Buying a 17' Sailboat - Advice needed

murphym7

cfitz wrote: »

Just a quick question for anyone here with more experience than me. How easy is it to avoid a capsize in these large dinghies? Like Dr Pepper here, I like the idea of taking family and friends (non-sailors) out for an occasional relaxed sail. But in this scenario, a capsize would be fairly unthinkable. So, does this make a dinghy a bad choice? Or do both dinghies and keel boats present pretty similar risks?

Cheers

Check this site out for analysis of various crusining dingy's.

http://www.dca.uk.com/articles/whichdinghy.htm#wayfarer

ISAW

murphym7 wrote: »

Check this site out for analysis of various crusining dingy's.

http://www.dca.uk.com/articles/whichdinghy.htm#wayfarer

Im not good on dingys
What about a flying fifteen wayfairer or 420?


Hereis a coribbe hull boat:

http://www.apolloduck.ie/display.phtml?aid=182294

And Here is a boat in Rush which you might be near enough to look at
http://yachts.apolloduck.com/boats.phtml?id=2865

Or maybe ask then about dingies

Heres a wayfarer and trailer €850 on ads.ie

http://www.adverts.ie/boats-accessories/16ft-boat-dinghy-wayfarer-and-trailer/313628

ISAW

murphym7 wrote: »

Check this site out for analysis of various crusining dingy's.

http://www.dca.uk.com/articles/whichdinghy.htm#wayfarer

Here's a thread relating to the Howth Puppeteer 22 fleet:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58222809

noby

Coming late into this thread, but I owned a Shipmate Senior up to a couple of years ago.
A couple of points: Yes it is closer to a dinghy than a cruiser so much more suited to day trips/ pottering about than cruising up and down the coast.
The UK owners club is very active, and there is a lot of info available if you become a member (nominal fee).
It's a great first-time boat - safe and easy to sail (in the right conditions).

As for the pros and cons of a cabin:

Dr Pepper wrote: »

- In my mind, it takes up an awful lot of the limited space on a boat that size, i.e. sitting space.

Considering the size of the boat, it has a decent sized cockpit, even with the cabin (There is a day sailer version, with a bigger cockpit, and smaller cabin, but I often went sailing with one or two adults in relative comfort).

Dr Pepper wrote: »

- Makes it quite awkward to get down to the bow to free up a stuck gib, lower anchor, pick up a mooring, etc. There doesn't seem to be any kind of flat step along the sides of the cabin to put a foot so I think you'd be crawling on you belly while moving forward/aft while at sea (holding on for dear life!).

The best, and easiest way to go forward is through the cabin and out the hatch (by that I mean standing in the cabin, not climbing out onto the small bow). I did a fair bit of single-handed sailing on mine and was able to moor, anchor, sort out head sails etc. through the forward hatch.

Due to a combination of an available mooring and a knackered trailer I moored more than trailer-sailed, but you would have the mast down, even single-handed in no time at all (the boom comes off anyway) and a trailer with a winch would get it up in no time.

noby

lutra

I agree with all the advice given above. I had a L17 about 12 years ago and it was a joy to sail. Very easy for the single hander. One bit of advice I would give: before buying get a survey done by an accredited marine surveyor. It might coat about 200 -300 but its well worth it.
All the best with the search.

pedroeibar1

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Hi,

I'm getting a small sailboat in the near future and I'm trying to decide what to go for. Here are some of my main requirements:
- I want a boat that I can keep on a trailer and launch/retrieve same day ('trailer sailor' I think is the term). I don't want the hassle & expense of keeping the boat permanently in the water and I want to be able to drive to different lakes & coastal locations for day-trip sailing.
- A good stable boat that's unlikely to capsize in rough seas/winds.
- I tend to plan 'expeditions' when sailing instead of just hanging around near one port. I'd like to travel up/down the coast a little bit and I'd like a boat that's capable/reliable in the open sea.
- Low maintenance! The less gadgets and equipments, the better in some ways (toilets, stoves, fridges are not needed right now) but I would like to be able to sleep on board occasionally.
- Budget is probably a little over 2,000 which seems to be enough for what I'm looking at.
Plus, I've only got a 1.6L petrol VW Passat so is this boat feasible at all?

.......
..... - How common are capsizes on these types of boat? How hard is it to right a boat like these at sea? If righted, is it going to end up being swamped with water?

............

Also coming late to this thread.
I’m being a little ‘direct’ but from what you’ve written I believe that you have not fully thought this through. Maintenance costs do not arise from cookers, toilets or fridges, the latter two of which usually are not found on 17/18 ft. boats. On boats that size, excluding mooring fees, the cost is insurance and wear&tear, the latter IMO is increased by trailer sailing.

