How to Use A Roundabout

-Chris-

Slick50 wrote: »

He's talking baloney, if there is only "one lane on the exit", you should be in the left lane as you approach.

But in the instance he gave, there's not only "one lane on the exit".

Edit: or maybe not, I read it as a two lane exit that merges into one.

Slick50

-Chris- wrote: »

Edit: or maybe not, I read it as a two lane exit that merges into one.

Probably what he meant, but not what he said. And these are the words of wisdom from the "experts"!

-Chris-

Slick50 wrote: »

Probably what he meant, but not what he said. And these are the words of wisdom from the "experts"!

So, is your issue with the fact that he has bad advice (which he hasn't imho), or that he's not great at describing it clearly?

Slick50

-Chris- wrote: »

So, is your issue with the fact that he has bad advice (which he hasn't imho), or that he's not great at describing it clearly?

Both!

I don't agree with his advice, as where two lanes on exit merge into one, road markings dictate which has priority. Also how do you know which lane narrows untill you get there.

The fact that "clarity" in wording, or the lack of it, is what has caused this entire thread.

Ev84

When i was getting lessons for my full drivers licence (just needed 1 lesson 2 saturdays in a row to get out of my bad habits) the instructor always told me that if the turn is past 12 0'clock ( you being in the center with your back to 6 ) to go into the right lane to go around. He was good as my girlfriend and i both passed first time with only 2 lessons each. Haven't crashed into anyone on a roundabout yet anyway, touch wood ha ha so I'll go with the right lane.

besides, regardless of what lane you are in, once you are on the roundabout, people joining onto the roundabout at the next turn have to yield "right of way" to you. In the event of an accident where someone coming on collides with you, i'm pretty sure they would be at fault seen as you were already gone nearly 1/3rd of the way around. Obviously you were first onto the roundabout. Aren't you meant to yield to traffic that is already on the roundabout? Impossible on a very busy roundabout, i know. you would be waiting all day...

I would approach in the right lane, go around clock-wise indicating right until i pass the first exit then indicate left to let anyone coming onto the roundabout know that i intend on turning off next exit... I could be wrong though there has been a few valid points on taking the left lane... what do you all think?

Bigcheeze

Ev84 wrote: »

When i was getting lessons for my full drivers licence (just needed 2 lessons, 2 saturdays in a row to get out of my bad habits) the instructor always told me that if the turn is past 12 0'clock (you being at 6) to go into the right lane to go around. Haven't crashed into anyone yet anyway ha ha so I'll go with right lane.

In most situations you want have any problem with that method and in most situations you won't have any problems with the sequential method. If you have good awareness of what's going on around you, you won't have a problem on the odd occasion when the two methods conflict.

vibe666

Iwannahurl wrote: »

"After 12 o'clock" is sufficient information.

i used to think so too, but after reading this thread i'm not so sure! :P

vibe666

Bigcheeze wrote: »

In most situations you want have any problem with that method and in most situations you won't have any problems with the sequential method. If you have good awareness of what's going on around you, you won't have a problem on the odd occasion when the two methods conflict.

some of the best driving advice i ever got when i was learning was to drive like every other person on the road is an idiot.

if you assume people are going to do stupid things you'll be better prepared for the times when someone DOES do something stupid near you and be able to act accordingly.

i think of it as a kind of mental seatbelt. you don't put your seatbelt on every time you get in your car because you are expecting to crash, you put it on so that in the unlikely event that you do, you're prepared for it.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

theteal wrote: »

I really dont see the debate. Its the second exit, left lane every time, just because it's beyond 12o'clock makes no difference

Ki ki wrote: »

Anyone who answered "right" should surrender their license to help keep our roads safer.

This is the problem, we are thought completely different things when we are learning to drive. The instructor I had, the tester and several others who thought me how to drive would say that anything left of 12 o clock is the left lane, anything right of 12 o clock is the right lane.

In many cases there shouldn't be a problem either way, it's when both drivers think they are in the right and refuse to give the other driver right of way. What does it say in the rule book?

-Chris-

Zara Abundant Seaweed wrote: »

What does it say in the rule book?

Are you serious???

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

-Chris- wrote: »

Are you serious???

Yes. Quite...

Ev84

vibe666 wrote: »

some of the best driving advice i ever got when i was learning was to drive like every other person on the road is an idiot.

good advice right there... no matter how careful you are there is always gonna be an idiot near you or driving in the on-coming lane a few times per day. I don't mind L-drivers, they are usually more careful imo.. a little slower but thats understandable. I'ts the cocky "I'm the real Stig" drivers i fear more. (I'm not bad mouthing The Stig, I think the man is a genius behind the wheel, I love his skill)

Bigcheeze wrote: »

In most situations you want have any problem with that method and in most situations you won't have any problems with the sequential method. If you have good awareness of what's going on around you, you won't have a problem on the odd occasion when the two methods conflict.

