New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

UnitedIrishman

With regards Finley, I think any team would be nuts to pick him up and I'm not sure the Pats will be interested. One of the GB writers was saying his visit was purely for a medical evaluation of his spinal fusion surgery.

Was potentially one of the best receriving TE's in the NFL (had improved quite a bit leading up to his injury on some issues) but far far far too much of a risk right now, even for us and we have a real lack of depth at TE.

JaMarcusHustle

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Personally I think Brady has had that deer in the headlights look since the first Giants Superbowl loss.

Explain the unanimous MVP season in 2010 then.

Fr Tod Umptious

eagle eye wrote: »

Personally I think you haven't a clue what you are talking about. And while I'm a Patriots fan I'm one of the first guys to ask questions about players if they are in any way warranted.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Dude, you shouldn't waste your time replying to that nonsense. The guy has never posted before in this thread and the latter part of the post, seems to sum up the level of football 'knowledge' we are talking about here.

Calm down folks

I am a regular listener to WEEI, yesterday morning they mentioned Monson's piece on Brady and I though to myself 'this will be fun' seeing as the callers to WEEI are usually the biggest 'homers' in the world.
It was then when they had him on that I relaised he was Irish and I just posted the link to the interview here in case people were interested.

Oh and please don't question my football knowledge, just because I don't post here does not mean I am not knowledgeable about the game.

Son Of A Vidic

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Oh and please don't question my football knowledge, just because I don't post here does not mean I am not knowledgeable about the game.

Knowledge? Well judging by your Brady comments, one could be forgiven for not rating it very highly.

Son Of A Vidic

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

With regards Finley, I think any team would be nuts to pick him up and I'm not sure the Pats will be interested. One of the GB writers was saying his visit was purely for a medical evaluation of his spinal fusion surgery.

Was potentially one of the best receriving TE's in the NFL (had improved quite a bit leading up to his injury on some issues) but far far far too much of a risk right now, even for us and we have a real lack of depth at TE.

Were both in the same boat when it comes to TE depth and the options out there really aren't that great.

TO.

BizzyC wrote: »

Funny seeing all the hate Sam is getting over that article.
It's worth taking a look at his twitter, his responses to the hate tweets are pretty good.

I like the analysis the PFF guys do, it's hard to argue against their stats.

Over the last couple of seasons Brady hasn't been a top 5 QB according to the numbers. That's not to say he isn't still a top 5 talent, he's just wasn't producing for a number of reasons.

I'm sure if you were to isolate the latter end of the season his stats would be much better, but looking at it objectively I'd have to agree.
I'm hopeful this year will see him back to the top of the pile.

I read Sam's article and I don't see what the fuss is all about. Well written article and he gives extremely good points to back up his article. Like all his articles they are generally very good. I don't always agree with them but no need to be hating on the guy. His twitter responses are class.

To me personally Brady will always be Top 5 both performance every season and of course of all time. But then again I am a Pats fan and love the man.

BizzyC

TO. wrote: »

To me personally Brady will always be Top 5 both performance every season and of course of all time. But then again I am a Pats fan and love the man.

Ditto, I don't think I'll ever think of him as in the Luck/Wilson range like Sam has suggested, but at the same time I can accept that his recent stats land in that bracket.

I have every expectation that he'll jump back up to the top though, cause that's where he belongs.

Utopia Parkway

Brady like any QB is better with good weapons around him and has had a pretty remarkable career considering he's never had the consistent quality of receivers to throw to that Manning has had. Or even Brees.

Apart from the few Moss/Welker seasons and the brief couple of Welker/Gronk/Hernandez seasons he's spent his whole career throwing to a rotating cast of journeymen/rookies. And of course when he had those great weapons he put up crazy insane numbers with them. Expecting him to put up similiar numbers with Aaron Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins and Michael Hoomanawanui is asking for a little too much I think. Edelman was good but is basically a diet version of Wes Welker and Amendola was injured or trying to come back from injury all season. His current cast of receivers amounts a few late round draft picks and various players who were undrafted free agents.

I think the numbers show that his main problem last season was when throwing to the rookies during the first half of the season which probably shows there was some serious miscommunication going on between him and the younger receivers. His numbers were vastly superior when throwing to the more experienced players.

Son Of A Vidic

I don't think anyone in here has expressed hate towards this Sam person. I myself have never heard of him and I have yet to read the article in question. But when I do, I'll share my thoughts on it.

eagle eye

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Calm down folks

I am a regular listener to WEEI, yesterday morning they mentioned Monson's piece on Brady and I though to myself 'this will be fun' seeing as the callers to WEEI are usually the biggest 'homers' in the world.
It was then when they had him on that I relaised he was Irish and I just posted the link to the interview here in case people were interested.

