Nest Boxes .....

Feargal as Luimneach

Hi Ditch,
Need some advice. The girlfriend got me a blue tit nest box. I was wondering could I put it on the side of the garden shed (it would be 2 metres off the ground). Not much cover only young willow trees (3 years old). The shed is beside the house and I pass it on the way into the house. Is it too exposed?
Here's a link to a picture of the shed: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056168885

Ditch

Feargal; That sounds like a fine location I trust it's not a south or west facing wall? South's definitely out, because the brood could bake, in a condition known as " Summer ". So, even though I recognise that we don't tend to get a lot of that, it's still a risk better not to take

Other than that? Yeah, sure. Go for it. Birds won't mind ye passing by now and then. Can't see ye from in there and the chances of ye bumping into eachother in your passing and their going about their outside business are slim anyway.

Ditch

Ditch wrote: »

Ye can put a box in vegetation growing up a wall. As long as the Entrance Hole is visible. With me?

Rainbowsend, you're a star! That picture completely encapsulates what I was trying to convey there!

Thanks!

Feargal as Luimneach

Ditch wrote: »

Feargal; That sounds like a fine location I trust it's not a south or west facing wall? South's definitely out, because the brood could bake, in a condition known as " Summer ". So, even though I recognise that we don't tend to get a lot of that, it's still a risk better not to take

Other than that? Yeah, sure. Go for it. Birds won't mind ye passing by now and then. Can't see ye from in there and the chances of ye bumping into eachother in your passing and their going about their outside business are slim anyway.

North facing. Excellent stuff I'll put it up tomorrow. Thanks:)

artieanna

Right Ditch mate have four luxury boxes up from your earlier design with 6inch floor space. Now after reading the last couple of posts I realise I never left a hinged opening to clean them out next year:mad::mad::mad::mad
Anyway will tend to that next year and fix hinged opening on them.

Heres pics of them in position. I have placed them about 10-12ft off the ground in south east positions is this okay???.. I have read that much stuff here I hope its right...I don't want them to fry in summer..

sables2

Ok Ditch: I've absorbed most of it. I think i'll leave the boxes alone and hope for the best. maybe i'll just lightly prune some of the branches back to have the BT hole in plain view, to me and BT's.
If i keep my 'eye on the ball' i'm sure i may see a BT - maybe they have discovered it without me knowing .
Thanks for your patients and time

sables2

Hi Rainbowsend,
Ha,ha...think i'm 'gonna have a bloody heart-attack indeed. All this 'technical nest box' stuff is getting to me. More than likely i'm in-experienced...(a good excuse..:o)
On a more serious note: your photo of the BT box is really stunning. I see your point though: You sit it out and wait for 'em to arrive. You've put up your box, left an opening in the foliage for them to see the hole, and 'bob's your Uncle'.
Where's I'm all questions and fuss. I'm 'gonna wait and see now for myself...fingers crossed:rolleyes:

Rainbowsend

Thats it now relax and just wait for them!

sables2

Thanks...;)

Ditch

artieanna wrote: »

Right Ditch mate have four luxury boxes up from your earlier design with 6inch floor space. Now after reading the last couple of posts I realise I never left a hinged opening to clean them out next year:mad::mad::mad:

Anyway will tend to that next year and fix hinged opening on them.

Artieanna; That's some great work They look just like what I turn out myself. (Which makes me wonder how ye appear to have managed to follow the design so well, and yet 'forget' the front should open. But, what ever)

Just to cautiously enquire about the nice brownness of that timber; Not a creosote substitute, is it ....?

trebor28

Ditch wrote: »

Feargal; That sounds like a fine location because the brood could bake, in a condition known as " Summer ". So, even though I recognise that we don't tend to get a lot of that, it's still a risk better not to take

condition known as summer, classic!:D

artieanna

Ditch wrote: »

Artieanna; That's some great work They look just like what I turn out myself. (Which makes me wonder how ye appear to have managed to follow the design so well, and yet 'forget' the front should open. But, what ever)

Just to cautiously enquire about the nice brownness of that timber; Not a creosote substitute, is it ....?

