Why does our health service suck so much ass?

MagicMarker

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Can someone explain this to me? Why in 9.5 hours not a single doctor has a spare 10 minutes of his/her time to see a patient to ask a few basic questions? How overstretched is our health service that this is not possible?

It's absolutely sickening tbh.

Mint Sauce

Its a two teir system, far to many managers and pen pushers and not enough front line staff, what front line staff there is are stretched to the limit, and what money there was was being spent on free holidays supposed fact finding missions.

And now, people are suffering becuase of it.

Sorry for you and your mother MagicMarker, hopefully she is seen to soon.

Rodin

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Can someone explain this to me? Why in 9.5 hours not a single doctor has a spare 10 minutes of his/her time to see a patient to ask a few basic questions? How overstretched is our health service that this is not possible?

It's absolutely sickening tbh.

I'm not trying to be smart, but they're probably busy with other patients.
And everyone knows the service is understaffed

ilovesleep

Mary harney is a drunk. theres your answer

Kiera

Sucking ass is one fetish i'd never be into. Yuk!

krudler

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Can someone explain this to me? Why in 9.5 hours not a single doctor has a spare 10 minutes of his/her time to see a patient to ask a few basic questions? How overstretched is our health service that this is not possible?

It's absolutely sickening tbh.

No such thing for a lot of doctors working in A&E wards, they're battling an inept management system and people who go to hospital for something a GP could solve.

(not saying you mother was in the same boat, hope shes alright)

scientific1982

Complicated.

Earthhorse

It's too complicated a problem for people to solve I think, which is why it won't be for a long time. Sorry to hear about your mother but it's not an unusual experience by all accounts.

Rodin

Earthhorse wrote: »

It's too complicated a problem for people to solve I think, which is why it won't be for a long time. Sorry to hear about your mother but it's not an unusual experience by all accounts.

Unfortunately not.
Though there is a triage system
Though is susprising in that she was there early in the morning.
Had she arrived mid morning or early afternoon, then it'd be less surprising

mikom

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Ninja doctors........ the worst kind.

orourkeda

It's inefficient and poorly run

prinz

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor. Can someone explain this to me? Why in 9.5 hours not a single doctor has a spare 10 minutes of his/her time to see a patient to ask a few basic questions? How overstretched is our health service that this is not possible? It's absolutely sickening tbh.

Had the same thing last summer with my OH. As irish-stew said there are far too many pen-pushers and administrators etc and not enough real staff on the floor.

What doctors are there are often being run off their feet (especially in A&E) and are snowed under by inefficient processes, red tape and bureaucracy, add in the constant flow of drunk/drug addled muppets and you get the drift.

orourkeda

Kiera wrote: »

Sucking ass is one fetish i'd never be into. Yuk!

A bit of aul ATM wouldn't take your fancy?

kelle

Has she been in A+E or on the ward all this time, MagicMarker?

It's awful you've been this long without seeing a doctor, I assume you're in a large hospital with frontline services stretched to the limit. Patients would never be waiting that long in the small hospital I work in, yet the HSE are trying to close it! It seems they prefer a situation like yours rather than efficiency.

Has she had any bloods taken or investigations of any kind?

I'm sorry to read about your predicament, I hope you will be seen soon and that your mother will be OK.

orourkeda

prinz wrote: »

Had the same thing last summer with my OH. As irish-stew said there are far too many pen-pushers and administrators etc and not enough real staff on the floor.

What doctors are there are often being run off their feet (especially in A&E) and are snowed under by inefficient processes, red tape and bureaucracy, add in the constant flow of drunk/drug addled muppets and you get the drift.

To say that conditions are less than perfect is un understatement alright.

orourkeda

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Can someone explain this to me? Why in 9.5 hours not a single doctor has a spare 10 minutes of his/her time to see a patient to ask a few basic questions? How overstretched is our health service that this is not possible?

It's absolutely sickening tbh.

An all too frequent occurence by all accounts? Which hospital is it?

hal9000

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why does our health service suck so much ass?

too many proctologists

Not enough doctors, specifically NCHDs. The HSE are driving them away from these shores by making the working conditions worse and worse. In fact they just unilaterally cut NCHD annual leave by 2 weeks.

It's looking increasingly likely that I will be heading to a country with more humane working conditions for doctors when I graduate.

Kiera

orourkeda wrote: »

A bit of aul ATM wouldn't take your fancy?