Trailer-sailing is fine but it takes time. You leave Dublin for the Shannon, get the boat ready for launch, rig mast, bend on sails, etc, and it is lunchtime. You say you plan on making ‘expeditions’ up & down the coast. That suggests a roller-reefing headsail would be best, but that adds to the weight of the mast. Putting up the mast on any 17-20 footer is a job for at least 2 people and is not easy, particularly getting the rigging tensions correct. Get them wrong and you probably lose your mast. Then you sail for a couple of hours and it is time to return and do everything in reverse. Much more time faffing around onshore, less time on the water.

The top speed of all displacement yachts is governed by their waterline length, so a top speed of about 4 knots is about ‘it’ for any 17. A bilge keel boat (much easier for trailing & launching) has the drawback of poor windward performance – both pointing and leeway - so a long beat will be a PITA. If you sail to Wicklow, what do you do with the boat when you get there? Take the bus to Dublin and return with car & trailer? Forget sailing back if the tide is not in your favour... There are not many places to go on the east coast north/south of Dublin, so I assume that you will head to inland waters. A new trailer for a 17-20 foot boat costs the amount of your budget, so it follows that whatever trailer comes with any boat you buy will not be best for long-haul towing. How good are you at reversing down a narrow slipway?

Keelboats don't capsize, they lean over and then come up into the wind.

And, FWIW, the boat you have already ruled out, the Leisure 17 is the best from a sea-worthiness perspective and would be my choice. It weighs about 650kgs, would easily be towed by your Passat and ticks your boxes. One from Dun Laoghaire regularly went to the IoM and Holyhead, ask about them from the owner's association.

P.

Cork Boy

This is a terrific thread!

Ok, so my story is having grew up next to the river, I always loved the water and we plagued the local creamery stealing pallets to build rafts with Also, being from west cork I am crazy about the sea and ever since I was a kid I always wanted a boat.

Now, just passed my mid twenties and having forgot all about my childhood dreams it all came flooding back to me on a recent trip home!

I have no sailing experience whatsoever so of course before I'd even think of buying a boat I'll have to do some courses/lessons and make sure it really is something I want to do.

But from what I can gather from previous posts I'd be a trailer sailor looking for a Leisure 17 or an Etap 22. The link about the pro's and con's of trailering was excellent.

So, do people think either of these boats would be suitable for:

1. Sailing from Kinsale to Dingle and everywhere in between.
2. Sleeping overnight with one other aboard.
3. Anchoring overnight or beaching

Also, if anyone has any tips on any good sailing schools/clubs (non snobby ones if they exist please!) in either Cork or LimericknI'd be very grateful!

Cheers folks

Edit: After further research the westerly cirrus seems to be a lovely boat, would 22ft be small enough for a novice?

Dr Pepper

Hi Cork Boy,

Glad you're taking an interest in sailing. I picked it up 5/6 years ago at a similar late-ish age and it's changed my life. IMO, you'd be better off doing a few dinghy courses first to get even the basics of sailing under your belt before taking on a bigger sailboat (most clubs/schools use dinghies like the Laser Pico or Topper Topaz). You'd probably get away without buying a dinghy yourself if you wanted to. A lot of clubs have training days once a week where you can come along and use the club/school boats for a small fee (with rescue boat support and some helpful tuition). The ISA courses (level 1, 2 and 3) are a good place to start for formal dinghy training. They generally take 2-3 days each and cost about €200-250 each.

If you want to skip dinghy sailing and go straight to the bigger boats, 'crewing' is your best option. This is where you join a club (not always necessary) and help out as a junior crew member on a crew of 3-6 in regular club races. You should try and get some sort of introductory course done before you volunteer your services for crewing (although most club skippers are happy to help out volunteers of any skill level). Most clubs have casual club racing one evening a week and once over the weekend at this time of year. It's always very informal, friendly and great fun (never snobby or too serious in my experience). You can check club websites for a 'crew finder' section or similar and sign yourself up. Otherwise, just go down to your local club on the night and don't be shy about chatting to people! There are always skippers short-handed at these things.

I'm not normally one to discourage the jump-in-and-do-it attitude in any sport/field but in the case of sailing I think you should be prepared to take your time and enjoy the experience gained gradually over several years. Even if you do a course or two, buying a 17-22 ft boat and skippering it yourself from the beginning is highly dangerous in my opinion. My sister and I almost drowned off Mizen Head, Arklow last Summer so I'm telling you this from experience - and that was on a relatively good, sunny day. The sea can make life very difficult for you in a very short space of time (especially in your part of the country) so please take your time and enjoy!

Don't know about clubs in West Cork specifically.

Best of luck,
Brian

Cork Boy

Thanks very much Brian.

I'll be joining the UL Sailing Club on Lough Derg next year so that should get me levels 1&2. I'm well aware of the dangers of water though so will definately not be doing anything beyond my comfort levels (i.e., until i can wear the boat like a glove). It's one thing putting yourself at risk but to put any potential passengers and other seafarers at risk is completely unacceptable.

Realistically I couldn't see myself buying my westerly 22 for 2-3 years at least.

Cheers again!