The bro is a chippy very handy wit de wood not a clue though about birds (hence no opening), ya he painted some stuff on not cresote but some water based preservative. I could have died when I saw it:eek: but had a look at the tin and there no warning about wildlife, its only on the outside and was applied last wednesday? Will get the name of it and post it, I hope it no harm if it is I'll sand it off completly...

I keeping an eye have no residents movin in yet so, we see how it goes..so the direction they pointed in is okay?

Thanks ditch for all the info, top class, so glad you joined us here...

Ditch

I'm perfectly assured that ye bro' would've known exactly what he was about with the preservative. Water based is fine. I have a bottle of it in the shed too.

This thing about creosote substitute; I asked on the Nest Recorders Forum about this. The consensus was that it's better not to use it, especially as water based gear is available. However, no one seemed willing or able to pin down why Not.

Well; My loo is outdoors. And I happened to treat the door with CS. Inside and out. Now, you think about it; Outside loo / nest box? There's quite a good comparison there. Actually very similar in scales, if not sizes, of course.

Know what? For more than a Month or two after I'd treated that door, it was uncomfortable being in there with the door shut. Regardless of what ever wind was blowing around.

And that's just one door. Imagine that on all six sides of a small place where ye spending the vast majority of ye time? It'd be hell!

Now, I don't believe birds have a sense of smell ~ open to correction ~ but, either way, that level of fumes couldn't be good.

So, science and carcinogenic response Vs. short life span of a bird, blah, blah, blah ..... I'd say No Way would I ever make a bird 'suffer' a CS'd box.

Water Based Preservative or else Sadolin


Thanks for the kind comments, by the way. But, it's the people like you, getting the boxes out there, you're the stars

whyulittle

Yes indeed, thanks Ditch.

(Green) BT, Robin and Wren box ready to go up. Another BT box to go on the back wall of the house I think. Have moved the feeders to free up that corner of the garden.

Wren box to go in the thick of things like the Robin box?

Ditch

whyulittle wrote: »

Wren box to go in the thick of things like the Robin box?

Yeppers. Wrens seriously like to hide ..... or else make themselves as exposed as a swallow

Rule of thumb? Outside, try to place the box hidden away in a prominent place. (Think, 'Land Mark' again. Find some feature that sticks out a bit. Gate post. Old tree stump. Telegraph pole. Anything like that, with a good covering of ivy, or else a hedge running past it, would be great.

Inside? (And wrens nest inside outbuildings just as readily as anywhere else) Just bang the damn things up. Screw one to a wall plate. Joist. Rafter. Frame of a door no longer used. Anything / anywhere like that.

And, finally; Ye can't have too many wren boxes. Because, as said earlier, they roost in them in winter. Also, the male bird may take over several boxes. Then he'll give a female the guided tour and she'll choose just the one.

So, yeah, strew the damn place with them. Go OTT. They're so small, no one'll notice

Incidentally: Spotted a length of thin plank today. Nice, planed bit of wood. Just under 5", I'd say. Yard long. Couldn't help myself! It's now a wren box!

Feargal as Luimneach

Another question for Ditch...
The girlfriend bought nest box off Birdwatch Ireland. House sparrow terrace box with 3 nest spaces.
I have house sparrows which nest under the tiles of the roof. The nest is beside the back door. Should I put up the box up directly beside where there nesting already or further down the bungalow where it's less noisy????

Ditch

Feargal; Give that girlfriend of yours a hug from me. She's a good'n!

House Sparrows? I've done my time on House Sparrows. I'll tell ye a story or two, later. Only, right now I'm a bit busy .....

Ye 'Terrace'? The 'modern' approach says to crowd them in. Box itself is designed to do exactly that, look. So, not wishing to argue with 'science' too much, just yet? I'll pass on to you the 'received wisdom' of the day and suggest ye put the Terrace up within a yard or so of the existing nests.

I really must do a post on House Sparrows. I have some points to make about them and questions to throw out too.

Fact is; They fascinate me. Have for decades. And I'm looking forward to 'experimenting' around them myself, presently

Feargal as Luimneach

Ditch wrote: »

Feargal; Give that girlfriend of yours a hug from me. She's a good'n!

