New Minister for Justice

Sparks

Well, we don't know who it'll be, but Dermot Ahern just resigned...

LB6

They're like rats of a sinking ship at this rate - Harney's gone too - she wasn't much help to her department either.

tommyboy26

Sparks wrote: »

Well, we don't know who it'll be, but Dermot Ahern just resigned...

hopefully his replacement will be more pro shooting sports.....

Sparks

LB6 wrote: »

They're like rats of a sinking ship at this rate - Harney's gone too - she wasn't much help to her department either.

And Dempsey and Kileen as well.
But it's not a mass resignation. It's a continuation of Cowen's confidence motion from the other day - they're now demonstrating the depth of their confidence in him by letting him run everything

Sparks

tommyboy26 wrote: »

hopefully his replacement will be more pro shooting sports.....

Well, his replacement would be in office for at most two months before the General Election - assuming, that is, that Cowen doesn't take the hint and just call it a day...

LB6

Are you kiddin' me - that would be too much like common sense!:D

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

Well, his replacement would be in office for at most two months before the General Election - assuming, that is, that Cowen doesn't take the hint and just call it a day...

He is getting his Hip replaced so that's why he resigned.

The Taoiseachs office will take the role for the next few weeks and status quo....

kmart6

Didn't Ahern go weeks ago?!

homerhop

In all fairness I cant think of any minister out there who will do us any favours. Our sport will always be used as a whipping boy to keep the masses appeased.

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

He is getting his Hip replaced so that's why he resigned.

I'm somewhat skeptical of that

Cass

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

The Taoiseachs office will take the role for the next few weeks and status quo....

................. and transport, foreign affairs, health, etc, etc. :rolleyes:

kmart6 wrote: »

Didn't Ahern go weeks ago?!

He made a statment saying he would not contest the next election (as did a few others). Funny how they hung on enough to see Cowen survive the motion last night.

Sparks wrote: »

I'm somewhat skeptical of that

You're not on your own.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Well, we don't know who it'll be, but Dermot Ahern just resigned...

ABSOLUTLY no loss.Good riddance and bad luck to him !:mad:
So he slithers off with 300k PA of our money,leaving a big brown steaming mess for us to shovel out.As well as making Ireland the darling of the nuttier Muslim countries with our exellent blasphemy law[for them that is!!].

As for the rest of the "soilders of destiny" now deserting their posts.

The Germans had an expression for it in the last war in Berlin at the end.. Flug der gold fasanen .Flight of the Golden pheasents [A nickname the Berliners gave high ranking NSDAP leaders and shakers,because of all the gold on their uniforms].When the Russkies were knocking on the door for a bit of a word about things in general.

So the FF golden pheasents are finally taking flight.They have no gold to their names or their party.Just our gold in their pensions and handshakes.:mad:
Hopefully we will do the same to them[figurativly speaking of course, although I dont think very many would mind the practical application of it too.] As what the Allies did to them in 1948 in Nurenburg.

funkyouup

Some back bencher maybe, doubt it will make much of a difference. Plenty of time to start worrying after the next election.

rowa

too little too late , the damage is long since done and can be seen in the court appeals calamity the length and breath of the country. who are the 14% in the polls who say they'd vote for ff again ? the irish union of village idiots or who ?

phantom_lord

rowa wrote: »

who are the 14% in the polls who say they'd vote for ff again ? the irish union of village idiots or who ?

It's the "FF are useless, but Pat down the road is a grand chap" factor.

Don't think the next Minister for Justice matters a whole lot, he's not going to get the opportunity to do much.

sfakiaman

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

He is getting his Hip replaced so that's why he resigned....

I heard that he was getting a heart fitted to his pacemaker but the heart rejected him.

Sparks

phantom_lord wrote: »

Don't think the next Minister for Justice matters a whole lot, he's not going to get the opportunity to do much.

Pretty much. From our point of view, almost all of the changes we want to see require a new Act; and there's (a) no time to draw one up, no matter how much the new guy wants to, and (b) there's already a list of the legislation the government is going to deal with before a general election is called, and there's no Act from the Minister for Justice on that list, so (s)he'd have no opportunity to put one forward.

