Owner spends no time with puppy and leaves it alone all day. Is this neglect?

Pisco Sour

Hi all, I'm not an expert on dogs but I am living in a shared accomodation with 6 other people, one of whom was allowed by the idiot landlords to bring a dog (called Sammy) in.

I have written much about it on this thread at after hours about how the owner doesnt care about anybody else in the house and leaves the dog outside in the back garden outside out rooms which ends up waking us up when the dog starts screaming. When I tried to be civil when talking to him about it he got annoyed and sort of threatened me.

Here is the thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056151507

However on this thread I want it to be more about the situation the poor dog is in.

He is the worst dog owner ever. He is a chef and so works 12 hours a day usually and so leaves the puppy out back on its own all day. That dog is miserable. It is the sadest, most depressed dog I have ever seen. It spends most of its time crying. He usually brings the dog into his room at night but he actually left the dog outside all night two nights ago, outside our bedroom windows. Incredibly rude. The thing cried with misery, then roared with anger, knocked over the bins completely getting agitated. The thing doesnt get much exercise, he never takes it for walks really. The dog was left outside for 23 hours in total.

Yesterday it got worse. After bringing his dog in for an hour last night he quickly sent it back outside where it remained for another 24 hours. Then he brought it in for another hour and he then amazingly sent it back outside (right outside my bedroom) for the night again. Enough was enough and I asked him why is he leaving the dog outside and that its inconsiderate of other people who are trying to sleep. He got very pissed off, and told me I'd want to watch myself and that I wouldnt want to get him angry. I said why is he not bringing the dog into his room at night anymore and he said because its p1ssing in his room (completely untrained the dog is). I said that it needs to be trained and he told me not to tell him what to do. He says he pays more rent than me (no sh1t shirlock considering he chose the most expensive room) so I dont have much of a say. I tried to talk to him in as much of a peaceful way as possible but he looked on the verge of becoming agressive. I said that I have every right to air my concerns, and he said "well you've aired your concerns and I dont give two sh1ts about them".

In addtion to this the dog (who is still a puppy, and not trained at all) has destroyed peoples clothes hanging to dry on the clothes line, chewed up one of the girls computer mouse, jumped in through the open window and knocked all the rubbish bins over. I cant blame the dog, its not his fault of course.

At the start I hated the dog as I wasnt happy with it being around but now I've realised it aint the dogs fault at all. He is totally helpless and being ignored for about 95% of the day by his owner. I actually love the dog now (and I have never been a dog person really) and feel real pity for him. I came back from work tonight at 8pm and no surprise the dog was standing at the back door crying (God only knows for how long). It is now 1.45am and the pr1ck of an owner is still not home. I have gone out to the dog about 7 times tonight and played with him as I cant let the thing suffer anymore and have spent about an hour and a half with him in total (not as a favour to that twat but for the dogs sake). But the puppy is not my (or any of the other housemates) responsibility and I can only so much. I wouldnt let him in the house though. I know its cruel but its not fair on the other housemates and on me if I did as the thing would cause a mess and wake everybody up. It gets so hyper and jumpy when it gets let in at the end of each day.

I'm wondering would all this classify as dog neglect and what can I do. From what I've heard as long as the dog has "adequate" shelter, food and water, which he probably does (just about) then there is nothing much that can be done. Also if I was to call the ASPCA (or whatever they are called) and somnething was done he would know it was me and he'd probably get violent physically towards me. He seems to have a short, agressive fuse.

I really wish this dog was staying with a nice family with some young children who would look after it and love it and not leave it for 24 hours at a time in a sh1thole back yard.

Here are some pics of the dog. They perfectly capture just how miserable the thing is:

Pisco Sour

One more pic. This photo is basically what the dog does for 50% of the day. Stands in this spot just outside the door waiting for his owner to come back and rescue him from the boredom and loneliness.

Cherry Blossom

For anyone who may know of any relevant procedures with authorities etc or legislation - the OP is in Sydney, Australia.

Pisco Sour

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

For anyone who may know of any relevant procedures with authorities etc or legislation - the OP is in Sydney, Australia.

Melbourne

Cherry Blossom

:rolleyes:, Don't know where I got Sydney form .

A good starting point for you, keep a record of dates and times, how often he interacts with the dog, what he does during these times, when it gets fed, gets water, when it crys and how long for. Write it all down.

Also include any conversations/confrontations you have with the owner and who said what, verbal assault is still assault and is a criminal offence!

liah

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Also include any conversations/confrontations you have with the owner and who said what, verbal assault is still assault and is a criminal offence!

Sorry to derail a tiny bit, but is this true? I'd imagine things like death threats etc are criminal offenses but just having a go at someone isn't, surely?