I don't believe you are a regular WEEI listener. You spend a lot of time talking about Gah and soccer and Irish politics so I just find it impossible to believe you.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Oh and please don't question my football knowledge, just because I don't post here does not mean I am not knowledgeable about the game.

I'll question it when you make 'deer in the headlights' comments. I really believe you haven't a clue about the sport. You may have watched a few games but just like every other forum you go to, you want everybody to believe you are have huge knowledge and that what you say is fact.

Do us a favour and start again with a humble attitude and we can all get along.

BizzyC

Outside of this Brady article, I'd recommend taking a look at the PFF website.

Basically they'll grade a player on what they're asked to do, not just their stats.
eg. linebacker 1 has 8 sacks, linebacker 2 has 15 sacks so people assume LB2 has the better pass rush, but on analysis LB1 only rushed 20 times but LB2 rushed 60 times which means LB1 is more effective but is used differently by his team.

They build databases of play by play information on every player which enables them to provide situational or skill-based gradings for players.

Fr Tod Umptious

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't believe you are a regular WEEI listener. You spend a lot of time talking about Gah and soccer and Irish politics so I just find it impossible to believe you.

I'll question it when you make 'deer in the headlights' comments. I really believe you haven't a clue about the sport. You may have watched a few games but just like every other forum you go to, you want everybody to believe you are have huge knowledge and that what you say is fact.

Do us a favour and start again with a humble attitude and we can all get along.

Wow, tough crowd
I'm not going to sit here and try and convince someone on the other end of the internet that I am an regular listener to EEI, I know I am , if you don't believe me give me a quiz on it or something.
But I will say that being able to listen to WEEI from 11am each workday saves me from the likes of Ray Darcy, Ryan Tubidry, Pat Kenny and Joe Duffy, I really don't know what i would without it.

As for my football knowledge, again I'll not waste my time trying to convince you how much NFL I’ve watched over the past 20 years, I know I watch it and I know I enjoy it.

And I stand by the 'deer in the headlights' comment.
From my observations Brady has not been the same since that Superbowl, he has often looked like he cannot figure out how to get over defenses like he used to.
Interesting article here from the Boston Globe detailing how his 4th quarter heroics have dried up in the last few seasons
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/01/25/where-has-tom-brady-comeback-magic-gone/mHJWhTKMwacm11a4GlOmqI/story.html

I also take issue with your assertion that I did not come here with a 'humble attitude', all I did was post a link to an WEEI discussion with Monson, thinking that people may be interested in it, it was you and another posters who then attacked me for my 'deer in the headlights' line.

You remind me of Fred Smerlas or Pete Sheppard, and a lot of other New England fans , one can't question Brady without their integrity being attacked
.
Actually I'll give you a WEEI quiz, for a laugh, I won’t take it to heart if you don't answer

1. Prior to the early '00s Boston Globe ban on their writers on WEEI, what extra circular activity did Dan Shaughnessy often do while co-hosting 'The Big Show'
2. One of my favorite whines on the 'whiner line' was 'Hey Butchie, how's the rest in peace thing you got going on ?', what was the context of that whine ?
3. Who do you call when your windshield’s busted ?


Oh and what is 'Gah' by the way ? (not part of the quiz)

j8wk2feszrnpao

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And I stand by the 'deer in the headlights' comment.
From my observations Brady has not been the same since that Superbowl, he has often looked like he cannot figure out how to get over defenses like he used to.

But we haven't had a team as good as that team in 2007.
The defense has been awful to look at for a number of seasons (but things look promising for 2014).
And apart from a short look at a Gronk/Hernandez/Welker combination, which led to a SB appearance, the Pats haven't been surrounding Tom with many top receivers.
A healthy Gronk in 2010 and 2011 (our one true elite receiver), and I believe that Tom has two more rings.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Interesting article here from the Boston Globe detailing how his 4th quarter heroics have dried up in the last few seasons.

Unicorns and show ponies!!
And that even if Tom led the league in 4th quarter comebacks, so what? It's a nothing record. There's 3 other quarters when the job has to be done as well.
I much prefer that the QB was doing his job for the entire 4 quarters and leading us to a 12:4 record despite the lack of quality to throw to and an OL that leaks 40 sacks.



The problem I have with the Monson article is that he doesn't really take into account the receiving corp, and the poor protection that Brady has in 2013. He does mention it; but seems to put more faith in stats rather than footballing knowledge.

The Broncos had a great 2013; Manning's receivers and OL were integral to their success.
But in the SB, the receivers and OL got destroyed (to put it lightly). On the back of that, and coupled with his own mistakes, Manning had a terrible game.
Even with the record setting Manning; when the OL leaks and the receivers play like rookies, you are going to struggle.

