Childbirth

trebor28

right so ladies,
a little bit of background first.
my brother has just had a kid with his OH.
and today my sister and i were talking about the mother of the child and how she wasnt been given any pain medication by the staff.
my sister was claiming that it was just that hospital and others would give out the medication no bother at all.

then i tried to bring up the point that how come women got so "damaged", (for the want of a better word), during child birth.
the reply i got was "men".

men were the reason that women had problems during childbirth and needed stitches etc.
i was half laughing, saying "men".
we had a big argument about this, i tried to stay cool about it but she was getting quite heated she even said "i'd hate to see the woman you will end up with!"

i cant remember everything that was said because it went on so long and it changed slightly off childbirth and more into general social issues, but she blamed men for women having hard time during childbirth.

(went into women not having the vote til recently, how the head of the hse is a man, i was trying to saying that it take two to tango etc.)

she was making out that men made the rules, and that because men dont have children they dont allow for what it is really like etc.

now i know the majority of western medicine was pioneered by men and therefore when it comes to childbirth that there would be issues with men not knowing what it is really like to have kids.
but surely in this day and age labour/maternity wards etc are been run by women so therefore things would have changed and it wouldnt be as hard on women during childbirth?

my sister was saying that down in cork there is a baby boom and that its run like a factory where women are given drugs to speed them up or slow them down to fit into a schedule.
now this may be the case but surely that isnt the fault of all men everywhere?

our minister for health is a woman after all, surely she can put some measure in place to ensure that women have a better time of it during childbirth??

anyway the original point i was trying to make is how come women suffer so much during childbirth nowadays?
i grew up on a farm so have seen lots of mammals been born without as much complications and most have young by themselves.

can we put it down to just the fact that humans have increased in size with advances in our medical knowledge etc?

surely humans would not have survived through all the years with all the complications if there was little or no medical knowledge in the past??

i am not claiming to know everything about childbirth just looking for some input.
not looking to offend anyone just want to have a discussion on this topic.

(hope the location is ok mods)

please dont kill me.

Silverfish

I fail to see how really bad biological design is the fault of men.

It's like it went

Design Team : "okay, so this is conception!"

Management: "that's great! Fantastic, we love it! Then what"

Design Team: "...then the female carries it for 9 months, and forces it out this small hole here"

Management "er.... then what?"

Design Team: "...Then we went for lunch, now we're here"

Management : "Okay well the project is overbudget, so we'll mark it completed. The females won't like it, but that's Marketing's problem"

Marketing: "..uuuummmm....."

trebor28

i have some theory's and questions to ask but i want to see a few more replies first.

Acoshla

But women routinely *did* die during childbirth for hundreds (thousands?) of years, before emergency C-sections were readily available they died if the baby got stuck in the birth canal, they died from massive bleeding, I'm sure infections were rife from the placenta not being delivered totally and other factors, babies died during birth for a plethora of reasons, if they were breech, all things that are greatly reduced these days.

Modern medicine has made massive improvements to the childbirth process, the majority of "suffering" that healthy women having a normal pregnancy experience is pain and tearing, caused primarily by the pelvis (baby moving between your bones, BETWEEN YOUR BONES!!), contractions and the general strange design of women. I heard a doctor speaking once on the radio and he said that the two worst designed parts of our bodies are our necks and women's reproductive organs/genitals (think of how easily women get UTI's because the urethra is so close to the other bits making germs travel up there pretty quick!) Isn't it that when we developed the ability to walk on two legs our pelvises had to change and became narrower, making childbirth more difficult.

Anyway, childbirth these days is a hell of a lot more advanced. Women are monitored, the baby's heartbeat is checked for signs of distress, they know so much and I'm pretty sure most midwives, doctors and nurses do as much as they can to help women have a good delivery.

coffee_cake

All I know is if I do it I'll be demanding all the drugs they have

ztoical

trebor28 wrote: »

anyway the original point i was trying to make is how come women suffer so much during childbirth nowadays?
i grew up on a farm so have seen lots of mammals been born without as much complications and most have young by themselves.

can we put it down to just the fact that humans have increased in size with advances in our medical knowledge etc?