Wolfe Tone

liah wrote: »

Sorry to derail a tiny bit, but is this true? I'd imagine things like death threats etc are criminal offenses but just having a go at someone isn't, surely?

It depends, did they scare you, make you feel you were gonna get a box?

Pisco Sour

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

A good starting point for you, keep a record of dates and times, how often he interacts with the dog, what he does during these times, when it gets fed, gets water, when it crys and how long for. Write it all down.

He usually takes him into his room when he is home, as the rest of the housemates (me included dont want it roaming around the house).

I do have a job, life etc though so I am away from the house a good bit so it can be hard to get all that information to be honest.

I think some nights he stays at his girlfriends place. Its 2.10am now and he hasnt been home to let the dog in so I suspect thats where he is now. He surely is some c0ck!

Its funny, during our discussion last night he said to me do I have any idea how hard it was for him to find a place to live where he could bring the dog with him, and that all appartments were out of the question. Along with the pure ignorance of bringing a dog into shared accomodation it has never occured to him that a single chef who works insane hours shouldnt have a puppy in the first place!!

Cherry Blossom

liah wrote: »

Sorry to derail a tiny bit, but is this true? I'd imagine things like death threats etc are criminal offenses but just having a go at someone isn't, surely?

If you percieve them to be a threat it is assault, the law as it stands in England & Wales so quite likely in Australia also.

<Edit> Road rage for example can be classed as assault.

Cherry Blossom

04072511 wrote: »

I do have a job, life etc though so I am away from the house a good bit so it can be hard to get all that information to be honest.

Just write down what you see/hear/notice. The kind of points you have put in your opening post.

Tranceypoo

Firstly, get on to the RSPCA, here is the link http://www.rspca.org.au/ phone them, get them to put you onto the local org in Melbourne and talk to them, explain the whole thing and see what they say/advise.

Secondly, talk to your landlord. This guy sounds like a class A arsehole and he is intimidating and threatening you, you shouldn't have to live like that and neither should that poor dog.

Let us know how you get on but please do call the RSPCA first and foremost for help.

coffee_cake

Please for the love of god ring the RSPCA, that poor puppy

Jumpy

How many tenants?

Organise a meeting with the landlord without him and state your issues.

Argue that you want him removed or the rest of you will up and leave.

MsFifers

Could you help the dog "escape" ... ie fake a hole in the fence & bring the dog to a rescue centre? The poor critter - it is no life for an animal that need companionship as much as dogs do.

The other thing is maybe to try talking again to your housemate. Although you were trying to be reasonable, people do react defensively if they feel they are being criticised.

Maybe try an approach like saying how much you are getting fond of the dog, and that you played with him for a while and how great he is. If your housemate feels like you share an interest with him (ie the dog), he might be more open to talking about the dog's welfare.

I know its not your responsibility, but you could always bring the dog for walks & learn how to train it yourself. Maybe if it was housetrained, all the tenants of your house could be buddies for the poor thing.

Cherry Blossom

RSPCA Victoria - Online complaint form:

http://www.rspcavic.org/rspca_services/inspectoratecomplaintform.htm

Phone no. on there for anonymous complaints also.

sassychick

This poor baby...ring the rspca...if he is gone for long periods of time is he leaving sufficent water and food for him...if no is he expecing you and your house mates todo it...could some of your other housemates have a word he sounds like a rite eegit...this poor dog doesnt deserve it..please let us know the outcome...hopefully rspca ge involved:mad::(

Discodog

Definitely call the RSPCA but also consider other options as the Law in Victoria is like the old UK law. In other words they haven't introduced a proper Animal Welfare Act. This could mean that whilst, to any animal lover it is neglect, it may not be in law. This is because the older cruelty laws do not recognise companionship as a basic need. If the dog has shelter, food, water & is in reasonable condition then it may be totally legal. But the RSPCA are still your first port of call as they will have the experience.

Pisco Sour

Well 7.50am this morning and I was woken up by the dog howling and crying and bashing into things getting agitated, trying to escape. And guess what, it was right outside my window. Not only is this unfair on the dog but it is blatent disregard for fellow housemates leaving him out there alll night.

Also I needed to take an inhaler this morning as I was very short of breath. This ahsnt happened in awhile. But the morning after playingn with the dog I need an inhaler. An astmatic like myself cant take care of a dog!

I wonder if the dog realises he is over near my bedroom window. Maybe all the attntion I am giving it is backfiring. Who knows!

Zapperzy

That is most definitely neglect. Your housemate sounds like a class A pr1ck, from what you've said he doesn't really care for the dog he just likes the idea of 'owning' a dog and the occasional (an hour a day) novelty of a dog, but of course when the reality kicks in that dogs need training and will pee in the house and won't just sit there quiet all day until that occasional hour a day attention comes he just kicks it outside.

