VW reliability and reputation

endamurtagh

VW = Aerodynamic tractors

Tea 1000

gpf101 wrote: »

I haven't seen a single golf with a broken brake light. You must be unlucky.

I don't remember the last time I've seen a Golf in the last 10 years with all its lights working properly. You must be very lucky!

I think the Boards opinion of VW is worse than the reality. There is a major problem with the Irish and brand loyalty to anything VAG, not admitting to any of the problems their VW had.
I think in the engine department, apart from a few dogs, and a few that should have been killed off long before they were, VW aren't bad. Better quality control in their assembly might bring them back. They're still excellent at quality feel and noise insulation in the cabin, and a feeling of quality in the interior assembly. That's part of the battle really, everyone here criticises the Avensis for being the exact opposite, a quality dash that feels and looks cheap.

Nissan doctor

Tea 1000 wrote: »

They're still excellent at quality feel and noise insulation in the cabin, and a feeling of quality in the interior assembly. That's part of the battle really, everyone here criticises the Avensis for being the exact opposite, a quality dash that feels and looks cheap.

This is the chief problem with the German brands and VW in general. Surely people would rather have a car with a bit of a plasticy dash that rarely has to go near a garage outside it servicing requirements?

IMO, there are two types of people who buy German cars:
1, those who are not informed and are still under the pre 90's impression that German cars are bullet proof.
2, Those who want the world to think they have bought a premium product, and actually put up with and argue against any quality issues so they can keep this impression up.

Its not even like the German brands have excellent customer service to counter the quality of the their cars..the arrogence of the dealers is as bad as the manufacturers.

Its the same mentality as those who have a Prius and vainly attempt to argue that it is actually doing something for the environment when, in reality, it says 100% more then it does!

Zubeneschamali

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Surely people would rather have a car with a bit of a plasticy dash that rarely has to go near a garage outside it servicing requirements?

Not me.

Nissan doctor

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Not me.

That's what makes the world such a diverse place....and keeps garages and recovery companies in business:D

BostonB

Nissan doctor wrote: »

This is the chief problem with the German brands and VW in general. Surely people would rather have a car with a bit of a plasticy dash that rarely has to go near a garage outside it servicing requirements?...

Within reason no as well. That said there was that Corona with the brown dash that we won't mention. I've certainly lived with the reliable plastoc iky dash options at time.

Tea drinker

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Why do people think they only give a 2 year warranty when the trend is to give more...

IMO VW/BMW/Audi/Mercedes engineer their cars to last the warranty period. After that they know that because of the marketing and the amount of gullible people who buy their cars based on nothing but the marketing ploys and the ridiculous notion that only the main dealers can do the job right, they will make a killing on parts supply!

It's at least 6 years powertrain in the states, plus in other ways they cover a LOT more stuff, loads of recall stuff in the states that they don't bother with here.

Nissan doctor

Tea drinker wrote: »

It's at least 6 years powertrain in the states, plus in other ways they cover a LOT more stuff, loads of recall stuff in the states that they don't bother with here.

What they do in the states has no relevance here. firstly people in the states will simply let their solicitor deal with any issues they have with a car. The powertrain warranty is very limited when you read the small print, it covers the main mechanical parts, pistons, crank, gears, drive shafts etc etc not electrical parts and cars in general in the US put up high mileage but its almost all highway miles which means very little drivetrain wear. Also, the vast majority of issues are with the small capacity petrol and diesels which make up the vast % of engines sold here. In the US market, they use mostly the large capacity petrol engines in all models which are generally much more reliable anyway.

And the main reason the Americans see the Germans as so reliable is that compared to American domestic cars of the last 30 years anything would be more reliable.

Tea drinker

It has as much relevance as what they do anywhere else. So basically you are saying that as long as we take it VW should dish it out?

The US agencies also can put pressure to issue recalls. Something that would never happen here.

And the 1.8t engine was very popular in US, obviously the likes of 3.2 and W8 are viable too, but the same faults that affect the same cars here are ignored by VW.

Tea 1000

Nissan doctor wrote: »

This is the chief problem with the German brands and VW in general. Surely people would rather have a car with a bit of a plasticy dash that rarely has to go near a garage outside it servicing requirements?

IMO, there are two types of people who buy German cars:
1, those who are not informed and are still under the pre 90's impression that German cars are bullet proof.
2, Those who want the world to think they have bought a premium product, and actually put up with and argue against any quality issues so they can keep this impression up.

Its not even like the German brands have excellent customer service to counter the quality of the their cars..the arrogence of the dealers is as bad as the manufacturers.

Its the same mentality as those who have a Prius and vainly attempt to argue that it is actually doing something for the environment when, in reality, it says 100% more then it does!

