Dark Souls

[CrimsonGhost]

So playing through with my first proper tank build, all points going into Str or End, currently rocking full havels (minus shield AND ring), and black knight sword. He's slow, but enjoying the completely different play style, and flattening people.

Before I started I decided I was going to try ring the lower bell first, by the time I went for the parish bell Lautrec wasn't in his cell, nor was he back at firelink, and as soon as I rang the parish bell he did the dirty at firelink, so I'd no way to avoid that happening. So word of warning if you don't want to have to deal with him in Anor Londo, be sure to ring parish bell first so you can deal with him, or at least visit there first to deal with him.

Also, as I didn't go near the Taurus bridge I haven't met Solaire for the first time yet, and he has not been at any of the other locations. I'm wondering will that mean that without Chaos covenant I can still save him?!

Cravez

[CrimsonGhost] wrote: »

Before I started I decided I was going to try ring the lower bell first, by the time I went for the parish bell Lautrec wasn't in his cell, nor was he back at firelink, and as soon as I rang the parish bell he did the dirty at firelink, so I'd no way to avoid that happening. So word of warning if you don't want to have to deal with him in Anor Londo, be sure to ring parish bell first so you can deal with him, or at least visit there first to deal with him.

That's weird, I'v rang the Lower Bell first many times and I'v seen him before ringing the Parish Bell. I cannot remember exactly if when you do ring the Lower Bell that he automatically goes to Firelink Shrine or you have to get him out of his cell. Also I have noticed that sometimes when he does go to Firelink Shrine, if you go back sometimes he just isn't there. Then when you go back again later on he is. It's just weird at times.

[CrimsonGhost] wrote: »

Also, as I didn't go near the Taurus bridge I haven't met Solaire for the first time yet, and he has not been at any of the other locations. I'm wondering will that mean that without Chaos covenant I can still save him?!

The only way to save him is to join the chaos covenant. Even if you haven't met him first at the Taurus/Dragon Bridge his story will still continue and you'll still see him at the various parts through Lordran. I think there is a big though that if you go to the closed shortcut in the Demon Ruins and you throw Toxic Dung at the door, the toxic actually kills the offending maggot(s). Don't count me 100% sure on that but I remember reading something like that before.

I think one character you do have to meet in sequence (at least once in Sen's Fortress) to follow his story fully is Siegmeyer.

OdgeXD

Michael Cravez wrote: »

That's weird, I'v rang the Lower Bell first many times and I'v seen him before ringing the Parish Bell. I cannot remember exactly if when you do ring the Lower Bell that he automatically goes to Firelink Shrine or you have to get him out of his cell. Also I have noticed that sometimes when he does go to Firelink Shrine, if you go back sometimes he just isn't there. Then when you go back again later on he is. It's just weird at times.



The only way to save him is to join the chaos covenant. Even if you haven't met him first at the Taurus/Dragon Bridge his story will still continue and you'll still see him at the various parts through Lordran. I think there is a big though that if you go to the closed shortcut in the Demon Ruins and you throw Toxic Dung at the door, the toxic actually kills the offending maggot(s). Don't count me 100% sure on that but I remember reading something like that before.

I think one character you do have to meet in sequence (at least once in Sen's Fortress) to follow his story fully is Siegmeyer.

Poison or Toxic Mist through the closed door will kill the Sunlight Maggot, no need to join the covenant at all unless you need the Pyromancies

TimeToShine

So I've been playing this game non-stop for about two weeks or so and I have a few comments to make. Just to give some context I finished it about 20 minutes ago in ~90 hours (probably way longer than most people) and more importantly I did not use any guides/online videos/wikis etc. I never have used them and I hope not to in future. The only "help" I got was for the Drake Sword near the beginning due to my brother blurting out that I should hit the Wyvern's tail (and by extension this required him to show me where the merchant is). Other than that it was a completely solo effort, and I mean that.

This game is, in my opinion, for significant chunks more obtuse than it is difficult. Don't get me wrong, It's a brilliantly fun, addictive, challenging game and the fact that I put 5+ hours a day into it is a testament to this. Still, I think there are a lot of cheap tricks employed that are there wholly to piss you off moreso than they are challenging. For instance, take the level in the Undead Burg where you have to get from the Bonfire under the bridge to the Taurus demon and then past the Wyvern. There are so many cheap tricks employed in this stretch that it is astounding. Rather than actually being challenged you are forced to die over and over again just so that you can progress slightly further. This is NOT how a challenge works. Challenges imply that skilled gamers can bypass them reasonably well whereas amateurs will struggle. In Dark Souls it's a matter of treating every death as a learning experience, except the system forces you to redo everything you have already done anyway, so much so that it gets to the point where you are so frustrated you start cocking up in places you had previously bypassed, which leads to a vicious circle resulting in the system being turned off. Consider this; A newb (such as myself) gets past the skeletons (a feat in itself considering how rather steep the learning curve for combat is), sees a corridor, walks down-killed by the black knight. Lesson: Don't go down that corridor. Next time...Get to the tower (difficult enough in itself when you're starting out)-Go down- killed by that guy Havel who drops the ring in one hit; Lesson: Don't go down. Next time, Get to the tower, go up, somehow have to fight and kill a boss. Furthermore, you then have to get across a bridge with a murderous fire-breathing dragon and cop that there is a ladder you kick down to get you to the first bonfire again. I personally believe I spent the best part of 15 hours just on that part of the game. Without guidance (which I didn't use) that stretch of the game is completely ludicrous. A game is not "challenging" if it forces newbs to either a) quit the game or b) look up guides on youtube and the wiki.

