Nest Boxes .....

Ditch

How interested in them are you?

I mean; Are you the sort of person to buy one in the shop in town, where ye buy ye peanuts and feeders?

Do ye know enough to be aware of what sized hole suits which birds. Things like that?

Or, are ye fascinated by the whole subject. Do ye have books dedicated to what they used to call " Bird Gardening " and the provision and siteing of the correct type of box for a given species or group of species?

Frankly; With me, it borders on an obsession! I could talk about bird nest boxes like most blokes could talk about football or motors.

Only trouble is, I don't want to kick off about them here and find myself talking to myself.

Anyone here share my passion? Fancy comparing notes and just having a damn good chat about nest boxes?

trebor28

im thinking of making up a few boxes myself for some birds, dont have any books like you or anything but i think i have all the tools and i have lots of places to put up boxes.

would really like to put up a box for a bigger bird of prey like a kestrel or a barn owl etc.

any tips?

Ditch

* Rubs his hands! * ..... Ooh, Trebor, ye getting me all excited already, look!

Nest boxes? Kestrels? Barn Owls? Tips? Right there, look, ye've walked into my trap.

See? What should I do now? I could, very easily, spell out all ye'd need to know about both types of box and a whole lot more.

But, then what happens when someone else comes along and asks about a box for Blue Tits? Or I want to ask you peeps about the Schwegler wagtail box design?

Entire thread would break down into utter chaos in a day, wouldn't it? Everyone talking at cross purposes. Ye'd have a hell of a job finding " Kestrel Box " or " Spotted Flycatcher Tray " amidst one almighty great stream of chatter.

That's if the subject took off, of course. And that's why I've posted as above. I want to see if enough people would like to discuss this subject.

If it looks like they would? Then I'd be looking at asking the Mod's if we might have a dedicated sub board. Then / there we could have threads such as " Kestrel Boxes ", " Starling Boxes " etc. And it would be simple to follow and find what ever one required.

Alternative would be to kick off separate threads on here for every box or what ever that comes to mind. Then, I fear, a lot of information would become lost in the back pages.

Are ye in a mad rush for the kestrel and barn owl info' just yet? Or can we wait a day or three and see how this pans out, so we'll know how best to start framing answers?

trebor28

no i can wait a few days alright.

im not going to go out and try and build one tonight or anything but i suppose i would like to have something up for the birds to have a chance of nesting in one.

i think ill start small with a blue tit/wren box first and then build up to the more exotic ones you are talking about.

Ditch

Nothing exotic about a kes' box, mate. Just getting it up a great pole's the fun part! :eek:

Barn Owl? They're quite happy with just a tray, in the right circumstances.

Blue Tits? I have a very firm opinion on them. Goes against the grain. But, I have good reason.

Tell ye what; I'm just writing some nonsense on my Blog right now. I'm also fidgeting with this mad notion of going into town. Not sure.

But, it's just struck me: I can post separate threads, on here, to address ye questions. Others can then chip in on each subject.

And then, if we get a good vibe going, maybe any / all such threads could then be brought together, by the Mod's, as a Sticky or Sub Board, once it's proven viable?

Forgive me. I'm thinking on my feet here, see? I know I'm a newb here and I don't want to appear like some upstart. Only, I'm really very enthusiastic about nest boxes and have a real desire to chat to others who see them as more than some box with a hole which one picks up at B&Q.

Mothman

Ditch wrote: »

But, it's just struck me: I can post separate threads, on here, to address ye questions. Others can then chip in on each subject.

And then, if we get a good vibe going, maybe any / all such threads could then be brought together, by the Mod's, as a Sticky or Sub Board, once it's proven viable?

If what you mean by different subjects are the different nest box projects then for now I suggest we keep everything in this thread. We don't get enough traffic in Nature & Birdwatching for the admins to contemplate creating sub boards and having it all in one thread is easier to follow.

It may end up that this thread could be divided out into a number of threads and then linked to from a master thread. We'll cross this bridge if need be.

But it is great idea

Ditch

Cheers, Mothman. You're The Man!

Forgive me pinging around like a pin ball just now. I'm just having one of my turns. I think I will call a cab and run into town. (It's nicotine withdrawal, goddamnit! I'm a bit flaky! )

I'll go away for a bit. Sort my head out. Then, I'm sure, I can come back later and offer Trebor some tips on his planned ventures.

That's it. Cab called. I'm off to the pub for an hour or so. Sit and think about nest boxes ~ and this infernal niggle.