Why can't we have both a nice interior and a reliable car?
To be fair, VW have had many reliability issues, but not too many that would leave you stuck. I also think that the Germans do have diesel technology sorted a bit better than the Japs do.
OK, VW were late to the CR game, and their initial teething problems do seem to be resolved now. BMW's swirl flaps issues also seem to be in the past, and 184bhp with over 50mpg is very impressive.
I think no manufacturer is as reliable as they were in the 90's. Too complicated and built to a price now-a-days.

ashleey

Google vag abs failure 2005-2007. Then ask me how much it cost me to repair my Audi q7. 'luckily' Audi UK, where I bought it, shared the cost. No chance will I ever shell out big money on a german car again. On the flip side if a French car crashes into you guess which one you would be most likely to walk away from?

Tea 1000

ashleey wrote: »

Google vag abs failure 2005-2007. Then ask me how much it cost me to repair my Audi q7. 'luckily' Audi UK, where I bought it, shared the cost. No chance will I ever shell out big money on a german car again. On the flip side if a French car crashes into you guess which one you would be most likely to walk away from?

French cars do very well, and are often class leading in crash tests. Renault have put massive effort and frequently have topped their class in NCAP tests.

Nissan doctor

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Why can't we have both a nice interior and a reliable car?

That is a very good question...


As as for VW in the US. There have been several articles over the last couple of years from the US describing VW north America as a "company in crisis" and competing increasingly poorly against the much improved quality of Toyota and Hyundai.

ashleey

Ncap tests are one thing. Real crashes are another but I agree the improvements are huge hence I am changing car and a ford or Peugeot are looking favourite

-Corkie-

ashleey wrote: »

Ncap tests are one thing. Real crashes are another but I agree the improvements are huge hence I am changing car and a ford or Peugeot are looking favourite

You have an Audi Q7 and you want to buy a Peugeot...:eek::eek::eek::eek:

ashleey

Not really but it makes the point. It will be cheaper to pay the road tax than deal with the low ball values the dealers will be throwing at me.

-Chris-

I'd rather go with something like a survey like this than the bar stool reliability experts.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100

Not surprising that 9 of the top 10 are Japanese, but I'm surprised to see a Mazda, 2 BMWs and the Lexus GS300 in the bottom 9.

ashleey

Doesn't that just rank a car by how cheap the repairs are if they are on warranty direct's book? That means cheap little cars over 3 years old will be at the top?

-Chris-

The Reliability Index figure is calculated as a combination of:
-the number of times a car fails,
-the cost of repairing it,
-the average amount of time it spends off the road due to repairs
-the average age and mileage of the vehicles we have on our books.

So it's not simply a case of recording how often a car breaks down - it's much more comprehensive than that and the data is constantly updated.

.

Zubeneschamali

ashleey wrote: »

That means cheap little cars over 3 years old will be at the top?

Partly. The Corolla and Micra are pushed up by their low repair costs, and the Lexus and 520 are pushed down. But you can see that cost in the result.

You can't see how the age of the cars is factored in. I think this must be why the Fusion is #11 and the Fiesta is #27: the Fusion is made entirely from Fiesta parts, there isn't any reliability difference in a same year Fusion/Fiesta. The only possible reasons for the difference in the ratings is that there are lots of ropey old Fiestas in the stats from before the model year that the Fusion was introduced, or the fact that the Fusion is only bought by OAPs.

We know there are old cars in there, as the Escort is still listed (out of production since 2000 (who buys a warranty on an 11 year old car?).

ashleey

The reason they are likely to be over 3 years is that is after the dealer warranty in the UK. Then you buy an external warranty from warranty direct who collect these stats. If your Audi goes wrong it costs them loads and if your micra does it costs less. Hence the micra goes higher up the table. It doesn't mean that a new micra is more reliable than a new Audi.
Having said that, as an owner of a galaxy and a q7 from 2007 they both break as often but the ford costs about 200 euro each time and the Audi a grand.

Nissan doctor

ashleey wrote: »

The reason they are likely to be over 3 years is that is after the dealer warranty in the UK. Then you buy an external warranty from warranty direct who collect these stats. If your Audi goes wrong it costs them loads and if your micra does it costs less. Hence the micra goes higher up the table. It doesn't mean that a new micra is more reliable than a new Audi.
Having said that, as an owner of a galaxy and a q7 from 2007 they both break as often but the ford costs about 200 euro each time and the Audi a grand.

If your galaxy is the older model then its actually a VW anyway!

ashleey

It's not but I am not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!

It's done so well with my 4 kids and regular trips from Kilkenny to Donegal that I am seriously thinking of changing my q7 for a grand c max. The kids will be glad too. 'dad why cant we relax in your car like we can in mum's?'

galwaytt

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I think no manufacturer is as reliable as they were in the 90's. Too complicated and built to a price now-a-days.

But isn't that just the problem: they've gone backward's ?

My '93 German car has 166k miles, and shows no signs of stopping. But it's inherently simple.