The only change they'd have time to do is to change an SI, like the one that defines the restricted list; that could see centerfire pistols brought back in, but it's not very likely that they'd do that just before an election where they're desperate to be seen as competent (and overturning a major policy of your immediate predecessor who's out the door less than a month, and who everyone knows you're following in less than a month isn't going to make you look competent). At best you might hope to lobby this new Minister on the grounds that there's an election coming and he's desperate for any votes at all to keep his seat as a TD (let alone as Minister), and that shouldn't be underestimated; but I think this time, they might actually have taken the hint that we don't really want them around anymore, and that resignation to the inevitable takes the edge off their desperation.

I think the new Minister is basicly going to be a caretaker for a few weeks and that any real changes we're looking for will be coming off the real new Minister after the general election, if I'm honest.

Sparks

And the new Minister for Justice is....
Minister Brendan Smith (late of the Agriculture department).

johngalway

Sparks wrote: »

And the new Minister for Justice is....
Minister Brendan Smith (late of the Agriculture department).

Oh wonderful..............

Not I have to put up with that muppet in Farming as well as Shooting. Just wonderful :mad:

Sparks

It's only for a few weeks though John, the General Election was announced just now for March 11

And to correct a whoopsie, they didn't move Smith from Agriculture to Justice, they've given him Justice as well as Agriculture...

johngalway

Sparks wrote: »

It's only for a few weeks though John

Wash your mouth out with soap!

Those clowns can do a lot of damage from now to then. MORE SO the clowns that have the concentrated power now.

Should have gone to the Park today, but as I said in Politics they wouldn't.

rowa

i'm glad we have seen the last of ahern (both of them) , he was a spiteful individual and i am told extremely ambitious wanting to run ff , he didn't achieve anything but the persecution of the law abiding shooting community and a unnecessary law on blasphemy , if he could have inconvienced the criminal classes as well as he inconvienced us he would have done well.
who is favourite to get the post of minister of justice in the next fg/lab gov ? is it pat rabbitt ?

Sparks

rowa wrote: »

if he could have inconvienced the criminal classes as well as he inconvienced us he would have done well.

And with Operation Anvil, he was inconviencing them quite effectively.
Can't imagine why he'd then cut their budget in half...

who is favourite to get the post of minister of justice in the next fg/lab gov ? is it pat rabbitt ?

More likely to be Howlin if it goes to Labour or Flanagan if it goes to FG, I would have thought. But Rabbitte would want a senior ministry, and both Health and Finance are currently poisoned chalices, so he might go for Justice. At this point, who knows?

rowa

Sparks wrote: »

And with Operation Anvil, he was inconviencing them quite effectively.
Can't imagine why he'd then cut their budget in half...


More likely to be Howlin if it goes to Labour or Flanagan if it goes to FG, I would have thought. But Rabbitte would want a senior ministry, and both Health and Finance are currently poisoned chalices, so he might go for Justice. At this point, who knows?

yes but the inconviencing of the criminals was temporary , ours is permanent and enshrined in law , as for their budget being cut in half , well the money for his lotto-esqe pension had to come from somewhere

freddieot

the money they need for Court Cases has to come from somewhere as well...

daveob007

no point in going on about the new justice minister now,only a few weeks left in power so nothing he can do.
our only hope of real justice is in the new government,probably fg and their justice spokesman is alan shatter.
I have already written to Michael noonan about our issues and he forwarded my mail to shatter.
so maybe with a new minister and new party and also with the new garda chief we might have some chance,or maybe worse to come?
its now,today we need to start contacting our shooting reps and candidates and get the ball rolling.

rowa

daveob007 wrote: »

no point in going on about the new justice minister now,only a few weeks left in power so nothing he can do.
our only hope of real justice is in the new government,probably fg and their justice spokesman is alan shatter.
I have already written to Michael noonan about our issues and he forwarded my mail to shatter.
so maybe with a new minister and new party and also with the new garda chief we might have some chance,or maybe worse to come?
its now,today we need to start contacting our shooting reps and candidates and get the ball rolling.

but the new garda chief was appointed by bullet head and ff so thats not a great start.

Bananaman

It's better to approach these things with a positive outlook.