The logic above I can apply to a lot of the game but I don't think that's fair because most of it was fairly fluid. Aside from that the only place that really pissed me off was Sen's fortress. I think I spent another 20 hours on this, purely because I DID NOT KNOW THERE WAS A FREAKING BONFIRE!!! Thank Christ I killed that Golem the third time around or else I would most definitely have snapped the disc in half and that would have been the end of it. Only afterwards does my brother come in and tell me that you can hop down some ledge to the bonfire. I defy any players to tell me they found that bonfire on their first runthrough without help, it's almost impossible.

The summoning/invading system is not explained properly at all. The covenant system is good but once again absolutely no explanation. Anyone trying to play this game without constantly flicking online through guides (as I did) was screwed. The consequences for leaving covenants are not explained at all, nor was the PvP system, humanity/hollowing or most of the lore. I understand that people don't like the storyline being shoved down their throat but as far as I was concerned I was told to ring two bells and that was that. A few people made the odd appearance here and there but not enough to have me actually engage with the story. I'll start reading about the lore now that I'm finished the game but my point is this should not be necessary.

Overall it's a tremendous game, beyond addictive and I don't think I'll ever play another game which kills me so frequently and has me coming back for more. Having said that, in my opinion it should not be praised as "the game of the last gen" as it seems to be according to a lot of people in the other thread. Dark Souls is not a game, it is a collective attempt to piece together a shambolic attempt at a storyline by the online community. It's almost as if the game is a supplement to what is going on online and judging by this thread, the wiki and countless other online sources it seems that, as a standalone game, it has not succeeded.

Once again, don't get me wrong. This is the best game I've played in years. It is a welcome change from the usual hand-holding that takes place but before you judge it I urge you to look at it from the point of view of a newb or more importantly someone without the internet before you can qualify it as a) an actual stand-alone game and b) the greatest game of the last gen.

The biggest problem with this game is the elitism it inspires; You have guys following youtube videos to the letter and then laughing at newbs and calling them "casuals" because they didn't complete Dark/Demon's Souls. For some absurd reason it has become a modern benchmark for gaming difficulty, even though I don't think there is a single game with more walkthroughs and online information available today.

To summarise, I think Dark Souls as a standalone game is a failure. I may be overtly harsh in this analysis but people need to remember what a game actually is. If I turn off my modem/laptop/smartphone and pop my disc into the PS3/Xbox/PC I should be able to actually PLAY the game without constantly referring to help. I am sure there are skilled gamers out there who have done just that and I commend them, but the majority are not good enough to get through a game this taxing without help and that's that. Judging by the last 20 mins of scanning online the amount of material available is incredible, and as a collective effort by the community it is astounding. The best possible scenario is DS2 inspiring a similar level of online co-operation while refining some of the more lacking elements such as explaining the basic concepts a bit more clearly and perhaps a more engaging PvP system.

tok9

I agree with you on Sens Fortress.. I had no idea there was a bonfire there.. Good thing the boss wasn't too difficult.

krudler

Agree with nearly all of that^ I did use boards and a wiki at times and winged it the rest, and there's definitely parts you'll miss entirely without someone pointing it out, but that community aspect adds to it imo. I wouldnt view it the same as using a FAQ to get through some standard game, it's essential if you want the most out of it to have some pointers from other players. I can't wait to be in on the ground level with Dark Souls 2, day one, no wikis, seeing peoples reactions to thing and being in a totally new environment, but having the mechanics and techniques down from the first one.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

krudler wrote: »

Agree with nearly all of that^ I did use boards and a wiki at times and winged it the rest, and there's definitely parts you'll miss entirely without someone pointing it out, but that community aspect adds to it imo. I wouldnt view it the same as using a FAQ to get through some standard game, it's essential if you want the most out of it to have some pointers from other players. I can't wait to be in on the ground level with Dark Souls 2, day one, no wikis, seeing peoples reactions to thing and being in a totally new environment, but having the mechanics and techniques down from the first one.