I don't know what the laws are like over there, over here if the dog has food, water and shelter there's little that can be done, if it's much the same over there and the dog is getting all of those Id consider the dog 'escaping', and if possible find somewhere else to live. It sounds like he wouldn't miss it anyways. Don't hesitate to call the RSPCA anyways and see what they can do.

Pisco Sour

I rang up the RSPCA but they had me on hold for 15 minutes waiting so I gave up.

I rang some other company but they said they cant enforce anything so I jut had a chat to the lady over the phone about it and she said the laws only relate to shelter, food and water, so unless I can prove that he isnt getting enough water then theres nothing I can do.

My housemates also said that they dont think I should walk the dog as it is not my dog and he may not be happy if he found out that I walked it without his permission.

This dog is f*cked for life it seems.

Zapperzy

If thats the case then I would give the rspca another try, and then could the front door/side gate accidently be left open if they can do nothing? Maybe give some local shelters a ring and see if they would take him in. He looks like a lovely dog. Being left out the back on his own is no life for him, if the 'owner' (I use that term loosely) was genuinely in a tough situation with working long hours and was genuinely try to put in an effort with this dog I would say just offer your help but he doesn't seem to give two monkeys about him. :mad:

Princess Aries

Not really OP, the dog is not fooked for life.. you obviously are a good person and made the effort to put in a very detailed first post and took time to take all those pic's and load them on of the little guy.. surely that must have taken more than 15mins?? would it not be worth your while to ring the RSPCA again and wait until you get to speak to someone? Even if you are on for half an hour, its only 30mins of your life to help a needy animal??

If you dont get any joy from them, then a "faked escape" might be the way to go? 2b honest sounds like its only a matter of time before Sammy finds a way to get out himself.. Most dogs that have been socially neglected like him end up with behaviour problems, excessive barking, digging etc and trying to escape from there environment.

At least if you took him to a rescue and said you found him wandering around your neighbourhood it would be better than him really escaping and ending up god knows where? The only worry tho is if the dog is Microchipped ? because if he is then he will just end up back with its Irresponsible Owner! If you defo know he is not microchipped im sure it would be safe enough to bring him to a rescue minus his collar. Rescues are quite strict so you know he would hopefully end up in a good home.. All the poor guy needs is some TLC from a dog lover and some proper training which just takes time and patience.. All of the things he is defo not going to get where he is now!

Those pics broke my heart to look at and the thoughts of him being left out there all that time, but in saying that he looks quite healthy and not underweight so "The Great Escape" might be your best option..

Please do something tho, this situation isn't going to magically get better over night, the poor fella is going to just get more and more anxious and could then turn agressive through that anxiety.. Thats the last thing I'm sure you want.

Plse keep us all informed of Sammys situation! If I was a few thousand miles closer I'd nearly rescue him from that garden meself!!;)

The Sweeper

Faked escape won't work. The dog is microchipped. The coloured tag on his collar is a registration tag for the local council, and if he's registered then he'll be chipped. As soon as you deliver the dog to a rescue centre, they'll scan his chip and call the chef to say they have his dog. You cannot transfer ownership of a microchipped animal in Victoria without the owner's written consent.

The dog looks like a beagle, but I don't think his conformation is good - those splayed front feet. However if he was sold to the chef as a pedigree, very possibly from a backyard breeder because they're common in Victoria, then chances are the chef paid anywhere up to $1,500 or more for the dog. That price tag will do a lot to stop him listening to any advice on rehoming or care of the dog.

My suggestion would be you complain to your landlord. Document everything that's happened and present the landlord with a complaint. He may force the chef to either move out, or rehome the dog.

You can also contact your neighbours to see if the dog is bothering them. If he is, you can ask them to lodge a complaint with the council. The council will ask them if they've contacted the chef directly, because councils rather people try to resolve matters themselves. If you get the neighbours to press that the chef is unapproachable, they will send the rangers out to discuss the complaint with the chef. A visit from the rangers may persuade the chef that he needs to do better by the dog.

The other option is you call your local council yourself and ask to speak to the animal control division and discuss it with the rangers. If you tell them you're concerned about the dog being a nuisance with barking and behaviour, and describe the chef's reaction and threats to you, you may be able to give them a heads up about a time and day when he's home where they can call out to speak to him.

The animal control laws down here do make provision against nuisance dogs, e.g. barking, howling, so on. If the beagle's being a nuisance, the rangers can intervene. The RSPCA may not be able to do much given that the dog is not neglected on paper - e.g. has food, water, shelter, so on.