We have a new Garda Commissioner - he has had positive dealings with the shooting NGBs in the past - we would hope that he will again in the future.

We will have a new Minister for Justice - hopefully he/she will have a more pragmatic approach to their portfolio and look to make a difference to the crime stats in this country.

Obviously the civil servants stay the same - the same people will be advising the Minister and the Commissioner - hopefully their advice will also be more focused on the problems of crime.

I see all this an an opportunity - change is a good thing - perhaps it will not make any difference but there is a chance - we had no chance with the last crop.

B'Man

Sparks

And the new Minister for Justice is...

Alan Shatter

Just announced.

Tackleberrywho

Sparks wrote: »

And the new Minister for Justice is...

Alan Shatter

Just announced.

Jaubus we're all fecked, he hates guns!

Sparks

And our new Minister for Sport is Jimmy Deenihan.

shanmoll308

A fellow Kerry man.

Shanmoll308

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

And our new Minister for Sport is Jimmy Deenihan.

Ah. Whoops. No, sorry, my bad - they've moved Sports from the Department of Arts, Sports And Tourism to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sports. So Arts gets Deenihan, but the new Minister for Sport is now Leo Varadkar.

dos29

Possible silly question alert.....
Are ministry's for justice and defence held by one person now? As in Shatter?
Or has it been that way for a while?

Sparks

Not a silly question dos; yes, Shatter now has both Justice and Defence, and no, that's a new thing. They've moved around the portfolios a bit:

Eamon Gilmore Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade
Minister for Finance Michael Noonan
Minister for Education and Skills Ruarai Quinn
Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Brendan Howlin
Minister for Enterprise, Jobs and Innovation Richard Bruton
Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton
Minister for Arts, Heritage and Gaeltacht Affairs Jimmy Deenihan
Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government Phil Hogan
Minister for Agriculture Marine and Food Simon Coveney
Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Pat Rabbitte
Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence Alan Shatter
Minister for Children Francis Fitzgerald
Minister for Health James Reilly
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport Leo Varadkar

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Jaubus we're all fecked, he hates guns!

I dunno Tack, he's asked a fair few parlimentary questions for target shooters. On the other hand, he was listed as the president of ICABS for a while, but I think that lot have listed every TD ever as a president at some point (being honorary president of a group made up of 20 people isn't exactly what you'd call a big role, and not only is official FG party policy not ICABS friendly - they plan to repeal the stag hunting ban - but Shatter voted against the stag hunting ban when it was introduced. I don't think ICABS liked him for that, they were calling on people to contact him to complain at the time. )
And while we didn't get a great initial statement from Fine Gael on firearms policy, later discussions with FG TDs on a direct basis were far more promising.
It's not utterly hopeless just yet I think.

kildare.17hmr

From alan shatters personal profile on his website

As a student, Alan was Director of the Crumlin Free Legal Advice Centre (FLAC) and later became Chairman of FLAC. He subsequently became Chairman of CARE (Campaign for Deprived Children) and was for many years President of the Irish Council against Blood Sports.

meathshooter1

sporting firearms should be taken from justice and come under the minister for sports brief

johngalway

You know, there's a thread on going over in Nature & Birdwatching expressing alarm that Phil Hogan has been appointed Minister for the Environment. Mothman wisely said he's going to base his opinion on performance. Which is what I'm going to do with Shatter. I'm not over joyed at his appointment given his past (?) interests, but we'll have to see how he cuts his cloth.

johngalway

shanmoll308 wrote: »

A fellow Kerry man.

Shanmoll308

We're all doomed!

Sparks

meathshooter1 wrote: »

sporting firearms should be taken from justice and come under the minister for sports brief

It's not a horrible idea. The problem does arise of distinguishing between sporting firearms and other firearms though.

The point of Justice and Sport being more closely linked here was made a few years back though - that's why the Minister for Sport is represented on the FCP by the Irish Sports Council. Though, it does feel like they've not taken that role very seriously...