True that, I guess as operators of 1-2 tonne machines we are expected to pay attention and maintain good awareness. and Rightly so. The consequences of failure far out-weigh the time you were trying to save by cutting someone off or bursting onto the roundabout in front of traffic to get to your destination that bit quicker.

Ev84

The gap in the poll results is gone down to 19 votes :eek: It's interesting how its nearly 50/50. I wonder which lane is actually the correct lane? left or right?

vibe666

Ev84 wrote: »

The gap in the poll results is gone down to 19 votes :eek: It's interesting how its nearly 50/50. I wonder which lane is actually the correct lane? left or right?

i actually think that the 'right' option (hints in the name ) has actually been gaining a tiny bit of ground (a fraction of a %) in the last few days, even tho it's been a pretty even split up to now.

Slick50

Ev84 wrote: »

The gap in the poll results is gone down to 19 votes :eek: It's interesting how its nearly 50/50. I wonder which lane is actually the correct lane? left or right?

The correct lane is the righthand lane. Not because it is beyond the twelve o'clock position, but because the main road is the first exit, which is also two laned. the second and third exits are both only single laned.

I have to confess that I origionally voted left, but that was before I realised that the approach road and first exit were dual carriage ways.

Why can't we change our votes in boards' polls?

Iwannahurl

Slick50 wrote: »

The correct lane is the righthand lane. Not because it is beyond the twelve o'clock position, but because the main road is the first exit, which is also two laned. the second and third exits are both only single laned.

I have to confess that I origionally voted left, but that was before I realised that the approach road and first exit were dual carriage ways.

Why can't we change our votes in boards' polls?

Would you know all of the above if you were approaching the same roundabout by car?

Ev84

vibe666 wrote: »

i actually think that the 'right' option (hints in the name ) has actually been gaining a tiny bit of ground (a fraction of a %) in the last few days, even tho it's been a pretty even split up to now.

oh right. only following since yesterday. ya i said right is right too ha ha (pg. 39 i think), some official clarification would be handy. Everyone is 100% certain that they are right but around 50% of us are wrong... funny. some good points raised by both sides.

Slick50 wrote: »

Why can't we change our votes in boards' polls?

You should have the option to change votes alright, opinions change... or just 1 re-vote per person or something would do it. The last thing you want is unlimited vote changes as the polls would be constantly fluctuating out of control...

Slick50

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Would you know all of the above if you were approaching the same roundabout by car?

At the risk of sounding like a smart arse, yes, but only because of the actual road signage, as posted earlier in the thread. I know we have been discussing how we would decide if there was no signage. But the original question was specifically based on the overhead picture provided. And having looked closer at that, I think the righthand lane would be correct.

Ev84 wrote:

You should have the option to change votes alright, opinions change... or just 1 re-vote per person or something would do it. The last thing you want is unlimited vote changes as the polls would be constantly fluctuating out of control...

If you could withdraw your original vote first, it would give a more accurate picture. But yes it could be limited to one or two retractions.

-Chris-

Slick50 wrote: »

Why can't we change our votes in boards' polls?

I can edit the poll, would you like your vote changed?

Slick50

-Chris- wrote: »

I can edit the poll, would you like your vote changed?

Yes, please. It would be a usefull feature for general use, like in the GE poll. What are the chances? Sorry for going off topic.

-Chris-

Slick50 wrote: »

Yes, please. It would be a usefull feature for general use, like in the GE poll. What are the chances? Sorry for going off topic.

Done.

I can't change features on the site, but you could certainly suggest it in the Feedback forum.

vibe666

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Would you know all of the above if you were approaching the same roundabout by car?

the 2nd exit is shown as a single carriageway in the roundabout sign due to the thinner line shown by comparison to the other exits, so technically speaking you would have known in plenty of time (in the OP's roundabout example) by looking at the sign on approach.

of course, to be truly 100% sure, you'd need to take into account the tidal flows, phase of the moon and the time of year as well as the time of day and which way the wind was blowing. :pac:

Ev84

Slick50 wrote: »

If you could withdraw your original vote first, it would give a more accurate picture. But yes it could be limited to one or two retractions.

I know i said "re-vote" but i meant 1 change of your vote, like change it from one to the other, not put in another opposing vote as doing so would cancel out your two votes. One vote for left and one vote for right equals waste of time.

By fluctuating i meant everyone changing votes at the same time as soon as a good point is made. Then later that evening an even stronger point is made for the other side and everyone reverts back. Over and over and over, it would be annoying. Hence my suggestion for 1 vote, then 1 chance to change it.

Chris was good to change it for you, I'm happy with my vote for "right" but i bet a good few posters, like you, have changed their minds since the start.

sorry too for being off topic, just needed to clarify myself. done now, carry on.