House Sparrows? I've done my time on House Sparrows. I'll tell ye a story or two, later. Only, right now I'm a bit busy .....

Ye 'Terrace'? The 'modern' approach says to crowd them in. Box itself is designed to do exactly that, look. So, not wishing to argue with 'science' too much, just yet? I'll pass on to you the 'received wisdom' of the day and suggest ye put the Terrace up within a yard or so of the existing nests.

I really must do a post on House Sparrows. I have some points to make about them and questions to throw out too.

Fact is; They fascinate me. Have for decades. And I'm looking forward to 'experimenting' around them myself, presently

Thanks Ditch:)
She's a fine cailín. There's not too many who would put up with me, between birdwatching trips, boxing trips and Republic of Ireland soccer trips. She does have a limit though with the bird boxes.

Two years ago we were in the garden with the back door open. A swallow flew into the kitchen searching for a suitable place to nest no doubt. She turned to me and said " Jesus no, you're not going to let them build a nest in the kitchen?" I obviously replied "Of course I am, maybe we could could put up a swallow nest box for them in the kitchen" She wasn't too happy. Luckily for me they didn't start building in the kitchen

trebor28

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Thanks Ditch:)
She's a fine cailín. There's not too many who would put up with me, between birdwatching trips, boxing trips and Republic of Ireland soccer trips. She does have a limit though with the bird boxes.

theres a combination you dont see every day!

E39MSport

From last year at a friends house. Very difficult to stop them getting in. I considered my friend a very lucky person although I have experience of dealing with swallow droppings and indeed feather mites.


Thats a bedroom btw.

(tangent) I have seen them in our winter time in Africa and it always leaves me bewildered. I'd go very much out of my way to help them. I hope they take to the nests I've put out for them.

Storm 10

Hi all I have blue tits coming into the feeder and last year put a nest box on a tree stump around 15 feet high, they came looked at it on loads of times but never nested, when should I put the nest box up again I was thinking about the side of the house, I even put seed into it which they eat but never stayed, what am I doing wrong. Is it too late to put it up now ??

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Storm 10 wrote: »

Hi all I have blue tits coming into the feeder and last year put a nest box on a tree stump around 15 feet high, they came looked at it on loads of times but never nested, when should I put the nest box up again I was thinking about the side of the house, I even put seed into it which they eat but never stayed, what am I doing wrong. Is it too late to put it up now ??

First of all put is at more like 8ft high. Put it up immediately and leave it up. Even if not used this year it may be used next year, or the year after. A quiet side of the house is perfect once not South facing.

Don't put seed in it.

Ditch

Sport; What 'boxes' have ye put up for swallows, mate? Is this the artificial nest cup things? Or just platforms?

I'd be interested to hear of ye experiences there as I've never employed any means of encouragement, beyond making my out building doors so's to allow a gap at the top. Mine just nest ..... well, practically everywhere!

And yeppers; Feather mites is another reason I strongly encourage people not to allow birds to nest within the actual fabric of their homes. Better to seal the entry hole off, in winter, and fix a good box at the spot.


Storm; Might it be possible that ye sited that box a bit close to the feeders? This is a common mistake. We've all seen the bird tables with a 'nest box' built into the roof.

We wouldn't like to try and live in a super market ailse. Absolutely no need to go to fifteen foot for a BT either, by the way. GT might prefer that. Only, I get a little uneasy, thinking of all these people clambering up and down ladders propped against trees and so forth.

I'd always advise siting in a situation where one only needs chuck down a beer crate or something similar and step up to access the box. Out of reach of casual disturbance. But not a team effort to get to either.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Just for clarity. 15ft is very much at the upper limit for nest sites for Great Tits. The optimum height ranges from 4ft to 12ft but basically they will use boxes at the same height as Blue Tits. Studies show that giving a choice they will choose a box at 9 to 10 feet before any higher ones.

Therefore, as Ditch says, no need to go climbing ladders.

