VW reliability and reputation

quad_red

If the warnings on here are anything to go by, VW have serious reliability issues. Multiple endemic and hugely expensive design flaws seem to plague both the Golf and the Passat.

And anecdotally, from 'direct' second hand experience (ie. from people I actually know in the 'real' world), they seem to be the most fault prone car on the road.

My father and uncle both finished their love affairs with golfs are 15/20 years of buying them after they both had fault plagued models (a 1999 petrol model finished my dad off and a 2005 diesel finished my uncle off on golfs and VW). A guy in work has a similar story and my first cousin has had a mass of tragically hilarious problems with her golf.

I haven't seen any other car brand with such issues (bar a friend with a Renault Clio which has been created by Satan to destroy his sanity - but that's a complete banger).

If these problems are so pervasive, why have they not hit VWs reputation? Why do VWs still retain their value so well?

VW 1

I'm not so sure that that is the opinion of everybody on VW's. Personally I am on my third golf, first being a 97 1.4 baseline petrol that I had for a year with zero problems. Second was a 00 comfortline 1.6 petrol that I had for a little over a year and the only problem I had with it was a small one with the clutch that cost 250 to repair from my local indie. Finally I am on my 3rd for the last year and 3 months which is an 08 1.4 tsi and I have had zero complaints with this one.

As long as you do your homework and make sure you are buying a clean car, whatever the make and model you should come out ok.

Stevie Dakota

Interestingly Renault came clean a few years back and very publicly announced a new effort to improve quality and reliability. This seems to be working judging by their position in reliability surveys.

I feel that VW have exactly the same issues, but due to their reputation and marketing they can never admit their products are anything other than faultless. So you have a big divergence between owner experience and the what the brand is telling is. If VW were a bit more honest, and actually worked to improve things then I would respect the brand more. But they are not so I don't.

murphyebass

I have to say I agree with the op.

My own experience with a '99 passat I had a few years ago was fairly terrible.

Leaking water to the footwells where underneath lies the ECU of things!

Window regulator problems to beat the band.

At least the engine was reliable though. 1.9TDI. Was fast as well with 2 red letters as far as I remember.

The engine would have done 300,000 but the car was falling apart!

edit... ironically enough I bought an Alfa GT since and have had no problems. lol

the varg

I have a 02 gti at the moment & have had it for the past 3 years with a bit of a love hate relationship with it. It has given problems in the past, some the cars fault some mine.

I only had it about 3 months and had to serve to avoid a massive pothole only to hit a lump of concrete on the road and it ripped the sump out.:mad: That cost a bit to put right.

Last year doing a run dublin to sligo, just left sligo town put the clutch down and snap! Was lucky it wasn't the actual clutch that went as that would of been well expensive but it was the pedal linkage or something like that (not very mechanically minded sorry) and that cost about a ton to sort out. I was blessed a mate had a trailer to put the car on as a tow truck was setting me back about 350-400 euro to get it back to dublin as the VW garage in sligo could not repair it for at least 3 days.

During the cold snap the windows froze and I went to let down the passenger window but it was jammed.Didn't think much of it until the next day when I let it down and it wouldn't go back up. Bought it down to my garage and he told me I probably bust the hinges the window sits on but wouldn't know for sure 'til he opened it up. He said if it is the case, it pretty pricey to fix so the passenger window doesn't work for now.

The engine warning light was on at the same time so he hooked it up to the PC got the error code and told me he would have to look it up to see the problem. Anyway don't know what he done but he managed to knock off the warning light without doing anything. Happy days. Only it came back on there few days ago so suppose better get it back to him.

The air con went bang a year into having it, and the part that needs replacing was priced by mechanic at around 400-500 euro! Whatever part it is I dont need it so no air con:(

So thats about all my problems with a gti, in comparsion to my last car, a boring corolla it is troublesome but the corolla was absolute bulletproof you just couldnt kill it (& I tried). But its all relative and for the length of time I've had it I think it's been all good, mostly!

Would I buy another gti? Yep, there are lovely to drive, nice bit of poke out of them when you need it, nice and comfy inside so thumbs up overall. Just be prepared to take the bitter with the sweet...

bladespin

Two VWs (Passat and Caddy van) and an Audi A3 in our household over the past 5 years, both VWs had gearbox failure and the A3 had MAF issues the dealer simply couldn't fix :eek:

CarMuppet

Firstly no manufacturer is free from sin at the moment imo...