Schwegler boxes? Phwaar! Doesn't the prospect of discussing some of their stuff get you all 'excited'

Sad thing is; I'm perfectly serious!

littlebug

Ditch wrote: »

Sad thing is; I'm perfectly serious!

:D but you are funny!

Great idea for a thread. I agree that there's probably not enough traffic to warrant seperate threads on the topic for now. We could avoid any potential confusion by specifying which bird/ box you are talking about in the individual post subject heading. Sure see how it goes and we can act accordingly.

Fishy1

I would love to source one of these, but am reluctant to just buy one off the web without some recommendations. I'm keen to go wireless as I don't want to be drilling holes into the house walls to feed cables through. Not great at the DIY!
I have a small suburban garden & have lots of visitors to our 2 feeding stations (am topping up all the feeders on a daily basis at the moment!).
I'd hope to put the birdbox on the side of the house, away from the feeding stations . . . I think that's what's advised?

Open to all tips & suggestions. I love this part of Boards

Mothman

Fishy1 wrote: »

I would love to source one of these, but am reluctant to just buy one off the web without some recommendations. I'm keen to go wireless as I don't want to be drilling holes into the house walls to feed cables through. Not great at the DIY!
I have a small suburban garden & have lots of visitors to our 2 feeding stations (am topping up all the feeders on a daily basis at the moment!).
I'd hope to put the birdbox on the side of the house, away from the feeding stations . . . I think that's what's advised?

Open to all tips & suggestions. I love this part of Boards

WE already have a short thread on this subject and I may move/copy discussion from here to that thread

Ditch

I don't know if I've got this right. But, someone's asking about Blue Tit nest boxes and it seems the norm that we should discuss such a specific matter like this, from a dedicated post.

Anyway, Blue Tit boxes: Pul eeease don't go trecking off to the local garden centre or what ever and buying one of those vile little boxes ye couldn't even hide a tea mug in.

This is a personal quirk of mine and it even directly contradicts what the experts say. See, a firm called " Schwegler " make a whole range of boxes. And one of them is a dinky little tube called the " 1b ". It's become known as the national standard, sort of thing. (See one Here.) And I hate the things!

Why? Size. They're too damn small! Now, I know the argument; 'These boxes are sold in their thousands and Blue Tits use them.' True. I've seen BT's nest in the most spectacularly bad places, when pushed to it by lack of choice.

It was once a 'joke', in england, about how many (insert immigrants nationality) ye could get in one room. I'm sure it still goes on. And students pile into Mini's. But, how much of that is normal or desirable?

Here's the craic; I have an old book here. Written by a gentleman with enough money to pursue his passion for 'Bird Gardening' as a full time thing. It was all he did.

And he ran a little experiment. He provided a range of sizes of BT boxes and monitored the results. What he discovered forms the basis for my own view today.

He found that a BT, given a four inch square floor space inside a box, will fill that space with nest cup. Given an eight inch floor? They'll build a six inch nest cup and pack the rest out with filling.

See? So the BT's were showing him that they naturally liked a six inch nest cup. Any less and they were making the best of a bad situation. Any more and they had to waste energy filling up the unwanted extra space.

Point of all this? Build ye own boxes and give the BT's a Six Inch Square floor space in there. Give them a home. Don't force them into a bed sit.

25mm entrance hole.

E39MSport

You talk a lot

Half-cocked

And my 2c worth: Please don't site a nestbox where it will be in strong sunlight. Many broods have baked to death inside poorly sited nestboxes. Think about where the sun will be in the spring/summer, not where it is when you put the box up in the winter.

Ditch

Fishy1; Ye might try contacting the RSPB at Pulborough Brooks, Sussex, UK. Ask them what kit they're using.

Only, I've been there and they had a web cam set up on a Pied Wagtails nest. It was extremely good.

No idea if it was wireless or not. But, it's certainly a piece of kit that gave great results. Perhaps they could also tell ye how long they've had it. Give ye an insight to the life expectancy of what ever make it is.

littlebug

"nest boxes" and "Blue tit nest boxes" threads merged.

trebor28

yeah i know of a gate post which is made out of approx 4 inch tube iron.

last year blue tits nested inside in it. about 3 feet down the tube.

had an unfortunate ending though as the chicks could not get out when the time came.


ps.
must put some sort of a cap on it this year.

Ditch

As requested by Trebor .....

There's a very widely accepted standard plan for a kestrel nest box. It's dead basic and simple. Extremely tried and tested.

