasgo

Permabear wrote: »

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No, it is a simple and obvious enough question though. There is a claim that he falisfied his qualifications, I am looking for substanstiation.

that anybody who wants can call himself a "civil engineer." In that case, I'm a civil engineer. You're a civil engineer. Everybody and his dog is a civil engineer. Which is just absurd.

You are right it is absurd and that is not the fault of you, me or Doherty. It results from not protecting the title Engineer. Anybody can call themselves an engineer and many people do and many companies offer engineer in the job that is more suited to technician. Now the key difference is if they call themselves a Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer or Eur Ing then they have to have qualifications to obtain them.

LeixlipRed

Perhaps he delegated the task of putting those qualifications online to another, a miscommunication perhaps. No one has posted anything about him referring to himself as an engineer. See my post where I said I recall him explicitly mentioning the fact he was an engineering technician on the Frontline.

Dublinman12

Permabear wrote: »

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Did Bertie Ahern not claim to have an accountancy qualification??turned out he didnt have anything never mind 2 years of a 3 year course.....he was the taoiseach and a Fianna "Money grabbing" Failler.The mud slinging is starting....and i can bet you are voting Fianna Fail....

Ill be voting for anyone but the FF...And if thats Labour or SF then so be it...

The Waltzing Consumer

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Really?

As anyone can call themselves an engineer even when doing stuff like mechanic or technician type work, the term is interchangable by companies and people in those roles.

Okay. All of this is perfect dodging the main point which is pretty rude. All I am saying is that if he did not work as a civil engineer and knowingly put that on his personal info for the voting public, then he lied.

You have dodged other posters comments and questions too and using typical political methods of dodging the questions. I really dislike that nonsense and it is pretty obvious.

He either misled and lied, or he is being honest and the guy worked as a civil engineer. That's it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Permabear wrote: »

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Not utter nonsense at all, what level of engineering experience do you have and how many times have you heard somebody calling themselves an engineer or a company advertise an engineer?

I phoned BT the other day and they said they will send an engineer out. Same with Sky TV. These guys are technicians at best or most likely installers.

martic

LeixlipRed wrote: »

On the Frontline just before the by-election I clearly remember him stating he was an engineering technician. Anyway any vt of him actually stating he's an engineer? Not defending or attacking here, just curious.

Listen he clearly states at 13.48 when asked by Pat that he's a Civil Engineer but in my opinion I hope he has learned a valuable lesson after today that now he is in the spot light, everything from his election to the Dail is going to be scrutinized by the opposite parties and the media for flaws.He definitely made a blunder on this one but I'd forgive a blunder like this than one that has put the country into billions of Euros of debt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnEurVdFqwo

Permabear

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The Waltzing Consumer

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Not utter nonsense at all, what level of engineering experience do you have and how many times have you heard somebody calling themselves an engineer or a company advertise an engineer?

I phoned BT the other day and they said they will send an engineer out. Same with Sky TV. These guys are technicians at best or most likely installers.

Stop with the dodging :rolleyes:
Stick to the topic.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Okay. All of this is perfect dodging the main point which is pretty rude. All I am saying is that if he did not work as a civil engineer and knowingly put that on his personal info for the voting public, then he lied.

You have dodged other posters comments and questions too and using typical political methods of dodging the questions. I really dislike that nonsense and it is pretty obvious.

He either misled and lied, or he is being honest and the guy worked as a civil engineer. That's it.

The original poster (and others) said he misrepresented his qualifications not job title or description or is this a case of people using job title and qualification to mean the same thing? That would be an example of an interchangeable description and if it is OK for one, surely it is OK for another?

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Stop with the dodging :rolleyes:
Stick to the topic.

Which is? misrepresenting qualifications?

Chucky the tree

Watching that video he's clearly lied and mis-led the public about his qualifications. It makes you wonder what else he has lied about in his short political career.

The Waltzing Consumer

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The original poster (and others) said he misrepresented his qualifications not job title or description or is this a case of people using job title and qualification to mean the same thing? That would be an example of an interchangeable description and if it is OK for one, surely it is OK for another?

Which is? misrepresenting qualifications?

Unbelievable! :mad:
Stop with the politics and twisting words to suit your agenda.
Was he honest or dishonest?
Has he been employed as a civil engineer or not?

Permabear

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The Waltzing Consumer

This is the exchange on Frontline. The audience member asks "what business experience do you have?" to each of the candidates. So Pat asks "what his business experience is" to Pearse and Pearse says "I am not a business man etc.," then Kenny follows on with "what is your qualification? what is your job?" and Pearse Doherty replies "I am a civil engineer and a full time elected representative".

Since Kenny has asked two questions, I would have assumed Pearse is answering them in the order "qualifications, job" which he responded "civil engineer, elected representative".

If someone asked you what your qualifications and job were, you would answer "my degree is in ..., my diploma is in ...and I work in ...".

So one could argue this could be lying about college qualification or work position. Or Pearse could be telling the truth, not have the qualification in Civil Engineering but has been employed, without a qualification, to be a civil engineer. I hope he discloses which it is.

the groutch

serious case of trying to make mountains out of molehills

and it would still pale in comaprison to the lies of the outgoing government, especially Comical Lenny

"cheapest bailout ever"
"we've turned a corner"
"we're not talking to the IMF"