Farm animals are well looked after even if they deliver on their own, their general health is usually much higher then for an animal living in the wild and you'll find there is still plenty of complications on farms.

As Spadina says women did routinely die in childbirth right up till very recently. It's something I think alot of people forget, alot like we get now with vaccines and people not understanding the massive impact they have had on our health. Maternal death rates were very high up until the 1900's - we're taking 40% in some places and thats just womens deaths not infant deaths. Look at current global maternal mortality rates and you find that only 1% now occur in the developed world.

trebor28 wrote: »

surely humans would not have survived through all the years with all the complications if there was little or no medical knowledge in the past??.

The most basic of medical knowledge such as washing your hands in hospitals wasn't established practice until quite recently. Human can and did survive but we didn't have the population sizes that we have today. Childbirth mortality, infant mortality, plauges like smallpox and general life stuff kept numbers low.

Wibbs

Big issue for modern humans are the size of our heads. Women's hips can't realistically get much wider and still be useful for walking upright, so it's a trade off. Human babies get around this by having soft heads at birth and by being born premature compared to other primates. A newborn human baby is pretty much still a foetus.

upinthesky

women are designed to have babies i think if there was no pain relief that they would cope i think it depends on the midwife some would be delighted to give you pain relief while others will not give it as quick

coffee_cake

lisar816 wrote: »

women are designed to have babies i think if there was no pain relief that they would cope i think it depends on the midwife some would be delighted to give you pain relief while others will not give it as quick

We're "designed" (by who) to die too, doesn't mean it's a good thing

Das Kitty

lisar816 wrote: »

women are designed to have babies i think if there was no pain relief that they would cope i think it depends on the midwife some would be delighted to give you pain relief while others will not give it as quick

It's totally up to the woman whether she has pain relief or not. The only restriction is if the anaesthetist is busy it can take a while or it could be too late in the game.

Yeah, women could cope without it, but why should they if they don't want to when the pain relief is available?

I don't see how the negative aspects of childbirth can be the fault of men.

BTW I recommend the Gas and Air, fantastic stuff.

Connie_c28

lol I used to have this conversation with my then OH all the time

Teenage years (usually)
Boys = lovely wet dream ok so they have a slight embarrassing stage with the aul voice
Girls = get periods and all that comes with it sore boobs, hormones etc

To have a baby
Boy= have sex, cum (so enjoyment) and then wait for the baby (ok I'll give you if they stick around they have to deal with the hormones :P
Girls= sex, hormones, sore boobs, expanding waist, stretch marks that never go away!

Birth

Boy= mine had nail marks on his arms - I think this pain should be shared (only joking it was actually an accident the contraction came unexpectedly)
Girl= give birth through a hole which is similar to squeezing a melon from your nostril.....ok an expanding nostril

Afterbirth= boy has (hopefully) joy of his child
Girl= has the joy of her child birth, maybe added with stitches and followed by embarrassing leakages and depending on if you breast feed or not cracked nipples :O to add to the stretch marks.

But in all honesty I wouldn’t swap the place of giving birth with the man. I think being pregnant and giving birth is the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced and although yes there are some horror stories about the actual labour some aren’t so bad but you never really hear about these.
Personally I suffered terrible with bad period pains in my teens and my labour wasn’t much worse. I had no pain relief or even gas and if I ever have another pregnancy I would hopefully be in a position to do the same.

I don’t blame boys for it because as someone said it takes two to tango so girls closing those legs if you want to stop the risk :P
I actually thank boys and at the minute (not literally as I type obviously) enjoy practising how to have the baby stage again and again
just so if I do ever want to partake in the giving birth bit again I never forget how to get there :P

upinthesky

Das Kitty wrote: »

It's totally up to the woman whether she has pain relief or not. The only restriction is if the anaesthetist is busy it can take a while or it could be too late in the game.

Yeah, women could cope without it, but why should they if they don't want to when the pain relief is available?

I don't see how the negative aspects of childbirth can be the fault of men.