I've worked on a 2006 VW Golf GT TDI (hope I got the letters all correct) for a family friend 4 times in an 18 month period due to diag faults. Misc problems but in that 18 month window he had the turbo replaced twice.

Now the same lad did drive the nuts off the car but 2 turbos in 18 months? Hmmmm?? It looked like an oil starvation problem. We never got to the bottom of it, as he sold the car on.

Flesh Gorden

Not sure if it's a common fault or just a unique safety feature

3 of my friends who've had mk IV golfs ( a 99' 1.4, 03' TDi car/van, 02' 1.8t)
all had the central locking activate itself and their keys locked into the cars

I witnessed one case, he had the engine running waiting for the windscreen to de-freeze and got out to talk to the rest of us

With the other two cases I don't know if the engine was running but they'd the re-entry scars to prove it had happened


Considering buying a Jetta next year off the likes of Autoquake once they have 08/58 reg cars at good prices so I'll be paying a lot of attention to this thread

Tea drinker

The feel of quality is a bit better than in the equivalent Peugeot, for example. Maybe a bit more rugged interior.
Mechanically the same, but users have higher expectation and are unpleasantly surprised.

I was pissed off at VW Ireland for not covering the metal fuel hose which broke and peed juice all over the turbo and manifold. It was completely covered in US. And the guaruntees are much better there too.
If they had a decent Guaruntee then it would be ok money for their cars, as it is the asians have it all over them it seems.

Bottom line, ok but too expensive for what you get.

slimjimmc

the varg wrote: »

I have a 02 gti at the moment & have had it for the past 3 years with a bit of a love hate relationship with it. It has given problems in the past, some the cars fault some mine.

I only had it about 3 months and had to serve to avoid a massive pothole only to hit a lump of concrete on the road and it ripped the sump out.:mad: That cost a bit to put right.

Last year doing a run dublin to sligo, just left sligo town put the clutch down and snap! Was lucky it wasn't the actual clutch that went as that would of been well expensive but it was the pedal linkage or something like that (not very mechanically minded sorry) and that cost about a ton to sort out. I was blessed a mate had a trailer to put the car on as a tow truck was setting me back about 350-400 euro to get it back to dublin as the VW garage in sligo could not repair it for at least 3 days.

During the cold snap the windows froze and I went to let down the passenger window but it was jammed.Didn't think much of it until the next day when I let it down and it wouldn't go back up. Bought it down to my garage and he told me I probably bust the hinges the window sits on but wouldn't know for sure 'til he opened it up. He said if it is the case, it pretty pricey to fix so the passenger window doesn't work for now.

The engine warning light was on at the same time so he hooked it up to the PC got the error code and told me he would have to look it up to see the problem. Anyway don't know what he done but he managed to knock off the warning light without doing anything. Happy days. Only it came back on there few days ago so suppose better get it back to him.

The air con went bang a year into having it, and the part that needs replacing was priced by mechanic at around 400-500 euro! Whatever part it is I dont need it so no air con:(

So thats about all my problems with a gti, in comparsion to my last car, a boring corolla it is troublesome but the corolla was absolute bulletproof you just couldnt kill it (& I tried). But its all relative and for the length of time I've had it I think it's been all good, mostly!

Would I buy another gti? Yep, there are lovely to drive, nice bit of poke out of them when you need it, nice and comfy inside so thumbs up overall. Just be prepared to take the bitter with the sweet...

I'm no VW fan but in fairness the sump v's concrete lump and the frozen window problems are user errors and can't be attributed to VW. It's a common no-no to try to use electric windows on any car when they're frozen otherwise you risk snapping something.

JerCotter7

slimjimmc wrote: »

I'm no VW fan but in fairness the sump v's concrete lump and the frozen window problems are user errors and can't be attributed to VW. It's a common no-no to try to use electric windows on any car when they're frozen otherwise you risk snapping something.