if you plan to play on pc then none of that will be true, by the time we get to play the wikis will be half filled and the threads on forums around the world will be full of secrets and stories we'll have had to avoid since march 14th

krudler

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

if you plan to play on pc then none of that will be true, by the time we get to play the wikis will be half filled and the threads on forums around the world will be full of secrets and stories we'll have had to avoid since march 14th

I'm a console peasant, in on the ground floor on day one with the rest of the low framerate (please let them have fixed this) monkeys.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

krudler wrote: »

I'm a console peasant, in on the ground floor on day one with the rest of the low framerate (please let them have fixed this) monkeys.

prick

krudler

tok9 wrote: »

I agree with you on Sens Fortress.. I had no idea there was a bonfire there.. Good thing the boss wasn't too difficult.

Even less so if you summon Tarkus, I just let him off and run in to twat the Golem in the ankles

krudler

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

prick

I'm really looking forward to that "ooooh don't like this" feeling of starting anew, what's that in the distance? can i go in here? wtf is that thing, runnnn! aaand I'm dead.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

krudler wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to that "ooooh don't like this" feeling of starting anew, what's that in the distance? can i go in here? wtf is that thing, runnnn! aaand I'm dead.

same. really all i want from 2 is 1 all over again but new areas/enemies. i want to be lost and confused, then be beaten into the ground for half an hour before I make it past that gate I see in the distance.

HURRY UP MARCH

TimeToShine

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

same. really all i want from 2 is 1 all over again but new areas/enemies. i want to be lost and confused, then be beaten into the ground for half an hour before I make it past that gate I see in the distance.

HURRY UP MARCH

I'll be getting it on release as well but if there's one thing I'm sure of it's that nostalgia is a wonderful thing! It seems like the kind of game where you have to be "connected" so to speak to get the full experience so i'll probably be online from the get go. Rather than do another run-through on NG+ I think I'll start from scratch and actually make a proper build...I had about 18 Resistance and 14 faith as a pyromancer which I only began to realize at the end are both useless skills.

Vicxas

TimeToShine wrote: »

I'll be getting it on release as well but if there's one thing I'm sure of it's that nostalgia is a wonderful thing! It seems like the kind of game where you have to be "connected" so to speak to get the full experience so i'll probably be online from the get go. Rather than do another run-through on NG+ I think I'll start from scratch and actually make a proper build...I had about 18 Resistance and 14 faith as a pyromancer which I only began to realize at the end are both useless skills.

Cant wait to do everything wrong the first time and then go back and do it wrong 700 more times

krudler

TimeToShine wrote: »

I'll be getting it on release as well but if there's one thing I'm sure of it's that nostalgia is a wonderful thing! It seems like the kind of game where you have to be "connected" so to speak to get the full experience so i'll probably be online from the get go. Rather than do another run-through on NG+ I think I'll start from scratch and actually make a proper build...I had about 18 Resistance and 14 faith as a pyromancer which I only began to realize at the end are both useless skills.

Resistance is totally pointless alright, you find enough rings, armour and shields along the way to boost all that and really it's only a few areas where curse and poison resist actually come into play. Dex and endurance are the job however, wish I'd known that starting out, roll roll stab stab, feel the pointy end of my Balder sword/Uchi setup mwahahaha Although caving things in with a double handed Zweihander never gets old, delighted to see it returns in DS2.

OdgeXD

I'm torn between getting the bog standard edition or the collectors edition. That statue is kinda cool..

Cravez

Since I haven't followed news on DS2 to not spoil anything, just realising that the PC version is being released after consoles is a downer. Anyone know specifically when it's released on PC for Europe?

OdgeXD

No official date but they want it released in the same period, so not too long after, maybe

krudler

OdgeXD wrote: »

I'm torn between getting the bog standard edition or the collectors edition. That statue is kinda cool..

Think I'll get the black armour version, comes with the soundtrack and a steelbook case but not the statue, and the cover is badass

DarrenLyndon

krudler wrote: »

Think I'll get the black armour version, comes with the soundtrack and a steelbook case but not the statue, and the cover is badass

Yeah i think the black armour edition looks sweet and will be my first choice.

krudler

I posted this already but the site being out of action yesterday wiped the post, was in Anor Londo letting myself be summoned and was called into this guys game along with another dude, so the three of us are plodding along the big bridge and down to the area where you go up towards the silver knight archers and this other guy invades your mans game, he obviously only spotted the host as me and the 2nd summoned guy were fighting the gargoyles so we went back and the invading dude did a 180 and legged it lol I love how random pvp stuff can get.

Icaras

TimeToShine wrote: »

The summoning/invading system is not explained properly at all. The covenant system is good but once again absolutely no explanation. Anyone trying to play this game without constantly flicking online through guides (as I did) was screwed. The consequences for leaving covenants are not explained at all, nor was the PvP system, humanity/hollowing or most of the lore.