BTW I recommend the Gas and Air, fantastic stuff.

oh i agree i have 3 children first by c section second had the epidural and third without anything the epidural was the best thing ever invented!

metrovelvet

Obstetrics is experimental medicine. Once you register in a maternity ward/hospital your body is not your own.

For centuries and still in parts of the world outside of the west, women can walk and be mobile while in labour, they can crouch, squat, hands and knees, whatever works for them. Louis XIV decided he wanted to see his baby when it was born. That is how the tradition of lying down horizontally came to be de rigeur. This standard position is for the benefit of the osbstetricians, traditionally male and not for the woman giving birth, and usually with a monitor strapped behind you. Now with litigation at an all time high so are cesarians. Obstetrics are yet another extention of the philosophy that women are not to be trusted with their bodies.

coffee_cake

metrovelvet wrote: »

Obstetrics is experimental medicine. Once you register in a maternity ward/hospital your body is not your own.

For centuries and still in parts of the world outside of the west, women can walk and be mobile while in labour, they can crouch, squat, hands and knees, whatever works for them. Louis XIV decided he wanted to see his baby when it was born. That is how the tradition of lying down horizontally came to be de rigeur. This standard position is for the benefit of the osbstetricians, traditionally male and not for the woman giving birth, and usually with a monitor strapped behind you. Now with litigation at an all time high so are cesarians. Obstetrics are yet another extention of the philosophy that women are not to be trusted with their bodies.

I heard that about him before - it's funny, I had always wondered why women in star trek did it standing up before I'd heard that ! made sense then!

trebor28

one thing i dont understand is that during labour the womans measurements are taken for dilation.

and it seems they always go at 10cm.

10cm is 4 inches (how big are your nostrils connie_c28?):D

anyway, how can they always just go with the birth when the women reaches 10 cm?
surely all babies are not the same size and therefore each birth should be taken on its own merits and not "oh shes at 10cm lets go!"

also im not exactly sure on how you would go about it, but surely some kind of stretching should be involved to get the womans body ready for whats about to happen.

metrovelvet

trebor28 wrote: »

one thing i dont understand is that during labour the womans measurements are taken for dilation.

and it seems they always go at 10cm.

10cm is 4 inches (how big are your nostrils connie_c28?):D

anyway, how can they always just go with the birth when the women reaches 10 cm?
surely all babies are not the same size and therefore each birth should be taken on its own merits and not "oh shes at 10cm lets go!"

also im not exactly sure on how you would go about it, but surely some kind of stretching should be involved to get the womans body ready for whats about to happen.

You can take pregnancy yoga to prepare you, using birthing balls, any number of things.

What I dont like about epidurals is that you cant feel anything from the waist down, its like half of you has disappeared and it's hard to control something that is no longer there.

kippy

Sorry, just weighing in here, due to a conversation that was had yesterday.

While all the developments in medicine and knowledge of what is best for baby and mum may have lead to better practices (C section, pain relief, less deaths at childbirth etc) they have also lead to generally bigger, healthier babies. Bigger being the main issue.
The babies are looked after better (Better might be the wrong word, but we know more about what is good for them now), they get more of the vitamins they need and as a result are born, usually, bigger.
This of course leads to other issues.

ztoical

trebor28 wrote: »

one thing i dont understand is that during labour the womans measurements are taken for dilation.

and it seems they always go at 10cm.

10cm is 4 inches (how big are your nostrils connie_c28?):D

anyway, how can they always just go with the birth when the women reaches 10 cm?
surely all babies are not the same size and therefore each birth should be taken on its own merits and not "oh shes at 10cm lets go!"

also im not exactly sure on how you would go about it, but surely some kind of stretching should be involved to get the womans body ready for whats about to happen.