All it really is is a rectangular box. Long on the horizontal. Part of the opening, at one end, fenced from the bottom up. And a perch attached to the front fence.

Here's the sort of size ye looking at. It doesn't have to be exactly to the inch. Though, bigger is better than smaller.

Bottom board wants to be about two foot long. Foot wide. Top board must be longer, about two foot six, to allow an overhang at the front. Side walls, foot high. Back blocked in. Front with a four inch high baffle across the bottom.

Nail a rough branch to that. Let it protrude from one or both sides, if this won't get in the way when siting the box.

9mm Marine Ply is the sort of material ye looking at here. Be sure to drill drainage holes through the base board.

That's the easy bit. Now where and how the hell are ye gonna site the damn thing? It wants to be fifteen foot up, at least. Poles are the worst option.

A pole would need to be thick and strong enough, and planted firmly enough, to take your weight and a ladder, not to mention the box when ye lug it up there and screw it to the pole.

We're talking telegraph poles, realistically. Only, they're not ours to attach boxes to and we could end up dead messing on them. My advice is forget poles.

Nice big, strong tree's a good bet. One out in a field or one at the very edge of a field. Not one in the middle of a wood.

There's so many ways of attaching to a tree, I'll leave it for you to decide, according to the situation. Brass screws, bungee straps, bailer twine, what ever.

Another good site is on the side of a building. Screw a vertical plank to the side of ye box and then bolt that plank to the wall.

One last thing: Fix the box so that it's slanting slightly towards the back. See; Kestrels will keep coming back to the same box. And they can be messy. Result being that the crap they leave in the box builds up.

It's not unknown for it to build so high that eggs have rolled over it and fell out the front. Young birds can definitely scrabble out that way. Bit of a tilt makes it that much harder for nasty little accidents to happen.

EDIT
Since writing this post, it occurred to me that 'A Picture Paints A Thousand Words'. So, I took a walk with my camera.

We can't edit our older posts, so the Moddies have kindly stitched this in for me.

Look at this tree. Massive and isolated. It stands alone. Acres of 'Rough, Upland Pasture' surround it.

This is where I'd put a kestrel box ~ in a rural location ......

Ditch

Trebor also asked me about boxes for Barn Owls. E39MSport will appreciate this one. Because, all I have to say on the matter is; Read the words of the Gods of Barn Owl Boxes; Here.

There's really nothing I can add to their superb expertise. A truly fantastic site

E39MSport

Ditch wrote: »

Trebor also asked me about boxes for Barn Owls. E39MSport will appreciate this one. Because, all I have to say on the matter is; Read the words of the Gods of Barn Owl Boxes; Here.

There's really nothing I can add to their superb expertise. A truly fantastic site

trebor28

thanks for those Ditch.

couple of things about the kestrel box is, how remote would the location have to be?

would there have to be a minimum distance away from a humans residence etc.

how secluded would it have to be also. could it be out in the open like a barn owl box?

thats pretty cool about the barn owls, i thought they would need some remote location which would make it difficult but i have loads of locations where i could put up a box now.

also would there be a problem with putting up a kestrel box and a barn owl box within close proximity??

i dont mean beside each other, but within a few hundred yards or so??

Ditch

Trebor; It's hard to visualise exactly what ye have in mind there. But, the box should, preferably, be set to face the south east. (Ok. I've personally known a nest site facing west that's been used for decades! But ......)

Height, in any situation, would be more important. Get it twenty foot up and they'll feel more secure on a Dublin street than they would five foot up a solitary tree in Leitrim.

Regards siteing; As I posted ..... A lone tree is excellent. Side of a barn ~ or similar ~ is excellent. Or, any tree along a hedge line or on the field side of a wood.

Thing to look out for is that it has a wide open view from the box.

Proximity to Barn Owl boxes? I'm a BTO Nest Recorder. We have our own forum. I'm sure one of the guys on there reported kestrels nesting on top of an active Barn Owl nest box! Ye don't get much closer than that!

My choice though would be, eg. to put the owl box inside a barn and have the kestrel one on the outside wall.

trebor28

thanks Ditch.

what i meant was would they be ok for food etc when competing out of the same location.

obviously i wasnt intending to have one up against the other, but more like what you said about one inside and one outside etc.

actually there is some crows nesting nearby so that might not be good for the kestrels as they wouldnt be inclined to sight a nest where they'll be getting hassle from the crows presumably.

would it be ok for the barn owls??
as in would the crows hassle the barn owl too much??