Many nestboxes will be used by both Blue and Great Tits. I have some that alternate between the 2 quite regularly. So do the same for the Greats as for the Blues.

Storm 10

Quote ditch
Storm; Might it be possible that ye sited that box a bit close to the feeders? This is a common mistake. We've all seen the bird tables with a 'nest box' built into the roof.


Thanks for the replies re the Blue Tits Box, yes ditch I did put it up a bit close to the feeder hoping they would look at the available food so close to home but it did not work, when do Blue Tits nest am I too late to put it up now.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Breeding starts in Mid-April usually. Certainly not too late to put the box up now but don't be disappointed if it's not used this year.

Ditch

If there's a box using bird that's liable to get a Nest Recorder killed? I reckon the good old House Sparrow is well in the running to be that kiddie!

Reason for this is simply because the places and manner in which they'll nest. I've seen them eight foot up a Palm Tree (Yep!) inside a vast, tropical greenhouse.

I've seen 'Gang' nesting amongst the ivy on a variety of walls ~ And, starting at eight foot, these birds demonstrate a head for heights! Top of a two story building? No bother.

I've even accessed their nests through roof spaces of houses. Because, " I'm not going That far up any ladders!

So, ye see, a beer crate will seldom get ye up to a sparrow. Here ladders come into play. Because, when they can get it, they like their height. Something to bear in mind then; Get their boxes as high as ye safely can.

Then, the real fun starts. See; While sparrows will perfectly happily nest in a quite isolated position, where they'd might as well be the last sparrows on earth. They actually prefer to 'Gang' Nest.

I grew up knowing a huge building with some form of creeper growing up its exposed, north facing side end. And the sparrows had probably nested there since before I was born. What a metropolis of sparrows nests it was!

Then, in their wisdom, someone stripped that creeper, sparrows nests and all The brickwork stood exposed.

Some years later, it occurred to me (thinking about sparrows again) that the flock must have gone somewhere. Take their nest / roost site away and the birds don't just vanish. They still exist.

Know what I did? I spent several evenings, simply standing in the street, at the old site. Watching for sparrows flying over head. And I saw them too. They were always heading NNW. I started walking, NNW.

I wandered into a council estate, built like a rabbit warren. Roads. Tracks. Alleyways. Open areas. It was a maze. So, I stood again. Just stood there and listened.

And, sure enough, I detected something 'in the air'. I took a few paces toward where I reckoned the sound was coming .....

Within about a week of doing this ~ took some nerve and a degree of street savvie; You try standing around on an inner city council estate, just around tea time! My ears actually led me to turn a final corner ..... And then the sound was Shattering!

Side wall of a block of maisonettes. Not five hundred yards from the old site. Thick with ivy. Crawling with sparrows! North facing.

My local 'Gun Shop' is a big old house. Two storeys. Covered in ivy. House sparrows nesting ~ in the ivy on the North wall. Usual heights. Eight foot and up. Are we catching the emergence of a pattern or two here?

OK. So, House Sparrows would choose, in a perfect world, a north facing wall, covered in vegetation. Eight foot to thirty foot high. And their boxes? Here's another anecdote:

There was once this young woman who decided to get her 'Doctorate', or what ever it was, in sparrows. She was at university in england and was going to do a massive study of House Sparrow nesting habits.

I happened to meet her, at one of the annual Bird Fair's, where she was holding court about her up and coming sparrow project. She had one of her nest boxes on display ..... Yeah. A Nest Box. And I've happened along?

One look at this thing and I've quietly and nicely tried to advise this girl that her four inch square box wasn't going to be worth jack to a sparrow. (See what I just did there? And I haven't even seen the films! :P)

No good. She was at university. I was ~ well ..... Nobody. She poo poohed my suggestion to 'Give them some room.' So, I left her to it.

Dunno if she ever got what ever initials after her name she was after. But, I did read, a year or two later, how the mass saturation of a huge area with her (forgive me but ~ in my opinion ~ 'stupid little') nest boxes proved a complete and total wash out.

I think the up take might have been as stupidly low as 2% or something? Load of cash, work, effort and time down the pan. Hey ho. Probably gave her something to write a 'Paper' about .....