Wut? I've no idea what that is?

Badgermonkey

We don't pay enough tax to provide a decent system.

Even if we did, I fear it would be inferior to Dutch, German and French models due to our shoddy approach to public services.

jimmmy

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Can someone explain this to me? Why in 9.5 hours not a single doctor has a spare 10 minutes of his/her time to see a patient to ask a few basic questions? How overstretched is our health service that this is not possible?

It's absolutely sickening tbh.

Think how much better our health system would be if nurses and consultants were paid only the same money as they are in N. Ireland / Britain, and the extra money our government saved was used to employ more nurses / consultants.

sam34

lots of hospitals are under-staffed from a medical point of view, particularly since the new year. its down to a variety of reasons, including changes made to training and conditions, as well as visa regulations for overseas docs.

it's utter crap. management in the hse make decisions and vulnerable patients suffer

Dotsie~tmp

suck so much ass

<shoots self>

FlutterinBantam

It's very simple really.

You see, most people in the HSE are good honest workers who do their best in difficult circumstances.

The problem is that each vested interest is looking after their own and over the years have got so far up their own holes that they can't adapt.

They, despite having well paid well sinecured jobs, have got locked in by the Unions into pay scales and work practices which simply put, don't work.

There is no flexibility within the system as each cohort strives to retain it's place in the pecking order.

Historical issues also come in to play, as well as people like Doran who wind out the same rhetoric time after time.

Well he would wouldn't he, his union profit by more workers and he depends on John Q taxpayer to featherbed the well paid well pensioned denizens of the HSE, and of course he hopes that events like this will divert the public opinion from the real issue.


The fcukers cost too much, they are not value for money, the HSE is a black hole which absorbs John Qs tax eurons with an eager maw which would put a Beluga whale to shame.

There's your reason.

orourkeda

Kiera wrote: »

Wut? I've no idea what that is?

arse to mouth

Wibbs

Sorry to hear about your mum MM. Hope things go well for you and soon.

Kiera

orourkeda wrote: »

arse to mouth

Oh. No thank you.

Slig

I have to agree about the 2 tier system. I know several nurses and they are all worked off their feet on a daily basis. Administration, however is a different thing
Someone I know works on telesales for a drugs wholesaler and takes the drug orders from the large hospitals. Before christmas she got a call from a department head in a major hospital complaining about a late delivery of urgent drugs for a patient.
While investigating the problem she asked when the order was placed so that she could check her e-mail to find out what the problem was. She was told that the order wasnt e-mailed in as the HSE employee had no e-mail account. She then asked if the order was faxed in and was told that they didnt know how to use their fax machine so they posted it instead.
It transpired that the order for these URGENT drugs had been put in the post on a Thursday evening when the HSE employee had been going home from work and hadnt been recieved by the wholesaler until the following monday morning. I'm told this isnt an isolated incident.

ToxicPaddy

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

It's very simple really.

You see, most people in the HSE are good honest workers who do their best in difficult circumstances.

The problem is that each vested interest is looking after their own and over the years have got so far up their own holes that they can't adapt.

They, despite having well paid well sinecured jobs, have got locked in by the Unions into pay scales and work practices which simply put, don't work.

There is no flexibility within the system as each cohort strives to retain it's place in the pecking order.

Historical issues also come in to play, as well as people like Doran who wind out the same rhetoric time after time.

Well he would wouldn't he, his union profit by more workers and he depends on John Q taxpayer to featherbed the well paid well pensioned denizens of the HSE, and of course he hopes that events like this will divert the public opinion from the real issue.


The fcukers cost too much, they are not value for money, the HSE is a black hole which absorbs John Qs tax eurons with an eager maw which would put a Beluga whale to shame.

There's your reason.

Think you hit the nail on the head there FB..

A friend of mine started with the HSE back when there were still Regional health boards.. she started in an admin position, her first full time job and couldnt believe the attitude of so many of the staff, most there years and wouldnt get off their fat asses to do any work..

The younger staff member all chucked in and helped each other while the older ones, did their small and I mean small piece of work and the headed out for a smoke or off to the canteen for a coffee as their work was done.. so as far as they were concerned nothing more needed to be done, despite the dept being swamped with work..