Ditch

Trebor; The first thing to realise is that they'll both be feeding on different prey. The kestrel will concentrate on the voles, during daylight. The owls will get the wood mice, at night.

Ok. That's a very black and white view of things. But ye get the idea?

One thing we can't do anything about is the 'Vole Explosion' years. When nature lays on a good breeding season for voles, all the birds benefit and do well. Voles fail? So do their hunters. That's life.

What we can influence, on the birds behalf, is to ensure ~ as best we can ~ that what they eat is safe.

To this end, we should A/ Try to ensure we only encourage them on land where no one's poisoning the rodents.

B/ We should try to lure them into the most isolated spots. Barn Owls are buggers for hunting along road sides. They hunt at passing motor height too

So, put their boxes as far from roads as ye can. Hoping they'll hunt around the nest site and not feel the need to go as far as the road.

Crows? Gray Crows (Hooded). I'd take them out as a matter of course. But, that's just me. And it's part of my job.

They shouldn't be entering a building, to pester owls though. I've never personally heard of them entering a kestrel box either. They tend to prefer open nests. Especially of defenceless passerines.

sables2

Hi Ditch, Your a gas man :D. I'm currently in the 'process' of building my own DIY BT home...I've already taken the plunge, and it's harder then i imagined! It's only 4" x 4" floor base. I've taken the measurements from - wait: Woodies DIY :eek: Brought my own pencil and pad to take vital measurements etc. I thought their BT boxes we're..OK built. Mine bevels on the roof edges are NOT the 'mae west', but, i'm not that worried for now. Guess it'll save me some cash...€15 to be correct. Maybe on second thoughts - i'd better get the box from Woodies and just get it over with

trebor28

ya got all that ditch, thanks.

when i said crows i meant rooks, and some jackdaws thrown in too. they harass any BOP that fly in the vicinity at the moment so would probably deter any kestrel etc from sighting a nest there. the grey backs wouldnt be coming that close though there is a lot round where i am at the moment.

would a barn owl not be hunting some part of the daylight hours when raring young, seeing as night time hours would be reducing??



would a large paint tin be ok to use for a blue tit nest?

they are about 6inch diameter and if you got on of the long ones surely it would have the right dimensions??

put a few extra holes in it for ventilation of course, would that be alright?

ps.
sorry for all the questions, im not doing it to annoy you, just very curious and like to know as much as possible before hand.

Ditch

Sables; A man from Nazareth is purported to have once said: " Forgive them, father. They know not what they do. "

Blue tits are every bit as forgiving. They've been shrugging and getting on with it, as best they can, for generations.

I'd like to see that trend bucked. We can no longer use the excuse of ignorance. We know blue tits prefer a six inch box. I feel it's just economics that makes so many supposedly 'reputable' firms keep banging out these inferior, 'bedsit' boxes.

Fifteen quid? For a fraction of that ye can buy a plank long and wide enough to make several boxes from. Proper boxes.

Come on. Let's put the world to rights. Starting with blue tit nest boxes.

" Today; Blue tits. Tomorrow? Starlings! "

Ditch

Trebor; I genuinely do like ye way of thinking. Bravo! You're a man who views the bigger picture. After my own heart

Rooks and Jackdaws? Rooks, obviously, tend to congregate in their own 'hoods. Though, of course, they do break away now and then. First they roost apart from 'The Flock'. Then one of them will actually start a nest in that big ol' tree. Bingo! New Rookery begins.

Kestrels have had to live with this for millennia. Look at Detroit. Has it stopped white people living in USA?

Jackdaws aren't so colonial. Thus ye need only try to avoid bringing about a head on collision. Site ye kestrel boxes where 'daws aren't obviously nesting.


Barn owls? Of course they hunt, partially, by day. But, they sort of pass the kestrels as the latter drag their weary bodies home, after a long shift.

Broadly speaking? Kestrels do the day shift. Owls the night. Mice and voles aren't actually half as fussy. Thus we can only generalise ourselves. Not much is 'black and white' in nature.


Paint tins? I can see where ye coming from. Thankfully, my own 'passion' (Alright; Border line Obsession!) has led to me studying all this so long and hard that the answers are now, largely, registered.

A tin nest box would prove a death trap. An oven by day. Dripping hell by night. Insulation / Condensation. Doesn't work out. See? Plastic is little better ~ though I understand some people mess with plastic pipes?