The 06 B6 Passat outside the door hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of reaching half that age. It's well screwed together, feels lovely, nice power, it's quiet, it's comfortable, it's light on diesel.

However it's tow hook has been used twice in 18mths, and at a cost of €800 each time. It's also need a DMF as well as clutch. And the airbag light lives 'on'. It has a penchant for engine oil. Yet it has a fsh, and only 110k miles on it.

Methinks if the scrappage scheme lasts another few years, my friend the silver B6, 06 G xxxxx will be one in the pile for the crusher.

And my 93 G car will probably still be running nicely..........:D

My bosses' 09 reg A6 Multitronic, at 44k kms..............is getting a new gearbox........

Quality ? Hmmmmmm.........

Nissan doctor

galwaytt wrote: »

But isn't that just the problem: they've gone backward's ?

My '93 German car has 166k miles, and shows no signs of stopping. But it's inherently simple.

The 06 B6 Passat outside the door hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of reaching half that age. It's well screwed together, feels lovely, nice power, it's quiet, it's comfortable, it's light on diesel.

However it's tow hook has been used twice in 18mths, and at a cost of €800 each time. It's also need a DMF as well as clutch. And the airbag light lives 'on'. It has a penchant for engine oil. Yet it has a fsh, and only 110k miles on it.

Methinks if the scrappage scheme lasts another few years, my friend the silver B6, 06 G xxxxx will be one in the pile for the crusher.

And my 93 G car will probably still be running nicely..........:D

My bosses' 09 reg A6 Multitronic, at 44k kms..............is getting a new gearbox........

Quality ? Hmmmmmm.........

This is my point, yet there are people who seem to be saying that this is all acceptable once they have a door that "sounds like a Golf" when you close it and a squishy dashboard.:rolleyes:

paddyp

-Chris- wrote: »

I'd rather go with something like a survey like this than the bar stool reliability experts.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100

Not surprising that 9 of the top 10 are Japanese, but I'm surprised to see a Mazda, 2 BMWs and the Lexus GS300 in the bottom 9.

Yes rather surprising to see the Mazda 3 at position 90 considering the TUV in germany found it to be the most reliable car in germany in their 2008 survey.

There are lots of anomalies in the reliability index listings its a good example of what they taught us in engineering .. lies, damn lies, and statistics. You could get 100 different people to arrange that data and get whatever result they liked.

TUV is much more realistic: http://www.anusedcar.com/

On the point of vw:
The great thing is that parts are cheap and widely available, you can go in and buy anything down to a screw or a o-ring no problem, millions of vw specialists on ebay and online. Parts, manuals, software, diagnostics kit and forums galore to help you out with your repairs. DIYers love em.

The bad thing is that certainly for some models parts are cheap and widely available because you'll be buying lots of them .. supply and demand. for example the passat .. look at the tuv stats.

For common problem parts l find that they happily increment the letter on the end of the part number so you think you're getting a newer 'upgraded part' but they rarely release an updated part that actually eliminates the problem just keep selling you the same crappy one.

Nonoperational

Hmm, maybe... I replaced to blow off valve on my golf and it's a completely redesigned part. Nicely done too with a bulletproof piston design instead of a diaphragm.

But I suppose people will ask why it wasn't like that day 1!

foray

Since 1999, I have had two VW Polo's, two VW Bora's and now I drive a 06 Jetta. Until the Jetta I never had any trouble at all. I do a lot of mileage and they have all been petrol bar one of the bora's.
I love VW but the gearbox went in the Jetta last year with 150,000km on it. Always fully serviced. Since then a new gear box fitted but car has never felt right since. VW back up was terrible. It was out of warranty but still. From reading here too, maybe a change in make of car but what to buy!!

-Chris-

foray wrote: »

Since 1999, I have had two VW Polo's, two VW Bora's and now I drive a 06 Jetta. Until the Jetta I never had any trouble at all. I do a lot of mileage and they have all been petrol bar one of the bora's.
I love VW but the gearbox went in the Jetta last year with 150,000km on it. Always fully serviced. Since then a new gear box fitted but car has never felt right since. VW back up was terrible. It was out of warranty but still. From reading here too, maybe a change in make of car but what to buy!!

But still? But still what?

There's no harm in fair criticism, but to expect warranty coverage on a car that was 2-3 years out of warranty is unreasonable imho.

foray

-Chris- wrote: »

But still? But still what?

There's no harm in fair criticism, but to expect warranty coverage on a car that was 2-3 years out of warranty is unreasonable imho.

I was not expecting the warranty to be extended or anything and did not say that but a gearbox going is hardly good for VW or any cars reputation after short enough mileage and regulary services. Same thing happened a friend of mine last year and VW offered them a reduced price on the new gear box so I guess thats progress. Wish I was offered it or something to help.