Despite the older ones never stopped complaining about working conditions, pay levels and bonus levels.. :mad:

She reckons if people pulled their weight 10 people could have easily coped but because the more established members of staff didnt the number of staff was closer to 20 doing the same job.. They were also the ones who were constantly calling in sick especially near the end of the year when they were running low on holidays.. :rolleyes:

The attitude never changed for the 2 years she was there and thanked her lucky stars when they moved her to a different area which was a new section in the hospital and all the staff there were new and keen to make an impression so the productivity was much much better..

cassid

Took my mother to VHI clinic, said she had to go to A & E, spent 7 hours waiting and then got admitted and was giving a chair to spend the night on:mad:. She was told she was lucky by a nurse that she had a chair, something is wrong when somebody is lucky to have a chair for 2 days while waiting to be admitted.

FlutterinBantam

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Think you hit the nail on the head there FB..

A friend of mine started with the HSE back when there were still Regional health boards.. she started in an admin position, her first full time job and couldnt believe the attitude of so many of the staff, most there years and wouldnt get off their fat asses to do any work..

The younger staff member all chucked in and helped each other while the older ones, did their small and I mean small piece of work and the headed out for a smoke or off to the canteen for a coffee as their work was done.. so as far as they were concerned nothing more needed to be done, despite the dept being swamped with work..

Despite the older ones never stopped complaining about working conditions, pay levels and bonus levels.. :mad:

She reckons if people pulled their weight 10 people could have easily coped but because the more established members of staff didnt the number of staff was closer to 20 doing the same job.. They were also the ones who were constantly calling in sick especially near the end of the year when they were running low on holidays.. :rolleyes:

The attitude never changed for the 2 years she was there and thanked her lucky stars when they moved her to a different area which was a new section in the hospital and all the staff there were new and keen to make an impression so the productivity was much much better..

Yep, you got it right there, thats the way they roll.

You see, unfortunately people who need these services never think of it like that.

They blame management( who are not without fault either)without thinking of the real issues.

Service costs money, 24/365 service costs a lot of money, a fookin shed load of money.

What has happened here is that the whole system is dysfunctional as each vested interest wants to protect it's own terms and conditions.

Irish rates are way above what most other countries pay, and we need to unravel all this shite, get value for money, bang for your buck, tackle absenteeism and tailor the system to fit the taxes paid and the services provided.


it's that simple.:eek:

Rodin

cassid wrote: »

Took my mother to VHI clinic, said she had to go to A & E, spent 7 hours waiting and then got admitted and was giving a chair to spend the night on:mad:. She was told she was lucky by a nurse that she had a chair, something is wrong when somebody is lucky to have a chair for 2 days while waiting to be admitted.

It's heart-breaking to see

Bottle_of_Smoke

Have to remember we're not paying for it. Germany/netherlands you gotta pay minimum 100-1[20 per month for mandatory health insurance

Most I ever spent on doctors was around 400 in one year. Otherwise maybe 50-200 but some years nothing. For the vast majority of people the irish system is preferable

ejmaztec

Kiera wrote: »

Oh. No thank you.

It'd make a real mess of your Laser card:o

Will

irish-stew wrote: »

Its a two teir system, far to many managers and pen pushers and not enough front line staff, what front line staff there is are stretched to the limit, and what money there was was being spent on free holidays supposed fact finding missions.

And now, people are suffering becuase of it.

Sorry for you and your mother MagicMarker, hopefully she is seen to soon.

Irish-Stew hit the nail on the head. Too many people doing made up jobs with no one to over see them and the quality of their 'work'.

HSE in general can be summed up by the following;

Way too many managers
Way too many people doing nothing, doing made up jobs
Way too much nepotism
Hierarchy within organisations is fooked beyond belief

Not enough frontline staff. We are turning out world class nurses every year and they have no choice but to go abroad and work.

Iwannahurl

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Can someone explain this to me? Why in 9.5 hours not a single doctor has a spare 10 minutes of his/her time to see a patient to ask a few basic questions? How overstretched is our health service that this is not possible?

It's absolutely sickening tbh.

Commiserations. I've been there.

Not wishing to make your situation seem worse, but going in to A&E on a Friday is not a good idea (I'm being cynical here).

If you're unlucky, weekends can be dire. You may have a load of booze-related cases in, and the staff levels are much reduced. Come Monday morning, though, the shiny docs in shiny suits will be visible again.

drkpower

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor. It's absolutely sickening tbh.