Nah. Wood. Birds nested in wood long before man thought to make a nest box. Schwegler use " Woodcrete ". Good for them. It's better than wood. If only we could buy them here ~ without needing a mortgage!



" ps.
sorry for all the questions, I'm not doing it to annoy you, just very curious and like to know as much as possible before hand. "

My friend; People like you are my life blood. Annoy me? If only more people cared so much. Thought so much. Asked!

Then we could get the word out

E39MSport

@Ditch
I'm living in a bungalow. Would the chimney stack be an acceptable location (correct aspect of course) for a Kestrel box?

Cheers,

Ditch

E39MSport; Location / environment would have some bearing on it. Eg. If ye live in the middle of a city, there'd probably be places available which kestrels would consider a better choice.

However, if ye more rural? Then there's no reason such a position shouldn't be tried. I'm thinking about strapping a Jackdaw box to one of my chimneys. I live in a farm cottage, in the middle of no where. Jack's always nested inside my chimneys ~ till I came here and needed to use them.

Thing to bear in mind is that kestrels aren't quite like blue tits or starlings: Ye can't just pop a box up and expect it to be adopted straight away. Might take a few years.

Bonus is though that once ye get kestrels, ye have them pretty much for ever more

Judgement Day

Sorry to barge into your 'private' chat lads but I have an interest in nestboxes - I fantasise every year about getting one with CCTV but never do - and here is my tuppence worth. There are several sites including: http://www.bto.org/nnbw/make.htm and http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/helpingbirds/nestboxes/smallbirds/index.aspx which offer lots of advice, drawings etc. The Birdtable Book by Tony Soper is another readily available source of information on precisely how to build, site etc your nestbox.


I'm thinking mainly of the novice birdwatcher looking in on this thread who might be tempted to either have a 'stab' at building their own box or buying some gimcrack box from their local garden centre/supermarket. It's not a game, birds lives may depend on the proper construction of your box e.g. materials used (not coated in preservatives; not leaky or draughty due to poor construction and not sited facing into the prevailing winds and sunshine.

As I say, just my thoughts but all sorts of talk of using paintpots or just having a go sets alarm bells ringing with me. As Clint Eastwood said 'A good man has got to know his limitations' - i.e. do it properly or buy a BTO/RSPB/Birdwatch Ireland approved box.

Ditch

JD; Hardly a 'private' discussion, is it

Paint tin 'boxes'? Yes; They've been suggested and ~ if ye'd care to read it ~ I promptly explained how they'd be death traps and shouldn't be contemplated.

I also state: " Plastic is little better. " Yet, did ye know your man Tony Soper there once put his name to a plastic nest box? Gives the switched on a pretty good idea of how much this 'Professional TV Celebrity' really knows about what he espouses. Hence I wouldn't buy his book for loo paper.

Want The working manual on nest boxes and all about them? Look no further than the BTO Guide 23; " NestBoxes ", by Chris du Feu.

I have several editions of it. It gets up dated now and then, as our level of understanding grows and new discoveries come to light.

I've also already covered the " RSPB Approved " type boxes. The Schwegler " 1b ". I believe that's crap too. And, again, I've stated my reasoning. I've done the same on 'Garden Centre' bought boxes.

I'm basing what I'm saying here on half a century of hands on experience. I also have a small personal library of nest box books. I'm an active member of the BTO Nest Recording Scheme. I guess we could say my finger's on the pulse .....

In short; Relax. Anyone who takes the small trouble to read what I'm putting on this thread will soon enough recognise that I'm not about to dish out bad advice and endanger birds.

Granted, the form of this thread is unfortunate and working against us. I'm having to bounce around answering questions at random. Thus 'set pieces' like the Blue Tit post are getting lost in all the 'chat'. I'm thinking of discussing Starling boxes next. Sadly, that too will have to be searched for amidst all this.

Anyway, I started this thread in the hope of turning up someone else with a real passion for next boxes. I'm gagging to chat with such a person and exchange views.

Are you the one? Ever got ye hands on a Schwegler 'Wagtail' box? What's ye thoughts on the depth of a Great Tit box? Any experience with Coal Tits?

See? I want to chat. Till such time, I'm stuck here banging out 'Fact Sheets' in an effort to encourage interest and proper understanding in others. Ok so far as it goes. Bit one sided though

Of course, I too could just say, " Buy a book / box ". Only, I know enough to recognise there's a whole load of crap out there. " Approved " or not.