When they say 10cm what they mean is she is fully dilated. It does not mean it's exactly 10cm but that the cervix has opended to it's widest point. That's normally around 10cm which is a decent enough space for an average size babies head and shoulders [if you look on youtube you can find some animated videos of a baby coming out from the womb and you can see it must go through a series of twists and movements in order to fit out]

Midwives/doctors don't just base it all on a women being fully dilated that's just something people have been use to from watching too much tv [like the obession with getting towels and hot water:rolleyes:] The use a system known as a Bishop Score that is a scoring system to judge what stage a woman is at and what if any issues may come up, the biggest one being the position of the baby. The baby actually has to do alot of work during childbirth, it needs to be sitting in the right start postion and then needs to move during the birth.

The reason humans have more issues during childbirth then other mamals is because we are bipedal [ie stand up right] and have the largest heads - one of those issues isn't so bad but both together is what results in some many issues in childbirth in humans. One of the downsides of having better health, better diet, and better living conditions is that we do end up having bigger babies.

Cheap Thrills!

trebor28 wrote: »

right so ladies,
a little bit of background first.
my brother has just had a kid with his OH.
and today my sister and i were talking about the mother of the child and how she wasnt been given any pain medication by the staff.
my sister was claiming that it was just that hospital and others would give out the medication no bother at all.

then i tried to bring up the point that how come women got so "damaged", (for the want of a better word), during child birth.
the reply i got was "men".

men were the reason that women had problems during childbirth and needed stitches etc.
i was half laughing, saying "men".
we had a big argument about this, i tried to stay cool about it but she was getting quite heated she even said "i'd hate to see the woman you will end up with!"

i cant remember everything that was said because it went on so long and it changed slightly off childbirth and more into general social issues, but she blamed men for women having hard time during childbirth.

(went into women not having the vote til recently, how the head of the hse is a man, i was trying to saying that it take two to tango etc.)

she was making out that men made the rules, and that because men dont have children they dont allow for what it is really like etc.

now i know the majority of western medicine was pioneered by men and therefore when it comes to childbirth that there would be issues with men not knowing what it is really like to have kids.
but surely in this day and age labour/maternity wards etc are been run by women so therefore things would have changed and it wouldnt be as hard on women during childbirth?

my sister was saying that down in cork there is a baby boom and that its run like a factory where women are given drugs to speed them up or slow them down to fit into a schedule.
now this may be the case but surely that isnt the fault of all men everywhere?

our minister for health is a woman after all, surely she can put some measure in place to ensure that women have a better time of it during childbirth??

anyway the original point i was trying to make is how come women suffer so much during childbirth nowadays?
i grew up on a farm so have seen lots of mammals been born without as much complications and most have young by themselves.

can we put it down to just the fact that humans have increased in size with advances in our medical knowledge etc?

surely humans would not have survived through all the years with all the complications if there was little or no medical knowledge in the past??

i am not claiming to know everything about childbirth just looking for some input.
not looking to offend anyone just want to have a discussion on this topic.

(hope the location is ok mods)

please dont kill me.

Your sis sounds as if she's gone a bit paranoid !! I don't think there is an organised conspiracy by 'men' to make childbirth or womens lives more difficult.

Feeona

Friends have told me that they were far more comfortable on their hands and knees when they were in labour, they could control the contractions far better in this position. Unfortunately they were turned unto their backs when the time came to give birth. At the time my friend jokingly said 'It's a man's world'.
Personally, I don't think men are the reason that women give birth in uncomfortable positions. Giving birth is tough for both men and women. There are many men who have to watch their wives/partners go through the pain of birth knowing full well that there's nothing they can do to stop the pain. Who likes watching their loved ones go through pain? There has to be another reason why giving birth can sometimes be a traumatic experience. I prefer to think that it's down to every woman's body being different, and the procedure they have in place now is a procedure that best suits most women.

Of course, my opinion could drastically change if I ever give birth :P

How Strange

Who 'turned' them into their backs? It's widely understood now that lying down during labour is not the optimal position and being upright is best so gravity can help. If you have an epidural then you'll normally labour and deliver on a bed.

The Sweeper

I work at a hospital. All our midwives are women. The obstetricians are men, but the midwives do most of the deliveries unless there are complications, and even then the obstetricians work with the midwives - an advantage of the maternity set up in a small hospital.

Our maternity patients can stand up, sit down, lie down, be on all fours, or give birth onto the floor while squatting at the end of the bed and hanging off the bedrail if they feel like it. Our midwives are up, down, round, sideways, with them when they're needed.

The disturbing thing for us is that many women still don't understand how birth works and here they are, giving birth.

One of the biggest issues is post-delivery bleeding. The blood loss after delivery is closely monitored and recorded in the notes. This is not blood from tearing or damage while the baby is on the way out. When you give birth, the placenta is attached to the wall of the uterus. When the baby emerges, the placenta tears away from the wall of the uterus and is also delivered because it's no longer required. The placenta separating from the wall of the uterus is what causes bleeding.

The number of women who don't understand that when they give birth is frightening. One of our patients got extremely upset with a midwife recently because she had a routine birth, minor tearing requiring a couple of stitches but no major dramas, and then went into a flat panic because she was bleeding and couldn't understand why because she thought the external wounds had all been dealt with.

pickarooney

The Sweeper wrote: »

The number of women who don't understand that when they give birth is frightening. One of our patients got extremely upset with a midwife recently because she had a routine birth, minor tearing requiring a couple of stitches but no major dramas, and then went into a flat panic because she was bleeding and couldn't understand why because she thought the external wounds had all been dealt with.

I think this ties in with previous comments about women being 'told' or 'ordered' to do things a certain way during delivery. An expectant parent really should have no excuse for not knowing what is going to happen before, during and after childbirth and should really have a solid idea of what decisions they will make when the time comes - hospital, home or water birth, with or without epidural, vaginal or c-section, bottle or breast...

Parenthood is a frightening sequence of life-altering decisions you have to take to give the best to your offspring and this begins long before the child draws its first breath. If you're not willing, as parents to make a firm decision about how you want your baby born and stick to it then you shouldn't go crying afterwards because you were 'forced' to do one thing or another afterwards. Granted, it's not the easiest thing in the world to stay calm and resolute on the big day but if you're not prepared to make the big decisions yourself, then the medical staff in attendance will have to do it for you.

metrovelvet

pickarooney wrote: »

I think this ties in with previous comments about women being 'told' or 'ordered' to do things a certain way during delivery. An expectant parent really should have no excuse for not knowing what is going to happen before, during and after childbirth and should really have a solid idea of what decisions they will make when the time comes - hospital, home or water birth, with or without epidural, vaginal or c-section, bottle or breast...

Parenthood is a frightening sequence of life-altering decisions you have to take to give the best to your offspring and this begins long before the child draws its first breath. If you're not willing, as parents to make a firm decision about how you want your baby born and stick to it then you shouldn't go crying afterwards because you were 'forced' to do one thing or another afterwards. Granted, it's not the easiest thing in the world to stay calm and resolute on the big day but if you're not prepared to make the big decisions yourself, then the medical staff in attendance will have to do it for you.

How can you know? There are so many variables and possibilities?

There are several NYC hospitals with BEAUTIFUL birthing rooms, jacuzzis in them, birthing pools, king sized beds for mom and dad and beautiful bassinettes and anything you could possibly want. And you know what? They hardly get used, because the first sign of any little thing that deviates from THEIR protocols of a normal birth and you are rushed downstairs into the normal labour ward.

They also only keep you half informed. When they suggest an induction, they dont tell you how tricky they are and how likely you will end up with a section, they just tell you 'if you don't do it the baby will choke and die on the mecunium' and pressure you and pressure you and pressure you and pressure you.

If you have been awake for 25 hours and are drugged and get sick or any number of possibilities, how clear headed are you going to be when you have three midwives and two surgeons staring at you telling you 'if you dont do this the baby will be x, the baby will be Y, you will be like _____________ for the rest of your life.'

seenitall

pickarooney wrote: »

I think this ties in with previous comments about women being 'told' or 'ordered' to do things a certain way during delivery. An expectant parent really should have no excuse for not knowing what is going to happen before, during and after childbirth and should really have a solid idea of what decisions they will make when the time comes - hospital, home or water birth, with or without epidural, vaginal or c-section, bottle or breast...