He did say some were his fault. And what the hell is with all golfs having a broken brake light this winter? Every single one I have seen this week has had one of the brake lights broken. Usually the left. Never the 3rd.

racer1

Just bought an Audi for first time. But i used buy my cars off same dealer for years and he told me he never took a passat in as a trade in without it coming back to him under the warranty he gave with it. I asked him why he kept taking them in and he said there good sellers.

sean1141

i have had 3 mk4 based car and the only problems i have had were an ignition switch on one and an alternator on another. i have done about 150 thousand miles in them

Absurdum

CarMuppet wrote: »

Firstly no manufacturer is free from sin at the moment imo...

this^

plus German manufacturers have always played on their "German-ness" - it creates a perception of supreme build quality and reliability, similar to Swiss watches, Russian brides, etc. Naturally the customers follows this, and we have the German fanboys as a result

Nonoperational

JerCotter7 wrote: »

He did say some were his fault. And what the hell is with all golfs having a broken brake light this winter? Every single one I have seen this week has had one of the brake lights broken. Usually the left. Never the 3rd.

I haven't seen a single golf with a broken brake light. You must be unlucky.

bladespin

gpf101 wrote: »

I haven't seen a single golf with a broken brake light. You must be unlucky.

:rolleyes: Common sight around these parts, but not limited to VW by any means.

Nonoperational

Yep absolutely nothing to do with the make of car. But sur small details like that don't matter!

SpannerMonkey

VW seems to be one of those brands that

1. anyone that has owned one has had numerous problems with
2. anyone that hasnt says they are fantastic and never break

i have 3 people in my family with Vw's 2 passats and a golf and they all have had numeous problems and 2 of them say thy wont buy another Vw ever again. the other lad loves his golf even though its breaking him

tommy57

vw passats are one of the worse cars on the road. i've a 03 1.9 tdi. for a start the clutch went. then the altinator and then to cap it off when it rains heavy it leaks on the drivers side just above lever for the bonnet. oh and the airbag light has to be reset because it won't turn off. other than that at least it goes for now ! p.s the boot would'nt lock the other day other than that great cars.

mickob16

Ive had a 00 Golf TDI for 5 yrs and can only say 'What a Car'!!!In those 5 yrs ive serviced her twice,replaced the brake pads once and recently changed the battery.Nothing else has had to be done(touch wood)Ive pulled a trailer with about two tonnes no problem.Ive had an Audi and now have a BMW and both have given me far more trouble than the Beast.The thing is made from granite!!!!!

Nissan doctor

The Germans are marketing their cars based on 'perceived quality', their cars in general have a more solid feel then other brands, but the term perceived quality couldn't be any more true.

My own point of view, from spending day in and day out repairing cars, is that its the arrogance of the German brands that gets to me. The likes of Renault/Nissan/Citroen sell their cars on value for money and good trade in/scrappage deals but the Germans sell their cars, in almost every brands adds, even Opel now, as being German and therefor as some sort of superior product, which they simply and almost without argument, aren't!

Every brand has issues these days as costs have to be reduced constantly and there for parts have to be sourced cheaper and cheaper, but from what I see in work every day, it is simply unacceptable things which fail on the Germans, my latest example, A BMW 645i in for a service last week, it was an 06 with less then 80,000kms and aside from its CBS items, it had a front balljoint that was in a dangerous state and a leaking rad......what possible excuse is there for the rad to be leaking on an €70k plus premium coupe with low mileage? And its always things like, to site some recent examples, wiper motors, gearboxes, drive shafts, electrical issues, broken door handles, the list is endless and yet my mind boggles that people still want these cars. I have a 96 micra as a daily driver and every single component on it still works after 15 years and 110k miles

To my mind, reliability wise, a vw/Audi, a BMW or a Mercedes are in the same class as Renaults of the last few years.

coolbeans

Nissan doctor wrote: »

To my mind, reliability wise, a vw/Audi, a BMW or a Mercedes are in the same class as Renaults of the last few years.

In fairness to Renault their recent models have proven far more robust than those of the noughties but I agree with every other point you listed.
The reason people want the Germans is largely to do with image. Image is all. Image makes you feel good about yourself, helps you to pull the ladies, results in parental approval and makes others think you've made it. People are egotistical creatures. That's why they'll always want delicate and expensive Beemers and Benzes.

junkyarddog

All German cars are overrated IMO,
Had a golf GTI,loved it.Done around 70k in it over 5 years,
but it needed constant maintenence/repair,
Head gasket blew after around a month of ownership,
all the wheel bearings had to be replaced,
it needed two steering racks,
two gearboxes,and a clutch,
rear calipers seized,
3 alternators,
window regulators broke and had to be replaced several times,
4 new shocks and springs,
there probably is other stuff I've forgotten.
Having said all that it never failed to complete a journey,
and being in the trade and handy(ish) with a spanner,
ment I could do the repair work myself.
But I will never buy another VW again.
I replaced the golf with a Honda Prelude,
had that for 6 years and apart from a failed coil in the distributor and a couple of worn balljoints,all it needed was regular servicing in that time.
I now drive a Toyota Celica,2 1/2 years and 25k later it's been faultless,
Touchwood:D

unkel

The Golf Mk IV is crap and now all German cars are guilty by association?

I should think not. The only guilty ones are the people (it seems in this country only) who thought that Golf was great to start with. It's not. It's crap. And that includes the GTI.

Fishtits

Most mechanics I talk to reckon they'd be out of business if it wasn't for VW... local motor factor said the same some years ago...

We've had a (used) Golf IV TDI 90 for five odd years, its getting elderly and leggy at this stage but I have to say, although its rough, uncivilized and totally utilitarian it has been bulletproof. It gets serviced (properly) on time with quality parts but over 80 odd thousand miles its cost less than €250 in unscheduled maintenance...

Now, in fairness, I should confess that I never seem to get grief with any car I drive. Maybe I'm just poxed but I put 200K on an E36 with nil breakdowns (still going strong with its now owner) I also had several Citroens with no issues.

I have a cousin who has been through the rainbow with cars, new & used, from BMW to Audi to Renault etc etc and has had nothing but trouble from all of them... makes you think?

UNKEL: The Golf IV is not a crap car, it was just overpriced and over hyped, marketing rules OK

unkel

Fishtits wrote: »

UNKEL: The Golf IV is not a crap car, it was just overpriced and over hyped, marketing rules OK

Perhaps I was a bit harsh. The best ever boards.ie car is the Golf MK IV Octavia after all

Did you ever see the size of the boot?

Anyway, the GTI is junk. Lardy car without any poke.

BrianD3

Hard to know what to make of VW reliability. It may be that the general public overestimate VW reliability. While internet posters overestimate VW unreliability.

I don't recall seeing VW do badly in any reliability survey. They often do well, for instance in the reliability section of the 2010 Auto Express Driver Power, the Golf Mk6 did very well.

Anecdotally, I know one person with a 07 Passat from new which has been a nightmare, not just niggly problems but several breakdowns. It seems to have been OK for the last 6 months though :rolleyes:. i know another with a 06 Passat that has been perfectly reliable. Know a few people with Golf Mk5s that have been good, one needed a turbo and starter motor after 100k though. Know someone else with 300k miles on his 1998 Passat, never seems to have any problems.

I would still not buy a new Passat or Golf because of the crap 2 year warranty, the bad attitude of VW dealers that I've experienced and because I find the cars bland with rock hard seats.

Nissan doctor

Why do people think they only give a 2 year warranty when the trend is to give more...

IMO VW/BMW/Audi/Mercedes engineer their cars to last the warranty period. After that they know that because of the marketing and the amount of gullible people who buy their cars based on nothing but the marketing ploys and the ridiculous notion that only the main dealers can do the job right, they will make a killing on parts supply!

-Corkie-

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Why do people think they only give a 2 year warranty when the trend is to give more...

IMO VW/BMW/Audi/Mercedes engineer their cars to last the warranty period. After that they know that because of the marketing and the amount of gullible people who buy their cars based on nothing but the marketing ploys and the ridiculous notion that only the main dealers can do the job right, they will make a killing on parts supply!

Why then do you get a 3 year warranty on a VW in UK. Are they made better for the brits????.

Do they bolt on the DMF tighter....:pac:

BostonB

We had a lot of VWs over the years and everyone of them needed something beyond normal servicing. A common failure on VW (in our experience) seems to be ABS which is like 1k to fix. Quite often that thinks that are fixed as recall or part of servicing for free in the UK are often charged to the customer here in Ireland. Rip of Ireland etc.

Nissan doctor

-Corkie- wrote: »

Why then do you get a 3 year warranty on a VW in UK. Are they made better for the brits????.

Do they bolt on the DMF tighter....:pac:

The UK market is much much larger then the Irish one so they have much more to loose...

endamurtagh

VW = Aerodynamic tractors

Tea 1000

gpf101 wrote: »

I haven't seen a single golf with a broken brake light. You must be unlucky.

I don't remember the last time I've seen a Golf in the last 10 years with all its lights working properly. You must be very lucky!

I think the Boards opinion of VW is worse than the reality. There is a major problem with the Irish and brand loyalty to anything VAG, not admitting to any of the problems their VW had.
I think in the engine department, apart from a few dogs, and a few that should have been killed off long before they were, VW aren't bad. Better quality control in their assembly might bring them back. They're still excellent at quality feel and noise insulation in the cabin, and a feeling of quality in the interior assembly. That's part of the battle really, everyone here criticises the Avensis for being the exact opposite, a quality dash that feels and looks cheap.

Nissan doctor

Tea 1000 wrote: »

They're still excellent at quality feel and noise insulation in the cabin, and a feeling of quality in the interior assembly. That's part of the battle really, everyone here criticises the Avensis for being the exact opposite, a quality dash that feels and looks cheap.

This is the chief problem with the German brands and VW in general. Surely people would rather have a car with a bit of a plasticy dash that rarely has to go near a garage outside it servicing requirements?

IMO, there are two types of people who buy German cars:
1, those who are not informed and are still under the pre 90's impression that German cars are bullet proof.
2, Those who want the world to think they have bought a premium product, and actually put up with and argue against any quality issues so they can keep this impression up.

Its not even like the German brands have excellent customer service to counter the quality of the their cars..the arrogence of the dealers is as bad as the manufacturers.

Its the same mentality as those who have a Prius and vainly attempt to argue that it is actually doing something for the environment when, in reality, it says 100% more then it does!

Zubeneschamali

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Surely people would rather have a car with a bit of a plasticy dash that rarely has to go near a garage outside it servicing requirements?

Not me.

Nissan doctor

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Not me.

That's what makes the world such a diverse place....and keeps garages and recovery companies in business:D

BostonB

Nissan doctor wrote: »

This is the chief problem with the German brands and VW in general. Surely people would rather have a car with a bit of a plasticy dash that rarely has to go near a garage outside it servicing requirements?...

Within reason no as well. That said there was that Corona with the brown dash that we won't mention. I've certainly lived with the reliable plastoc iky dash options at time.

Tea drinker

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Why do people think they only give a 2 year warranty when the trend is to give more...

IMO VW/BMW/Audi/Mercedes engineer their cars to last the warranty period. After that they know that because of the marketing and the amount of gullible people who buy their cars based on nothing but the marketing ploys and the ridiculous notion that only the main dealers can do the job right, they will make a killing on parts supply!

It's at least 6 years powertrain in the states, plus in other ways they cover a LOT more stuff, loads of recall stuff in the states that they don't bother with here.

Nissan doctor

Tea drinker wrote: »

It's at least 6 years powertrain in the states, plus in other ways they cover a LOT more stuff, loads of recall stuff in the states that they don't bother with here.

What they do in the states has no relevance here. firstly people in the states will simply let their solicitor deal with any issues they have with a car. The powertrain warranty is very limited when you read the small print, it covers the main mechanical parts, pistons, crank, gears, drive shafts etc etc not electrical parts and cars in general in the US put up high mileage but its almost all highway miles which means very little drivetrain wear. Also, the vast majority of issues are with the small capacity petrol and diesels which make up the vast % of engines sold here. In the US market, they use mostly the large capacity petrol engines in all models which are generally much more reliable anyway.

And the main reason the Americans see the Germans as so reliable is that compared to American domestic cars of the last 30 years anything would be more reliable.

Tea drinker

It has as much relevance as what they do anywhere else. So basically you are saying that as long as we take it VW should dish it out?

The US agencies also can put pressure to issue recalls. Something that would never happen here.

And the 1.8t engine was very popular in US, obviously the likes of 3.2 and W8 are viable too, but the same faults that affect the same cars here are ignored by VW.

Tea 1000

Nissan doctor wrote: »

This is the chief problem with the German brands and VW in general. Surely people would rather have a car with a bit of a plasticy dash that rarely has to go near a garage outside it servicing requirements?

IMO, there are two types of people who buy German cars:
1, those who are not informed and are still under the pre 90's impression that German cars are bullet proof.
2, Those who want the world to think they have bought a premium product, and actually put up with and argue against any quality issues so they can keep this impression up.

Its not even like the German brands have excellent customer service to counter the quality of the their cars..the arrogence of the dealers is as bad as the manufacturers.

Its the same mentality as those who have a Prius and vainly attempt to argue that it is actually doing something for the environment when, in reality, it says 100% more then it does!

Why can't we have both a nice interior and a reliable car?
To be fair, VW have had many reliability issues, but not too many that would leave you stuck. I also think that the Germans do have diesel technology sorted a bit better than the Japs do.
OK, VW were late to the CR game, and their initial teething problems do seem to be resolved now. BMW's swirl flaps issues also seem to be in the past, and 184bhp with over 50mpg is very impressive.
I think no manufacturer is as reliable as they were in the 90's. Too complicated and built to a price now-a-days.

ashleey

Google vag abs failure 2005-2007. Then ask me how much it cost me to repair my Audi q7. 'luckily' Audi UK, where I bought it, shared the cost. No chance will I ever shell out big money on a german car again. On the flip side if a French car crashes into you guess which one you would be most likely to walk away from?

Tea 1000

ashleey wrote: »

Google vag abs failure 2005-2007. Then ask me how much it cost me to repair my Audi q7. 'luckily' Audi UK, where I bought it, shared the cost. No chance will I ever shell out big money on a german car again. On the flip side if a French car crashes into you guess which one you would be most likely to walk away from?

French cars do very well, and are often class leading in crash tests. Renault have put massive effort and frequently have topped their class in NCAP tests.

Nissan doctor

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Why can't we have both a nice interior and a reliable car?

That is a very good question...


As as for VW in the US. There have been several articles over the last couple of years from the US describing VW north America as a "company in crisis" and competing increasingly poorly against the much improved quality of Toyota and Hyundai.

ashleey

Ncap tests are one thing. Real crashes are another but I agree the improvements are huge hence I am changing car and a ford or Peugeot are looking favourite

-Corkie-

ashleey wrote: »

Ncap tests are one thing. Real crashes are another but I agree the improvements are huge hence I am changing car and a ford or Peugeot are looking favourite

You have an Audi Q7 and you want to buy a Peugeot...:eek::eek::eek::eek:

ashleey

Not really but it makes the point. It will be cheaper to pay the road tax than deal with the low ball values the dealers will be throwing at me.

-Chris-

I'd rather go with something like a survey like this than the bar stool reliability experts.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100

Not surprising that 9 of the top 10 are Japanese, but I'm surprised to see a Mazda, 2 BMWs and the Lexus GS300 in the bottom 9.

ashleey

Doesn't that just rank a car by how cheap the repairs are if they are on warranty direct's book? That means cheap little cars over 3 years old will be at the top?

-Chris-

The Reliability Index figure is calculated as a combination of:
-the number of times a car fails,
-the cost of repairing it,
-the average amount of time it spends off the road due to repairs
-the average age and mileage of the vehicles we have on our books.

So it's not simply a case of recording how often a car breaks down - it's much more comprehensive than that and the data is constantly updated.

.

Zubeneschamali

ashleey wrote: »

That means cheap little cars over 3 years old will be at the top?

Partly. The Corolla and Micra are pushed up by their low repair costs, and the Lexus and 520 are pushed down. But you can see that cost in the result.

You can't see how the age of the cars is factored in. I think this must be why the Fusion is #11 and the Fiesta is #27: the Fusion is made entirely from Fiesta parts, there isn't any reliability difference in a same year Fusion/Fiesta. The only possible reasons for the difference in the ratings is that there are lots of ropey old Fiestas in the stats from before the model year that the Fusion was introduced, or the fact that the Fusion is only bought by OAPs.

We know there are old cars in there, as the Escort is still listed (out of production since 2000 (who buys a warranty on an 11 year old car?).