Sparks

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

From alan shatters personal profile on his website

Yes, but he voted against the Stag Hunting ban, and his party's pledged to repeal that ban. And ICABS has a habit of appointing anyone to their presidency who looks like they might see the inside of the Dail in the next century. It's worrying, but it's not the end of days just yet.

daveob007

i have already sent my email to fg michael noonan as my local rep who then passed it on to the justice spokesperson,,it outlined my frustration with aherns failed cjb.
too early for a reply just yet,,let them enjoy the honeymoon period.

btw anyone know if deasy got in??? just curious.

kildare.17hmr

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, but he voted against the Stag Hunting ban, and his party's pledged to repeal that ban. And ICABS has a habit of appointing anyone to their presidency who looks like they might see the inside of the Dail in the next century. It's worrying, but it's not the end of days just yet.

didnt know he voted against the stag hunt bill. just thought if he felt the need to have it on his personal profile on his own website it must mean something to him like

Sparks

Votes from bambi-lovers I'd guess

kildare.17hmr

hopefully

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

It's not a horrible idea. The problem does arise of distinguishing between sporting firearms and other firearms though.

FFS! Are we off on THIS again????

A gun is a GUN is a GUN!! Wether it has a weird stock, goes Phutt instead of BANG.Is day glo pink or evil black.It is irrevelant!! They ALL have a sporting purpose here in the ROI if they are liscensed and in civillian hands.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

FFS! Are we off on THIS again????
A gun is a GUN is a GUN!! Wether it has a weird stock, goes Phutt instead of BANG.Is day glo pink or evil black.It is irrevelant!! They ALL have a sporting purpose here in the ROI if they are liscensed and in civillian hands.

Feck's sake Grizzly, take a breath and re-read the post, it's not saying what you think it says.
The idea of having the Department of Sport handle licencing for target shooting is not a horrible one.
The problem is the Minister of Justice will immediately point out that you can't distinguish a sporting firearm from a non-sporting firearm. (And we do licence non-sporting firearms - the largest group of licenced firearms in the state are non-sporting firearms, usually single-barrel shotguns, licenced to farmers).

Grizzly 45

Whoa!Whoa!whoa! your post at 21;36 is saying somthing totally different to what you are saying here! You have just added another sentence to this one which gives it a totally different meaning.
So which one will it be??If you want to clarify the point with this ..fine! But it does look vauge and discriminitory.
Somhow I think it wouldnt be beyond anyone in a ministerial dept to figure out that a Full Auto Uzi is not the same as a precision "tacticool" bolt action.[Ok they might have a bit of trouble if it was a semi auto UZI carbine,with a solid woodstock and 21.5 in barrel and somone is whispering poision in their uneducated ear.]
Point being could we give them some credit to know the difference??

You do know that as well as "shooting virmin"AKA hunting,[wether you can eat it or not doesnt come into the legislation] with the old single or DBBL barrel,the Gaurds will also accept clay piegon shooting as a good reason to posses a shotgun on your farm land.Ergo they falls under sporting firearms for statistical and legislative sake.

As for the minister for sport handling this ..nice thought,but we as shooters are really the red haired child of the Irish sports.We can lug back medals be the wheelbarrow load here,gold,silver ,platinium,but we might be lucky to get the middle page spread of somthing if it is a slow news day,and the over 90s Grannies olympic knitting finals are having a slow day!Point is;if we are treated with that much contempt by the media and the sports world in Ireland,what sort of a hames would they make accidently or on purpose of the legislation??
I'd rather see this been run by a new dept starting afresh with civillian personel with a knowledgeable base of legislation and firearms and related matters,and a Garda liasion officer simply for criminal checks on applicants.
With proper computerisation and redoing the liscense to a five year plastic chip embedded credit card.This could be run by oh what??Ten people??
We can live in hope!:rolleyes:

Sparks

And the .308 deer-hunting rifle that gets used in a friendly target shooting match at the MNSCI for a bit of fun? You and I both know Grizzly, lines get fuzzier the closer you look at them in our sport, and so the idea of splitting up the licencing between two different Departments - even if it'd make sense on one level - is never going to happen for pragmatic, practical reasons (as well as for conservative policy-level ones).

Grizzly 45

Agree100% with you on the fuzzy lines and thats my original point too!
Cal it target shooting or hunting in the broadest terms of what we do here,they are irrespective sporting firearms.No matter what they look like or have on them or colour or how many shots they hold.