Final option is to join DOL Australia and post this same thread there under General Dog Discussion - http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showforum=6. There are folks on there who may be able to help or offer suggestions because they'll know the law down here.

Pisco Sour

I have to head to work now so I wont be able to reply for awhile.

I took more pics of him today. Firsty of the dog just lying depressed in front of the front door, and then I took pics of it during and after I played with it and the difference is astonishing. The thing actually smiled. First time I saw it smile.

I'll post the pics up later.

I dont get the feeling the rest of the housemates are too concerned about the dog. Feel sorry for him yes but they dont seem too bothered with its suffering.

Also the Dog is microchipped as was asked above.

Glowing

This thread is breaking my heart

Edit. do u think getting a visit from the rspca would persuade him to surrender the dog? you could ask them to say a concerned neighbour made the complaint. you really can't move out unless something is done, else the dog will have such a miserable life Failing that, steal the dog when you move and give him to a friend on the QT

jjjade

hey

i am aware you are in Oz. i had a issue like this, my neighbour locked their dog from 9-5 in the kennel while she went to work, the poor thing would cry all day!!!!

i rang for advice from the rspca, and they advised that they are powerless, the law is as long as they have water, food and shelter, nothing they can do!!!!!

since then the dog is living in the garden and is soooo happy, i think the neighbours kept mentioning it and she got sick of being watched

i really do feel for you and your house mates with the noise, you all probably work really hard aswell and deserve a lie in without being woken up!!! you spending time with the dog even for a little bit makes the dog happy and u feel a tiny bit better about the situation so really good for you, you are doing a great thing for the dog!!! this story is breaking my heart, she/he is fabulous and soooo cute!!! how could the owner do that to something so loyal and helpless!!!

i would suggest like everyone ring the aspca and see if they can advise you. also contact the landlord as it is there house and their responsibility that all tenants are living in a good and friendly environment. i know that if you rent out a field and the person who pays this lease keeps neglected horses on it, that is the landlords responsibility aswell!!! maybe this works for houses?

keep us posted i would love a happy ending for this little guy, if all else fails but him on a plane to ireland and i will pick him up

Pisco Sour

I adore the dog to be perfectly honest. Its impossible not to especially given the circumstances. The stupid thing has been all I have been able to think of today and it is genuinely breaking my heart (and that is something for a male who is not a traditional dog lover to say).

First up there have been a lot of suggestions (maybe more so on the other thread) for me to take the dog and just give it away. That is theft, and is a criminal offence, especially if the owner paid good money (or indeed any money) for it. So that can not happen.

I came home from work at 10pm and the dog was alone in the garden of course! Played with it and even let it into the kitchen for 10 minutes after dog proofing it. You should have seen the thing trying to resist being brought back out to the garden. Was hilarious. So I just left it and walked out to the garden knowing the thing would get bored on its own and follow me out and sure 10 seconds later it was back in the back garden!!

It is now 1.30am and no sign of the dog owner. Unless he came home really early and webt to bed but probably not.

Here are a few pics I took earlier. The first 2 are of the dog on its own depressed waiting outside the door. The next 3 are the dog happy during and after I played with it. A completely different dog!!!!! Literally the first time I have ever seen it smile.

ISDW

Probably none of my business, but if you're in Australia, why are you asking for advice on an Irish forum? Sweeper lives in Australia, so can help you with legalities etc, but I wouldn't have thought many people here would be able to help you. Our laws, both animal welfare and tenant are totally different.

I would suggest you go onto that site that Sweeper has put up and you might have more luck.

Please don't take this as me being rude or uncaring, I just don't understand why you are on this particular forum

Best of luck.

**Vai**

I dont get why you're posting pics of the dog being "depressed". Surely u know in your heart that something needs to be done so get off the computer and do it.

Pisco Sour

**Vai** wrote: »

I dont get why you're posting pics of the dog being "depressed". Surely u know in your heart that something needs to be done so get off the computer and do it.

I put up the pictures of it being sad so that people could see the difference between it before and after I played with it (i.e. what the owner should be doing regularly, many times a day).

I am risking damage to my health so I can give the dog as much attention as I can, without completely taking over my own life. I have spent about 4 hours of the last 30 playing with the thing and have let it into the kitchen twice now and have given it some snacks and fresh water. I stayed up til 3am for the dog last night and got woken up by it outside my window going crazy at 7.50 am! There is very little else it seems I can do legally so I dont take kind to your condescending comments!

**Vai**

Ok then, just keep typing and whining about it.

The answer we've all given u in one way or another is, yes, its neglect. Do something. Otherwise dont bother posting on a forum about it.