I understand that people don't like the storyline being shoved down their throat but as far as I was concerned I was told to ring two bells and that was that. A few people made the odd appearance here and there but not enough to have me actually engage with the story. I'll start reading about the lore now that I'm finished the game but my point is this should not be necessary.

Id agree with you about everything in the first paragraph. The good thing is I imaging DS2 should sort all of these out.
For the second paragraph for me

Frampt

explains why you need to defeat

Gwyn

. I have given out about the ending in this thread but up to when I was facing Gwyn to me it was clear.
For the lore part the pieces and hints are there and sometimes imagination, observation and leaps of faith are needed - if this was done on purpose its genius, if by accident its a very lucky accident or a half finished story, as you point out.

The main reason I love this game is the community it brought together, even in this thread there is a lot more encouragement and people offering good advice than nobs bragging about how great they are at it. Even things like summoning, people hanging around areas for 20 or 30 mins to sometimes get more souls and humanity but sometimes to just help some stranger to beat a boss or getting the enjoyment of beating a boss again. Ive never experienced a community like this before with any other game again if this is on purpose its genius.
I think DS2 will show if From Software got lucky with DS or if they are the amazing development studio I think them to be (I havent played Deamon Souls so cant compare).

eddhorse

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/01/06/dark-souls-cafe-opens-in-tokyo-showcasing-the-world-of-dark-souls-ii/?utm_content=buffer79963&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer

Dark Souls Cafe in Tokyo

krudler

I got summoned by a guy then he got invaded, it tooks ages for the invading guy to show up and I could hear someone saying "I'm sorry" over and over? anyone know what that was about? we killed the invader then both me and the guy who summoned me died instantly?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

krudler wrote: »

I got summoned by a guy then he got invaded, it tooks ages for the invading guy to show up and I could hear someone saying "I'm sorry" over and over? anyone know what that was about? we killed the invader then both me and the guy who summoned me died instantly?

then who was phone?

OdgeXD

krudler wrote: »

I got summoned by a guy then he got invaded, it tooks ages for the invading guy to show up and I could hear someone saying "I'm sorry" over and over? anyone know what that was about? we killed the invader then both me and the guy who summoned me died instantly?

You get items in the township that have those phrases, there are a few but not sure what they all say. Probs a hacker if you all died

[CrimsonGhost]

TimeToShine wrote: »

I finished it about 20 minutes ago in ~90 hours (probably way longer than most people) and more importantly I did not use any guides/online videos/wikis etc.

I did similar, although my time was about 70 hours iirc, and from many subsequent play throughs I know I missed large sections. The one thing I looked up was how to access the DLC, and even then I skipped Manus and Kalameet before killing Gwyn for the first time.

I recommend you watch this series of lore videos, generally considered by most to be the best out there - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWLedd0Zw3c5RCXboUsPwHsZJlXB2CzCz

It was definitely frustrating, but take the wyvern on the bridge, did you look at the bridge before first crossing, it's covered in dead bodies and it's surface is all charred, it should point to something being amiss. The hints are there, you just aren't spoon fed. And as for Sens, while it was frustrating, it was also my favourite section of the game, and remains so, there's so much hidden there if you go exploring.

krudler

OdgeXD wrote: »

You get items in the township that have those phrases, there are a few but not sure what they all say. Probs a hacker if you all died

It was weird alright, we were in the room in Anor Londo where Solair is sitting at the bonfire and the message popped up that someone had invaded. We went out and the guy appeared, I hit him twice and the guy who summoned me then killed him, and then we all just dropped dead, was bizarre.

krudler

[CrimsonGhost] wrote: »

I did similar, although my time was about 70 hours iirc, and from many subsequent play throughs I know I missed large sections. The one thing I looked up was how to access the DLC, and even then I skipped Manus and Kalameet before killing Gwyn for the first time.

I recommend you watch this series of lore videos, generally considered by most to be the best out there - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWLedd0Zw3c5RCXboUsPwHsZJlXB2CzCz

It was definitely frustrating, but take the wyvern on the bridge, did you look at the bridge before first crossing, it's covered in dead bodies and it's surface is all charred, it should point to something being amiss. The hints are there, you just aren't spoon fed. And as for Sens, while it was frustrating, it was also my favourite section of the game, and remains so, there's so much hidden there if you go exploring.

The bridge section I agree with, I stood there for ages deciding whether or not to leg it ha it just looks too easy.

Sen's was completely frustrating at first but speedrunning it is good craic, the only bit I hate is the final walkway that's really thin and has one of those annoying lightning flinging serpent guys on it, getting the timing right and just sprinting straight across the walkways with the pendulums on them is fun.

OdgeXD

I've always legged it over the bridge, isn't that the way you're supposed to do it?:P