Parenthood is a frightening sequence of life-altering decisions you have to take to give the best to your offspring and this begins long before the child draws its first breath. If you're not willing, as parents to make a firm decision about how you want your baby born and stick to it then you shouldn't go crying afterwards because you were 'forced' to do one thing or another afterwards. Granted, it's not the easiest thing in the world to stay calm and resolute on the big day but if you're not prepared to make the big decisions yourself, then the medical staff in attendance will have to do it for you.

No. :mad: Sorry, but you really haven't a clue what you are talking about. Or you must have had an exceptionally good delivery experience where you were treated more as a human being in a vulnerable position and less as a number to be processed as quickly as possible, but tbh I can't really imagine that happening in a regular, public hospital setting.

I feel so foolish and naive now looking back on all my big, firm decisions on a birthing plan (I even remember talking to my gyn-ob in advance about the use of dummies, hilarious!), and going around with that sheet of paper (my birth plan) in my hand, when on the day it ended up being thrown out the second I came to the delivery ward.

The reality is that the moment you get there, you become nothing but a cog in a well-oiled machine that is geared toward getting you to squeeze that baby out in the least amount of time humanly possible and with the least hassle to anyone concerned possible. I told the midwife that I didn't want to be tied to the moniter all the time, I feel it is unnecessary. Talking to the wall might have been more productive. She said my water wasn't broken (although I was leaking like a faulty tap!), so she broke it for me (a very unpleasant experience). I wasn't dilating quickly enough for her liking; so it was on to the drip for me. Never mind what I want and that I wanted to have as natural a birth as possible, that doesn't even get a look in. She was a very exuberant and sunny person, yet if I voiced a preference, it would be quickly shot down by her medical opinion and authority. I would like to see you try to challenge a medical person in authority while under their care and in labour - I would greatly enjoy the experience.

The whole thing was a joke, but an unfunny joke. She was doing exactly what she wanted to do in order to get me to progress to her schedule, and before I knew it, I was all of a sudden experiencing labour that had gone from 2 to 7 on the Richter scale in 2 minutes flat. Well, of course I was pretty much beside myself by this point, the pain was now all of a sudden way to strong for me to be able to help it with the TENS machine, so I ended up begging for epidural. The epidural took away the pain but it of course slowed down the labour so that the baby went into distress (as often happens with epidural) and she had to be pulled out with forceps in the end.

Stick to a "firm decision" in a delivery ward? Fat chance. Instead, you quickly learn that you are to be stripped of your rights for making any decisions, by way of dangling "we know what's best, if you don't do it this way, you could be endangering your baby". Tell me, what remotely sane person wouldn't abdicate all their firm, resolute decisions and birthing plans in the face of the prospect of possible harm to their child? You, perhaps?

/rant over

pollypocket10

pickarooney wrote: »

I think this ties in with previous comments about women being 'told' or 'ordered' to do things a certain way during delivery. An expectant parent really should have no excuse for not knowing what is going to happen before, during and after childbirth and should really have a solid idea of what decisions they will make when the time comes - hospital, home or water birth, with or without epidural, vaginal or c-section, bottle or breast...

Parenthood is a frightening sequence of life-altering decisions you have to take to give the best to your offspring and this begins long before the child draws its first breath. If you're not willing, as parents to make a firm decision about how you want your baby born and stick to it then you shouldn't go crying afterwards because you were 'forced' to do one thing or another afterwards. Granted, it's not the easiest thing in the world to stay calm and resolute on the big day but if you're not prepared to make the big decisions yourself, then the medical staff in attendance will have to do it for you.

I am 33 weeks pregnant with my and have spent alot of the past 33 weeks reading books, forums, websites talking to obs and midwives as well as other mothers and I still have NO IDEA what to expect.

There are so many variables, many different situations that might arise and many options to take. Even among the experts there is disagreement about what is best to do in certain situations. I assume that the midwives and obs know better than me and have to trust what they tell me will be the outcome if we do this that or the other.