So, we have the height. Direction. 'Perfect' conditions. (Note: Wall vegetation is fantastic. But, it's Not a prerequisite. I've seen them nesting in bare brick too) Now, what about the actual box?

Dead simple. Get a 7" plank of rough sawn and do like I said for Great Tit. Only, this time give it a 32mm hole.

Get ye first row as high as ye can. (Yes; Hang them in rows) Pretty much as many as will fit ye horizontal space available. Separate them only by a boxes width. Then, if possible, drop down a boxes level and do it all over again. Repeat process till ye reach eight feet from the ground.

Now, 'Obviously', that's an extreme model. 'No One' is going to plaster an average 'bungalow' gable end with that many nest boxes. It's silly

But, please do take from that model. So, maybe one at the gable apex. Couple below that. So on, to taste.

Alternatively? This is about the 'best' design plan I could come up with, at a swift search through Google:

" Sparrow Terrace "

Personally? While it's the 'new wave' in boxes, I just wonder why it took the 'experts' so long to figure out. I also just don't like the concept. And I reckon I could build three of my own 'Front Openers' faster ~ and with a better end product ~ than I could a " Terrace ".

I do relish the space provided by this design though. Up to you

whyulittle

My BT box finally up!




Wren and Robin boxes. Too close together?



By the way, when I was looking for things to hang the boxes, I found a 50 metre roll of galvanised gardeners wire in B&Q for 6 quid something. Good value I thought. They had other galvanised 'metal rope' for €1.60 a metre or something like that.

Ditch

WUL; Tit box looks a blinder! Well done (Christ; I want to get in there myself, it looks so inviting!)

Robin box, to the right? Too exposed yet. I have some nice shots, yet to bring here, demonstrating robin stuff. But, ye really need to 'bury' it. Tuck it up, under, behind, amongst. Otherwise ye just making it an offering to the crows.

Wren box? Ye getting the idea there That's more like it. Now; If ye'd taken my earlier suggestion and made those boxes 'Ivy' green, look ....? Look at ye photo's. See what I'm saying?


How to Hang boxes? Don't even get me started on That bloody nightmare! Almost deserves an entirely separate thread of its own!

Truth to tell? Despite all the 'sound bite' answers I see, in books and on line. Just about Any of this 'One Size Fits All' solution stuff is just so much BS, once ye out there in the field and Doing It

Batten down the back? Across the top? Fine. As long as the tree's flat or wide enough. Your 'Fence Wire'? OK. As long as ye can be there, for ever more, to check and replace the wire, as the tree grows. OK for a Nest Recorder, who'll be at the boxes regular as clockwork. Not so clever for the casual person who simply wants to bung up a box.

Brass screws? Aluminium nails? Masonry nails? (Hateful things! But, I can't afford a cordless SDS drill for isolated sheds and bridges) Fine: If ye can get them / get them into the tree so they'll hold ye box ..... Urrrrrgh! It's a bloody headache! Hate to admit it but; Virtually every box I put up presents this same, recurring hassle:

'What is the best way to secure This box, in This position? Big, old tree? Concrete wall? Stone wall? Young, slim tree? Earth bank? Under / against wood? So on and so forth. Questions.

Personally? I favour what many of the NRS Forum bod's seem to be using; Galvanised Strapping. Tenner for a bloody great roll. My creamery sells it as " 25mm Galvoband ". From 'Eurometals'.

Nail lengths of this stuff to the appropriate corners, or what ever, of ye boxes and ye can easily adapt just about any box to any situation. Doesn't solve beating Masonry nails against stones. But, it gives ye more lee way

Very good idea to chuck some brown paint at it, 'In the Wild'. Though, I'm seeing it used to hold Dipper boxes, under bridges, and who cares what colour it is there?

Adaptable though, see?

whyulittle

Yeah I saw that stuff on artieanna's boxes, looked handy alright. Wanted to just get the boxes up though.

And they're mostly green!

I'll see if I can bury the Robin box a bit more. It's just where it is, the lower down I go, it will end up on the wall.