A/E uses mix of triage and a first come-first served cab-ranking system. There is a technical grading on triage (see manchester triage) but this is the way i used to always remember it:
1. pretty much dead;
2. almost dead;
3. potentially seriously ill;
4. probably ok;
5. waster

Most patients are 3s; unless things are seriously fcukin' ridiculously busy, a 3 is very unlikely to be waiting 9+ hours (put it this way, i dont ever rememebr a patient waiting for > 6 hours in a about 9 months of working in a major A/E)- so it sounds like your mother has been triaged as a 4, which in the vast majority of cases is something that can be dealt with by a GP. If there is any chance your GP could see her, go to him; if he has already sent you in, God help you, that is fcukin awful.

You could always tell the triage nurse that she now has chest tightness and shortness of breath......

Biggins

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Can someone explain this to me? Why in 9.5 hours not a single doctor has a spare 10 minutes of his/her time to see a patient to ask a few basic questions?

Been there, done that with my daughter.
Then they asked me (after hours of waiting and THEY arranged for a her to see a MRI bone specialist, an early 6.00am journey start by trains, buses and a 4 year wait - they lost her application for her to see the specialist twice) "Well, what can we do for you today?"
We were like "What? We are here to see the MRI specialist as per request"
The reply? "O' well I'm only an intern and I know nothing about why your here, I was just told to see you!"
He then went looking for our daughters chart, though he found it and started writing in it.
"...And how long has your daughter suffered for the fits?"
"What fits?" says us!
...Turns out looking at her chart folder, he was reading from someone else's and filling in my daughters detail on someone elses!
"So when do we get to see the specialist?" We asked through our anger.
"Not possible." was the reply. "he was never scheduled to be here!"
So for hours of waiting outside, four years of waiting to see the specialist, seeing a doc who knew nothing, wrong charts and a five minute chat with him, we were sent home!

...But not before they told us "we will submit am application for you to see him again!
(Again! One time would be nice!)

We still haven't seen the MRI specialist!

One crazy incident amid many.

Vorsprung

Not enough doctors.

I work in an Emergency in Australia. There are 13.5 WTE consultants in the dept. There are 5 consultants in total on the floor during the day (staggered).

In Ireland, there are about 60 ED consultants. That's for the country.

If the HSE wants people seen, hire more staff. Don't drive people out of the country. I would suggest the following:

- pay doctors money for the time they work. This is most cases does not happen.

- when your doctors work 70+ hours in many (likely most) cases, and where 36-48 hour shifts are common (friend of mine recently worked 72 hours straight), don't suddenly cut their holiday entitlements by 2 weeks per year. And if you're rosterinf them for 72 hours, pay them for 72 hours, not just some other lesser random number.

- if you have doctors who are supposed to be training, and for which they MUST pay 2000-3000 euro per year for the pleasure, TRAIN them! All mates at home are telling me that no training is provided, and instead of the apparent senior doctor support that is apparently available at 3am when someone gets properly sick, there is none. Why? Because the ****ing HSE don't bother to arrange that cover

- if you're in an Obstetric hospital, training junior doctors to use an ultrasound machine, for instance. Why? Because you're asking that junior doctor to see pregnant women, scan them and interpret the results. Without training!!! Without having even used a scanning machine before! The HSE will tell you that there is a more senior doctor in house at the same time. What they won't tell you is that that senior doctor is invariably in emergency theatre for the whole night! This happens in a large obstetric hospital in Dublin, and certainly in others.

+++ many more rants, but too numerous to share

Nolanger

MagicMarker wrote: »

My mother had to go to hospital this morning at around 7.30, it's now after 5pm and she still hasn't seen a doctor.

Can someone explain this to me?

The brightest people in the hospital (the doctors) don't actually run the hospital.

aDeener

orourkeda wrote: »

It's inefficient and poorly run

well spotted

Biggins

Nolanger wrote: »

The brightest people in the hospital (the doctors) don't actually run the hospital.

Depressingly true.

LambsEye

Sorry to hear about your Mam OP.

I have to chime in here, I'm living in America and even though my job provides healthcare coverage I am praying that I don't get seriously sick. For those unfortunate people who get cancer or have recurring medical problems the bills are astronomical, even with insurance.

I've noticed a massive difference between the attitude to hospitals there and in Ireland. People in America just can't go to hospital, that's why a lot of people self-medicate and the drug companies have such a stranglehold on the population.

A friend of mine is bi-polar and her medication is $300/month. She doesn't have insurance. SO basically her choice is to find a way to pay these outrageous costs or allow her mental health to suffer. Luckily her parents pay. But seriously!

I recognise that the Irish Medical Service is poorly managed and doctors and nurses are stretched to capacity but it's still better than what we have here in the good old U. S. of A.

This is no way an excuse for the shocking treatment of your mother, or of Biggins' daughter. Just adding my 2c!

Nolanger

The solution is a Communist government!

sollar

The major problem in the irish system is that we have way to few consultants. The consultants we do have are paid far too much and are treated like gods. We need more of them and paid less.

Also, we need to have a system where the money follows the patient. The current system is that a hospital gets a set budget each year and must stay within it. This leads to a terrible situation where the less people they see the better for them.

The public system in this country is dangerously slow, getting to see a consultant can take so long that many people are seen too late.

I hope people put enormous pressure on the politicians in the run up to the next electuion to massively improve access to the public system.

Son Of A Vidic

irish-stew wrote: »

Its a two teir system, far to many managers and pen pushers and not enough front line staff, what front line staff there is are stretched to the limit, and what money there was was being spent on free holidays supposed fact finding missions.

And now, people are suffering becuase of it.

Sorry for you and your mother MagicMarker, hopefully she is seen to soon.

Well said there, I've seen it and worked in it unfortunately. The UK is currently grabbing up all the highly qualified young Irish trained nurses for the NHS. Meanwhile the useless 'clipboard carriers' continue their dominance and mismanagement of the system.

I remember reading an internal HSE news letter a couple of years ago, announcing the appointment of a new PR Manager for a hospital in Kerry. What da fcuk does a hospital need a PR Manager for? It's a hopsital ffs!!! This is the kind of ineptitude that has put the system were it is right now.

I can guarantee you that our indispensable Medic's and Nurses will continue to get the 'boot' While that useless overpaid PR pr1ck remains in post down in Kerry.

FlutterinBantam

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Well said there, I've seen it and worked in it unfortunately. The UK is currently grabbing up all the highly qualified young Irish trained nurses for the NHS. Meanwhile the useless 'clipboard carriers' continue their dominance and mismanagement of the system.

I remember reading an internal HSE news letter a couple of years ago, announcing the appointment of a new PR Manager for a hospital in Kerry. What da fcuk does a hospital need a PR Manager for? It's a hopsital ffs!!! This is the kind of ineptitude that has put the system were it is right now.

I can guarantee you that our indispensable Medic's and Nurses will continue to get the 'boot' While that useless overpaid PR pr1ck remains in post down in Kerry.

What exactly do you mean by 'the boot' , our doctors and nurses are amongst the best paid in the world.?

Nolanger

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

What da fcuk does a hospital need a PR Manager for? It's a hopsital ffs!!!

Some people go to an Irish hospital for treatment and the hospital actually makes them worse!

Mint Sauce

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by 'the boot' , our doctors and nurses are amongst the best paid in the world.?

They may be amongst the best paid in the world, but there could be more of them if it wasn't for the amount of money being wasted on things that are not needed.

Its the temporary front line staff, not protected by contracts that are getting the boot as the local departments cant afford to pay them.

FlutterinBantam

irish-stew wrote: »

They may be amongst the best paid in the world, but there could be more of them if it wasn't for the amount of money being wasted on things that are not needed.

Its the temporary front line staff, not protected by contracts that are getting the boot as the local departments cant afford to pay them.

If 'the best paid in the world' were realistic and

a: were paid realistic wages commensurate with out revenue intake.

b: gave more bang for their buck

c: tackled absenteeism and restrictive practices.

maybe we could afford to pay more.


When will the public realise that you can have 5 staff at say €100k pa or 2 at €250k pa.

Go figure man.

Frisbee

I work in one of the big Dublin Hospitals in administration and calling the health service inefficient is the biggest understatement in the world. From the top down the whole thing is a fúcking joke.

Too many insanely overpaid consultants who are only actually in the hopsital an hour or two a week when their yearly wage could employ another 5-6 nurses which are badly needed.

Too many pen pushers as has been rightly pointed out. Many of them working in the health service for years and can't be fired even if management tried to because they're all so insanely unionised.

The free holidays thing isn't some big rumour either. It does happen, not abroad really, but from this hospital there is regularly groups of consultants sent to the likes of Carton House/Mount Juliet etc on weekends away completely free of charge.