I work in healthcare and midwives have told me that they have certain protocalls & timelines they have to follow even though they are well aware that every pregnancy isn't the same and some should be allowed to progress naturally but in this modern time of regulation and litigation they have no option but to go by the book.

Childbirth is not something you can go into with firm decisions about how it should go.

A bit more on-topic though. OP I am guessing you are male and I think you should step back a little and not take it personally.

I get where your sister is coming from. Centuries of male dominance has led to a lot of things being they way they are. It's not to say that all men are to blame and there have been huge advances in recent times and society is obviously making progress with redressing the imbalance.

In addition to the influence of men hostorically I think there are a lot of factors that make childbirth hard including biological reasons and also the fact that medicine has failed to make advances in this area as very few pregnant women will risk being guinea pigs for experimental techniques and drugs.

pickarooney

The first step in any birthing plan should be for the parents to decide where the baby will be born and to visit that place and find out exactly what happens there, what freedom you're given and what the consequences of the decisions you make really will be. You need to ask the right questions of the right people beforehand and not complain afterwards that you weren't told.

metrovelvet

pickarooney wrote: »

The first step in any birthing plan should be for the parents to decide where the baby will be born and to visit that place and find out exactly what happens there, what freedom you're given and what the consequences of the decisions you make really will be. You need to ask the right questions of the right people beforehand and not complain afterwards that you weren't told.

You cant do that when what you are dealing with is experimental medicine. Because the experts dont know either. You dont even know if you will have the same OB because s/he might be on holiday. You dont even know if you will make it to the hospital. FFS.

Ickle Magoo

pickarooney wrote: »

The first step in any birthing plan should be for the parents to decide where the baby will be born and to visit that place and find out exactly what happens there, what freedom you're given and what the consequences of the decisions you make really will be. You need to ask the right questions of the right people beforehand and not complain afterwards that you weren't told.

My wee man arrived early and before we'd done any plans for anything - never mind canvassed the entire, obs, delivery, anaesthetic and surgical team to make sure all the right people were asked the right questions....in reality births can and often do go completely awry and with the best will in the world, birthing plans go out the window.

For my second child I spent 6wks fighting pressure to have a section - six weeks! Weeks of being told my uterus could tear, my child could end up brain damaged, why was I bothering to pay for my obs professional opinion just to ignore it, yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm not sure where you had your birthing experience but it doesn't sound like the same planet as mine!

seenitall

pickarooney wrote: »

The first step in any birthing plan should be for the parents to decide where the baby will be born and to visit that place and find out exactly what happens there, what freedom you're given and what the consequences of the decisions you make really will be. You need to ask the right questions of the right people beforehand and not complain afterwards that you weren't told.

But I wasn't told! I wasn't told that, although I had been encouraged to write out a detailed birthing plan in my ante-natal classes in that same hospital, my birthing plan would be as far as the mid-wife tending to me was concerned not worth the paper it was written on. Thus I feel the expectant mothers are falsely led to believe that their wishes will be respected, as all the questions you could presumably be talking about are answered in great detail in the ante-natal classes, you are even led on a tour through the labour ward etc. They are led to believe that the labour itself will also be such an open-communication, co-operative, respectful experience, when nothing could in reality be further from the truth.

My complaint is not that I "wasn't told"; it is that I was duped. But what is the good of complaining anyway, when this happens in all the public hospitals in Ireland on a daily basis to hundreds of women. I am certainly no exception with my experience, it is just that attitudes like yours rile me right up; like it was my fault that I had an unpleasant and undignified birthing experince. Because it wasn't. I was, like many other women, doing anything I could to have a degree of control over my experience; but it was never enough because I was deceived into believing I would have choices, when in actuality I wasn't allowed them when it came to the crunch.

metrovelvet

Birthing plans are as fictional as the Dublin Bus timetable. I dont know why they even bother telling you to do one.

You dont have any choice once you are in there. [Saying that a woman I know was allowed to take breaks off the feotal heart monitor for cigarette breaks!]

They don't tell you at all how interventionist it is. They dont tell you anything and if they do its with ambigious non commital answers.