Swap Brady and Manning and both QB's would have inherited each others stats.
Manning would have struggled and Brady would have been setting the new records on offence, and Monson's article doesn't get written.

Ultimately, I think that Sam Monson researched his stats. Saw an opportunity to get some media attention with a sensational article; and it's worked for him. But give it a week, and it's "who's Sam Morton".

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

one can't question Brady without their integrity being attacked

You didn't question. You only throw an insult at Tom in your comments, that's what drew a reaction.

JaMarcusHustle

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And I stand by the 'deer in the headlights' comment.
From my observations Brady has not been the same since that Superbowl, he has often looked like he cannot figure out how to get over defenses like he used to.

Forgive me then if I question the quality of your observations.

2010: 3900 yds, 36 TD, 9 Int (Only ever unanimous MVP in NFL history)
2011: 5235 yds, 39 TD, 12 Int
2012: 4827 yds, 34 TD, 8 Int
Sept 2010 - Sept 2013: 52 consecutive games with a TD pass, 2nd all time only to Drew Brees

I can take criticism of Brady pretty well. I'm a big fan of what he achieved last year, but I'm aware that statistically, it wasn't his best season. And while a large portion of the blame lies with the inexperience of his supporting cast, there were isolated incidents where he made mistakes. Everyone does.

But to take that viewpoint, and stretch it out over the past 6 years and say he's looked like a deer in headlights since 2007? You're pretty much digging a huge hole that will be very hard to climb out of with regards to what people think of your "observations" here over the next few months/years.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Interesting article here from the Boston Globe detailing how his 4th quarter heroics have dried up in the last few seasons
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/01/25/where-has-tom-brady-comeback-magic-gone/mHJWhTKMwacm11a4GlOmqI/story.html

This article does your argument more harm than good actually. This was before last season. Did you watch football last season? I find it hard to believe you did if you could post that article with a straight face. Did you see the Saints game? 1:13 left, no timeouts, needing a touchdown, throwing in a 4th down conversion? What about the Cleveland game? Needing 2 TDs with 2 minutes left and no timeouts? He went and added 5 4th quarter comeback victories to his CV last year, his most since 2003 and was voted by his peers at the end of the season to still be the most clutch QB in the league.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

I also take issue with your assertion that I did not come here with a 'humble attitude', all I did was post a link to an WEEI discussion with Monson, thinking that people may be interested in it, it was you and another posters who then attacked me for my 'deer in the headlights' line.

You posted an opinion with no reasoning or elaboration as to why you thought that. It was a ludicrous statement with no back up whatsoever. Were you interested in generating discussion, then you would have backed up your claim. But that was never your intention anyway.

As for the article itself, it's nothing special. But it does what it set out to do. As Tom Curran put it -

Take something widely accepted as fact, then find a set of statistics that reflect the opposite.
Then share your “EUREKA!” moment – found by looking through a context-free keyhole - with people who won’t wonder how the illusion was created.
The crowd goes, “Oooohhhh.” Then it shovels more Skittles into its gob.

eagle eye

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'll make a huge effort to back up my bs here just to get my foot in the door with a big rep. Oh I know I'll ask him a few questions about WEEI!
I'll stand by me 'deer in the headlights' comment for a while and hopefully it will be forgotten about.

Fixed your post.

This is how you are coming across to me. I still don't believe you listen to WEEI and I've been years on this forum and a lot longer following the NFL.

The big issue here is your 'deer in the headlights' comment. I suggested you come back on here with a humble attitude but you just want to dig a bigger hole for yourself. As you can see its not just me that thinks you are full of it.

Fyi I sat and drank coffee with Dan Patrick on more than one occasion in his studio when he was with WEEI. Do you know where the studio was back then?

TO.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You remind me of Fred Smerlas or Pete Sheppard, and a lot of other New England fans , one can't question Brady without their integrity being attacked

To be fair to you I am normally the first who questions people but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt considering your post wasn't all that bad. If you truly believe your opinion is the truth that is fine you are entitled to it but at least back it up in your first post. You would have saved half the nonsense that followed.

As for this comment above. It discredits your posting in my eyes. Any die hard fan no matter what team they follow will were slightly tinted glasses especially when you go against the grain with comments that knock what will be one of the all time greats in the game when he retires. It just happens that Pats are generally opinionated when it comes to their team and players especially the great ones.

Anyways im not going to knock the rest of your posting or discredit your knowledge because I simply don't care. Next time you are better off at least giving some info on the comment to engage in a better debate especially in a thread full of Pats fans.