Ev84

vibe666 wrote: »

of course, to be truly 100% sure, you'd need to take into account the tidal flows, phase of the moon and the time of year as well as the time of day and which way the wind was blowing. :pac:

Aaaaaah ha ha ha ha ^^^^:D

All very important factors in "roundabout decision making"

vibe666

Ev84 wrote: »

Aaaaaah ha ha ha ha ^^^^:D

All very important factors in "roundabout decision making"

its starting to feel like it in this thread.

who knows, maybe some enterprising fortune teller could set up a caravan before the roundabout and divine the correct lane from the tealeaves for each motorist? :pac:

Bigcheeze

Ev84 wrote: »

The gap in the poll results is gone down to 19 votes :eek: It's interesting how its nearly 50/50. I wonder which lane is actually the correct lane? left or right?

Well i think either lane is legitimate which probably explains the split. The rsa seem to suggest the same in their email responses to iwannahurl which were basically "sure do whatever you fancy"

Ev84

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Well i think either lane is legitimate which probably explains the split. The rsa seem to suggest the same in their email responses to iwannahurl which were basically "sure do whatever you fancy"

Thats true i suppose but i understood the e-mail to be "what would you do in general on a roundabout?" to which the RSA had to give a basic answer. Perhaps if the photo on pg.1 was shown and we asked the RSA what to do on this particular roundabout their answer might be a bit more precise

Iwannahurl

Ev84 wrote: »

Thats true i suppose but i understood the e-mail to be "what would you do in general on a roundabout?" to which the RSA had to give a basic answer. Perhaps if the photo on pg.1 was shown and we asked the RSA what to do on this particular roundabout their answer might be a bit more precise

I'm sort of glad you asked that question.

I emailed the OP's roundabout pic to my correspondent in the RSA along with these questions:

• Q1: Do you take the left-hand lane or the right-hand lane when traversing this roundabout in the direction indicated by the arrows?
• Q2: Can you explain all your sequential choices of lane positioning, indicating etc, with reference to the current Rules of the Road? In other words, can you 'narrate' your rule-based behaviour on the roundabout step-by-step, describing how the RoTR guidelines determine each step? Please assume that you are explaining the process in detail to someone who has never seen a roundabout!

Unfortunately I didn't get a quotable response unequivocally relating to the OP's roundabout, as in answer to Q2 my correspondent referred me to an earlier email sent in relation to a different roundabout. I therefore have to derive the RSA's answer from two separate communications.

• A1: Without the benefit of advance information signs at the National, Primary & Local level that is available on approach to Roundabouts in the UK, and without the benefit of being able to clearly see what if any road markings exist, within the lanes themselves I would suggest the right hand lane is used on the approach (in accordance with the information supplied in my email of 4th February 2011).
• A2: Use MSMPSL* routine on approach (signaling Right as exit is past 12.00 o clock); Use Right hand lane on approach; Move across into Left hand lane and exit roundabout in the left lane (could need to begin to move slightly earlier, depending on traffic density)

To summarise, therefore: I asked the RSA rep to (a) select the appropriate lane in the illustrated example, and (b) to explain that lane choice with reference to the actual guidelines set out in the Rules of the Road.

The response (melding replies from two emails) was: 'I would suggest the right hand lane is used on the approach, turning Right, signaling Right, as exit is past 12.00 o clock.'

Personally, I think it is notable that the RSA rep did not refer to the actual text of the RoTR, instead invoking the 12 o'clock rule, which as we all know is not mentioned at all in that document.

Why do you suppose that is? I'm a bit perplexed and sceptical, but maybe others don't interpret this situation the way I do.









*Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Position, Speed & Look

Ev84

Good follow-up @iwannahurl.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

A2: Use MSMPSL* routine on approach (signaling Right as exit is past 12.00 o clock); Use Right hand lane on approach; Move across into Left hand lane and exit roundabout in the left lane,
Personally, I think it is notable that the RSA rep did not refer to the actual text of the RoTR, instead invoking the 12 o'clock rule, which as we all know is not mentioned at all in that document.

strange isn't it?

Ev84 wrote: »

the instructor always told me that if the turn is past 12 0'clock ( you being in the center with your back to 6 ) to go into the right lane to go around...

Sound familiar? Maybe the instructors have a "secret rule book" :D:D

J_R

Hi,

The exit is to the right, so you take the right lane.

As per the ROTR it is to the right of 'straight ahead'

After describing how to take the straight ahead, next paragraph

Taking any later exits;

* Signal right and approach in the right-hand lane.
* Keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout.
* Check your mirrors, signal left and proceed to your exit when it is safe to do so.
* Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want to take.

The UK Highway code is slighty clearer

When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise
* signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
* keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
* signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want

UK Highway Code

Driving instructors usually explain how to determine if the exit is "to the Right" by using the clock face. This is usually understood by most people.

Only once did I have a pupil who misunderstood, when I only used the "Before twelve, after twelve" explanation method. Asked her if she understood and she said .
Yes, soo interesting, I never knew that there was different rules for before and after midnight. (But she was a blonde )

However I now also use gestures, drawings and on the drawings I mark the exits A, B, C.

Just for boards.ie have made a video. Unfortunately it was going to rain so little dark and rushed

Roundabout 2nd exit

http://goo.gl/maps/U0q0