Also to add walking into the Lions den with a big hunk of meat in your hand will get you attacked to be fair.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

To be fair to you I am normally the first who questions people but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt considering your post wasn't all that bad. If you truly believe your opinion is the truth that is fine you are entitled to it but at least back it up in your first post. You would have saved half the nonsense that followed.

As for this comment above. It discredits your posting in my eyes. Any die hard fan no matter what team they follow will were slightly tinted glasses especially when you go against the grain with comments that knock what will be one of the all time greats in the game when he retires. It just happens that Pats are generally opinionated when it comes to their team and players especially the great ones.

Anyways im not going to knock the rest of your posting or discredit your knowledge because I simply don't care. Next time you are better off at least giving some info on the comment to engage in a better debate especially in a thread full of Pats fans.

Also to add walking into the Lions den with a big hunk of meat in your hand will get you attacked to be fair.

Oh how the mighty have fallen!:D

I'd have lost money betting against you being the voice of reason.:D

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh how the mighty have fallen!:D

I'd have lost money betting against you being the voice of reason.:D

Too busy these days to argue stuff.

JaMarcusHustle

TO. wrote: »

Too busy these days to argue stuff.

Oh really? I'll see about that...

Wisconsin are shít!!!

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Too busy these days to argue stuff.

The lads seem to have it well covered. Pretty hectic for myself also at the moment and I'm missing all the fun.:(

TO.

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Oh really? I'll see about that...

Wisconsin are shít!!!

meh

j8wk2feszrnpao

Gronk is the first Patriot to appear in the Top 100 players listing, in at number 41.
Not bad considering he only played 7 games (6 starts).
He'd 39 receptions for 592yds (avg 15.2), averaged 84.6yds per game (10th best overall in the league), and 4TD's.

He is the sole elite receiver we have on offence, and this team will need a healthy Gronk in the playoffs to challenge for the SB.

Son Of A Vidic

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Gronk is the first Patriot to appear in the Top 100 players listing, in at number 41.
Not bad considering he only played 7 games (6 starts).
He'd 39 receptions for 592yds (avg 15.2), averaged 84.6yds per game (10th best overall in the league), and 4TD's.

He is the sole elite receiver we have on offence, and this team will need a healthy Gronk in the playoffs to challenge for the SB.

When he is fit, Gronk is unrivaled on the NFL. Fntastic hands and fantastic blocking he is truly elite and the only complete TE in the league. Last season we saw Graham and Thomas getting bullied of the field when playing the Seahawks. They just couldn't handle the physicality. Gronk thrives in such an environment and he'll just carry 4 guys down the field on his back if needed. The only downside and it's a huge downside, is the punishment he ships as he bulldozes down the field.

JaMarcusHustle

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

When he is fit, Gronk is unrivaled on the NFL. Fntastic hands and fantastic blocking he is truly elite and the only complete TE in the league. Last season we saw Graham and Thomas getting bullied of the field when playing the Seahawks. They just couldn't handle the physicality. Gronk thrives in such an environment and he'll just carry 4 guys down the field on his back if needed. The only downside and it's a huge downside, is the punishment he ships as he bulldozes down the field.

Maybe it's the drink talking, but I genuinely hate to see a talented career sidetracked by injuries, regardless of who they play for. Shudder the thought, but if Gronk was a Jet, I still wouldn't wish these injuries on him.

TO.

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Maybe it's the drink talking, but I genuinely hate to see a talented career sidetracked by injuries, regardless of who they play for. Shudder the thought, but if Gronk was a Jet, I still wouldn't wish these injuries on him.

I have the same view. I know we all make the jokes every now and again in the heat of the moment but there is nothing worse seeing guys careers hampered by injuries. As fans it also means we don't get to see certain exciting players live up to their full potential or explode in games due to these injuries.

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Maybe it's the drink talking, but I genuinely hate to see a talented career sidetracked by injuries, regardless of who they play for. Shudder the thought, but if Gronk was a Jet, I still wouldn't wish these injuries on him.

TO. wrote: »

I have the same view. I know we all make the jokes every now and again in the heat of the moment but there is nothing worse seeing guys careers hampered by injuries. As fans it also means we don't get to see certain exciting players live up to their full potential or explode in games due to these injuries.

In an ideal world every team would have a fully healthy roster and would be able to field its strongest team on game day. I think we all wish for that and yes for me too, that even applies to the Jets.

taidghbaby

Now might be a good time for the Patriots to ring the Texans! Andre Johnson is presumably a very unhappy camper right now!

BizzyC

I don't see that happening for cap reasons alone.

nerd69

at this stage of his career andre may be willing to take a pay cut to be on a genuine contender.

HigginsJ

nerd69 wrote: »

at this stage of his career andre may be willing to take a pay cut to be on a genuine contender.

Won't be joining the Patriots then!! :pac: